[sPvP] S/D vs S/P

[Volrath.1473]

hey guys, I've been playing around with both S/P and S/D in arenas with great success but every were i read that S/D is better for PvP then S/P.

I can see the advantages of S/D with the unblockable attacks but warriors, ranges and guardians can still negate it's dmg... instead of blocking just just take zero dmg....

on the other had S/P interrupts the shit out of everyone wile Pistol wiping their behinds down with quickness...

 

I keep swaping them around and cant make up my mind to pick one to focus on...

 

maybe i'm overlooking something, idk, help me out here pls ;) if you play either S/D or S/P tell me why you picked one over the other.

 

tia

[Maugetarr.6823]

Well, using Daredevil with bound, I chose S/P because of pulmonary impact and the on demand stealth for disengaging. If you use steal after the evade on PW starts, you can help your team spike down Scourges pretty well without too much risk.

[kaikalii.4198]

[Here](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVl0MhCnYvTw0Jw+EHwElOBCgdznGxRb0LsQ8JA-jpxHQBqY/BldIAg3DAAAHBgrVGggnAAA) is what I have been using. I too have tried both S/P and S/D a great deal, and personally, I prefer S/P. I take Acro over DD for pain response and swindler's equilibrium. Also, every one of your utilities removes conditions, so you can actually 1v1 Scourges, which have been extremely popular in the meta lately. I take thieves' guild for the damage and the distraction, also because people don't usually expect it. Pistol whip can be used both offensively for the stun and the damage, as well as defensively for the long evade frames. This build does a ton of damage, can escape from most situations, and is good in both 1v1 and team fights. Pistol whip can be used both offensively for the stun and the damage, as well as defensively for the long evade frames.

[DoomNexus.5324]

It depends.

I don't have much experience with S/P other than vanilla-low-level-PvE but you definitely want to take S/D when your enemy has a very bunkery comp with lots of boons you can strip.

It really shines with a huge amount of evades (S/P has also a lot of evades but since #3 locks you in place you don't have as a good mobility) and for the most part boon strips.

 

So your primary targets would be warriors and guardians.

S/D is better with core thief so DA, Trickery and Acro btw. Since you didn't specify your specs I just want to mention this. You also don't tell us anything about your playstyle so maybe you just use your tools wrong/not optimal.

You should use your auto attack as well and make your #3 as unpredictable as possible (also use it to evade and as gap closer, not #2). #4 and #5 are very situational, #4 maybe if you need to do 1 or 2 ranged attacks and you can't/don't want to use #2 or change to shortbow. #5 is most likely just for disengaging (although very situational/optional) or when stealth #1 is useful (which is almost never the case)

and #2 is almost entirely for engage/disengage. (not as gap closer)

 

Because everyone claims S/D is better than S/P:

I can remember exactly 1 situation where a S/P thief killed me and only because he got me offguard in a teamfight. But I can't count how many times I had a hard fight and sometimes lost against a S/D thief.

[Dahkeus.8243]

S/P is fine for lower tiers of PvP and it's an easier spec to learn, but the skill ceiling on S/D is much higher and can be a lot more effective than S/P in the right hands.

[Jinks.2057]

Basically S/P will work fine due to no one expecting you to run it. It's a noob friendly weaponset & has a really low skill floor/ceiling in terms of thief sets.

 

What you'll find is that a good player you will best in the beginning of the match only to have them neutralize you for the rest of the match. Also at higher levels of play thief is more about rotations and s/p is very slow. This will actually hurt your team due to there being better 1v1 & team fight options

[Volrath.1473]

Yeah sorry I didn't give more details...

Before I stopped playing gw2 in 2015 I was a beast! I was playing core (I stopped before Hot was released) S/D-SB DA/TRIC/ACRO with great success.

 

Atm I'm trying to make Deadeye work.

I've been playing DE/TRIC/ACRO and DE/TRIC/CA with rifle and so.e times S/D some times S/P.

 

So far it's working fine with both weapons sets and also either with ACRO and CA.

 

I find that with acro it works better though as for mobility I must say that with practice you can move around as fast or even faster then with short bow using rifle #4 and shadow step.

 

Same playstyle as before with core S/D. Shadowsteping all over the place and extreamly dodgy. Plus the kiting capabilities and burst from rifle.

 

As I said b4 I've been having fun with both and been very successful with both. But I want to pick one to stick with and perfect it instead of constantly changing... both have pros and cons, I'm just not sure witch is better/more useful then the other ?

 

Btw atm I'm jumping between gold and silver. Use to be gold T3 but tilted off prime time and got a ridiculous losing strick that took me down from gold t3 to silver t3. Now I'm floating between then.

[Maugetarr.6823]

> @"Volrath.1473" said:

> Yeah sorry I didn't give more details...

> Before I stopped playing gw2 in 2015 I was a beast! I was playing core (I stopped before Hot was released) S/D-SB DA/TRIC/ACRO with great success.

>

> Atm I'm trying to make Deadeye work.

> I've been playing DE/TRIC/ACRO and DE/TRIC/CA with rifle and so.e times S/D some times S/P.

>

> So far it's working fine with both weapons sets and also either with ACRO and CA.

>

> I find that with acro it works better though as for mobility I must say that with practice you can move around as fast or even faster then with short bow using rifle #4 and shadow step.

>

> Same playstyle as before with core S/D. Shadowsteping all over the place and extreamly dodgy. Plus the kiting capabilities and burst from rifle.

>

> As I said b4 I've been having fun with both and been very successful with both. But I want to pick one to stick with and perfect it instead of constantly changing... both have pros and cons, I'm just not sure witch is better/more useful then the other ?

>

> Btw atm I'm jumping between gold and silver. Use to be gold T3 but tilted off prime time and got a ridiculous losing strick that took me down from gold t3 to silver t3. Now I'm floating between then.

 

I'd go with acro. If you have the quickness on mark and stun on next attack after mark, swindlers equilibrium could help a lot. That said, if you're focusing on using rifle more, the damage traits in CS are hard to pass up.

[Volrath.1473]

> @"Maugetarr.6823" said:

> > @"Volrath.1473" said:

> > Yeah sorry I didn't give more details...

> > Before I stopped playing gw2 in 2015 I was a beast! I was playing core (I stopped before Hot was released) S/D-SB DA/TRIC/ACRO with great success.

> >

> > Atm I'm trying to make Deadeye work.

> > I've been playing DE/TRIC/ACRO and DE/TRIC/CA with rifle and so.e times S/D some times S/P.

> >

> > So far it's working fine with both weapons sets and also either with ACRO and CA.

> >

> > I find that with acro it works better though as for mobility I must say that with practice you can move around as fast or even faster then with short bow using rifle #4 and shadow step.

> >

> > Same playstyle as before with core S/D. Shadowsteping all over the place and extreamly dodgy. Plus the kiting capabilities and burst from rifle.

> >

> > As I said b4 I've been having fun with both and been very successful with both. But I want to pick one to stick with and perfect it instead of constantly changing... both have pros and cons, I'm just not sure witch is better/more useful then the other ?

> >

> > Btw atm I'm jumping between gold and silver. Use to be gold T3 but tilted off prime time and got a ridiculous losing strick that took me down from gold t3 to silver t3. Now I'm floating between then.

>

> I'd go with acro. If you have the quickness on mark and stun on next attack after mark, swindlers equilibrium could help a lot. That said, if you're focusing on using rifle more, the damage traits in CS are hard to pass up.

 

You nailed it! What I use to do was wait to see the line-up of the enemy team and pick either acro or CS.

 

Came up with a solution for that. I play acro BUT i run with Assassin's Signet to make up for the dps loss from CS. I get less sustained but a nice rifle spike wen in need it.

 

On a +1 situation i snipe and move on with the rotation. In a 1v1 situation I try to start from stealth get my cc in then 2x tree round burst and 1x DJ then work from there, kiting or switch weapon and get in melee. If it is a bunker i use 3x tree round burst or double tap if I need to be mobile, it's good dmg and a lot of might, then switch weapons and let hell break lose with all that might and quickness....

[Alatar.7364]

Are you talking about Ranked/AT PvP?

If yes, the answer is very easy. S/D is not taken only for its DMG, it is used for its Boonstrip and Boonsteal which is extremely impactful on the Match in this Age of FB/Scourge, you get to Strip boons with Attack that can be repeated often and deals high DMG while having Two Steals for yet another DMG and most Importantly a Stability steal.

For example if you had higher dmg with S/P you would non the less Fail/Die where S/D would succeed.

Also S/D Thief will kill S/P Thief fairly easily.

 

If you are talking about Unrank, then it absolutely doesn't matter, play whatever you want, if pure DMG is what you want then you might go DA/Tr/CS power D/D or D/P or DD D/P... Anything =D

[Volrath.1473]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> Are you talking about Ranked/AT PvP?

> If yes, the answer is very easy. S/D is not taken only for its DMG, it is used for its Boonstrip and Boonsteal which is extremely impactful on the Match in this Age of FB/Scourge, you get to Strip boons with Attack that can be repeated often and deals high DMG while having Two Steals for yet another DMG and most Importantly a Stability steal.

> For example if you had higher dmg with S/P you would non the less Fail/Die where S/D would succeed.

> Also S/D Thief will kill S/P Thief fairly easily.

>

> If you are talking about Unrank, then it absolutely doesn't matter, play whatever you want, if pure DMG is what you want then you might go DA/Tr/CS power D/D or D/P or DD D/P... Anything =D

 

THIS was the info I was looking for! Tyvm mate :)

 

I'm not looking for raw dmg as I said I'm running with DE TRIC ACRO I'm just trying to make DE work for me without making me a sitting duck, a easy kill but at the same time I need to be able to support my team as best as I can and keep me alive.

 

Wen I get home I'll link my build and a quick guide/playstyle for it.

 

I've received whispers from other thieves after the match finishes asking me about my build. No one is expecting a deadeye to be so strong in melee and take me for granted. I've won 2v1s in unranked with this build.

 

I'm far form being pro or anything like that in total casual (sous chef, married and with a kid) but im competend and ive traines 2 guys that are currently playing with my build and like me with great success wile having a blast ?

[Volrath.1473]

@Home!

so [THIS ](http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAU8YnsMBNOh1FDmOBUGjFqCrrnEAOA8ByC5j0LD8BGAA-jZxHQBA4gAQwHAQP2fIgXBgrVGAA "THIS ")is the build im running with right now.

 

the playstyle very straight forward, the catch here is to use Assassin's Signet and and Binding Shadows correctly.

If the enemy is not aware of my presence i Kneel > pre-cast Binding Shadows > Mark > Assassin's Sig followed by either 2x Triple Round Burst and 1 DJ or 3x Triple Round Burst > switch to S/D and finish him/them off.

 

If im already in the middle of a melee fight i stealth and pre-cast Binding Shadows > Mark > Assassin's Sig wile in stealth and melt faces.

 

1 more thing, PRACTICE using Death's Retreat using your camera for mobility, once you get the hang of it (mouse speed and now much to turn) you will change your mind about it! its really good! ;) in WvWvW i even use it for chasing instead of escaping xD