Xstein.2187 Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > @"Kyon.9735" said: > > > > > Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced. > > > > And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class). > > > > > > > > My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build. > > > > > > Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are... > > Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get. > > > > Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most *definetly* flock to what is op. > > > > Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op. > > > > Wait what? > > Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on... Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op". You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previous posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToPNoP.2493 Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > @"Kyon.9735" said: > > > > > > Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced. > > > > > And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class). > > > > > > > > > > My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build. > > > > > > > > Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are... > > > Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get. > > > > > > Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most *definetly* flock to what is op. > > > > > > Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op. > > > > > > Wait what? > > > > Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on... > > Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op". > You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previou His post was about expense, the thread is about op. If you want to calculate for power, in my previous statement replace tb with zerker/marauder and perplexity for scholar. Anyway, these post go so far and stretch so wide as to confuse casual readers. The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 An average piece of cloth ascended armor (excluding chest) costs ~50g maybe less now that Damask is as cheap as it is. It’s much cheaper to craft a cheap insignia like Dire and restat it at the Mystic Forge. The fabled Lilys have dropped to about 8g a piece,making restating cost ~24g + another 2-3 for other mats. A month ago my calculation for a full ascended armor set on my Holosmith was ~340 gold. Learhers mind you are quite a bit more expensive than cloths. I don’t think 340g for a 6 piece set is that much when you can make an upward of 10g, and likely a whole lot more, an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xstein.2187 Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > @"Kyon.9735" said: > > > > > > > Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced. > > > > > > And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class). > > > > > > > > > > > > My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build. > > > > > > > > > > Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are... > > > > Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get. > > > > > > > > Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most *definetly* flock to what is op. > > > > > > > > Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op. > > > > > > > > Wait what? > > > > > > Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on... > > > > Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op". > > You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previou > > His post was about expense, the thread is about op. If you want to calculate for power, in my previous statement replace tb with zerker/marauder and perplexity for scholar. Anyway, these post go so far and stretch so wide as to confuse casual readers. The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."... > 1. His post was questioning weather mesmer roaming gear was expensive when all the replies before him started with power mirage. And no, this topic has nothing to do with what the original poster asked. 2. No kitten, everyone knows you can calculate price on other builds by switching out/in runes and armor types. I just think its funny that this post started on power and you used trailblazer in your cost calculations. Everyone knows trailblazer is a hell of a lot more expensive then zerk. And what? Since you mention thieves in your post, your saying thief roamers use gear that is soooo much cheaper than power mirage? 3. "The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."..." You made the claim, prove it. 2 times the attack you say. So, its exactly 2, not 1.5 or 1.3? Also kind of a vague sentence. Everyone knows that thief has god like sustain compared to a class that is only able to burst every 12 sec. If you question this, look up the dps of thieves compared to a power mesmer without phantasms (since they are shattered). 2 x the armor? How?, please explain. I thought they both usually use a mixture of marauders and zerker. Is there some kind of exclusive mesmer armor that I am not aware of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysdude.3824 Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 Thank you everyone for the great answers. I recieved what I asked for and alot more great info. This community rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToPNoP.2493 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kyon.9735" said: > > > > > > > > Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced. > > > > > > > And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are... > > > > > Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get. > > > > > > > > > > Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most *definetly* flock to what is op. > > > > > > > > > > Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op. > > > > > > > > > > Wait what? > > > > > > > > Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on... > > > > > > Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op". > > > You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previou > > > > His post was about expense, the thread is about op. If you want to calculate for power, in my previous statement replace tb with zerker/marauder and perplexity for scholar. Anyway, these post go so far and stretch so wide as to confuse casual readers. The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."... > > > 1. His post was questioning weather mesmer roaming gear was expensive when all the replies before him started with power mirage. And no, this topic has nothing to do with what the original poster asked. > 2. No kitten, everyone knows you can calculate price on other builds by switching out/in runes and armor types. I just think its funny that this post started on power and you used trailblazer in your cost calculations. Everyone knows trailblazer is a hell of a lot more expensive then zerk. And what? Since you mention thieves in your post, your saying thief roamers use gear that is soooo much cheaper than power mirage? > 3. "The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."..." > You made the claim, prove it. 2 times the attack you say. So, its exactly 2, not 1.5 or 1.3? Also kind of a vague sentence. Everyone knows that thief has god like sustain compared to a class that is only able to burst every 12 sec. If you question this, look up the dps of thieves compared to a power mesmer without phantasms (since they are shattered). 2 x the armor? How?, please explain. I thought they both usually use a mixture of marauders and zerker. Is there some kind of exclusive mesmer armor that I am not aware of? As I said earlier, mirage is a Mesmer spec so we are in the right place... The quote was from Grim, a prominent driver on mag. Maybe 3 weeks old. By the way, nice Mesmer avatar. Anyway, that made a nice ribbon. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xstein.2187 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > @"ToPNoP.2493" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kyon.9735" said: > > > > > > > > > Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced. > > > > > > > > And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are... > > > > > > Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most *definetly* flock to what is op. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait what? > > > > > > > > > > Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on... > > > > > > > > Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op". > > > > You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previou > > > > > > His post was about expense, the thread is about op. If you want to calculate for power, in my previous statement replace tb with zerker/marauder and perplexity for scholar. Anyway, these post go so far and stretch so wide as to confuse casual readers. The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."... > > > > > 1. His post was questioning weather mesmer roaming gear was expensive when all the replies before him started with power mirage. And no, this topic has nothing to do with what the original poster asked. > > 2. No kitten, everyone knows you can calculate price on other builds by switching out/in runes and armor types. I just think its funny that this post started on power and you used trailblazer in your cost calculations. Everyone knows trailblazer is a hell of a lot more expensive then zerk. And what? Since you mention thieves in your post, your saying thief roamers use gear that is soooo much cheaper than power mirage? > > 3. "The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."..." > > You made the claim, prove it. 2 times the attack you say. So, its exactly 2, not 1.5 or 1.3? Also kind of a vague sentence. Everyone knows that thief has god like sustain compared to a class that is only able to burst every 12 sec. If you question this, look up the dps of thieves compared to a power mesmer without phantasms (since they are shattered). 2 x the armor? How?, please explain. I thought they both usually use a mixture of marauders and zerker. Is there some kind of exclusive mesmer armor that I am not aware of? > > As I said earlier, mirage is a Mesmer spec so we are in the right place... The quote was from Grim, a prominent driver on mag. Maybe 3 weeks old. By the way, nice Mesmer avatar. Anyway, that made a nice ribbon. I'm out. Welp, as they say, if your argument is defeated, you can always just point at the opponents avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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