Mesmer, Distortion, good job anet....

[Coulter.2315]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > @"Coulter.2315" said:

> > > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > > > @"Coulter.2315" said:

> > > > This change is probably for the best, it gives more design space for Anet. They could never make a mechanic like VG green ever again and were required to make Deimos's nuke avoid invuln, it is far more sensible to drop the AoE invuln than keep limping on with these "fixes."

> > > >

> > > > I agree it was skill and knowledge intensive but removing it opens up more room for future mechanics in raids.

> > >

> > > Why not just make some raid mechanics go through distortion instead of getting rid of class identity.

> > > Unless distortion is weirdly coded where it cannot be done i see no issue in doing that.

> >

> > Invuln is rarer than block/dodge, so if you want to allow mechanic avoidance it is safer to keep it on invuln. With invuln being localised to just the Mesmer this still allows space for invuln to be an avoidance Anet can play with, without it over powering all the mechanics for everyone. You're essentially asking for invuln to do nothing important just so you can keep applying it to 5 people, now I think this change is bad for PvP/WvW but in PvE I think it is reasonable.

>

> Your arguing for invul to be useless, i simply said if its true that its to balance around raid mechanics, in said raid make it go through distortion, there are other game modes that use that skill punishing the other 2 for something as small as a raid mechanic or two can easily be isolated in raids. Please do not infer extra things that i haven;t stated.

 

You were asking for distortion not to stop raid mechanics. I think this is a good change for PvE and should be split from PvP/WvW.

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

Balance feedback for mesmers belongs in the mesmer profession forum.

[Hesacon.8735]

So wait, the trait accomplishes exactly the same niche and people are mad because it makes the class accessible to more players?

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> Balance feedback for mesmers belongs in the mesmer profession forum.

 

Yeah I think you're wrong, removing distortion share belongs just as much in the raids forums because it doesn't only affect mesmers. Because this is a change that has a lot of impact on raiding and fractals I think it's fine to talk about it here. If you want to tuck it away though I can't stop you :sweat:

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> So wait, the trait accomplishes exactly the same niche and people are mad because it makes the class accessible to more players?

 

Well it doesn't fill the same niche, distortion and aegis are very different.

[Genesis.5169]

> @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> So wait, the trait accomplishes exactly the same niche and people are mad because it makes the class accessible to more players?

 

But it doesn't and opening it up to people who were terrible at chrono before isn't going to make them any less terrible.

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

> @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > Balance feedback for mesmers belongs in the mesmer profession forum.

>

> Yeah I think you're wrong, removing distortion share belongs just as much in the raids forums because it doesn't only affect mesmers. Because this is a change that has a lot of impact on raiding and fractals I think it's fine to talk about it here. If you want to tuck it away though I can't stop you :sweat:

 

You could say that about all kinds of balance changes though. That's what those forums are for. You can totally make a thread about the support role of mesmers in raids in that forum.

 

Edit: thinking more I see your point, as long as it stays content relavent I guess, but keep in mind the balance devs focus on those forums more than they do these for profession specific feedback.

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > > Balance feedback for mesmers belongs in the mesmer profession forum.

> >

> > Yeah I think you're wrong, removing distortion share belongs just as much in the raids forums because it doesn't only affect mesmers. Because this is a change that has a lot of impact on raiding and fractals I think it's fine to talk about it here. If you want to tuck it away though I can't stop you :sweat:

>

> You could say that about all kinds of balance changes though. That's what those forums are for. You can totally make a thread about the support role of mesmers in raids in that forum.

 

I agree, but the op did very specifically start this thread in relation to fractals and raiding.

 

> @"Kenny.5826" said:

> **Inspiring Distortion: This trait now grants 5 seconds of aegis instead of 1 second of distortion**

>

> First of all. Are you serious? You have any idea how much time chronos have put in to master their class? to be able to distort greens perfectly, distort gors slams, kc slams, xera laser, deimos slam, 99 mama/siax/last boss. 100 CM 1st boss, 2nd boss,3rd boss.

 

Likewise you could also say that about any thread that mentions a specific class like "how do I counter spellbreaker in pvp?" but those kinds stay in the PVP forums?

 

I guess you could draw a line somewhere, but I feel like the topic of the thread relating to the change should be more important. For example if they asked "should I still take inspiration now?" That would be a topic focused on the mesmer class itself.

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> Edit: thinking more I see your point, as long as it stays content relavent I guess, but keep in mind the balance devs focus on those forums more than they do these for profession specific feedback.

 

Np, dw I think there wil, be plenty of ranting in that thread too :tongue:

[Ubi.4136]

I think OP needs to look at this change and the server hosting change together. Amazons servers suck. Ping is higher, lag spikes are frequent and long. All the trace routes show the problem is with Amazon, not our individual ISP's. So, what we now have is a trait that elimintes some of the "perfect timing" required to offset the server hosting choice they made. This is a good way to do that in my opinion.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > > Balance feedback for mesmers belongs in the mesmer profession forum.

> >

> > Yeah I think you're wrong, removing distortion share belongs just as much in the raids forums because it doesn't only affect mesmers. Because this is a change that has a lot of impact on raiding and fractals I think it's fine to talk about it here. If you want to tuck it away though I can't stop you :sweat:

>

> You could say that about all kinds of balance changes though. That's what those forums are for. You can totally make a thread about the support role of mesmers in raids in that forum.

>

> Edit: thinking more I see your point, as long as it stays content relavent I guess, but keep in mind the balance devs focus on those forums more than they do these for profession specific feedback.

 

While I understand your edit and that this is, technically, a mesmer specific balance discussion, I think its more fitting to be in this forum than the mesmer one. While it is a unique (or was I guess) mesmer ability to share invuln like that, it went beyond just mesmer. High end raiding groups ran with the assumption that the chronos would be sharing distortion, and were built around that.It affects everyone in the raid group, lowers overall group DPS since they now have to dodge and can't ignore mechanics in teh fights anymore.

[thrag.9740]

I think it was stupid that distortion had so much more potential than aegis and barrier. I.e distortion could block an unlimited amount of damage for 1 second. In theory aegis was less difficult to time, due to its duration (will dispute this below).

 

I think standardizing mesmer and guard defensive powers is better for the long term health of the game. But I also think aegis is poorly designed in pve. In pve there are typically a few major attacks you want to avoid, among a sea of small attacks from trash/damage auras/aoes etc. It often makes aegis unreliable. An example of this was early deimos cm, where tears would strip the aegis you needed to survive the bubble attack.

 

Not to mention large attacks that require multiple blocks on their own. For example, while doing sammy cm, your chronos are typically responsible for giving stability to the targets of the spear mechanic. When I was doing this, it was also common to need to provide an emergency distortion too for swipes. However, the swipe attack has 2 hits, distortion could handle that, aegis could not.

 

Another example would be providing an emergency distort at sabetha because sticky bombs were not being ran out, now, a single shot from any trash mob can strip that aegis.

 

It doesn't seem possible to use aegis as reliably as distortion was used. My opinion is that in pve, after its initial block aegis should provide 1 second of invulnerability/distortion. Or maybe they are trying to fill this role with barrier, if they are, they are very uninformed about their game. Absorbing damage from an attack into barrier, is very different from blocking it. Barrier wont stop knockbacks at samorag, wont stop grubs at lupi ;), wont protect you from bubble at deimos, etc.

[Talindra.4958]

i deleted my comment. :P i think its irrelevant sorry lol

[musu.9205]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> I think it was stupid that distortion had so much more potential than aegis and barrier. I.e distortion could block an unlimited amount of damage for 1 second. In theory aegis was less difficult to time, due to its duration (will dispute this below).

>

> I think standardizing mesmer and guard defensive powers is better for the long term health of the game. But I also think aegis is poorly designed in pve. In pve there are typically a few major attacks you want to avoid, among a sea of small attacks from trash/damage auras/aoes etc. It often makes aegis unreliable. An example of this was early deimos cm, where tears would strip the aegis you needed to survive the bubble attack.

>

> Not to mention large attacks that require multiple blocks on their own. For example, while doing sammy cm, your chronos are typically responsible for giving stability to the targets of the spear mechanic. When I was doing this, it was also common to need to provide an emergency distortion too for swipes. However, the swipe attack has 2 hits, distortion could handle that, aegis could not.

>

> Another example would be providing an emergency distort at sabetha because sticky bombs were not being ran out, now, a single shot from any trash mob can strip that aegis.

>

> It doesn't seem possible to use aegis as reliably as distortion was used. My opinion is that in pve, after its initial block aegis should provide 1 second of invulnerability/distortion. Or maybe they are trying to fill this role with barrier, if they are, they are very uninformed about their game. Absorbing damage from an attack into barrier, is very different from blocking it. Barrier wont stop knockbacks at samorag, wont stop grubs at lupi ;), wont protect you from bubble at deimos, etc.

 

standardizing mesmer and guard defensive powers is better

 

it is better if this is actually standardizing .

but come on when firebrand has so many aegis on 600 range with short cd and none of them has stupid 5s icd and most of aegis spell from guard are instantly (you can reapply as fast as you want ), chrono has to invest to 2 trait lines 1 gm trait , 1 master trait and use cs and alacrity to make best use of distortion share on top of well timed cast (they have 1s cast time ). now all of those for 5s aegis with 300 range and 5s icd .

 

yeah it's totally equal .

 

and your idea distortion after aegis . i like how guard main : distortion share was op and broken , but let's give guard something so they can pretty much invuln entire fight without any thought . sure lets do it .

[Zlater.6789]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > I think it was stupid that distortion had so much more potential than aegis and barrier. I.e distortion could block an unlimited amount of damage for 1 second. In theory aegis was less difficult to time, due to its duration (will dispute this below).

> >

> > I think standardizing mesmer and guard defensive powers is better for the long term health of the game. But I also think aegis is poorly designed in pve. In pve there are typically a few major attacks you want to avoid, among a sea of small attacks from trash/damage auras/aoes etc. It often makes aegis unreliable. An example of this was early deimos cm, where tears would strip the aegis you needed to survive the bubble attack.

> >

> > Not to mention large attacks that require multiple blocks on their own. For example, while doing sammy cm, your chronos are typically responsible for giving stability to the targets of the spear mechanic. When I was doing this, it was also common to need to provide an emergency distortion too for swipes. However, the swipe attack has 2 hits, distortion could handle that, aegis could not.

> >

> > Another example would be providing an emergency distort at sabetha because sticky bombs were not being ran out, now, a single shot from any trash mob can strip that aegis.

> >

> > It doesn't seem possible to use aegis as reliably as distortion was used. My opinion is that in pve, after its initial block aegis should provide 1 second of invulnerability/distortion. Or maybe they are trying to fill this role with barrier, if they are, they are very uninformed about their game. Absorbing damage from an attack into barrier, is very different from blocking it. Barrier wont stop knockbacks at samorag, wont stop grubs at lupi ;), wont protect you from bubble at deimos, etc.

>

> standardizing mesmer and guard defensive powers is better

>

> it is better if this is actually standardizing .

> but come on when firebrand has so many aegis on 600 range with short cd and none of them has stupid 5s icd and most of aegis spell from guard are instantly (you can reapply as fast as you want ), chrono has to invest to 2 trait lines 1 gm trait , 1 master trait and use cs and alacrity to make best use of distortion share on top of well timed cast (they have 1s cast time ). now all of those for 5s aegis with 300 range and 5s icd .

>

> yeah it's totally equal .

>

> and your idea distortion after aegis . i like how guard main : distortion share was op and broken , but let's give guard something so they can pretty much invuln entire fight without any thought . sure lets do it .

 

This is true, one of the other big problems I notice is that this change makes it even more trivial because aegis share on mesmer faces the same problem it does on guardian, it just gets stripped too unreliably by everything that isn't the thing you are trying to block.

 

I feel like they should have at the very minimum changed passive ticks to be unblockable before they released this.

[Belorn.2659]

This change has a rather large impact on elementalists and rooting skills like meteor shower and ice bow 4. Those skill seems to have previously been balanced to disregard the rooting issue since the speed run guilds have ignored the downside of the skill through the use of distortion. Now that downside will be evidential in the logs.

 

But there is one aspect of the design choice that don't make sense and goes against the past design of raid encounters. In fights after fight we see mechanics where players need to trust each other to complete mechanics. Distortion played directly into this, where the players create their own trust reliance on the chrono to correctly execute the mechanic. For example, when KC jumps back at the team, trusting the distortion becomes a concept. Now instead each player will have to do the dodge on their own, removing a team based aspect. Dodging is naturally easier and safer, but it do not create team cohesion.

 

(This comment is free of any mesmer specific feedback. The thread belong in this forum because distortion as used in raids was not a mesmer ability that is interchangeable with other support class skill, but rather a team mechanic.)

[Raguel.9402]

Gorse and KC can be blocked through aegis, but whatever...

 

We just facetanked the greens through heals yesterday, so this changes nothing for VG

[musu.9205]

> @"Raguel.9402" said:

> Gorse and KC can be blocked through aegis, but whatever...

>

> We just facetanked the greens through heals yesterday, so this changes nothing for VG

 

but but vg green is one shot everyone believed that , it must be true .

[Deadvillager.1956]

The distort change was needed, especially for raids. It was even changed without taking away mesmers unique playstyle. Even without the distort share, chrono remains a very strong support/tank role for all encounters. But now the raid devs dont have to work around an insane ability when designing encounters.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Raguel.9402" said:

> > Gorse and KC can be blocked through aegis, but whatever...

> >

> > We just facetanked the greens through heals yesterday, so this changes nothing for VG

>

> but but vg green is one shot everyone believed that , it must be true .

Seriously, everyone that has failed greens even once knew it _was_ survivable. Even pugs and people relatively new to raids knew that.

 

Edit: ...well, perhaps with the exception of those dps-es that always fully depended on mesmers, druids and _other_ designated players for mechanics (and so had no knowledge of those at all). And i have seen quite a lot of those.

...you may have a point here.

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Amineo.8951" said:

> Good change overall, people will have to take a support scourge now if they wanna skip mechanics like before with the barrier changes.

 

No, they won't. Scourges don't give quickness and alacrity, and Aegis works for most of the mechanic skips anyway. Scourges are still a niche pick for when you need Epidemic.

 

> @"Deadvillager.1956" said:

> The distort change was needed, especially for raids. It was even changed without taking away mesmers unique playstyle. Even without the distort share, chrono remains a very strong support/tank role for all encounters. But now the raid devs dont have to work around an insane ability when designing encounters.

 

That's not OP's point though. And the change doesn't change the role of the mesmers in skipping mechanics.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Raguel.9402" said:

> Gorse and KC can be blocked through aegis, but whatever...

>

> We just facetanked the greens through heals yesterday, so this changes nothing for VG

 

Aegis helps against retaliation? I never knew.

 

Oh wait, you must be one of those mesmer who didn't distort for your elementalists on phase so they could precast.

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Raguel.9402" said:

> > Gorse and KC can be blocked through aegis, but whatever...

> >

> > We just facetanked the greens through heals yesterday, so this changes nothing for VG

>

> Aegis helps against retaliation? I never knew.

>

> Oh wait, you must be one of those mesmer who didn't distort for your elementalists on phase so they could precast.

 

Quick CC, or bring guardians. Problem pretty much solved.

[Equanox.2081]

I think it's just hilarious that a trait called Inspiring "Distortion" gives "Aegis" :')

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Raguel.9402" said:

> > > Gorse and KC can be blocked through aegis, but whatever...

> > >

> > > We just facetanked the greens through heals yesterday, so this changes nothing for VG

> >

> > Aegis helps against retaliation? I never knew.

> >

> > Oh wait, you must be one of those mesmer who didn't distort for your elementalists on phase so they could precast.

>

> Quick CC, or bring guardians. Problem pretty much solved.

 

Quick cc doesn't help with precasting and retal damage, bringing guardians locks out all other damage dealers on that boss from the meta. Both not really ideal solutions if you ask me.

 

Hey it's not game breaking, but raid compositions will notice a difference, especially the ones very close with skipping phases due to subpar damage.