Trailblazer Scourge in Fractals?

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Ensign.2189" said:

> > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > @"Ensign.2189" said:

> > > Trailblazer costs a condi scourge < 8% DPS.

> >

> > This is flat out untrue, while it can be debated that scourge has the least to lose by dropping power because of the scaling of scepter, you cannot debate the loss in dps from "barbed precision" and "target the weak." I think you'll find the dps loss to be closer to 20% overall, but that's just my conservative estimate.

>

> You're right, those two traits are a big part of why you lose 8% DPS from swapping to Trailblazer - without them, you would lose less than 5%.

>

> Target the Weak is the biggest contributor. The 13% conversion on the extra 633 precision on Viper is worth 82 condition damage, which is slightly less than the bonus from stat infusions. This costs you about 2% DPS when swapping to Trailblazer.

>

> Barbed Precision matters a bit less. Viper's gear gives just over an extra 30% crit chance, which is an extra 10% chance to bleed per hit, or 0.6s of bleeding per hit on average. Scourge is a relatively slow attacker, maxing out around 2.5 hits per second with full buffs; multiply it through, and that marginal precision is worth between 1% and 1.5% of your DPS depending on rotation and assumptions.

>

> So together those two traits account for a bit over a 3% DPS difference between Viper and Trailblazer. The difference in power damage is under 5% of total DPS (your coefficients are poor), for a total of right around an 8% damage loss in practice (you make up a bit of the difference with a Corsair Focusing Crystal).

 

It's more than 8%. You are completely ignoring the power major which is always a good portion of your damage, even in a sinister build. Power account for 20% of the damage in pure sinister builds, even ones with bad coefficients. It accounts for even more in viper builds. You are either arguing from ignorance, or flat out lying.

 

The power contribution for reaper was even less, because of how reaper damage worked. For scourge, its arguable, but unless you are gonna post a dps log and breakdown of damage im gonna call BS. Because chances are you dont run a dps meter 100% of your play time like i do. And chances are you dont understand just how much damage is lost by removing power from a pve build. There is a reason condi builds were never meta before the removal of the condition cap, and sinister stats were added.

 

 

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > I have Dire/Trailblazer combo also from WvW and i only play PUGs in Fractals.

> > > > >

> > > > > I play Mirage so power and precision aren't all that important and the extra toughness will make you aggro more. As a mirage, i can deal with that and it helps the team too as everyone and their mother is running glass cannon zerker or viper builds and die in 1 hit in T3. Having the bosses target me instead of them means less me running around trying to rez people and more DPS.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't know how important power and precision is to a Scourge but if you can live without it, Ttailblazer's is fine for Fractals.

> > > > >

> > > > > And as others already said, knowing your class and mechanics is more important than gear. You can't DPS if you're downed. :wink:

> > > >

> > > > This is faulty logic. On my condi scourge i can die halfway through a fight and still have more total dps than you simply because of the massive dps loss you take.

> > > >

> > > > T3 is a bad example of anything. Half the people their are not good or just grinding their way to teir 4. The good players are NOT in t3, so why would you bother to mention dying in 1 hit? They're bad. Simple explanation.

> > > >

> > > > As for toughness aggro. Generally doesn't exist outside of raids. Different mobs in the game have a plethora of different aggro mechanics, and the least common one is toughness. Assuming they are all equal in distribution, toughness is 1 of 8 possible aggro generators. Meaning, the chances are your toughness doesn't matter at all for aggro, since its more likely that you are being aggroed due to range, or closeness.

> > > >

> > > > Power and precision are huge for mirage. thats why they run vipers and renegade runes, instead of viper and krait or something similar. Thats why phantasm mesmer maxes out on crit chance in some builds. Knowledge of how phantasms and clones work, should not be something a necro main has to explain to you.

> > > >

> > > > You sound very ignorant on how builds benefit from certain stats.

> > >

> > > Then don't take my advice. You don't have to be a kitten about it. OP asked a question and I'm just telling my experiences with running trailblazer's. Vipers isn't the only stat combo for condi builds and trailblazer's works fine for mirage.

> > >

> > > Run viper's like everyone else then, who cares?

> >

> > How about you stop lying about the stats combo and how stats effect builds first? I wouldn't need to correct you bad advice if you did your own research. Blame yourself for speaking out of ignorance, not me, for pointing it out.

> >

> > Obviously the OP cares, since ya know, he asked the question.

>

> Oh, now i'm pruposefully malicious? Great job twisting my words and intentions. I hope you're happy with yourself.

>

 

Unless your assumption is that lying is always purposefully malicious (which for the record is false). Then this is a blatant strawman, which is in fact malicious.

 

I don't care for your intentions, a lie is still a lie. And you are in no position to call me names for pointing that out.

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Ensign.2189" said:

> > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > @"Ensign.2189" said:

> > > Trailblazer costs a condi scourge < 8% DPS.

> >

> > This is flat out untrue, while it can be debated that scourge has the least to lose by dropping power because of the scaling of scepter, you cannot debate the loss in dps from "barbed precision" and "target the weak." I think you'll find the dps loss to be closer to 20% overall, but that's just my conservative estimate.

>

> You're right, those two traits are a big part of why you lose 8% DPS from swapping to Trailblazer - without them, you would lose less than 5%.

>

> Target the Weak is the biggest contributor. The 13% conversion on the extra 633 precision on Viper is worth 82 condition damage, which is slightly less than the bonus from stat infusions. This costs you about 2% DPS when swapping to Trailblazer.

>

> Barbed Precision matters a bit less. Viper's gear gives just over an extra 30% crit chance, which is an extra 10% chance to bleed per hit, or 0.6s of bleeding per hit on average. Scourge is a relatively slow attacker, maxing out around 2.5 hits per second with full buffs; multiply it through, and that marginal precision is worth between 1% and 1.5% of your DPS depending on rotation and assumptions.

>

> So together those two traits account for a bit over a 3% DPS difference between Viper and Trailblazer. The difference in power damage is under 5% of total DPS (your coefficients are poor), for a total of right around an 8% damage loss in practice (you make up a bit of the difference with a Corsair Focusing Crystal).

 

I just did my own research on it to figure it out because tbh what you're saying just sounds so ludicrous, and you were just so adamant about it. Well yeah actually you're totally right, I was wrong. Straight Condi damage accounts for 87.35% of the total DPS on the golem. which is just a little over 12%. I'm referencing farbstoffs 30.4k viper's (renegade) benchmark. I cant find a comparable trailblazer's benchmark but that is honestly enough for me to change my mind on it. However I wonder how that contribution changes in fractals where we see a lot of adds or bosses with phases. For those do the good necromancers re-trait from scourge to reaper (where the dps difference would be far greater)?

 

I would still be an advocate for vipers in fractals despite all of that, some things that necro already has more than enough of is survivability and a bad reputation amongst good players, there isn't really any need to add to either of those by hindering yourself.

 

[Ensign.2189]

> @"Zlater.6789" said:

 

> I just did my own research on it to figure it out because tbh what you're saying just sounds so ludicrous

 

It *does* sound ludicrous, doesn't it? Especially with the way a lot of the community talks about how critical it is to run full zerk, git gud, etc. But when you math out the builds it can be pretty shocking how little damage you give up for substantial amounts of durability.

 

Check out the trade-off on Carrion Firebrand if you want your mind blown.

 

 

> However I wonder how that contribution changes in fractals where we see a lot of adds or bosses with phases. For those do the good necromancers re-trait from scourge to reaper (where the dps difference would be far greater)?

 

When you see lots of adds Epidemic carries the day, which has no strike component (no power or barbed precision). So when it comes to adds trailblazer is basically identical to viper.

 

If you re-spec to reaper, you actually lose even less from trailblazer (50% extra crit chance from vulnerability will cap your crit chance with 0 bonus precision). I haven't mathed it in a while but am told full trailblazer is a 5.8% DPS loss over viper on reaper.

 

The only place I have really felt the need to chance spec is 100 CM, as front loaded damage really makes a big difference there and scourge does not ramp quickly. If you're speed running you probably don't want a necro anyway.

 

> I would still be an advocate for vipers in fractals despite all of that, some things that necro already has more than enough of is survivability and a bad reputation amongst good players, there isn't really any need to add to either of those by hindering yourself.

 

Would also add that if you plan on raiding at all you'll want viper gear, as you'll be forced to tank in trailblazer and that is really niche (though better than you probably think). Trailblazer gear is really expensive, and unless you're already pretty rich that's a big investment for a character that's only really good for non-CM T4 fractals (PvE-wise - it is great in WvW).

 

But the concept is still pretty relevant for a lot of classes, especially naturally squishy ones - most players really, really should be using a good chunk of carrion gear on Firebrand.

[narcx.3570]

> @"OutOfOrder.3719" said:

> I'm currently building a Scourge with full trailblazer armor and trinkets for WvW. What I was hoping to find out whether this would be a strong build for higher tier Fractals as well?

>

> I already know that the Viper's armor is preferred for raids, but was still curious to find out how useful trailblazer armor would be in fractals.

>

> I would imagine the extra toughness and vitality would make the necro targeted more frequently, but help the party composition overall.

>

 

Your Toughness has only a very small impact on a mob's threat table in fractals... It'd just be for your own survivability. If you need it to stay alive, it's whatever... Most people don't ask for gear checks in fractal pugs and a living TB Scourge is better than a dead Vipers one.

 

That said, you should still work on a Viper's set because once you get better at avoiding damage and doing mechanics you'll probably end up wishing you had one. Plus raids. And also runes. I doubt you want to use Renegade runes in WvW? Or maybe you do... I dunno.

[Knox.8962]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"OutOfOrder.3719" said:

> > I'm currently building a Scourge with full trailblazer armor and trinkets for WvW. What I was hoping to find out whether this would be a strong build for higher tier Fractals as well?

> >

> > I already know that the Viper's armor is preferred for raids, but was still curious to find out how useful trailblazer armor would be in fractals.

> >

> > I would imagine the extra toughness and vitality would make the necro targeted more frequently, but help the party composition overall.

> >

>

> ... also runes. I doubt you want to use Renegade runes in WvW? Or maybe you do... I dunno.

As it turns out, Trailblazer + Undead is essentially equal in damage to Trailblazer + Renegade. I'm not sure that Undead is still what you want to go with in WvW, but it at least gives even more survivability while producing the same level of damage.

 

 

[OutOfOrder.3719]

I'm now running undead runes, with trailblazer gear.

 

But it definitely helps having the viper trinkets.

 

I'm currently only doing tier 2 fractals, but the Trail blazer armor has been great overall. However, that doesn't mean this is viable for t4 Fractals.

 

I may just switch to renegade runes so that I will not lose out on condition damage when I exchange trailblazer trinkets for Viper trinkets.

 

Can't go wrong with some viper's gear as opposed to 100% trailblazer armor and trinkets :)

 

 

[Sublimatio.6981]

> Trailblazer scourge in fractals?

 

# **NO!**