OP Updated: Please remove 'global' cooldown on Instrument notes (why is the cooldown 'global'?)

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

**TL;DR:** If not to remove cooldown completely on instrument notes, like the GW2 musician community has long wished for, then make the cooldown 'local' and _not_ 'global' (as explained in my initial comments below).

 

That would _still_ combat some of the 'annoyance' factor players have argued in the past, meaning those particular low, mid, or high notes can only be pressed a certain number of times themselves until they go on cooldown, and even at that point, the instruments are _still_ not be 100% unlocked. Other than no accidentals, that solution, in conjunction with setting everyone's 'Player Instrument Volume' to 2-5% (to combat the 'annoyance' factor) _will_ solve 90% of the problem with the in-game instruments.

 

**We are NOT asking you**, **Anet**, **to unlock the instruments to such degree where thousands of notes can be played per second** in the event someone decided to use such a script to troll, to annoy other players, or to possibly crash an entire Map.

 

**As exampled for someone in the comments**, I cannot even play the chords to something simple as Cowboy Bebop - Piano Bar without cooldowns kicking in, or in another part of that track, I cannot quickly alternate between two different single notes on two different octaves repeatedly for a short time (at 1:04 or at 2:27) without cooldowns kicking in.

 

I translated the entire track for the in-game Harp, yet I cannot play certain parts of it. The cooldowns on notes are clearly _too_ strict.

 

**Here, take a listen to the tempo in certain parts I would like Anet to let us play at _without_ such strict cooldowns:**

 

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 

**My initial comments:**

 

Why is the cooldown on _every_ Major note on _every_ instrument 'global'? To use the Harp as an example, if _any_ of the lowest Major notes: C D E F G A B C on the first octave go on cooldown, so do _any_ of the C D E F G A B C Major notes on the second and third octaves, meaning each note does _not_ have its own cooldown. The cooldown is shared 'globally'.

 

**Note:** The Harp, Lute, and Bass start at C Major from lowest to highest. Every other instrument starts at E Major from lowest to highest, except the Choir Bell that starts/ends at D Major.

 

That is the silliest limitation. No cooldown on Skills is OP; no cooldown on instrument notes is not. The above stated scenario is like using Skill 1 on a Greatsword that then goes on cooldown, only to weapon swap and find Skill 1 on your Sword is also on cooldown.

 

The reason I compare weapon swapping between two different weapons to octave changing between different octaves on _any_ of the in-game instruments is because octave changing is really no different than weapon swapping. Weapon swapping gives you access to different skills; octave changing gives you access to different notes.

 

**Even if the Cooldown limitation _is_ intended** to prevent annoying other players (the _only_ argument I can think of to _not_ fix this issue), then turn off all players' 'Player instrument Volume' by default in the Sound Options, that or put the volume at 2 or 5% by default for every player (audible just enough to hear the instruments play, and to hear them working).

 

It is obvious the cooldown limitation was purposely implemented since different instruments have worse cooldowns than others. The game itself is _not_ limiting us; it is you, the devs (those who were in charge of coding the instruments), who limited our capabilities. Other than the possible aforementioned argument, why?

 

**It is bad enough** we do not have access to Sharps and Flats, and most of us in the GW2 musician community can get around those by transposing music and/or utilizing clever music theory tricks, **but for the love of music**, please remove 'global' cooldown on instrument notes. 'Localize' the cooldowns.

 

Had you _not_ put such strict limitations on the instruments in the first place, I guarantee instrument sales would have went very well. People globally love music. That is a fact. And even if you lessened the limitation on the instruments now, I _still_ guarantee more instruments _will_ sell, and the whole GW2 musician community will thank you for it.

 

**P.S.** For those of you who do not think this is a big deal, let me introduce you to GW2's largest musician community filled with thousands (_not_ hundreds) of compositions: http://gw2mb.com/archive.php The _only_ reason why our complaints have died down because our many complains about the in-game instruments met with blind eyes. I, however, will _not_ give up. I have single-handedly tabbed 250+ compositions under username, Valdrimari, and I take music seriously. It is what I play in-game; it is what I play in real life.

 

I joined the music site because players in-game questioned my playing, despite my change-ups, tempo change, etc. so I figured why not? It does me no good keeping all my tab to myself, anyway, when I can share them with the GW2 community.

 

Thank you.

[Loosmaster.8263]

Why the hell does it have a cool down to begin with. That utterly hinders any individuality.

[Endless Soul.5178]

I'm not a musician in real life, but I do have a lute in game and I think this is one of the most legitimate complaints of GW2. :+1:

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> Why the hell does it have a cool down to begin with. That utterly hinders any individuality.

 

At least twice every year I bring that question up, to which _none_ of the developers who were in charge of coding the instruments has commented, and until one of the developers _does_ provide a legit explanation regarding why there is a cooldown in the first place, me and the rest of the GW2 musician community is going to bring this up, even if we have to keep complaining about it for another 4-5 years, or until the game completely dies.

 

It is one thing if every note had its own cooldown, but a 'globally' shared cooldown is completely unacceptable. For the longest time, me and my musician friends thought each note had its own cooldown.

 

We at least want the cooldown gone, and if not completely gone, at least make it where each note has its _own_ cooldown!

[brom balagon.4903]

please remove :)

[Lord Daedhelor.5431]

I'd rather have them add the accidentals first.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Lord Daedhelor.5431" said:

> I'd rather have them add the accidentals first.

 

Adding accidentals first makes no sense. What good is adding accidentals first if Anet does not remove the cooldown first, or make it where each note has its own cooldown? It would be a dream if they fixed the cooldown issue _and_ added accidentals, but those two fixes implemented together is less likely to happen.

 

If they add accidentals first without removing the cooldown issue first (with whatever system they implement to replace the Skill Bar with a more Piano-like UI), it will be _much_ worse when playing chords with accidentals _and_ majors together. The cooldown is bad enough with just playing majors together to make up a chord, and I have tabbed enough music to know that.

 

With that being said, removing the cooldown on notes is more likely to happen, anyway, since adding accidentals will require Anets devs to design a new UI for a piano-like setup, and Anet is _not_ going to do any more work than they have to (a proven fact, since the cooldown issue alone has still _not_ been addressed).

[Lunarlife.5128]

The spam would/could be annoying and having to change sound settings for anothers actions is silly.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Lunarlife.5128" said:

> The spam would/could be annoying and having to change sound settings for anothers actions is silly.

 

It is not like players do not change volumes already. That is _no_ good excuse to not fix the issue, because not fixing the issue makes those who tab music like me suffer because our capabilities have been limited.

 

Furthermore, even without the cooldown on instrument notes, anyone with an instrument can _still_ annoy other players around them by continuously hitting the highest C Major (either by itself or together with other high notes) on the Bass Guitar, the Harp, or worse, the Horn. Therefore, the 'annoyance' argument at this point is weak. In fact, it was never a strong argument to begin with.

 

The fix for the 'annoyance' issue is either setting everyone's 'Player Instrument Volume' to 5% by default (or 2%, audible just enough to hear the instruments play and to hear them working), OR turn off everybody's 'Player Instrument Volume' by default. The musician community has been saying that for a while now.

 

Those are the two solutions, and if I had to choose one, it would be for Anet to set everyone's 'Player Instrument Volume' to 2 or 5%, and it only takes seconds to change it permanently to whatever volume you want after that.

[Cakemeister.5792]

Yes,. the spam would be annoying, I think a very short delay would work, say 10 milliseconds.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Cakemeister.5792" said:

> Yes,. the spam would be annoying, I think a very short delay would work, say 10 milliseconds.

 

Not if Anet (after getting rid of cooldowns on notes) sets everyone's 'Player Instrument Volume' to 2-5% (or turns it off by default, but I would rather 2-5% so players do not think the instruments are broken).

 

How many times must the counterargument be reiterated? Not only that (as detailed in my other comment I just posted), players who own instruments can _still_ very easily annoy other players even _with_ cooldowns on the Harp, the Bass, or worse, the Horn. So what do annoyed players do at that point? They go into their Sound Options Window to see if an option exists to turn down Instrument Volume, and most players at this point know the Instrument Volume option exists exists, anyway.

 

With all the above said in mind, the biggest issue here is the fact every notes' cooldown is 'globally' shared when the cooldown should be 'local' like it is on regular Skills. My musician friends and I have only just recently discovered the cooldowns being 'global'. We always thought each note, at the very least, had its own cooldown.

 

Even if Anet _did_ keep the cooldown around for instruments notes, and they made it where each note had its own cooldown, that would _still_ combat some of the 'annoyance' factor you argued, meaning those particular low, mid or high notes can only be pressed a certain number of times themselves until they go on cooldown, and even at that point, the instruments are _still_ not be 100% unlocked (but it would still help us in the musician community).

 

**Again,** having a cooldown is one thing, but a 'global' cooldown on instrument notes is ridiculous. That is what this thread is mainly about, for each note have its own cooldown, if not to remove the cooldown completely.

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> Why the hell does it have a cool down to begin with. That utterly hinders any individuality.

 

Because you could just hold your autoclick button down and spam thousands of sounds in seconds. It caused map crashes and sounded awful.

[Incurve Giidis.7829]

How plausible would it be to add MIDI support? + a few octaves alongside, if at all possible?

Or even something as simple as dedicating a keyboard bind for every note individually?

 

Because the game could please a very niche audience with a proper musical feature like this, i'd love to see this taken beyond just a gem store gimmick that's a very limited and inconvenient musical tool.

 

[Thanathos.2063]

What about a map, or instance, that's specifically designed for making music?

Like, if it's true that those cooldowns are in place to protect the average joe crafting in LA from getting annoyed by some musicians, would it be an ok solution to give the musicians a dedicated place to make music or even give concerts, where all cooldowns are removed because those who don't like to get annoyed won't even join?

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Aktium.9506" said:

> > @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> > Why the hell does it have a cool down to begin with. That utterly hinders any individuality.

>

> Because you could just hold your autoclick button down and spam thousands of sounds in seconds. It caused map crashes and sounded awful.

 

I had to leave to work earlier as of my most previous comment before this one, so pardon my late reply.

 

If you read the **TL;DR** part of my OP (clearly you did not), you would see I specifically said, and I quote, "If not to get rid of cooldown entirely, then make it so 'each note' has its own cooldown." end of quote. What that means is there would _still_ be cooldowns, just not a 'global' cooldown like we have now. Therefore, spamming 'thousands' of notes per second would _not_ be possible.

 

**Again**, if nothing else, the restrictions limiting our capabilities in the musician community need to be 'lessened', yet not to the point, as you exampled, where players can spam thousands of notes a second. That is _not_ what I am suggesting at all.

 

**For example**, to get an idea of the tempo I would like to play at with chords at a fairly good speed, look up Cowboy Bebop - Piano Bar. That is not even a ridiculous fast piece of music, and yet I cannot play its chords without cooldowns kicking in. That to me is too much of a restriction.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Thanathos.2063" said:

> What about a map, or instance, that's specifically designed for making music?

> Like, if it's true that those cooldowns are in place to protect the average joe crafting in LA from getting annoyed by some musicians, would it be an ok solution to give the musicians a dedicated place to make music or even give concerts, where all cooldowns are removed because those who don't like to get annoyed won't even join?

 

That would be a terrible idea, notably because there would be freedom only in that Map and nowhere else. The awesome thing about playing the instruments in the first place is to play wherever you want, and those around you who do not like the music being played at all can simply turn off their 'Player Instrument Volume' like they do already, regardless if Anet gives us more freedom or not by making cooldowns on instrument notes 'local' instead of 'global' across all notes.

 

Furthermore, designing/implementing an entire Map dedicated to musicians would take _more_ work than to change a few numeric values in the game's code to 'lessen' the cooldown limitations on instrument notes.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"virgin suicide.6038" said:

> How plausible would it be to add MIDI support? + a few octaves alongside, if at all possible?

> Or even something as simple as dedicating a keyboard bind for every note individually?

>

> Because the game could please a very niche audience with a proper musical feature like this, i'd love to see this taken beyond just a gem store gimmick that's a very limited and inconvenient musical tool.

>

 

If I am not mistaken, Anet said they cannot implement MIDI support due to limitations in the engine the game runs on, unless somehow they made it work with the game using some third-party source (like other games do when their engine does not support certain features).

 

With that being said, since the GW2 musician community knows MIDI support will likely never happen, all we really want from Anet is for better playability. That is it. Get rid of the 'global' cooldown and we will be a lot better off. That will _not_ 100% unlock the instruments, but it will do.

[Rezzet.3614]

I would love to play me some Dragonforce songs

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> I would love to play me some Dragonforce songs

 

I actually _have_ half of Dragonforce - Through the FIre and Flames tabbed, yet only for the Bass using single notes without going on cooldown because no chords are used. I can tab the whole thing for the Harp, too, yet because the chords easily go on cooldown, I never bothered with it.

 

I tell you what, if Anet removes 'global' cooldown (the culprit of instrument playability issues), I _will_ publish a full, playable version of Through the Fire and Flames (including the ridiculous solo without Flats or Sharps) that only may, at the point, still require me to dumb down a few chords so cooldowns do not occur. Just look up my work at: http://gw2mb.com/archive.php under username: Valdrimari in the search box. I can very easily tab it.

 

I tabbed Richard Wagner's - Ride of the Valkyries in two octaves on the Bass (to prove a point not long ago), and I even tabbed Chrono Cross - Frozen Flame on the site with three versions: the original version at its fast tempo, a second version at a slightly faster tempo, and a third playable melancholy version at a slower tempo.

 

I not only tab the music I like, but I have proven being able to play it in-game as well. I can stop at any time, resume, change tempo, add glissando or utilize complex arpeggios wherever I want, skip to another part of a song, immediately play something else in the middle of any song, etc. I have been playing music probably longer than any of you guys in the comments have been alive for almost 30 years. I still work, but playing music and playing games is what I enjoy most during my downtime.

 

The more people who blow this thread up with support, the more likely something will be done about instrument playability issues, and the more music I can tab for players in the GW2 community. I have many unplayable requests up the wazoo I would like to finish next year in 2018, so please support.