Rate the SHORTBOW on a scale of 10

[AEFA.9035]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

>

> >

> > The only ranged builds ahead of stance share soulbeast are staff weaver and scepter firebrand, I didn't count firebrand since a huge amount of that damage comes from tome of justice and the scepter it self is only really filler. Stance share soulbeast technically uses both short-bow and dagger/torch, however they have commented that pure short-bow is only slightly less damage.

>

> I don't know how the dps is on a dummy that doesn't attack nor moves, but SB would never out dps a weapon such as the mesmers scepter against a real person.

 

Thats questionable, cause scepters main damage is confusion which has lower scaling per second than other condition damage such as bleeding/poison.

 

**Bleeding formula**

(0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second at level 80.

 

**Confusion formula**

(0.035 * Condition Damage) + 10 damage per stack per second.

 

**Confusion formula if youre attacking**

 

(0.0625 * Condition Damage) + 49.5 damage per stack.

 

if were talking about just DPS on condition then bleeding/poison on a weapon would win and you dont even need to auto attack you would just run and wait for bleed/poison to DPS foe, then just wait for skill CD and repeat. I could be wrong, i dont know, definitely not attacking if you got confusion on you. LOL

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"AEFA.9035" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> >

> > >

> > > The only ranged builds ahead of stance share soulbeast are staff weaver and scepter firebrand, I didn't count firebrand since a huge amount of that damage comes from tome of justice and the scepter it self is only really filler. Stance share soulbeast technically uses both short-bow and dagger/torch, however they have commented that pure short-bow is only slightly less damage.

> >

> > I don't know how the dps is on a dummy that doesn't attack nor moves, but SB would never out dps a weapon such as the mesmers scepter against a real person.

>

> Thats questionable, cause scepters main damage is confusion which has lower scaling per second than other condition damage such as bleeding/poison.

>

> **Bleeding formula**

> (0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second at level 80.

>

> **Confusion formula**

> (0.035 * Condition Damage) + 10 damage per stack per second.

>

> **Confusion formula if youre attacking**

>

> (0.0625 * Condition Damage) + 49.5 damage per stack.

>

> if were talking about just DPS on condition then bleeding/poison on a weapon would win and you dont even need to auto attack you would just run and wait for bleed/poison to DPS foe, then just wait for skill CD and repeat. I could be wrong, i dont know, definitely not attacking if you got confusion on you. LOL

 

Well, against a mesmer, if you're not attacking when you have confusion on you, then you're never attacking.

[zalt.8937]

When i tire of zerk sniping I love to play core sb+sw/d evasive condi in pvp, if timed and kited right you'll outlast most and eventually they'll die to condis.

Idk if its the advantage of people never expecting any real threat from sb ranger, but i rarely die in games and usially end with a few top scores. Havent yet tried it in ranked, and i know some will argue unranked is just bad players. I am also aware that sb aint competetive in higher tiers etc, but its tons of fun when puging.

 

Sb sure needs some love tho in order to make it competetive

[Fluffball.8307]

> @"zalt.8937" said:

> When i tire of zerk sniping I love to play core sb+sw/d evasive condi in pvp, if timed and kited right you'll outlast most and eventually they'll die to condis.

> Idk if its the advantage of people never expecting any real threat from sb ranger, but i rarely die in games and usially end with a few top scores. Havent yet tried it in ranked, and i know some will argue unranked is just bad players. I am also aware that sb aint competetive in higher tiers etc, but its tons of fun when puging.

>

> Sb sure needs some love tho in order to make it competetive

 

Ironically, the extremely low threat level of SB gives it a mild boost in PvP. People focus on the players actually doing something and let you hit them from behind with crossfire and concussion shot. :p

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"Fluffball.8307" said:

> > @"zalt.8937" said:

> > When i tire of zerk sniping I love to play core sb+sw/d evasive condi in pvp, if timed and kited right you'll outlast most and eventually they'll die to condis.

> > Idk if its the advantage of people never expecting any real threat from sb ranger, but i rarely die in games and usially end with a few top scores. Havent yet tried it in ranked, and i know some will argue unranked is just bad players. I am also aware that sb aint competetive in higher tiers etc, but its tons of fun when puging.

> >

> > Sb sure needs some love tho in order to make it competetive

>

> Ironically, the extremely low threat level of SB gives it a mild boost in PvP. People focus on the players actually doing something and let you hit them from behind with crossfire and concussion shot. :p

 

yea but what if its 2 people? What are you gonna do with your 1-3sec of single target bleeding when a mesmer or nec can come and cover the whole point with every condition in the game? SB is useless.

[AEFA.9035]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > @"Fluffball.8307" said:

> > > @"zalt.8937" said:

> > > When i tire of zerk sniping I love to play core sb+sw/d evasive condi in pvp, if timed and kited right you'll outlast most and eventually they'll die to condis.

> > > Idk if its the advantage of people never expecting any real threat from sb ranger, but i rarely die in games and usially end with a few top scores. Havent yet tried it in ranked, and i know some will argue unranked is just bad players. I am also aware that sb aint competetive in higher tiers etc, but its tons of fun when puging.

> > >

> > > Sb sure needs some love tho in order to make it competetive

> >

> > Ironically, the extremely low threat level of SB gives it a mild boost in PvP. People focus on the players actually doing something and let you hit them from behind with crossfire and concussion shot. :p

>

> yea but what if its 2 people? What are you gonna do with your 1-3sec of single target bleeding when a mesmer or nec can come and cover the whole point with every condition in the game? SB is useless.

 

SB is single target (unless traited) of course its useless against Cancer classes like necro scourge. Its exactly a counter to condi ranger.

 

I think to utilize SB to its full potential and sadly the most effective way is just by flanking IMO. With Soulbeast you can maximize your core condition like poison/bleed up to 25 stacks within 5 seconds provided youre using Bristleback, utilities vulture and sharpening stone.

[malisivo.5264]

Woah, do you all even use SB? (You all probably don't, which is why you all are rating it pretty low.) Yes, it doesn't do as much damage as we'd like, but it's a great weapon when traited right. Sharpening stone + Hidden barbs + Light on your feet makes you an annoying opponent. Those ten precious ticks of sharpening stone can stack the bleeding pretty high. And while it can be cleansed, you can keep the auto going because of the low casting time for it. It's a fast weapon, the closest to YOUR reaction time. LB has great damage, but that's only if you are pew-pewing from afar and letting your pet tank for you.

 

I agree with fluffball. If SB is given a damage buff, it can be a formidable condi weapon. To answer your question, OP, I'd rate SB a 2/10 in PVP because in comparison to other weapons that we can use to defeat enemies (not to kite away or survive, mind you), it lacks the damage to down an opponent.

 

However, I'd rate it an 8.75/10 (because 8.5 doesn't seem right in my opinion) in PVE. Have you seen the CC on that thing? SB has kept me alive in boss fights and I can use it (not alone, but with my other weapon set, because of the lack of damage) to solo champions. It's a weapon used for survival and man, do I like surviving.

[Spartyr.6795]

> @"AEFA.9035" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > @"Fluffball.8307" said:

> > > > @"zalt.8937" said:

> > > > When i tire of zerk sniping I love to play core sb+sw/d evasive condi in pvp, if timed and kited right you'll outlast most and eventually they'll die to condis.

> > > > Idk if its the advantage of people never expecting any real threat from sb ranger, but i rarely die in games and usially end with a few top scores. Havent yet tried it in ranked, and i know some will argue unranked is just bad players. I am also aware that sb aint competetive in higher tiers etc, but its tons of fun when puging.

> > > >

> > > > Sb sure needs some love tho in order to make it competetive

> > >

> > > Ironically, the extremely low threat level of SB gives it a mild boost in PvP. People focus on the players actually doing something and let you hit them from behind with crossfire and concussion shot. :p

> >

> > yea but what if its 2 people? What are you gonna do with your 1-3sec of single target bleeding when a mesmer or nec can come and cover the whole point with every condition in the game? SB is useless.

>

> SB is single target (unless traited) of course its useless against Cancer classes like necro scourge. Its exactly a counter to condi ranger.

>

> I think to utilize SB to its full potential and sadly the most effective way is just by flanking IMO. With Soulbeast you can maximize your core condition like poison/bleed up to 25 stacks within 5 seconds provided youre using Bristleback, utilities vulture and sharpening stone.

 

Using sharpening stone and vulture stance leaves you a bit on the defenseless side. You've only got one more spot. To me, that's the main problem with the weapon. On it's own it doesn't do enough damage in PvP so you need your priceless utility skill to supplement the damage.

 

I've had some moderate success in unranked using a stunlock build so my condi's have time to tick before they are cleared. BUT, I needed to run traps and trapper runes, and use stealth for survivability and in general I feel less effective than with Longbow. 3/10 PvP for me.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"malisivo.5264" said:

> Woah, do you all even use SB? (You all probably don't, which is why you all are rating it pretty low.) Yes, it doesn't do as much damage as we'd like, but it's a great weapon when traited right. Sharpening stone + Hidden barbs + Light on your feet makes you an annoying opponent. Those ten precious ticks of sharpening stone can stack the bleeding pretty high. And while it can be cleansed, you can keep the auto going because of the low casting time for it. It's a fast weapon, the closest to YOUR reaction time. LB has great damage, but that's only if you are pew-pewing from afar and letting your pet tank for you.

>

> I agree with fluffball. If SB is given a damage buff, it can be a formidable condi weapon. To answer your question, OP, I'd rate SB a 2/10 in PVP because in comparison to other weapons that we can use to defeat enemies (not to kite away or survive, mind you), it lacks the damage to down an opponent.

>

> However, I'd rate it an 8.75/10 (because 8.5 doesn't seem right in my opinion) in PVE. Have you seen the CC on that thing? SB has kept me alive in boss fights and I can use it (not alone, but with my other weapon set, because of the lack of damage) to solo champions. It's a weapon used for survival and man, do I like surviving.

 

I have been forcing myself to use it since forever. Not because i like it, but because you have access to perma swiftness which helps for roaming in wvw and even tho axe/dagger is way better at condi bursting, axe feels too slow and clucky for my taste. So no, i'm not the one who've never used the damn thing.

[AEFA.9035]

> @"Spartyr.6795" said:

> > @"AEFA.9035" said:

> > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > > @"Fluffball.8307" said:

> > > > > @"zalt.8937" said:

> > > > > When i tire of zerk sniping I love to play core sb+sw/d evasive condi in pvp, if timed and kited right you'll outlast most and eventually they'll die to condis.

> > > > > Idk if its the advantage of people never expecting any real threat from sb ranger, but i rarely die in games and usially end with a few top scores. Havent yet tried it in ranked, and i know some will argue unranked is just bad players. I am also aware that sb aint competetive in higher tiers etc, but its tons of fun when puging.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sb sure needs some love tho in order to make it competetive

> > > >

> > > > Ironically, the extremely low threat level of SB gives it a mild boost in PvP. People focus on the players actually doing something and let you hit them from behind with crossfire and concussion shot. :p

> > >

> > > yea but what if its 2 people? What are you gonna do with your 1-3sec of single target bleeding when a mesmer or nec can come and cover the whole point with every condition in the game? SB is useless.

> >

> > SB is single target (unless traited) of course its useless against Cancer classes like necro scourge. Its exactly a counter to condi ranger.

> >

> > I think to utilize SB to its full potential and sadly the most effective way is just by flanking IMO. With Soulbeast you can maximize your core condition like poison/bleed up to 25 stacks within 5 seconds provided youre using Bristleback, utilities vulture and sharpening stone.

>

> Using sharpening stone and vulture stance leaves you a bit on the defenseless side. You've only got one more spot. To me, that's the main problem with the weapon. On it's own it doesn't do enough damage in PvP so you need your priceless utility skill to supplement the damage.

>

> I've had some moderate success in unranked using a stunlock build so my condi's have time to tick before they are cleared. BUT, I needed to run traps and trapper runes, and use stealth for survivability and in general I feel less effective than with Longbow. 3/10 PvP for me.

 

I agree with you on using up utilities for SB to be effective while thieves on the other hand can hand their utility bar full of stun breaks or condi cleanse no need for damage boosts.

 

Trap is fun but it's on a pretty long cool down. If quick draw could be rework to affect utilities then that would be different. I feel like our damage should be compensated by our pets or traits\ specializations not by utilities.

[Prophet.1584]

> @"Fluffball.8307" said:

> > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > @"Fluffball.8307" said:

> > > I get annoyed at the dumb "needs a complete rework" rehashes, what exactly do you want a complete rework of? Should we replace the daze with a stun?

> > >

> > > The skills on the weapon are excellent. It needs more damage.

> >

> > the skills?

> >

> > That kitten sucks. The weapon sucks.

> >

> > yes rework all that kitten. It's all bad.

>

> The skills are pretty comparable to LB, only LB has damage. Give SB enough damage to kill someone and people will start using it.

 

i'd like to see SB remain a condi weapon, it's found its niche there so i'd rather not see any flat damage increases but instead have it apply more condi's. increase the stacks and durations on all the SB condi's. no need to add burning if that where to happen. SB4 is probably the only skill i find really lackluster and could be changed to something different completely. Adding burning to everything condi just gives in to the power creep and invites new nerfs, improve poison master instead.

[KeoLegend.5132]

i hate having to worry about positioning while using the SB... and i also hate how i keep firing but feel that im doing no damage at all.

But i might be a bit biased because i hate condi and SB isn't a power weapon

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"KeoLegend.5132" said:

> i hate having to worry about positioning while using the SB... and i also hate how i keep firing but feel that im doing no damage at all.

> But i might be a bit biased because i hate condi and SB isn't a power weapon

 

Positioning mechanic is stupid. Like, why would you run SB and hope for good positioning to apply 3sec of bleeding, when other condi classes/builds don't require any postitioning and apply a metric ton more conditions AND more powerful conditions? Oh and they're also mostly aoe, not like SB. In pvp SB offers nothing, its useless. In pve, its just a spammy weapon that you use while your traps/axe+torch is on a CD. Amazes me how some people consider this weak trash a 8/10 for PVE when your main damage is nowhere near coming from the SB itself lol.

[KeoLegend.5132]

not including how boring and "desperate" is playing with condi Ranger (Elites included)

I feel so desperate and worried to hit from the side, while spamming skills and traps fast enough to stack a bit before it runs over, while other classes can just press a couple buttons in their face and its k

[malisivo.5264]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> I have been forcing myself to use it since forever. Not because i like it, but because you have access to perma swiftness which helps for roaming in wvw and even tho axe/dagger is way better at condi bursting, axe feels too slow and clucky for my taste. So no, i'm not the one who've never used the kitten thing.

 

I meant those who were giving it really low ratings. I understand SB isn't a staple weapon; LB is pretty much the most used Ranger weapon at the moment. I'm just saying that those who are giving SB the low rating is likely basing their rating off of "losing" with it or not being able to down an opponent. The weapon is meant to be used for survival, to kite and cc opponents. It would be great if it had a (condition) damage boost. AMAZING, in fact! Imagine how using a SB (with that damage boost) could turn the tide of a single match. SB is annoying enough to opponents who want to one-shot you. Imagine if you could defeat them with it.

 

 

[AEFA.9035]

> @"malisivo.5264" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > I have been forcing myself to use it since forever. Not because i like it, but because you have access to perma swiftness which helps for roaming in wvw and even tho axe/dagger is way better at condi bursting, axe feels too slow and clucky for my taste. So no, i'm not the one who've never used the kitten thing.

>

> I meant those who were giving it really low ratings. I understand SB isn't a staple weapon; LB is pretty much the most used Ranger weapon at the moment. I'm just saying that those who are giving SB the low rating is likely basing their rating off of "losing" with it or not being able to down an opponent. The weapon is meant to be used for survival, to kite and cc opponents. It would be great if it had a (condition) damage boost. AMAZING, in fact! Imagine how using a SB (with that damage boost) could turn the tide of a single match. SB is annoying enough to opponents who want to one-shot you. Imagine if you could defeat them with it.

>

>

 

most players who play Ranger seems to have the impression that SB will devour an enemy like lets say a dagger/pistol thief or a sword mesmer/ GS mesmer with shatter or mirage mesmer condi. ANET has said it before, Ranger play style is wearing down your opponent, kiting etc. **I am aware** that they failed to give us kiting kits/weapon/traits/utilities to REALLY kite enemies, I think if we have better movement impaired condition/ a lot of access to them most of the time then SB play style would be very interesting and fun. **To some**

 

**Side note** Balance patch won't be happening tomorrow according to Dev, not until mid season.

[malisivo.5264]

> @"AEFA.9035" said:

> most players who play Ranger seems to have the impression that SB will devour an enemy like lets say a dagger/pistol thief or a sword mesmer/ GS mesmer with shatter or mirage mesmer condi. ANET has said it before, Ranger play style is wearing down your opponent, kiting etc. **I am aware** that they failed to give us kiting kits/weapon/traits/utilities to REALLY kite enemies, I think if we have better movement impaired condition/ a lot of access to them most of the time then SB play style would be very interesting and fun. **To some**

>

> **Side note** Balance patch won't be happening tomorrow according to Dev, not until mid season.

 

I completely agree with you.

[Silverkung.9127]

PvE = 8/10 on PoF or 9/10 on normal krytra map

PvP am not fan of PvP

am WWW lover vote it 3/10 feel face more danger on close range and 900range hit is easy to get close in www.

can't control to get 100%reward from SB hit back or side b-cos fight with player they know how to not open his back.

If not to chaos fight like zerg eat zerg mid or small/mid group is feel ok but 1 v 1 it's hard to control enemy b4 they melt me.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"AEFA.9035" said:

> most players who play Ranger seems to have the impression that SB will devour an enemy like lets say a dagger/pistol thief or a sword mesmer/ GS mesmer with shatter or mirage mesmer condi. ANET has said it before, Ranger play style is wearing down your opponent, kiting etc. **I am aware** that they failed to give us kiting kits/weapon/traits/utilities to REALLY kite enemies, I think if we have better movement impaired condition/ a lot of access to them most of the time then SB play style would be very interesting and fun. **To some**

> **Side note** Balance patch won't be happening tomorrow according to Dev, not until mid season.

I agree, ranger play style is more about wearing down the oponent with some burst form time to time.

 

And that's why the shortbow needs to have access to 1500 range. It does little condition application (let say 3 secs bleeds) but if you can begin at a decent range you can use it to wear down the oponents before you have to swap to melee for more damage.

 

Right now the weapon is just a plain damage weapon (none of the skills have a signinficant impact from front) but without the actual damage.

 

 

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > @"AEFA.9035" said:

> > most players who play Ranger seems to have the impression that SB will devour an enemy like lets say a dagger/pistol thief or a sword mesmer/ GS mesmer with shatter or mirage mesmer condi. ANET has said it before, Ranger play style is wearing down your opponent, kiting etc. **I am aware** that they failed to give us kiting kits/weapon/traits/utilities to REALLY kite enemies, I think if we have better movement impaired condition/ a lot of access to them most of the time then SB play style would be very interesting and fun. **To some**

> > **Side note** Balance patch won't be happening tomorrow according to Dev, not until mid season.

> I agree, ranger play style is more about wearing down the oponent with some burst form time to time.

>

> And that's why the shortbow needs to have access to 1500 range. It does little condition application (let say 3 secs bleeds) but if you can begin at a decent range you can use it to wear down the oponents before you have to swap to melee for more damage.

>

> Right now the weapon is just a plain damage weapon (none of the skills have a signinficant impact from front) but without the actual damage.

>

>

 

Thief with stealth or S/D core is better at wearing down your enemy. Mirage is better at wearing down your enemy with constant kiting, stealth, evades. Firebrand outwears most things with the support it has.

 

So even if Ranger was created to outwear your enemy, its doing a piss poor job at it.

[Quintes.6943]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > @"AEFA.9035" said:

> > > most players who play Ranger seems to have the impression that SB will devour an enemy like lets say a dagger/pistol thief or a sword mesmer/ GS mesmer with shatter or mirage mesmer condi. ANET has said it before, Ranger play style is wearing down your opponent, kiting etc. **I am aware** that they failed to give us kiting kits/weapon/traits/utilities to REALLY kite enemies, I think if we have better movement impaired condition/ a lot of access to them most of the time then SB play style would be very interesting and fun. **To some**

> > > **Side note** Balance patch won't be happening tomorrow according to Dev, not until mid season.

> > I agree, ranger play style is more about wearing down the oponent with some burst form time to time.

> >

> > And that's why the shortbow needs to have access to 1500 range. It does little condition application (let say 3 secs bleeds) but if you can begin at a decent range you can use it to wear down the oponents before you have to swap to melee for more damage.

> >

> > Right now the weapon is just a plain damage weapon (none of the skills have a signinficant impact from front) but without the actual damage.

> >

> >

>

> Thief with stealth or S/D core is better at wearing down your enemy. Mirage is better at wearing down your enemy with constant kiting, stealth, evades. Firebrand outwears most things with the support it has.

>

> So even if Ranger was created to outwear your enemy, its doing a kitten poor job at it.

 

Maybe the strategy is not to wear down the character but the player themself by sending them into a laughing fit when they notice you trying to bring a shortbow into spvp. Plus when their rolling on the floor laughing their foot might tangle around their powercord and unplug their machine. When you think about it like that, shortbow can be a very powerful weapon indeed.

[Khailyn.6248]

I personally would like to see the auto attack of shortbow slowed down as i feel it fires far too quickly, but increase its stacks of conditions per hit to compensate. it feels like a longbow rapid fire 24/7 and it just feels weird. not like an actual bow. the skills themselves ive always liked. especially the positioning to get the most out of it. Damage could also be higher. So I would rate 7/10. Could be improved upon.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"Khailyn.6248" said:

> I personally would like to see the auto attack of shortbow slowed down as i feel it fires far too quickly, but increase its stacks of conditions per hit to compensate. it feels like a longbow rapid fire 24/7 and it just feels weird. not like an actual bow. the skills themselves ive always liked. especially the positioning to get the most out of it. Damage could also be higher. So I would rate 7/10. Could be improved upon.

 

you generous as hell.

[Khailyn.6248]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > @"Khailyn.6248" said:

> > I personally would like to see the auto attack of shortbow slowed down as i feel it fires far too quickly, but increase its stacks of conditions per hit to compensate. it feels like a longbow rapid fire 24/7 and it just feels weird. not like an actual bow. the skills themselves ive always liked. especially the positioning to get the most out of it. Damage could also be higher. So I would rate 7/10. Could be improved upon.

>

> you generous as hell.

 

yes, prolly much more so than i should be. i wanted to like the weapon, even crafted Chuka and Champawat but its the speed part more than the dps that annoyed me and ultimately turned me off to the weapon.

[EDDIE WRECKER.1375]

Never use shortbow, no knock back and feels less pew pewy. And the skins look pathetic. Little plink plink childrens toys.