ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted December 20, 2017 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 20, 2017 Hey folks, We have some matchmaking enhancements we're going to turn on in unranked today around 3PM PST. This is different than the previous experiment where we changed the max skill rating range. We don't expect any changes to queue times with these enhancements and the vast majority of players actually shouldn't notice much difference. We identified some cases where the matchmaker was not correctly balancing teams by skill rating. This was rare, less than 5% of matches. But this change drastically reduces this occurrence. This doesn't mean that you will not see players of different tiers in your match. Our change just ensures that both teams have a very similar average skill rating. If everything goes well, we'll likely turn this on ranked at the start of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Nice to see you actively experimenting. I look forward to trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Foretelling the future: People would still hate matchmaking because the core reason of it being bad wasn't fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > Foretelling the future: > People would still hate matchmaking because the core reason of it being bad wasn't fixed. More like: People will still hate matchmaking because human psychology leads people to believe that they win games because they are good at the game and lose them because they got matched with bad teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan.9035 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I had few of those 5% matches where obviously the skills are different, result in 500-50 or so. But more often than not you see similarly skilled players with one or two bad apples that resulted in snowballs and defeat teams at 200 or 300. Such is the nature of conquest, and it hard to expect much in MMR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpal.1497 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Have you guys considered binning the matchmaking? The complexity it adds to the system on the backend, versus the universal hate of the system on players' end... what is the benefit over random matchups again? with perhaps >50% of the pvp player base on scourge, yes a random matchup would highlight the balance problem, but then it's also long past time to introduce a cap on classes per team, and nuke the class switching during warmup. Even team fortress in ~1998 had server console variables to restrict e.g. 2 snipers per team, 4 soldiers per team, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted December 20, 2017 Author ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 20, 2017 This is live as of about 10 minutes ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted December 20, 2017 Author ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 20, 2017 > @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said: > I had few of those 5% matches where obviously the skills are different, result in 500-50 or so. But more often than not you see similarly skilled players with one or two bad apples that resulted in snowballs and defeat teams at 200 or 300. Such is the nature of conquest, and it hard to expect much in MMR... Yeah, matchmaking on its own will never stop matches from snowballing. Snowballing is the result of a lot of different factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted December 20, 2017 Author ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 20, 2017 > @"Milan.9035" said: > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufo.3716 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. So why do I continually see games where one team has two of one class and the other has 2 of another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Rufo.3716" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. > > So why do I continually see games where one team has two of one class and the other has 2 of another? You mean those games where you have 2 warriors, 2 thieves and a mes and you're against 2 scourges, 2 firebrands and a druid? They happen quite a bit, other day I had this comp too, lucky I was on the right side :trollface: ![](https://i.imgur.com/yZ6RGCR.jpg "") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted December 21, 2017 Author ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Rufo.3716" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. > > So why do I continually see games where one team has two of one class and the other has 2 of another? This is a feature of our enhancements. The old matchmaker tried to do this to some degree, but we're now doing this in a much more strict way. Though, I shouldn't have said "never" in my last post. If 2 scourges queue together, there is still a chance they go up against a team with no scourges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossun.2046 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Remember to have the Matchmaker favor me and I'll have Santa drop $5 into your Christmas sock. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 skill rating doesnt matter i get my face face melted by 1k achi scourges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.32 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime. ![](https://i.imgur.com/Hcv9ynJ.jpg "") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. At least there's an acknowledgement that Scourges decide matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217" said: > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. > > Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime. Matchmaker doesn't stop people from swapping after loading in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted December 21, 2017 Author ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217" said: > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. > > Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime. > > ![](https://i.imgur.com/Hcv9ynJ.jpg "") If this was on unranked, we'll take a look at the match and see what happened. People could have swapped, or that part of the new matchmaker may not be working as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 If anything, matches have been worse for me. I honestly didn't think that was likely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.32 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217" said: > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > > > > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. > > > > Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime. > > > > ![](https://i.imgur.com/Hcv9ynJ.jpg "") > > If this was on unranked, we'll take a look at the match and see what happened. People could have swapped, or that part of the new matchmaker may not be working as expected. the picture does clearly show 'Ranked Arena' and 'League' ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > > Foretelling the future: > > People would still hate matchmaking because the core reason of it being bad wasn't fixed. > More like: People will still hate matchmaking because human psychology leads people to believe that they win games because they are good at the game and lose them because they got matched with bad teammates. > More like: You're not even aware of a main reason why humans hate games where team drags them down and how to fix it that problem. Hint for clueless you - Read my old posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukio blaster.9082 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > If everything goes well, we'll likely turn this on ranked at the start of next season. Any algorithm you make it will always be problems with it, for the only reason that a good algorithm needs a lot of available choices or in our case players .the PVP community isn't that big, so before doing anything merge PVP for EU and NA and CHINA the PVP gonna be much greater and tournaments a lot more intense no need to ESL after that . and just the simplest algorithm for match making will be fine then. hope i can see this one day in a separated client .lets take GW2 PVP to the next LVL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > @"Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217" said: > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > @"Milan.9035" said: > > > > > Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating. > > > > > > > > > > Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong. > > > > > > > > The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are. > > > > > > Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime. > > > > > > ![](https://i.imgur.com/Hcv9ynJ.jpg "") > > > > If this was on unranked, we'll take a look at the match and see what happened. People could have swapped, or that part of the new matchmaker may not be working as expected. > > the picture does clearly show 'Ranked Arena' and 'League' ;) > Then, maybe you should have read on the original post that those changes happened in UNRANKED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpal.1497 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > Then, maybe you should have read on the original post that those changes happened in UNRANKED. The point is probably that Ranked is to remain insufferable dogbarf while they arbitrarily wait to fix things during offseason (but ofc if you have an expansion to release in the middle of a season, go for it!). The bit about 2 scourges teaming up and bypassing the class balance handicap is rather funny, so now that bit of knowledge is in the wild until Feb or March or whenever the next season begins, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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