ZhouX.8742 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > It's almost like people are playing blindfolded. Holosmith has some of the most obvious tells of any of the PoF specs, and if you know what they are, are super easy to deal with. In the meantime, to everybody complaining about it's super-opness... go play it. Please. Please play it. Please play it and come back to tell me how good its sustain is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because if it wasn't for scourge, scrapper would whoop holosmith's kitten pretty consistently. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with holo is that every single skill in forge is worth a dodge. Every single one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blitz, leap, corona, shockwave, even the kitten autoattack. They all hit for a lot of damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also one last reminder, just because mirage, scourge and fb are power creeped to hell and back, doesn't mean holo is fine lol. > > > > > > > > > > You missed my point. If you roll back the power creep of the scourge and FB, there are actually builds that can survive the holo nuking and dish it right back (DH, scrapper, chrono). These builds cannot persist in the current meta due to scourge AoE corruption though. The current meta is primarily glass (except FB) because glass builds are the only reasonable options against scourge, given its ease of use and spammability for massive damage and corruption. Balance is a lot like an ecosystem -- overpowered builds muscle out other less powerful builds. Is holo powerful? Yes. Is it overpowered against the tankier HoT specs? I don't think so. DH kicks holo's kitten pretty thoroughly, as does scrapper. > > > > > > > > > > Also, to your response about the skills... have you not heard of kiting and cc? If you're 1v1'ing a holo, you can interrupt them as soon as they enter forge (because I guarantee they are going to pop corona), or you can simply move away and immob/chill/cripple (the reason why scourge is so kitten effective). If you are in their face, and you are just as glassy, you will get your kitten pounded into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > The other thing everyone seems to gloss over is Holo is the only PoF spec that comes with its own built-in drawback -- overheating. If I get overzealous, I am liable to kill myself. This is the only class/spec in the game that can actually kill itself. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Brandon.8294" said: > > > > > > I feel like holos do not have large enough windows of opportunity for their enemies to exploit. > > > > > > > > > > 1. If a holo is distracted with somebody else, you can focus them down pretty quickly. On my holo I try to stay away from the enemy's attention until I'm ready to strike. If I get outnumbered, I generally try to run unless an opponent is down or very close to downed. In this sense, holo is a lot like a D/P thief. > > > > > 2. A holo is a lot like a harder hitting, but less mobile D/P thief. They are very easily countered by heavy pressure - heavy condi or spike damage. I often will focus an enemy holo over an enemy necro for this reason. > > > > > 3. If you watch holos closely, you can interrupt corona burst (they always pop it as soon as they enter forge). This is the most critical skill in the whole chain -- if it gets interrupted, it royally screws with the rotation. > > > > > 4. If you're being focused by a holo, kite and use your immobs/chill/cripple, or defenses/block/temp invulns. Most of them will either pop prime light beam (which you can dodge) or pop back out of holo mode, giving you a nice window to pressure them. > > > > > 5. A holo that's low on health should be running away -- they will only turn around when their burst is ready again. If you are chasing a holo who's injured, wait for them to turn around and pop forge, then use any invuln skill or kiting skill you have. > > > > > > > > Kiting and cc a 2 seconds leap ain't that easy. Only thief can headshot a holo out of corona, no other class has an interrupt that fast and lastly kill yourself? really? who uses this in an argument lol, obviously no one with 3 braincells will let it happen. > > > > > > 1. That 2 second leap barely moves faster than an engineer with swiftness. If you can't kite that, you don't know how to kite. > > > 2. It's actually fairly predictable. There are certain times where a holo is likely to activate their forge, but you need to practice against a few to get a sense of the timing. > > > 3. The self destruct is actually really easy to accidentally trigger. I've done it several times in the course of this season (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not), but it is always a major threat when it happens. > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > I like the Overheat trait (14k "burst")... combine that with Rifle 5 skill and boom! someone dies. I also like how I can proc it in safety with Elixer S. > > > > > > > > I am bad player though > > > > > > That's actually pretty hard to pull off successfully in real matches. Overheat + elixir S + explosion requires you to precisely time the elixir s immediately when you overheat and you have to be in the perfect location. Rifle 5 + overheat also requires pretty precise timing and accuracy as well. You essentially have to be right on top of somebody after just finishing a holo burst to pull it off. > > > > > > > @"Loop.8106" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > This is the only class/spec in the game that can actually kill itself. > > > > Blood is power necros says hi. Also, thats a pretty kitten argument haha > > > > > > > > > > You have to be pretty bad at playing blood is power to pull that off -- you generally don't lose as much health as an overheated holo (4 self bleeds vs 1/2 your health), and you would have to intentionally do that. > > > > > > It's also a reasonable argument -- if you are bad at playing it and managing your heat, you will kill yourself. > > > > it's actually not that hard to pull off..... > > > > While waiting for the match to begin, I'm in holo mode getting it to the red part. Once it's in the red I get out of holo mode and head to the point, start the engagement, switch into holo mode and use skill 5 for the CC which will overheat you then you use rifle 5 ontop of them... All the damage will hit them while they are still CC'd. > > > > Timing it with Elixer S from my point of view is only good against a scourge, overheat yourself and elixer S into the desert shroud for a safe proc. > > The overheat trait is also good as a blast finiher with the water field if timed right, negates the over heat damage to yourself. > > > > As the other guy said though, only works on bad players, which is a good thing cuz apparently all the good players left :sunglasses: > > what level of skill players you playing against buddy? " i get out of holo mode and head to the point, start the engagement, and switch into holo mode to use skill 5 " just gonna stop you there.... Haha exactly what i was thinking... 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sephiroth.4217 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > > It's almost like people are playing blindfolded. Holosmith has some of the most obvious tells of any of the PoF specs, and if you know what they are, are super easy to deal with. In the meantime, to everybody complaining about it's super-opness... go play it. Please. Please play it. Please play it and come back to tell me how good its sustain is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because if it wasn't for scourge, scrapper would whoop holosmith's kitten pretty consistently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with holo is that every single skill in forge is worth a dodge. Every single one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blitz, leap, corona, shockwave, even the kitten autoattack. They all hit for a lot of damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also one last reminder, just because mirage, scourge and fb are power creeped to hell and back, doesn't mean holo is fine lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > You missed my point. If you roll back the power creep of the scourge and FB, there are actually builds that can survive the holo nuking and dish it right back (DH, scrapper, chrono). These builds cannot persist in the current meta due to scourge AoE corruption though. The current meta is primarily glass (except FB) because glass builds are the only reasonable options against scourge, given its ease of use and spammability for massive damage and corruption. Balance is a lot like an ecosystem -- overpowered builds muscle out other less powerful builds. Is holo powerful? Yes. Is it overpowered against the tankier HoT specs? I don't think so. DH kicks holo's kitten pretty thoroughly, as does scrapper. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, to your response about the skills... have you not heard of kiting and cc? If you're 1v1'ing a holo, you can interrupt them as soon as they enter forge (because I guarantee they are going to pop corona), or you can simply move away and immob/chill/cripple (the reason why scourge is so kitten effective). If you are in their face, and you are just as glassy, you will get your kitten pounded into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > The other thing everyone seems to gloss over is Holo is the only PoF spec that comes with its own built-in drawback -- overheating. If I get overzealous, I am liable to kill myself. This is the only class/spec in the game that can actually kill itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Brandon.8294" said: > > > > > > > I feel like holos do not have large enough windows of opportunity for their enemies to exploit. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. If a holo is distracted with somebody else, you can focus them down pretty quickly. On my holo I try to stay away from the enemy's attention until I'm ready to strike. If I get outnumbered, I generally try to run unless an opponent is down or very close to downed. In this sense, holo is a lot like a D/P thief. > > > > > > 2. A holo is a lot like a harder hitting, but less mobile D/P thief. They are very easily countered by heavy pressure - heavy condi or spike damage. I often will focus an enemy holo over an enemy necro for this reason. > > > > > > 3. If you watch holos closely, you can interrupt corona burst (they always pop it as soon as they enter forge). This is the most critical skill in the whole chain -- if it gets interrupted, it royally screws with the rotation. > > > > > > 4. If you're being focused by a holo, kite and use your immobs/chill/cripple, or defenses/block/temp invulns. Most of them will either pop prime light beam (which you can dodge) or pop back out of holo mode, giving you a nice window to pressure them. > > > > > > 5. A holo that's low on health should be running away -- they will only turn around when their burst is ready again. If you are chasing a holo who's injured, wait for them to turn around and pop forge, then use any invuln skill or kiting skill you have. > > > > > > > > > > Kiting and cc a 2 seconds leap ain't that easy. Only thief can headshot a holo out of corona, no other class has an interrupt that fast and lastly kill yourself? really? who uses this in an argument lol, obviously no one with 3 braincells will let it happen. > > > > > > > > 1. That 2 second leap barely moves faster than an engineer with swiftness. If you can't kite that, you don't know how to kite. > > > > 2. It's actually fairly predictable. There are certain times where a holo is likely to activate their forge, but you need to practice against a few to get a sense of the timing. > > > > 3. The self destruct is actually really easy to accidentally trigger. I've done it several times in the course of this season (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not), but it is always a major threat when it happens. > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > I like the Overheat trait (14k "burst")... combine that with Rifle 5 skill and boom! someone dies. I also like how I can proc it in safety with Elixer S. > > > > > > > > > > I am bad player though > > > > > > > > That's actually pretty hard to pull off successfully in real matches. Overheat + elixir S + explosion requires you to precisely time the elixir s immediately when you overheat and you have to be in the perfect location. Rifle 5 + overheat also requires pretty precise timing and accuracy as well. You essentially have to be right on top of somebody after just finishing a holo burst to pull it off. > > > > > > > > > @"Loop.8106" said: > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > This is the only class/spec in the game that can actually kill itself. > > > > > Blood is power necros says hi. Also, thats a pretty kitten argument haha > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to be pretty bad at playing blood is power to pull that off -- you generally don't lose as much health as an overheated holo (4 self bleeds vs 1/2 your health), and you would have to intentionally do that. > > > > > > > > It's also a reasonable argument -- if you are bad at playing it and managing your heat, you will kill yourself. > > > > > > it's actually not that hard to pull off..... > > > > > > While waiting for the match to begin, I'm in holo mode getting it to the red part. Once it's in the red I get out of holo mode and head to the point, start the engagement, switch into holo mode and use skill 5 for the CC which will overheat you then you use rifle 5 ontop of them... All the damage will hit them while they are still CC'd. > > > > > > Timing it with Elixer S from my point of view is only good against a scourge, overheat yourself and elixer S into the desert shroud for a safe proc. > > > The overheat trait is also good as a blast finiher with the water field if timed right, negates the over heat damage to yourself. > > > > > > As the other guy said though, only works on bad players, which is a good thing cuz apparently all the good players left :sunglasses: > > > > what level of skill players you playing against buddy? " i get out of holo mode and head to the point, start the engagement, and switch into holo mode to use skill 5 " just gonna stop you there.... > > Haha exactly what i was thinking... Immediately lost credibility Oh no my credibility, what ever shall I do :cry: All I was trying to do was post that I like the damage output and laid out what I thought was a very simple burst combo before you decided to get aggressive about it but I'll continue to do it with or without your approval really, I can do it quite easy and assume many other players can too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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