(Pvp) what if ineptitude

[tartarus.1082]

Obviously split from pve, but what if Inep only proced condi on interrupts, and the condi application was slightly increased to compensate.

 

This could potentially reduce the spam like aspects of condi mirage and reward well timed plays, making the build more interesting to run and less toxic to fight.

[OriOri.8724]

Would make it borderline useless against targets with stab though. And when it did land, we would have an even bigger burst than we do now, despite the recent patch that tried to lower condi burst.

 

That said, I'm open to the idea of lowering ineptitude to 1stack of confusion for 9-10 seconds. Would lower the burst aspect of the trait, and be in line with the changes that every class aside mesmer got in the last patch.

[musu.9205]

like i said in other thread

before nerfing ineptitude

they should look at janut confusion stack and riddle of sand

those things are passive and brain dead to use anyway

[tartarus.1082]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> Would make it borderline useless against targets with stab though. And when it did land, we would have an even bigger burst than we do now, despite the recent patch that tried to lower condi burst.

>

> That said, I'm open to the idea of lowering ineptitude to 1stack of confusion for 9-10 seconds. Would lower the burst aspect of the trait, and be in line with the changes that every class aside mesmer got in the last patch.

 

True I guess my thought was making it a "condi power block". However power can actually use power block cause they have access to strip and damage spike without it.

 

However I think the real problem I have with condi mirage is that the bursts feel braindead an unrewarding. On the other hand, power mirage, which is what I've been maining and investing into, requires set-up and success feels so much more satisfying.

[tartarus.1082]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> like i said in other thread

> before nerfing ineptitude

> they should look at janut confusion stack and riddle of sand

> those things are passive and brain dead to use anyway

 

True, my motivation for the suggestion was to reduce the overall passivity of mirage. When I run condi I just feel like a dispenser zipping across the map lol.

 

[OriOri.8724]

If its mirage that you feel is braindead, then why did you want to change core mesmer traits? Mirage has plenty of other targets for changes that should absolutely take higher priority if this was a change directed at improving a mirage build (note that improving here means to make it more engaging and fun to play)

[tartarus.1082]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> If its mirage that you feel is braindead, then why did you want to change core mesmer traits? Mirage has plenty of other targets for changes that should absolutely take higher priority if this was a change directed at improving a mirage build (note that improving here means to make it more engaging and fun to play)

 

well I don't think mirage itself is braindead, I personally differentiate between power and condi mirage, thinking the latter has an excessively passive playstyle that feels like a condi dispenser.

 

when I say passive play, I am mainly referring to the potential for mirage to deliver large bursts of damage, not only through instant cast skills but without any significant set up. For example, I personally think condi chrono as it is typically used is more active and balanced. Noteworthy condi bursts with moa require the generation of clones, which can be denied through blinds and evasion, and the securing of moa through a stunlock and immobilize. Sure a well executed moa burst will do a lot of damage, but there is a lot Mesmer has to do to reach that point after initiating combat.

 

In contrast, condi mirage can deal even more damage with minimal set up, and arguably more sustain through damage avoidance rather the passive defense from inspiration that chrono synergizes with. However, this is only enabled by mirage's interaction with core traits from dueling and illusion. Specifically, i think the biggest offenders are ineptitude paired with blind on shatter, which compound on the condi application provided from the illusions trait line. This synergy lets you deliver huge personal damage spikes, without much in terms of clone set up or stun locks. personally, i would also like to see the burst potential of torch modified to a more dps role, with the last trait change torch skills can be lined up with appropriate precasts to blast like 9 stacks of burn and deal crazy burst damage.

 

regarding your statement about focusing on core changes, i understand your perspective but have to disagree with it. the mirage traitline, which of course has op traits that anet should examine like elusive mind, doesn't directly make the condi build op. instead, I believe it is more important to look at synergy between the specializations and how the build comes together as a whole. For example, one of the biggest contributors to chrono clone gen was the synergy between persistence and chronophantasma, which anet decided to nerf by replacing the function of persistance.

 

on a side note, what i hope condi mirage eventually becomes is a spec that revolves around boonstrip/debuffs around lockdown play. if anet managed to work traits in a manner that allowed a build with this capacity to be run, i think it would be much more enjoyable and rewarding to play.

 

[Simonoly.4352]

> @"tartarus.1082" said:

> Obviously split from pve, but what if Inep only proced condi on interrupts, and the condi application was slightly increased to compensate.

>

> This could potentially reduce the spam like aspects of condi mirage and reward well timed plays, making the build more interesting to run and less toxic to fight.

 

You mean bring back Mistrust? Yes please. That trait was incredibly fun to use.

 

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> like i said in other thread

> before nerfing ineptitude

> they should look at janut confusion stack and riddle of sand

> those things are passive and brain dead to use anyway

 

ahh, Jaunt is an Elite... dhaa yeah! what do you expect?

[Windwalker.7421]

Ineptitude used to give what 4x Confusion in an AoE around anyone you interrupted..and it was literally barely used by anyone.

 

No thanks, the whole interrupt based playstyle has been tried since release and simply doesn't work well with GW2 combat mechanics. Way too many forms of negation for an event that is very difficult to execute skillfully, and most often comes down to plain ole luck.

 

The way Ineptitude works now is certainly much weaker, but also much more reliable.

[Genesis.5169]

What do you mean by spam?

F2 is a 21second cd.

Axe 3 is 6 seconds.

Ambush doubles as our dodge.

Thats pretty much all our confuse unless you rune sand through glass and i have no idea why your running that in pvp.

 

Droping every other shatter will add 1 stack of all of them have cds.

When people talk about spam i really do not know what going on it seems like application of any condition damage regardless of the cd is considered spam why does this not apply to power skills?

 

Please some one explain to me this term.

[tartarus.1082]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> What do you mean by spam?

> F2 is a 21second cd.

> Axe 3 is 6 seconds.

> Ambush doubles as our dodge.

> Thats pretty much all our confuse unless you rune sand through glass and i have no idea why your running that in pvp.

>

> Droping every other shatter will add 1 stack of all of them have cds.

> When people talk about spam i really do not know what going on it seems like application of any condition damage regardless of the cd is considered spam why does this not apply to power skills?

>

> Please some one explain to me this term.

 

Firstly let's not understate the confusion output. Assuming you're properly traited, every shatter will stack around 3-5 stacks, with interrupts you're looking at even more. Then you have jaunt and riddle of sand. You also have torch with a significant burn burst, again assuming you've properly traited.

 

When people talk about condi spam, the generally understood implication is the ability to deliver significant bursts without the need for much in terms of timing and set up. This is especially applicable to mirage because of the instant cast nature of the most common combos. when compared to something like power warrior, you have hard hitting skills, but with significant tells and the need for cc to reliably hit them (for examples just consider hundred blades and eviscerate).

 

Also if you're properly skill rotating and managing cool downs, mirages almost always have a condi application off cd. Of course we don't mean you use the same skill over and over, so just picking out 3 of our skills isn't especially valid to dismiss the idea of "spam".

 

Moreover, mirage and dueling lets you maintain a significant amount of vigor so frequently ambushing is a very realistic possibility.

 

Lastly confusion isn't the only condition a good mirage build has access to. Not only does you're incomplete list of confusion procs undersell the builds potential application, you also neglect every other condi we can out put.

 

That being said perhaps a more suitable term could more accurately describe the play. However, it's what the community has decided to use, so I'll stick with using an already recognized term associated with the condi play style. Specifically, it captures the perception of almost constant application that overwhelms any build that can't spec for heavy cleanse. Consider revanent which genuinely has no access to burst cleanse on it's utilities. I mean it is literally impossible for a power herald to have cleanse.

[Genesis.5169]

> @"tartarus.1082" said:

> > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > What do you mean by spam?

> > F2 is a 21second cd.

> > Axe 3 is 6 seconds.

> > Ambush doubles as our dodge.

> > Thats pretty much all our confuse unless you rune sand through glass and i have no idea why your running that in pvp.

> >

> > Droping every other shatter will add 1 stack of all of them have cds.

> > When people talk about spam i really do not know what going on it seems like application of any condition damage regardless of the cd is considered spam why does this not apply to power skills?

> >

> > Please some one explain to me this term.

>

> Firstly let's not understate the confusion output. Assuming you're properly traited, every shatter will stack around 3-5 stacks, with interrupts you're looking at even more. Then you have jaunt and riddle of sand. You also have torch with a significant burn burst, again assuming you've properly traited.

>

> When people talk about condi spam, the generally understood implication is the ability to deliver significant bursts without the need for much in terms of timing and set up. This is especially applicable to mirage because of the instant cast nature of the most common combos. when compared to something like power warrior, you have hard hitting skills, but with significant tells and the need for cc to reliably hit them (for examples just consider hundred blades and eviscerate).

>

> Also if you're properly skill rotating and managing cool downs, mirages almost always have a condi application off cd. Of course we don't mean you use the same skill over and over, so just picking out 3 of our skills isn't especially valid to dismiss the idea of "spam".

>

> Moreover, mirage and dueling lets you maintain a significant amount of vigor so frequently ambushing is a very realistic possibility.

>

> Lastly confusion isn't the only condition a good mirage build has access to. Not only does you're incomplete list of confusion procs undersell the builds potential application, you also neglect every other condi we can out put.

>

> That being said perhaps a more suitable term could more accurately describe the play. However, it's what the community has decided to use, so I'll stick with using an already recognized term associated with the condi play style. Specifically, it captures the perception of almost constant application that overwhelms any build that can't spec for heavy cleanse. Consider revanent which genuinely has no access to burst cleanse on it's utilities. I mean it is literally impossible for a power herald to have cleanse.

 

So where is our confusion stacks that require no set up and timing?

Cause Shatters require clones and timing because they run right at you while not attacking so a guy can dodge them a mile away you either gotta cc, or catch a guy with his dodges down.

 

The incomplete list is from, Sands which if you have on your bar you already a bad mesmer.

Traited shatter which require set up to get stacks up your clones.

Axe 3 Yes this of the skills that we have that will generally be used a lot but it has a huge tell if your not already in melee.

Signet of midnight traited your generally using this defensively or before entering if prestige is down.

 

We have Prestige/Mage combo but my god thats so easy to dodge if you know i'm there its not even funny, if i catch you off guard yeah you die but situations like that apply to nearly every other class in the game.

 

As for secondaries

Mirage auto isn't going to kill you faster then power auto's from any class so lets not bring that up either.

Staff is nullity.

You have scepter 2, which if you have a block skill that's it i hate LARGE PINK CHANNELS which gives you all of the time in the world to react with a counter if you have one or a block or you can prime up that cleanse at make confuse stack.

 

This spam doesn't exist what mesmers have are burst windows and and time buying tools we aren't spaming anything a mesmer who spams is found easily amongst his clones shatters to so and wastes all his dodges on ambush.