musu.9205 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Carighan.6758" said: > > > > I sort of agree on both ends. > > > > > > > > On the one, I'm happy other players have to learn boss mechanics now. Being able to just "cheat" virtually all important mechanics was really stupid. Just not good design. > > > > > > > > But on the other hand, I also agree that the nerf removed an interesting piece of functionality. Maybe making it so only F4 is affected but shares for the full duration would have been better? > > > > > > That would have been way to op for spvp and wvw. A skill split would have been mandatory. > > > > > > I kind like the new version, let's wait and see how things turn out. Definitely an improvement for fractals. > > > > Yes, but like @"musu.9205" said, sharing 5 seconds of aegis requires an asinine level of investment in our build now. Considering that mesmer is all about team support (reflects, SoI, TW, group stealth, used to have distortion share), its kind of kitten that we require so much build investment to share 5 seconds of aegis with our teammates. That's not even close to being balanced. Either the effect needs to be buffed (which would be similar to my suggestion), or the investment required needs to be dropped significantly. But there isn't a good way to drop the investment level, so ideally we just need to change the effect > > Well yes and no. With boon duration that aegis is now 10 seconds and gets reapplied potentially every 5 seconds (ICD of the trait). That is a lot of aegis with chronos summoning phantasms and using signets left and right. > > I do agree that Domination could use some love. Taking that line for only 1 trait is silly. maybe make quickness from interrupt trait affect allies around 300 - 600 radius . buff power block dmg in pve or add more breakbar dmg when you cc (100 more breakbar dmg ) change fragility : you do 3% dmg vs target with 10 vuln stack , 10 % more dmg vs target with 20 vuln stacks , 15% more dmg vs target with 25 vuln stack change rending Shatter to whenever you hit one target 10 times , you do self shatter same as f1 . 5s icd . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Carighan.6758" said: > I sort of agree on both ends. > > On the one, I'm happy other players have to learn boss mechanics now. Being able to just "cheat" virtually all important mechanics was really stupid. Just not good design. > > But on the other hand, I also agree that the nerf removed an interesting piece of functionality. Maybe making it so only F4 is affected but shares for the full duration would have been better? I agree I see both sides. I also think many are not truly seeing the entire picture and where it will realistically make a difference. Most Chronos are sitting at 95% boon duration during shares so it’s also 9.5s of aegis which means it’ll be there ready to block the next attack for if that person messes up or just lucks out and something tries to CC them, obviously if Chrono runs Domi. There’s also very few places where aegis instead of distortion makes a real difference. Where I am the most sad about losing it is in WvW/PvP where you could giving an ally that 1s to get a Rez, get a heal off, cast stealth etc without being interrupted or zerged to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > lol distort sharing wasn't hard it just required you to know the actual boss fights in and out which should be the fact for every single player. You had to cast a phantasm or signet 1 to half a second before the mech happened then you had actual distort which was even easier time wise. > Nothing is hard once you can do it. Now as far as "just" casting something 1/2 a second before the mechanic: - F4 was instant - SoI had a minor cast time - Focus Phantasm had a unique cast time - Sword phantasm had a unique cast time - Shield Phantasm had a unique cast time - you had to watch the internal cooldown on the trait to not proc it to early all while keeping up your rotation and potentially tanking the boss. Please explain to me which other class had an even near this complex rotation or job in raids? > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > As for domination it doesn't need a kitten thing it's not meant to be a supportive line to begin with it just so happened that the signet trait played insanely well with inspiring distortion. > > Distort sharing was a very unhealthy thing for the game, the real reason ppl are upset is because they had to spend time learning every single boss mechanic and knowing what to distort vs what not to what boss abilities looked like and specific tells for each attack > > As for ppl being upset about guardians having more aegis its one of their main mechanics and chronos already have well of precog which in itself is the biggest slap in the face to a guardian. The only "guardian" that will supply enough aegis for it to matter would be frequently enough would be firebrand with the mantra heal or giving up dps to use f3 and that's only aegis where as invul worked on a ton of stuff aegis didn't apply. > > Chronomancers are perfectly fine I highly doubt ppl will suddenly start wanting Quickness firebrand and Alacrity renegades over chronos. Oh I agree on everything you said here. We'll have to wait and see how the meta develops. I'm not seeing chronos replaced yet, but a lot of non chronos now will have to know mechanics better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacsandris.8065 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I just want to congratulate to the ppl who made these changes. Basically removing distortion sharing from the game while there was only a handful of ppl in game who could distort while maintaining boons so it was worth doing it. Cuz of the low number of players who could actually do this it certainly could not be called OP. Besides changing this did not affect almost a single f thing in the game. It just made everything worse. Let's see at VG instead of distorting greens now u just faceroll through mechanics and heal through the damage. Literally have to puke. I had such joy in this game learning how to distort and after it i was still having fun and striving to achieve even better boon uptimes. I considered chrono the most enjoyable classes to play always adapt to things while providing a lot the team. And now u tell me that i can't distort anymore. Cuz some ppl is blindly without any competence making changes in this game in the name of so called "balance". What was the point of removing distortion? Better class diversity? Still 1 chrono for each sub and 1 in each fotm group will be the meta because of the boons and CC and required in pug groups. Not letting ppl avoidiong main boss mechanics? U still block most of the things with aegis or faceroll through it with some heal. Nice job "balancing team" just like with grace of the land. A few more "balance" patch like this and you'll completely lose a part of the gw2 community forever. Maybe that's what you want. Eliminate all the hc players in this game. If that's the case you are doing a wonderful job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia.3598 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > > lol distort sharing wasn't hard it just required you to know the actual boss fights in and out which should be the fact for every single player. You had to cast a phantasm or signet 1 to half a second before the mech happened then you had actual distort which was even easier time wise. > > > > Nothing is hard once you can do it. Now as far as "just" casting something 1/2 a second before the mechanic: > > - F4 was instant > - SoI had a minor cast time > - Focus Phantasm had a unique cast time > - Sword phantasm had a unique cast time > - Shield Phantasm had a unique cast time > - you had to watch the internal cooldown on the trait to not proc it to early > > all while keeping up your rotation and potentially tanking the boss. Please explain to me which other class had an even near this complex rotation or job in raids? That's not hard at all you would literally only casts phantasms to proc the trait after you get your main 3 up or you need the block from shield 4. Outside of this the class rotation isn't hard at all the hardest part is making sure your teammates stand in your wells, shield 5 and are in range for inspiration signet share which funny enough is mostly on them to make sure their butts are in range. As for the tanking part, that would apply to any class that's tanking the tank will always need to be one of if not the most situational aware person in the group that or they're being fed directions all which has nothing to do with actual chronomancer. The only reason chronomancers tank is because they give up the least amount of "stuff" mostly dps while providing a kitten ton of things besides just quickness and alacrity such as condi cleansing, top notch/best cc/ boon sharing, amazing pulls and Reflects or aegis if needed. At the start of raids you had ppl tanking on all sorts of classes Sword/pistol thieves with acro, Scrapper tanks with hammer and toolkit, Blood traitline Reapers Healer/toughness eles with earth shield, mace shield warriors, Glint/Jalis Heralds the list can go on and on. While it's pretty much true, ppl need to stop applying the job of "tanking" as if it were something only Chronos were capable of everyone can do. As for the argument of difficulty heck condi engs and fresh air scepter tempests ( when it was a thing) there rotations alone were more difficult then everything a chrono had to do. Ppl praise chronos because they can do all the stuff the great majority of ppl don't want to do such as tanking and doing mechanics and even letting allies outright ignore them, the actual complexity of chronomancers rotation isn't hard at all. But hey like you said nothing is hard once you can do it which is very true. Chronomancers are fine :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > Non Mesmers asked for Chrono nerfs so they took the ability away for Chrono to carry those players through content. Love it. > > Yeah, the irony makes one giggle. I love that they addressed some of our other issues though. > > Monday next week will be when most groups notice big differences. > > That said, I have to say, balance patches every quarter year are way more healthy for the pve endgame (spvp doesn't have gear so not affected and would benefit from more frequent releases). Having to regear characters every 4-8 weeks is quite a lot of effort for the pve endgame for some. I see where you are coming from, but I would argue that more frequent balance patches would have a rough spot with this for a bit, but would then find their pace and get things to a more balanced spot overall. At that point, you wouldn't have to regear after every balance patch, since it would be real balancing, instead of completely changing what builds are good on a class. @"Lalainnia.3598" You hit the nail on the head when you say that Domination is not a supporting line. Which just adds to my argument that BI was the problem, not II, and needed to be changed. Even without distortion share, BI is a ridiculous amount of self support, offering mesmer's huge access to distortion (which is itself a problem period), but its in a line that's supposed to be all about damage. BI should have been changed before inspiring distortion was changed. I actually think that BI should still be changed actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > > > lol distort sharing wasn't hard it just required you to know the actual boss fights in and out which should be the fact for every single player. You had to cast a phantasm or signet 1 to half a second before the mech happened then you had actual distort which was even easier time wise. > > > > > > > Nothing is hard once you can do it. Now as far as "just" casting something 1/2 a second before the mechanic: > > > > - F4 was instant > > - SoI had a minor cast time > > - Focus Phantasm had a unique cast time > > - Sword phantasm had a unique cast time > > - Shield Phantasm had a unique cast time > > - you had to watch the internal cooldown on the trait to not proc it to early > > > > all while keeping up your rotation and potentially tanking the boss. Please explain to me which other class had an even near this complex rotation or job in raids? > > > > That's not hard at all you would literally only casts phantasms to proc the trait after you get your main 3 up or you need the block from shield 4. Outside of this the class rotation isn't hard at all the hardest part is making sure your teammates stand in your wells, shield 5 and are in range for inspiration signet share which funny enough is mostly on them to make sure their butts are in range. > and your boon up time most importantly quickness is just magically there? You haven't actually played chrono in raids have you? While you can on some bosses slow down rotation, in order to maintain perma quickness you have to recast phantasms. > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > Chronomancers are fine :3 I never said they weren't. I just took offense to your comment that distortion was easy. It was one of the few skills which required more practice than 2-3 boss tries and was compared to other classes definitely not "easy". Otherwise the raids would have been swimming with chronomancers who could properly distort, that was not the case last time I checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > > > lol distort sharing wasn't hard it just required you to know the actual boss fights in and out which should be the fact for every single player. You had to cast a phantasm or signet 1 to half a second before the mech happened then you had actual distort which was even easier time wise. > > > > > > > Nothing is hard once you can do it. Now as far as "just" casting something 1/2 a second before the mechanic: > > > > - F4 was instant > > - SoI had a minor cast time > > - Focus Phantasm had a unique cast time > > - Sword phantasm had a unique cast time > > - Shield Phantasm had a unique cast time > > - you had to watch the internal cooldown on the trait to not proc it to early > > > > all while keeping up your rotation and potentially tanking the boss. Please explain to me which other class had an even near this complex rotation or job in raids? > > > > That's not hard at all you would literally only casts phantasms to proc the trait after you get your main 3 up or you need the block from shield 4. > Chronomancers are fine :3 that tells me that you didn't really do much distortion share in raid before . many mechanic mes usually distortion have shorter timer than soi cd . so yeah its still complex enough that you don't know how to do it yet . except if you use a dd tank , he doesn't need to worry about anything for group except position .their tank ability(dodge ) would still mess up their dps rotation but not as much as chrono boon share rotation . yeah chrono quickness share is easy but hey without distortion share it's even easier . I don't see what's your point . you can also say staff weave dps rotation is basically stack every possible hard hitting dmg source on double fire buff gw2 is a game without any meaningful recourse management , overall its simple . but the skill ceiling difference between each spec is still there . it's like saying hey gw2 raid is so easy same as open world . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacsandris.8065 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > > > > lol distort sharing wasn't hard it just required you to know the actual boss fights in and out which should be the fact for every single player. You had to cast a phantasm or signet 1 to half a second before the mech happened then you had actual distort which was even easier time wise. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing is hard once you can do it. Now as far as "just" casting something 1/2 a second before the mechanic: > > > > > > - F4 was instant > > > - SoI had a minor cast time > > > - Focus Phantasm had a unique cast time > > > - Sword phantasm had a unique cast time > > > - Shield Phantasm had a unique cast time > > > - you had to watch the internal cooldown on the trait to not proc it to early > > > > > > all while keeping up your rotation and potentially tanking the boss. Please explain to me which other class had an even near this complex rotation or job in raids? > > > > > > > > That's not hard at all you would literally only casts phantasms to proc the trait after you get your main 3 up or you need the block from shield 4. Outside of this the class rotation isn't hard at all the hardest part is making sure your teammates stand in your wells, shield 5 and are in range for inspiration signet share which funny enough is mostly on them to make sure their butts are in range. > > > > and your boon up time most importantly quickness is just magically there? You haven't actually played chrono in raids have you? > > While you can on some bosses slow down rotation, in order to maintain perma quickness you have to recast phantasms. > Wow u can actually find ppl in memser forum who've played the class before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia.3598 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Lol the sadness level is high I figured you understood that phant casting to proc the trait soi was already taken into account. The real stacking of quickness comes from CS you can hold the phantasm soi cast for a mech and if you need even more distort share ppl take signet of ether. I'm done here though I realize this is going to turn into a butthurt contest about how hard chrono is and how anet keeps taking nice things away from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > Lol the sadness level is high I figured you understood that phant casting to proc the trait soi was already taken into account. The real stacking of quickness comes from CS you can hold the phantasm soi cast for a mech and if you need even more distort share ppl take signet of ether. I'm done here though I realize this is going to turn into a kitten contest about how hard chrono is and how anet keeps taking nice things away from them. What are you talking about? The main quickness comes from signet casts (3 second base, 6 seconds at 100% bd) and thus phantasms. Pleases, just stop. No kitten contest. You are just talking rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > Lol the sadness level is high I figured you understood that phant casting to proc the trait soi was already taken into account. The real stacking of quickness comes from CS you can hold the phantasm soi cast for a mech and if you need even more distort share ppl take signet of ether. I'm done here though I realize this is going to turn into a kitten contest about how hard chrono is and how anet keeps taking nice things away from them. i mean its so clearly you are clueless what you are talking about ."The real stacking of quickness comes from CS " magically .not to mention you do know that in many raid runs chrono are using moa with cs for important cc phase . what u said is "you would literally only casts phantasms to proc the trait after you get your main 3 up or you need the block from shield 4" key word "only " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacsandris.8065 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I imagine ppl like these makgin "balancing" changes on chrono... So sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabidsmiles.5926 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 In the end, I am ultimately ok with the nerf. Yeah it was seriously over-handed and the Signet proc was the one that needed the toning down but it's one less thing stressing me out while playing my Chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacsandris.8065 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"rabidsmiles.5926" said: > In the end, I am ultimately ok with the nerf. Yeah it was seriously over-handed and the Signet proc was the one that needed the toning down but it's one less thing stressing me out while playing my Chrono. Poor u had to suffer such stress playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabidsmiles.5926 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 > @"Kacsandris.8065" said: > > @"rabidsmiles.5926" said: > > In the end, I am ultimately ok with the nerf. Yeah it was seriously over-handed and the Signet proc was the one that needed the toning down but it's one less thing stressing me out while playing my Chrono. > > Poor u had to suffer such stress playing it. Some of us play games to destress...sarcasm isn't helpful to discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 To the people who say man i don't wanna have to learn my class to play it, i just wanna enjoy the class. Please understand the gravity of your comment, once you have understood that please beware most the folks here are talking about raids. If you continue to hold your beliefs your just fundamentally a different type of player from the people who raid or decide to go and actually learn the classes ins and outs. Just because you don't enjoy higher skill ceiling and being heavily relied apon in content doesn't mean everyone else falls into that category as a mesmer main for 5 years the class has always been the class to require a great deal of skill and awareness then other classes bar engineers and eles please understand taking away tools such as inspiration is a not only a blow to the time spent to use it properly but also a blow to the people who play mesmer due to its demanding play style. Imagine if they reworked kits into just one skill for engineers and now engineers could camp one weapon with out a dps loss, sure it would open up the class to alot more people but it would also anger a large some of the engineers who spent the time to learn there crazy rotations, its not just and one monolithic issue as people like to tout. And Imo class identity skills like distort should not removed its what sets mesmers apart from other support classes, anet should have reworked the raid encouters to go through distort instead of removing it from inspiration, and yes i also feel that engineer kits is also a class identity skill that should never be changed because it is what sets engineers apart from other classes. I do not want the only thing to separate classes are the animations other supports can bring the buffs we can now + with there class unique abilities outside of 2 Phantasms (which generally aren't used) there is nothing that separates support mesmers from other supports like revs and fb now, even though revs and fbs have tools that seperate them from us, FB tomes/rev passive boonshare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 the thing is without distortion share , what you do as a chrono beside that boring quickness rotation? anet wants mesmer to be high skill ceiling class , where is the skill ceiling ?mirage dps rotation is easy ,chrono quickness rotation is easy . btw if you check many people who are saying distortion op and want to nerf chrono are selfish necro and guard , somehow they think this will lead to their support /tank time . 9/10 raid team is doing dps race now . they could have nerfed it to blur or 1s lasting block . but effort vs reward ratio must be off in gw2 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > To the people who say man i don't wanna have to learn my class to play it, i just wanna enjoy the class. > Please understand the gravity of your comment, once you have understood that please beware most the folks here are talking about raids. > > If you continue to hold your beliefs your just fundamentally a different type of player from the people who raid or decide to go and actually learn the classes ins and outs. Just because you don't enjoy higher skill ceiling and being heavily relied apon in content doesn't mean everyone else falls into that category as a mesmer main for 5 years the class has always been the class to require a great deal of skill and awareness then other classes bar engineers and eles please understand taking away tools such as inspiration is a not only a blow to the time spent to use it properly but also a blow to the people who play mesmer due to its demanding play style. > > Imagine if they reworked kits into just one skill for engineers and now engineers could camp one weapon with out a dps loss, sure it would open up the class to alot more people but it would also anger a large some of the engineers who spent the time to learn there crazy rotations, its not just and one monolithic issue as people like to tout. And Imo class identity skills like distort should not removed its what sets mesmers apart from other support classes, anet should have reworked the raid encouters to go through distort instead of removing it from inspiration, and yes i also feel that engineer kits is also a class identity skill that should never be changed because it is what sets engineers apart from other classes. > > I do not want the only thing to separate classes are the animations other supports can bring the buffs we can now + with there class unique abilities outside of 2 Phantasms (which generally aren't used) there is nothing that separates support mesmers from other supports like revs and fb now, even though revs and fbs have tools that seperate them from us, FB tomes/rev passive boonshare. meanwhile we still have those themed meaningless class mechanic that are broken bad for gameplay reason like phantasms , life of illusion , rng boon from CI , chaos armor , stupid new pom , meaningless swordsmen might stack . 2.5 mantra cast time lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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