PvP Discussion: Game Modes

[Tiefsee.3647]

Since we can go into the open world and que on a random map, how about an option "i don't mind for a longer que" i am sure, you can use players like that in the system

[Trigr.6481]

> @"Sinid.7460" said:

> > @Vagrant.7206 said:

> > Poor matchmaking + Lack of game mode diversity = Continually dropping player population

> > Continually dropping player population = No game mode diversity

> >

> > Cue vicious downward cycle.

> >

> > I don't get it -- conquest is boring. Almost everybody who has left PvP says this. Conquest is boring and stale. That's why a lot of people left in the first place. Splitting the population is risky? You haven't taken enough risk, and it has resulted in this low population.

> >

> > We've literally had conquest since day one. We've had stronghold for maybe one season, and a poorly implemented deathmatch before that. If the player population has been dropping, what has been the common factor? Conquest. For the love of god, introduce new game modes to spice it up.

>

> How is conquest boring and stale? Stronghold appeared and it was never popular. At all. Same with deathmatch, I believe most people disliked that one as well. Fun modes for sure, every now and then. But people saying that conquest is boring and stale blows my mind because it's the only mode that doesn't promote zerging....

 

Half finished projects don't count when it comes to whether or not it was a success or failure, it never had the opportunity, the courtyard map falls into this category. In relation to conquest, it's pure opinion, conquest might have been decent back when you could que with a team in a competitive setting whenever you wanted, but the game killed that when they made the decision to please the vocal minority, so yeah, I find that to be boring and stale as well. Making a game mode with less people per team "3 for example" would not only make it easier for people to form teams, but it would add new variety, which this game sorely needs.

[Meteor.3720]

A proper 2v2 and 3v3 gamemode sounds great, but I would wonder how scoring would work?

If it used the same "first to 500, 15 minute max" scoring, I imagine most games would drag out and take quite a while.

I'd be in favour of more frequent but shorter games, either based on a lower score requirement, a shorter time limit, or a simpler mechanic (TDM for example)

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Lets do a alternate reality thing here. If Guild wars 1 had the best pvp out there for its time and even past that. Then you have guild wars 2 with horrendous uncompetitive circle dancing that has no chance at a competitive future since one class controls the whole game mode since day 1.

 

Let's say the horrible decision to go with circle dancing pvp was not made, and PvP was legit TDM pvp like gw1. Wouldn't it just be better?

 

No "Who has home mid blah blah.." I't just "hey kill this person" or " Kite this one over"

 

There is no reason to zerg middle while 1 thief runs around to decap. The game mode wouldn't be based of who has the faster toons and might actually be based off skill. If only the decision to change to circle dancing was never made. We would not be in the situation we are now because pvp would just work like gw1.

[Bossun.2046]

5men capping home at start new meta inc

[BrokenGlass.9356]

So we have some common ideas in this thread.

 

It looks like we can all agree that 3v3 is a great idea, and 2v2, while interesting, will be unbalanced.

 

The majority of us want to be able to queue with our friends. So... Sorry vocal minority, but you guys are gonna have to take one for the team. (and really, when you encounter a pre-made as a solo queue... It's just a matter of "oh... All the same guild tag. Ok, I expect to loose, this is a training match." and is that so bad? Only if it's every match all night. And it never was even at the height of pre-made grouping.)

 

15v15 seems to excite everyone. And it sounds fun. But it's not spvp. This sounds like a game mode that is more connected to wvw than spvp. If you introduce this mode, I probably won't play it. Too much chaos. Same reason I don't play wvw.

 

Deathmatch mode. Folks seem to keep suggesting this in connection with the 3v3 mode. I feel that 5v5 Deathmatch would be great. No teams, personal achievements only.

 

I'm glad that the devs are asking... But I just don't buy the "too much risk" argument. You're trying to resurrect a dying game mode. Whatever you do has to be risky. And it has to be big.

 

Build it and they will come.

[Pimsley.3681]

Can we have an open Courtyard map? Even if it’s in one of the hotjoin servers.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @Deth.1698 said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > > @Placentlad.9742 said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > **The main issue currently IMO is the decreasing PVP population due to the recent ranked queue changes**. Probably the easiest and least difficult solution to this will be using the old ranked queue system during vanilla GW2 which was ranked team queue: 1-5 players & Solo and/or duo ranked queue.

> > > > i think this will cover most of the pvp players concerns with not wanting to play into a premade when soloing, and also not been able to playing with friends in a competitive environment as the ranked queue is currently solo/duo ONLY ( **this is probably the main reason of the recent pvp population decrease**).

> > > >

> > >

> > > The problem with splitting the queue is that our data doesn't show that 2 separate queues for ranked would work. To put things in perspective, 92% someone queues it's queuing solo. The team queue would have horrendous wait times. And when a match finally popped, difference in team skill would likely be rage inducing.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > is this 92% of all queues or ranked only?

>

> Ranked. Unranked is 84% solo.

 

cant you see the failure . guildwars become solowars.

 

you should focus more on guilds and teams. support them. invest in ppl, teams and guilds who support new players. invest in ingame comms, better UI like health bars above players head etc...

[masskillerxploit.2165]

2v2 and 3v3 rated arenas.

[Niokoles.9362]

Pls add a 1v1 ranked arena. In my opinion 1v1 is the most honorable gamemode. Beeing the nr.1 on a 250 Leaderbord for 1v1 duelling would be so prestigious. 1v1 is the perfect gamemode for low a low population. I think it also be a great gamemode for content creation on youtube or Twitch. For example there could be best of videos where you beat up famous 1v1 player. It would also be an opportunity to create a hype around new famous players and maybe even attract people who usually prefare other gamemodes like wvw for duelling. Please make ranked duelling a thing, it is the verry basic pvp mode and I do think every MMORPG, Moba or shooter does need it.

 

Make 1v1 a thing and make pvp hype a thing.

[MADPIEMAN.8023]

Maybe release new gamemodes as betas with their own que which, even if temporary, would help increase the population of the gamemode. I think it will be important to put any new games modes into unranked rather than custom arenas as people are more likely to play the mode and give feedback - games would also be more balanced than in custom arenas.

 

I understand that you don't want to split the playerbase but ideally having more than one gamemode for ranked would be great. For example having 2 ranked modes: one that is more strategy/objective based like conquest, strongold, capture the flag, payload, and another than is some form of arena that focused 100% on combat such as 2v2/3v3 arenas. A 15v15 gamemode would also be cool, with other objectives - as long as these aren't too NPC based like current stronghold.

 

Allthough I don't GvG myself a 15v15 gamemode with just a open map for GvG would be much appreciated for that community. If possible add some slight tweaks that would allow rules to be changed to make balance/gear more like WvW.

 

Allthough you have been very late with doing this, I do really really appreciate you opening up dialoges like this no matter what gamemode it is! The discussion has been very open so far so keep up the good work :)

[MADPIEMAN.8023]

> @"Niokoles.9362" said:

> Pls add a 1v1 ranked arena. In my opinion 1v1 is the most honorable gamemode. Beeing the nr.1 on a 250 Leaderbord for 1v1 duelling would be so prestigious. 1v1 is the perfect gamemode for low a low population. I think it also be a great gamemode for content creation on youtube or Twitch. For example there could be best of videos where you beat up famous 1v1 player. It would also be an opportunity to create a hype around new famous players and maybe even attract people who usually prefare other gamemodes like wvw for duelling. Please make ranked duelling a thing, it is the verry basic pvp mode and I do think every MMORPG, Moba or shooter does need it.

>

> Make 1v1 a thing and make pvp hype a thing.

 

Not sure this would work. The game isn't really balanced around 1v1

 

 

[MADPIEMAN.8023]

> @"BrokenGlass.9356" said:

> So we have some common ideas in this thread.

>

> It looks like we can all agree that 3v3 is a great idea, and 2v2, while interesting, will be unbalanced.

>

> The majority of us want to be able to queue with our friends. So... Sorry vocal minority, but you guys are gonna have to take one for the team. (and really, when you encounter a pre-made as a solo queue... It's just a matter of "oh... All the same guild tag. Ok, I expect to loose, this is a training match." and is that so bad? Only if it's every match all night. And it never was even at the height of pre-made grouping.)

>

> 15v15 seems to excite everyone. And it sounds fun. But it's not spvp. This sounds like a game mode that is more connected to wvw than spvp. If you introduce this mode, I probably won't play it. Too much chaos. Same reason I don't play wvw.

>

> Deathmatch mode. Folks seem to keep suggesting this in connection with the 3v3 mode. I feel that 5v5 Deathmatch would be great. No teams, personal achievements only.

>

> I'm glad that the devs are asking... But I just don't buy the "too much risk" argument. You're trying to resurrect a dying game mode. Whatever you do has to be risky. And it has to be big.

>

> Build it and they will come.

I think a dev said that 80% plus play solo so you are no the majority.

 

[MailMail.6534]

I support the direction you're going on. HOWEVER!

 

**My biggest concern is the infrequency of balance updates**. Judging from the most recent AMA, you don't plan on increasing balances patches past quarterly updates which I respectfully disagree with. That being said, introducing new game modes will mean receiving criticism on the balancing of that supported game mode. If players aren't satisfied with the current balancing, how do you plan on improving the balance for more game modes? Will these new game modes get the WvW roaming balance treatment and just not exist? OR since this is actually a supported game mode, will devs actually put effort into balancing them?

[Niokoles.9362]

> @"MADPIEMAN.8023" said:

> > @"Niokoles.9362" said:

> > Pls add a 1v1 ranked arena. In my opinion 1v1 is the most honorable gamemode. Beeing the nr.1 on a 250 Leaderbord for 1v1 duelling would be so prestigious. 1v1 is the perfect gamemode for low a low population. I think it also be a great gamemode for content creation on youtube or Twitch. For example there could be best of videos where you beat up famous 1v1 player. It would also be an opportunity to create a hype around new famous players and maybe even attract people who usually prefare other gamemodes like wvw for duelling. Please make ranked duelling a thing, it is the verry basic pvp mode and I do think every MMORPG, Moba or shooter does need it.

> >

> > Make 1v1 a thing and make pvp hype a thing.

>

> Not sure this would work. The game isn't really balanced around 1v1

>

>

 

I dont think the game is really balanced in any gamemode. Also there is a long tradition with 1v1 in Guild Wars 2. There even was a ESL 1v1 Contest every once in a while.

So if it worked for ESL I think it can not be to bad lul.

[SuB.6845]

I suggest a 9v9, all classes required Tournament.

Although it would probably require bigger maps (maybe 4 Points + secondary mechanic?), this would be great for the PvP Community (more Players required -> more interesting for guilds & wvw/pve-players , and less focus on single "op-classes/builds"), and also a great chance for comparing (I actually mean _balancing_) classes & traits.

[xp eke xp.6724]

Hello, here my wishes that dont need much changes, but will help out a lidle:

1) we need a trainingsareal, where noone can disturb and you can prove somethings allone. Same like on PvE, maybe with more features, like you can choose how hard an npc is (like a warrior npc on easy that use only 3 skills on mid 7 and on hard all) or a kitting area.

2) what about reach the teamlimit to 3? It´s like the same we allready have with 2 players going together, just that it trains our comunity to run more in teams instead of solo-runs cause they will have much more trouble. Now maybe we can say that 3 guys can easyer reporttrolling, but there is an easyer Solution: do the 5v5 maps to 6v6 so we have max 50% players each side that can troll coordinated. At all i thought a long time about it and liked the idea of 2 players limit, but then i realised that most players don´t duo. Cause atm it´s easy to play bad and get high rated, but with that we force all players to get bether: the solo players need more skills to get high, the duo teams still not in a bad position and the trio teams learn more about maprotation and teamsupport only cause at all the solo players are forced to be bether and this circles the playerskills up. Oh and maybe it helps more players to find guilds/teams for the atm higherskillbased pvp: the Tourments.

 

At all i think thats not much time you need to create this and it will need less time then creating a new map (ok if you want to invest more time in it ofc it can be on the same lvl) :)

 

On the idea to create maps with more players, imo it´s a lidle too early. On the other side i wanted to see that some Builds are stronger then others on diferent maps, this helps out to be more flexible and pay more attention to different mechanics you created. Cause only a small part of players know whats behind them^^.

 

Thats it, i trust you guys on the map-designs and much more points, cause i see how fast you evolve with the game, go on and surprise us again.

[Lihvar.7045]

Here is a suggestion for some game modes, 2v2 and 3v3 arenas, current GW2 now has good heal/support classes that core GW2 didn't.

 

15v15 (GvG) but I would really love to see this in a guild menu, as Guild War section, where a guild declares war to another guild(could even add that each guild puts material/gold as a stake, winner takes it all, I imagine forums/reddit blowing up about this :smiley: ). EDIT: Also, since you said you don't plan to add any new game modes with Queue, I think this would actually be ideal! It could use a system, where guilds agree upon a certain time when to fight(eg. Saturday 20/01/18, 05:00pm), and if one of the guilds doesn't show up, they are declared losers.

 

The good ol' CTF(Capture the Flag) the good thing about this is you could use already existing maps, best example of this would be Legacy of the Foefire, where you could just replace lords with flags. THIS MODE WOULD ACTUALLY BRING THE FULL POTENTIAL OF PVP, it would require a support class to defend the flag carrier, there would be a lot more focus on killing and not running around capturing boring points(I do find it extremely boring, especially when playing on my second account which is silver and people have no idea how to rotate), which means that it would kill the boring map rotation, which is a good thing, since a lot of new players really find it difficult to understand when and where to go. Here you have a flag, capture it, defend the carrier, kill enemy players if they are in the way, and defend your own flag, simple(er than point capping) :smiley: you could also add some power-up spawns across the map, like 5sec long block or 3 stacks of Aegis(could be made possible just for this mode) or a 10 stacks of Might power up. Just trying to give you examples to show you this could have potential. You could even make it 5v5, 10v10, or 15v15 (but 15v15 as a sub-section in Guild wars tab)

[choovanski.5462]

after the firebrand buffs I retract all of my statements in favour of 2v2

 

merciful intervention is going to ruin that gamemode. until that is addressed, 2v2 is absolutely pointless

[Darek.1836]

> @"choovanski.5462" said:

> after the firebrand buffs I retract all of my statements in favour of 2v2

>

> merciful intervention is going to ruin that gamemode. until that is addressed, 2v2 is absolutely pointless

 

lol theres always going to be a busted cheese skill in 2v2s. to think otherwise is just so delusional. it is impossible to actually balance this game around 2v2s.

[choovanski.5462]

> @"Darek.1836" said:

> > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > after the firebrand buffs I retract all of my statements in favour of 2v2

> >

> > merciful intervention is going to ruin that gamemode. until that is addressed, 2v2 is absolutely pointless

>

> lol theres always going to be a busted cheese skill in 2v2s. to think otherwise is just so delusional. it is impossible to actually balance this game around 2v2s.

 

yeah,

 

but a support build with an instant res ability that is also a heal (6k w healing power) and a blink is just too ridiculous. it's like when the infuse light trait applied to the downed player, but even worse for 2v2. a free res every 32 seconds is a terrible mechanic

 

if 2v2 ever happens, and merciful is still like it is now- a FB will be compulsory in every comp, and the resses will ruin the fights from the get go

 

there is bad balance, then there is the new merciful intervention- which is next level bad balance

[AJaZe.2943]

Being a little out of the scene at the moment but I have played WvW/GvG for the entirety of the game (since launch) venturing into PvP and PvE when not GvG'ing. I only play this game with my guild Anguish [Ash]. Some of you may know us but we are currently on break/disbanded but a 15 vs 15 mode will bring us back. From my point of view, instancing Obsidian Sanctum could be an easier option than making a new map/editing existing ones. The changes you would need to make are;

* Forcing players into set spots before the round - Add a count down after all players Ready up and force in spot

* Adding the barrier from guild hall arena to the edge of OS

* Add UI - Team selection with spectating viable and team changing (limitations included ofc (can't swap mid round(Maybe a team has to /gg to concede or full eliminate enemy team))

* Make sure its WvW style stats (Retaliation, I'm looking at you!)

 

Probably easier said than done but it means, guilds get the area they want, others can spectate without interruption, players can still do the JP if they want. Depend how much work you do/don't want to do. Maybe just instance a cookie cut version of Obsidian Sanctum, just the arena part... Food for thought.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"MailMail.6534" said:

> I support the direction you're going on. HOWEVER!

>

> **My biggest concern is the infrequency of balance updates**. Judging from the most recent AMA, you don't plan on increasing balances patches past quarterly updates which I respectfully disagree with. That being said, introducing new game modes will mean receiving criticism on the balancing of that supported game mode. If players aren't satisfied with the current balancing, how do you plan on improving the balance for more game modes? Will these new game modes get the WvW roaming balance treatment and just not exist? OR since this is actually a supported game mode, will devs actually put effort into balancing them?

 

totally agree with this. The **ONLY** way you will ever be able to effectively balance is with frequent balance updates. Put it this way if you had a bug that was affecting gameplay every day you would (or should) be hotfixing asap. Balancing issues in a pvp/pve is the same problem.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

I can play stronghold all day because it's more strategy based then dancing in and around circles all game and it's not based on who has the fastest players. Tho just like conquest I'm getting bored of stronghold. I haven't touched conq much in at least 3 years compared to paying many conq matches a day..

 

We need new game modes! TDM is a option that can be used in any current map. We need to move away from speed based pvp to actual competitive pvp like guild wars 1.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"

Hey, well tanks for this opportunity to talk about the future of SPVP .

I believe that sPVP isn't feeling good right now due the frustration of the player base about many things like some broken builds, decrease of the player base and unbalanced teams (legendary player can play with gold player in the same team !!!) and more.

so what i think that you should do is to merge the NA and EU PVP players by letting NA sPVP players play in EU servers the population gonna be increased and more options gonna show up, that's the first step .

second step, is to make a separated sPVP client for easy access for the fans of sPVP worldwide ,with a low storage demand 7gb max and by a good marketing for it. GW2 would change forever. and i already mad a post about this https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/312390#Comment_312390 but in the same time keep the normal GW2 client .

After those steps the player base gonna increase a lot and base on that making 2v2 or 3v3 or XvX won't affect the ranked experience,but in the current situation i don't think that it will work without consequences . 1v1 tho is highly recommended and i guess its balanced in a way more than any other game mods.

PS:If the idea of the separated sPVP client is a possible option in the future; a discussion about this from you to see the community feedback would be great,tanks.