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How would you redesign the ranger?


Lonami.2987

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@"Jimbru.6014"

Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken ass shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through *terrain* , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.

Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

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So many things to discuss about ranger class design. Rhyse.8179 summarized the core problem pretty well:

 

> @"Rhyse.8179" said:

> What I would do is make the pet fully controllable. Move to location, guard ally, jump of a cliff, whatever. I want to be able to have my pet and I working on different things at different positions on the battlefield. As it is now (and forever) he's just a DOT with a hitbox.

 

To which I might add, a separate hit point pool that can result in us being pretty effectively crippled in a way other classes can't—and that tradeoff should be part of our class design, but seems not to be in GW2. Then again, my pets can solo veterans, which in my mind they should not be able to do. There are many situations outside of PvP where I find my pet just doesn't take much damage (or it dies within 5 seconds of course). Very swingy, context-dependent survivability. Anyhow!

 

As Rhyse said, the "core mechanic" of the class is sorely oversimplified, and soulbeast is a late semi-fix to the problem, giving us control over 3 of the pet's abilities, but taking away the pet*. I would love to be able to tell my pet where to stay, what to guard, and which attacks to use. Sadly, what we do have is just crappy pathing and combat AI.

 

(* Don't get me wrong; I love the design of soulbeast for some of the strategic and tactical options it gives me, but those too are probably not clear to many players, and outside the scope of this post. On the other hand, I do sometimes feel that beast mode is just a different arrangement of food on the plate.)

 

As for confusing variety in pets, I will admit to putting together a big color-coded spreadsheet of all the pets, with their stats and special abilities. There is a general design pattern where each family shares a general "role" such as tank, high DPS, condition, etc, with the same AI skills, but differing player-controlled (F2-key) abilities for such things as even more DPS, healing, CC, etc, with of course the odd exception. The pets in each family also vary with which stats they boost for soulbeast, which gives you at least three high-level ways of grouping pets. The thing is, the pet management UI makes this very hard to find out! You have to be familiar with all your pets in order to choose the right one for the job at hand (which is why I made the spreadsheet). I would much rather see a pet management window where, instead of just being shown all the pets, you choose the category (primary this, secondary that, beast mode that), and are shown pets for that job, so you can quickly get what you need. For those who prefer to pick pets by family or just looks, the existing arrangement could remain, of course.

 

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> @"ChartFish.1308" said:

> @"Jimbru.6014"

> Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through *terrain* , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.

> Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

This is the result of the gigantic nerf the gazelle's charge took due to whiny PVPers. I'm not sure _how_ gutting the damage by roughly 3/4 caused it to happen, but it never happened before that.

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Structurally, the Ranger isn't too bad but, speaking as someone who prefers to main Ranger types, it just lacks that wow factor. Almost everything about the class seems bland and uninspired. Not really sure what I would suggest to fix it though. Maybe if the next elite spec gave the Ranger a bit more of a geomancer flair? Perhaps a shield, focus (totem), or staff for the next weapon

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> @"calb.3128" said:

> While refinement and tweaking is welcome (_hello, 80% of pets..._), I’m broadly content with the state of the Ranger and do not want a redesign. :)

 

Yup. Ranger is already fun to play in a variety of situations. Pets tend to be OP, redundant, or barely niche-useful, so I'd be fine if ANet just refactored what we already have. Heck, I wouldn't mind that much if the only difference between pets within a family was the skin, as long as each family had a strong use in a substantive build.

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I honestly would like the pet for the core Ranger to be overall stronger than for Soulbeast and Druid, so those two e-specs keep their juvenile pet but the Ranger gets an adult one, which is bigger visually (really don't like having a puppy at my side) and stronger (more health/damage).

 

Otherwise I like the idea of reducing the overall number of pets by cutting the different iteration of the same type, if it means each pet is unique and viable.

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> @"ChartFish.1308" said:

> @"Jimbru.6014"

> Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through *terrain* , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.

> Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

 

The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

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> @"Alchimist.4738" said:

> I honestly would like the pet for the core Ranger to be overall stronger than for Soulbeast and Druid, so those two e-specs keep their juvenile pet but the Ranger gets an adult one, which is bigger visually (really don't like having a puppy at my side) and stronger (more health/damage).

>

> Otherwise I like the idea of reducing the overall number of pets by cutting the different iteration of the same type, if it means each pet is unique and viable.

 

i'm waiting for a beastmaster spec for this tbh lol. they've been neglecting ranger pet traits and skills last two xpacs, so I thirst for one that makes your pet actually viable.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Broadly speaking I think the OP is on the right track.

 

It's great that rangers have pets, but they've never been equally useful so generally most people use the same few. It's really boring.

 

And shapeshifting would be awesome. It's the one thing which could get me interested in rangers again. Obviously depending on implementation. GW2 has a habit of presenting great ideas and then royally screwing them - eg. revenant demon stance. No cooldowns. Hooray! Then you look at the associated traits and 2/3rds have BLEEPING cooldowns. So yeah, I reckon ANET could BLEEP up shapeshifting if they really put their mind to it.

 

Still, watching this space. PoF was a complete write off for elite specs, as far as my tastes are concerned so I didn't buy it. But I'll see what the next batch has to offer.

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> @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > @"ChartFish.1308" said:

> > @"Jimbru.6014"

> > Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through *terrain* , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.

> > Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

>

> The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

 

Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one that hates the gazelle charge. That was actually meant to be a **buff** so that it would be more likely to hit more targets. I'd rather they revert it with no other change. Or if they must buff it, make it unleash a small shockwave.

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> @"DaFishBob.6518" said:

> > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > > @"ChartFish.1308" said:

> > > @"Jimbru.6014"

> > > Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through *terrain* , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.

> > > Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

> >

> > The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

>

> Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one that hates the gazelle charge. That was actually meant to be a **buff** so that it would be more likely to hit more targets. I'd rather they revert it with no other change. Or if they must buff it, make it unleash a small shockwave.

 

If Anet wants it to hit more targets in a straight line, then have it stop when it hits and unleash a straight line "shockwave" for a short distance, like a burst of the wyvern's wingbeat knockback.

 

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> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus [some new elite specialization ideas](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38383) to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

>

> * **Ranger:** The pet system has been simplified. Now you choose the species first (drake), and then an archetype (fire). The species determines the base skills and attributes, and the archetype unlocks additional skills and attributes, as long as it's enabled for that species. There's five archetypes: Common, Fire, Water, Air, and Earth. Additionally, you can now freely customize your pet's aesthetic with the appearance of any other members of its species, once unlocked. Off-hand sword is enabled by default, and off-hand dagger is made exclusive to soulbeast. Some pet species are merged, and new ones are introduced (raptor, griffon, eel, etc).

>

> * **Druid:** Now you can use mechanic skill F5 to temporarily transform your pet into a druidic wisp, disabling it in exchange of druidic skills. Once transformed, your mechanic bar will be upgraded, unlocking new druid skills in mechanic slots F1, F2, and F3. You can still swap pets using F4, swapping to the second pet's wisp. Each pet's archetype determines the type of wisp it will transform into and the mechanic skills unlocked by it (water would unlock healing skills, fire direct damage, etc). Weapon skills are not affected by the pet's transformation, but your character will receive a visual-only drudic form, its color determined by the current archetype. The pet is invulnerable while in wisp form.

>

> * **Soulbeast:** Pets are gone, replaced by animal transformations. You can equip two at once, using mechanic skills F1 and F2. The available transformations are Bear (crowd control, amphibian), Cheetah (direct damage, amphibian), Eagle (direct damage, glider), Eel (condition damage, amphibian), Scarab (condition damage, glider), and Stag (support). You can stay transformed as long as you want, only being forced out of the transformation when downed. Transformations change your attributes, increasing or decreasing them depending on the chosen one. Some transformations have gliding enabled, and others can't go underwater, forcing you to swim in the surface. You need to go back to normal to transform to a different animal.

>

> * **Reaver:** Pets are gone, replaced by a new mechanic, the swarm. Instead of a single individual, swarms include multiple smaller pets at once, and are commanded simultaneously. The controls are the same as those of pets, and you can swap to an alternate swarm much like when you swapped between pets. Swarm members can be killed individually, respawning automatically after a few seconds. There's six swarm types to choose from: Crabs (amphibian), Elvers (amphibian), Pocket Raptors, Pygmy Moas, Rats (amphibian), and Wasps; each including different skins and options to choose from. Venoms are the new slot skills, and they are applied to both the reaver and all active swarm members.

>

> * **Bloodhound:** Both pets are deployed at once, and swapping is no longer available. "Attack My Target" remains at mechanic skill F1, becoming a sequential skill alternating command of each pet. Mechanic skills F2 and F3 include each pet's respective special skill. Mechanic skill F4 includes a new skill, a combo attack involving both pets at once. Mechanic skill F5 includes the "Return to Me" skill, affecting both pets at once. Defeated pets despawn, respawning automatically after a few seconds.

>

> * **Botanist:** Pets are gone, replaced by a pouch of seeds. Mechanic skills F1, F2, F3, F4, and F5 let you equip 5 seed bags, individually selected from a list of 10. These seeds hatch when thrown, spawning magic plants with various abilities, including everything from direct damage to group support, most of them qualifying as combo fields as well. Wells are the new slot skills, and they boost the abilities of hatched plants.

 

Time for an upgrade. Here's my latest problem identification:

 

* There's way too many pets, and they have way too many variables. Either reduce the pet numbers, or simplify them. The numbers are part of what make the pets interesting, so that might be harder to touch.

* Pet AI is a huge problem, and I don't even know if giving full control will compensate the micromanagement required for it. Maybe less control is the right answer.

* Lot of people dislike having the pet permanently out. How about making it temporary, like a summoned creature? Pets could become more powerful and meaningful this way.

* Rangers have a base attribute loss to compensate for the existence of the pet. Would be nice to get rid of it somehow.

 

With the above points in mind, here's my current redesign idea:

 

* Pets are no longer permanently out, and need to be manually summoned each time. Pets last a finite amount of time, but can also be killed by the enemy. Pets are also stronger now.

* Each pet type has a basic automatic AI role. Some pets chase their targets, others stay near the ranger, etc. You don't have to worry about commanding it, you know what it does, and you deploy it when the time is right. Each pet type has some basic command skills, but you can no longer control it as much as before. To some point, this would make pets a bit more realistic as well.

* Since we're working with temporary summons now, some pet types could include multiple units at once. For example, the hound pet type could summon three units instead of one (a pack of wolves), and the spider pet could spawn hatchlings as the battle goes on (spider broodmother).

* Pets aren't summoned directly to your side, and spawn using a special attack instead. For example, the wyvern hovers around the target and scorches the earth before landing and joining the battle, and the spider immobilizes its target right before it spawns. The idea is that pets stay back, sometimes hiding, until you call them into battle.

* You can equip two pets, in mechanic slots F1 and F2. Once you summon a pet, the other one is disabled. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 would give you bonus command options, but nothing giving you additional control, just combat perks.

* Some weapon and slot skills would affect the pet's behavior. You can't give direct commands to a pet anymore once it's deployed, but you can indirectly change its target or role.

 

So, pets are pretty much summon minion skills now, but a bit more advanced.

 

A strong categorization of the types and what they do would be nice. I'm going for 4x4=16, applying combinatorics to 4 archetypes and 4 roles:

 

* **Archetypes:** Ferocious (bonus power and precision), Stout (bonus toughness and vitality), Deadly (bonus condition damage), and Supportive (bonus healing and concentration). These stats might sound kinda pointless at first, but I would expect skills interacting with pets to benefit from them (like a shout that heals you and your pet based on the combined healing power).

* **Roles:** Heavy, Medium, Light, Flying. These pretty much determine the base attributes, and how the AI will react.

 

These 4 and 4 combine, yielding the 16 pet types. Each role has its own base attributes, with the archetype applying a bonus over them. Each pet has 3 mechanic skills, found at F3, F4, and F5 once summoned. F3 is determined by the archetype, F4 by role, and F5 is unique to each pet type.

 

For underwater combat, we get two whole new water-only categories, with some types sharing skins with the ground versions.

 

The forum doesn't like tables too much, so excuse the format. The following table includes the 16 (24 with water) pet types:

 

-FEROCIOUSSTOUTDEADLYSUPPORTIVE
HEAVYBearDrakeBeetleBoar
MEDIUMPantherSerpentScorpionMoa
LIGHTHoundRaptorSpiderGoat
FLYINGGriffonWyvernScarabBird
WATER 1SharkDrakeShrimpTurtle
WATER 2FishSerpentOctopusJellyfish

 

Of course, these are just types defining combat, and might include different species inside. For example:

 

* Hound includes wolves, dogs, and hyenas.

* Panther includes lynxes, lions, rock dogs, smokescales, and tigers.

* Serpent includes eels and ibogas.

* Beetle includes crabs.

* Scorpion includes devourers and bristlebacks.

* Scarab includes mushrooms and jacarandas.

* Shrimp includes other crustaceans, like sea scorpions.

 

As with my previous ideas, each pet type has multiple pet skins to choose from, none of them affecting the attributes or skills. When you use a hound or a moa, you can choose the skin you want, as long as you have unlocked it.

 

What about drake breathing? Some species breath fire, and others ice. You would be able to add effects to pet skills through traits, making them apply specific conditions, in some cases (drakes and wyverns mostly) changing the animation effects as well.

 

What about elite specializations?

 

* **Druid:** The celestial avatar, located at F6, changes your weapon skills, the original skills now being tied to the staff. You can weapon swap normally while in the celestial form. While no pet is active, the celestial form is white. Summoning a pet gives the druid bonus attributes tied to the pet's archetype, and changes the celestial form's color (orange for ferocious, green for stout, yellow for deadly, and blue for supportive). Pets are visually affected by the transformation, and gain bonus attributes as well, tied to the druid's own attributes.

* **Soulbeast:** Pet skills F1 and F2 are replaced by transformation skills. There's five to choose from, loosely based on each archetype: Panther (ferocious), Serpent (stout, amphibian), Spider (deadly), Stag (supportive), and Shark (ferocious, water-only). These transformations change your physical appearance and effectively turn you into those animals, using unique models that preserve some of your character's gender and racial attributes (for example, a charr panther would have horns, and sylvari panther would have leaves instead of fur). Off-hand dagger becomes exclusive for the soulbeast, and off-hand sword is unlocked for the core ranger in exchange.

 

And a few new ones for additional examples:

 

* **Grovekeeper:** The forest is at your command. Instead of summoning pets one by one, you now lead a horde of forest animals. Grow it in combat and set it loose against your enemies. You can't manually control the horde, and you can only decide which random beasts from an archetype to summon. They are far weaker than normal pets, but the overwhelming numbers should be enough to compensate. New weapon: Polearm (melee greataxe/scythe). New slot skills: Well (useful to support your horde). Partially inspired by the [bloomhunger fractal boss](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloomhunger).

* **Bloodhound:** The perfect hunter. You can now summon both pets at once, with no restrictions. F3, F4, and F5 command skills upgrade to combo pet skills when both pets are deployed at once. New weapon: Rifle (long range). New slot skills: Deception (ambushing).

* **Botanist:** Instead of pets, you now summon carnivore plant turrets, based on the original pet archetypes. Heavy on condition damage, with both ranged and melee options. New weapon: Vial (support for plant turrets). New slot skills: Venoms (applied to the turrets as well)

 

> @"TempestMoon.5403" said:

> Structurally, the Ranger isn't too bad but, speaking as someone who prefers to main Ranger types, it just lacks that wow factor. Almost everything about the class seems bland and uninspired. Not really sure what I would suggest to fix it though. Maybe if the next elite spec gave the Ranger a bit more of a geomancer flair? Perhaps a shield, focus (totem), or staff for the next weapon

 

I think most slot skills are really bland, and far too dependent on the pet. Elementalist has a similar problem, 6 to 0 is just boring and useless.

 

> @"Caeledh.5437" said:

> Broadly speaking I think the OP is on the right track.

>

> It's great that rangers have pets, but they've never been equally useful so generally most people use the same few. It's really boring.

>

> And shapeshifting would be awesome. It's the one thing which could get me interested in rangers again. Obviously depending on implementation. GW2 has a habit of presenting great ideas and then royally screwing them - eg. revenant demon stance. No cooldowns. Hooray! Then you look at the associated traits and 2/3rds have BLEEPING cooldowns. So yeah, I reckon ANET could BLEEP up shapeshifting if they really put their mind to it.

>

> Still, watching this space. PoF was a complete write off for elite specs, as far as my tastes are concerned so I didn't buy it. But I'll see what the next batch has to offer.

 

Yeah, PoF was very disappointing regarding elite specializations, most of them less exciting than the ones we got in HoT. When they first announced them, back before HoT, I expected new mechanics with every new elite specialization, and not just some glorified skill unlocks that in other games would be part of your usual patch-released skill packs.

 

They better make the 3rd generation really shine out, or people will just stop caring about them altogether.

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> @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > @"ChartFish.1308" said:

> > @"Jimbru.6014"

> > Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through *terrain* , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.

> > Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

>

> The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

 

Last night when I was in sPVP and I hit F2, Gazelle went under the deck where we fighting, through the slab, just disappear, I saw only her/his name over the deck surface :D .

I keep and like the ranger like it is now :) . Ofc the main things which should be changed are some (many, unfortunately) pets mechanics, damage, heal etc. I want ranger to rely more on the pet than it is now. As @"Alchimist.4738" said, I want the pet to be bigger and stronger, I want his damage to be equal with ranger one, so our actual damage be split in half. I want some pets to be more tanky than ranger is, so we can stand behind him, etc ...

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> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > > @"ChartFish.1308" said:

> > > @"Jimbru.6014"

> > > Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through *terrain* , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.

> > > Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

> >

> > The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

>

> Last night when I was in sPVP and I hit F2, Gazelle went under the deck where we fighting, through the slab, just disappear, I saw only her/his name over the deck surface :D .

> I keep and like the ranger like it is now :) . Ofc the main things which should be changed are some (many, unfortunately) pets mechanics, damage, heal etc. I want ranger to rely more on the pet than it is now. As @"Alchimist.4738" said, I want the pet to be bigger and stronger, I want his damage to be equal with ranger one, so our actual damage be split in half. I want some pets to be more tanky than ranger is, so we can stand behind him, etc ...

 

Sounds good in theory but then we could just Los people and let the pet kill them. Too easy to abuse.

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> @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > > > @"ChartFish.1308" said:

> > > > @"Jimbru.6014"

> > > > Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through *terrain* , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.

> > > > Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

> > >

> > > The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

> >

> > Last night when I was in sPVP and I hit F2, Gazelle went under the deck where we fighting, through the slab, just disappear, I saw only her/his name over the deck surface :D .

> > I keep and like the ranger like it is now :) . Ofc the main things which should be changed are some (many, unfortunately) pets mechanics, damage, heal etc. I want ranger to rely more on the pet than it is now. As @"Alchimist.4738" said, I want the pet to be bigger and stronger, I want his damage to be equal with ranger one, so our actual damage be split in half. I want some pets to be more tanky than ranger is, so we can stand behind him, etc ...

>

> Sounds good in theory but then we could just Los people and let the pet kill them. Too easy to abuse.

 

In World of Warcraft this wasn't a problem. You must keep in mind that if they will improve pet they should diminish ranger defensive skills. Now are many classes who can hit a ranger which is hidden after a tree or a big rock (mesmer, necro, ele), instead 99% of ranger skills doesn't, we need the target to be in Los. And still we , warrior too, can kill these classes.

Anyway, like I already said, I like the Soulbeast like it is atm, but I don't mind some changes regarding pets in the future patches.

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> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> Yeah, PoF was very disappointing regarding elite specializations, most of them less exciting than the ones we got in HoT. When they first announced them, back before HoT, I expected new mechanics with every new elite specialization, and not just some glorified skill unlocks that in other games would be part of your usual patch-released skill packs.

 

The problem for me and possibly many others is that the elites sometimes take a big crap on the things you like most about the base profession.

 

Best thing about rangers is nature theme and pet. Soulbeast gets rid of the pet.

 

Best thing about engineers is kits allowing weapon swap without a cooldown. Holosmith both has a cooldown on photon forge and puts cooldowns on kits.

 

Best thing about revenants is no / few cooldowns. All but 1 renegade skill has a cooldown and they're not short.

 

Deadeye did the unthinkable and introduced a cooldown lite (aka ammunition) to a thief weapon skill, kneel. I was gobsmacked. Also not surprised that ANet later took it off the ammo system.

 

Firebrand mantras look nice for my tastes. The ammunition system is a bit more flexible than regular cooldowns and their regen rate for the Firebrand ones are relatively short. But it's still inferior compared to base revenant.

 

Scourge barriers look interesting and I'm not bothered by their losing shroud. It's one less cooldown! But necromancy and death don't appeal to me thematically. Other mechanical aspects of necromancer already appeal, eg. pets without limited durations, and it was the last profession I bothered to level to 80 with two more I may never.

 

Elementalists are an interesting case. The player base is split between those who like to camp one attunement and those who like to madly jump around between them. HoT and PoF delivered separate elites catering to each. So some would have been happy with one and despised the other. Meanwhile the base profession managed to cater to both separately with different traits.

 

> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> They better make the 3rd generation really shine out, or people will just stop caring about them altogether.

 

If you recall, pre PoF they announced their intention to roll out future expansions more quickly. That didn't actually happen and now it seems like there might be another season of living story rather than the next expansion. It's probably safe to infer that PoF also didn't do as well as they'd have liked and that they're re-evaluating lots of things including elites.

 

Hopefully they've realised that elites messing with core mechanics like they have is basically SOE's NGE mistake on a smaller scale.

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> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> Yeah, PoF was very disappointing regarding elite specializations, most of them less exciting than the ones we got in HoT. When they first announced them, back before HoT, I expected new mechanics with every new elite specialization, and not just some glorified skill unlocks that in other games would be part of your usual patch-released skill packs.

>

> They better make the 3rd generation really shine out, or people will just stop caring about them altogether.

 

Mirage is desperately overpowered, and everything Anet has tried to fix it has only hurt non-Mirage mesmers while leaving Mirage still overpowered. I also despise the distortion mechanic replacing normal dodging. The whole spec needs a wash.

 

Scourge is fun. It can fit a lot of different play styles depending on build and gear. That's one of the few Anet got right.

 

Soulbeast feels underwhelming much of the time, especially with all the condi nerfs. Just additional mechanics to keep track of with little discernable benefit over core ranger.

 

Spellbreaker is too situational. Core warrior is better for anything where you don't absolutely need boon stripping.

 

Renegade is all ground targeted AOE that doesn't work underwater. You don't realize how annoying that is until you have to contend with it.

 

Firebrand has terrible mobility given its up close nature. DH is still underpowered even compared to core guardian. Guardians in general still have crap self-healing, and their defensive skills are extremely overrated for their low base HP.

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  • 4 months later...

My last idea solves many problems, but it might be too crowded. Also, there's many pets among the current setup that don't fit combat roles too well. Let's try another thing:

 

---

 

**Ranger**

 

Pets can no longer be selected freely. Instead, you have four biomes to choose from, and each biome has two pets assigned to it:

 

* **Beasts of Ascalon:** Raptor (medium) and Devourer (light).

* **Beasts of Kryta:** Drake (heavy) and Hound (medium).

* **Beasts of Maguuma:** Panther (medium) and Spider (light).

* **Beasts of the Shiverpeaks:** Bear (heavy) and Bird (light).

 

Once you have selected a biome, you can swap between its two pets normally. Each pet has a set of unique skills, and its base attributes are determined by its class (heavy, medium, or light). Each individual pet can be customized with different pet skins. Traits allow further customization of skills and attributes.

 

The beast skills would be as follows:

 

* **F1:** Charge/Lunge/Leap skill. Counts as a combo finisher.

* **F2:** Defensive/Support skill.

* **F3:** Ultimate skill. Great damage, usually on area.

* **F4:** Pet swap.

 

Pets would remain locked at combat with the selected target of their last action. Specific weapon and slot skills allow pet target swapping as well, either automatically or through optional chain skills.

 

Off-hand dagger has been replaced by off-hand sword.

 

---

 

**Druid**

 

You can channel the astral magic of the druids, infusing your pet and yourself with it.

 

* **F5:** Astral Mode. Activate/Deactivate the astral form. No time limit, gets automatically deactivated if downed.

 

Once Astral Mode is activated, both your weapon skills and your pet's skills will gain alternate effects (much like elementalist attunements). You can stay on astral form for as long as you want, but your connection to the material world will start fading, gradually reducing your maximum health the longer you stay transformed. This process is represented by a growing ghostly effect over the player and his pet (similar to holosmith heat). Your health can be reduced to a maximum of 50% of the original, and will gradually regenerate once you deactivate the astral mode.

 

The idea is to let players calculate the risks of astral mode by themselves, instead of forcing an artificial time limit. Good players will push that limit, risking their life in exchange for longer access to the astral skills.

 

The new weapon is the staff, inheriting the original skills of the Celestial Avatar for its astral mode. Glyphs are the new slot skills, gaining alternate effects when astral mode is active.

 

---

 

**Soulbeast**

 

You can fuse with your pet, acquiring its attributes and skills.

 

* **F5:** Beast Fusion. Activate/Deactivate the fusion with your pet. No time limit, gets automatically deactivated if downed.

 

Once Beast Fusion is activated, beast skills F1, F2, and F3 will become chain skills, combining the original pet skills with new weapon skills. Swapping a pet with F4 while you're fused swaps skills and attributes as well. These new skills produce a new resource, called Fusion Power, which boosts pets once you deactivate the fusion. The more fusion power you have, the longer the boost lasts. Successfully performing chain attacks with any of the three beast skills produces fusion power faster.

 

The idea is to stay fused until you generate enough fusion power, then deactivate the fusion to spawn stronger pets, and once the boost runs out, fuse once again to produce more fusion power. You can remain fused for as long as you want, but that's not the ideal gameplay.

 

The new weapons are main-hand and off-hand daggers. Stances are the new slot skills, giving bonuses to both yourself and the pet if you're not fused, and double bonuses to yourself if you're fused.

 

---

 

As a bonus, each elite specialization could include a new biome:

 

* **Druid - Beasts of the Falls:** Beetle (heavy) and Wyvern (medium).

* **Soulbeast - Beasts of Elona:** Serpent (medium) and Scarab (light).

 

These might be exclusive for the elite specialization, or become available for the whole profession.

 

---

 

I think this works much more better than anything I made so far.

 

> @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> Enable pet swap in beast mode and balance accordingly. Pet swap and beast mode mechanic and cooldowns feel so clunky and unenjoyable it just makes me go back to druid or another more flowing class.

 

I'm kinda surprised it doesn't already work that way.

 

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> i would make shortbow more lethal at range than melee

 

I would redesign it altogether, to be fair.

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@""Lonami.2987"

Just to keep you up to date.

I am still working on my ranger rework.

Part 1 pets are done.

Currently working on core ranger.

 

My elite spec ideas are a little bit fleshed out already.

 

For druid i chose to give it a more revenant like feel to it.

You have sun or moon form and your pet has the other.

You can produce either sun or moon force up until you hit a max were you have to force swap.

Sun is responsible for dmg and boons and moon is responsible for heal and CC.

 

Petswap is replaced with aspect swap.

 

F5 is still celestial avatar but has two forms too and is responsible for consuming astral force.

While the utilities which are now aspects (like the herld utilities) and weaponskills generate said force.

Goal is to juggle the energy and constantly generate it while consume it.

Adapt on the fly and support your allies with boons and heals.

 

Depending on moon or sun form your pets skills change and your mark skills do too.

 

For soulbeast i do not chabge the mechanic very much except that you no longer have 2 pets and that you gain glyphs as utilities instead of stances, so your archetypes matters a bit more.

 

 

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I like the current status of the ranger, but if I could change something I would change.

Core ranger:

I would like to make changes to pets, I would like some pets to be faster in launching their skills (f2 wolf / birds for example) and that the user can use every skill of the pets whenever he wants, without relying on AI.

The pet is part of our damage, but somehow they work as two separate subjects, the traits like Fortifying Bond should be reworked, I think it is wrong to have to choose a trait to share the boons with part of our damage, I add that the minor traits Marksman could get buffs because at the moment they are pretty useless.

Druid:

Restore Seed of Life, allow this ability to remove 2 conditions again, so as to give an alternative to WS for cleaning conditions and reviewing people using glyphs, Celestial avatar, I would remove the ground targetting from skill 1 and give a greater range of action at skills 2 and 4.

I would not change anything at Soulbeast I like it. xD

 

I hope in the future there is the possibility of obtaining a speclization without pets, I consider it almost impossible to make them competitive within zergs, it is the only plausible way in my opinion that we could obtain a valid zerg build.

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  • 1 year later...

It's been quite a while. Going for a soft redesign this time:

 

---

 

##Mechanic bar redesign

 

Ranger mechanic bar redesign idea.

 

An image is worth a thousand words, but just in case:

 

* **F1:** [swap Pets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pet_swap) (formerly at F4, second pet is now displayed on screen).

* **F2:** Attack My Target (formerly at F1).

* **F3:** [beast skill #1](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beast) (formerly at F2).

* **F4:** Return to Me (formerly at F3).

* **F5:** Beast skill #2 (new skill).

* Stow Pet / Activate Pet (no hotkey on default, can be assigned one manually).

* Guard / Avoid Combat (no hotkey on default, can be assigned one manually).

 

---

 

##Changes to the pet mechanic

 

Pets are the central part of the ranger's playstyle, but they have quite a few problems:

 

* There's way too many pets, 55 in total. Pets are divided in 18 families, and members of the same families are almost identical.

* Pet skins are connected to specific beast skills, and you can't choose their skins freely. There's dozen of unavailable pet skins in the game as well.

* Pets aren't very engaging, having only one [beast skill](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beast) rangers can activate manually.

 

And this is my take on how to solve those issues:

 

* Unify beast skills and take the amount of pets down to 18, one per family. Redistribute [archetypes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Archetype) across the new pets.

* Transform the different pet models into cosmetic skins you can equip freely. Transform the missing NPC models into pet skins as well.

* Make beast skills more useful, and give each pet a second beast skill.

 

---

 

##Elite specialization mechanics and tradeoffs

 

The addition of a second beast skill changes the tradeoff situation, letting us take a new approach. This is what we have now:

 

* **Druid:** Gain **Celestial Avatar**, but your pet's attributes are weaker. Transform into a [Celestial Avatar](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Celestial_Avatar) to gain alternate weapon skills.

* **Soulbeast:** Gain **Beastmode**, but you cannot swap pets in combat. Activate [beastmode](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beastmode) to gain alternate mechanic skills.

 

And this would be the new version:

 

* **Druid:** Gain **Celestial Avatar** instead of **Beast skill #2**. Transform into a Celestial Avatar to gain alternate weapon skills and an alternate **Beast skill #1**.

* **Soulbeast:** Gain **Beastmode** instead of **Beast skill #2**. Activate Beastmode to gain alternate mechanic skills.

 

---

 

##Other changes

 

Few extra notes worth mentioning:

 

* Activating [Celestial Avatar](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Celestial_Avatar) will change your pet's appearance as well, turning it into an [astral creature](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Astral_creature). Internal pet skills mechanics and attributes won't be affected by this transformation.

* Swapping pets is now possible while [beastmode](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beastmode) is on. Beastmode's visual effect will change its color depending on the active archetype.

* Replace off-hand dagger with off-hand sword. Soulbeasts now gain the ability to wield daggers in both hands. Daggers will gain alternate weapon skills upon activation of Beastmode.

* Replace shortbow with rifle. Rename the Longbow weapon type back into just Bow. Remove the Shortbow weapon type, and integrate the orphaned weapons and skins into the Bow. [More on weapon type changes here.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/1074/new-weapon-types-study-knuckles-polearms-spears-relics-and-more/p1)

 

---

 

That's it, thanks for reading!

 

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> @""Lonami.2987"

> Just to keep you up to date.

> I am still working on my ranger rework.

> Part 1 pets are done.

> Currently working on core ranger.

>

> My elite spec ideas are a little bit fleshed out already.

>

> For druid i chose to give it a more revenant like feel to it.

> You have sun or moon form and your pet has the other.

> You can produce either sun or moon force up until you hit a max were you have to force swap.

> Sun is responsible for dmg and boons and moon is responsible for heal and CC.

>

> Petswap is replaced with aspect swap.

>

> F5 is still celestial avatar but has two forms too and is responsible for consuming astral force.

> While the utilities which are now aspects (like the herld utilities) and weaponskills generate said force.

> Goal is to juggle the energy and constantly generate it while consume it.

> Adapt on the fly and support your allies with boons and heals.

>

> Depending on moon or sun form your pets skills change and your mark skills do too.

>

> For soulbeast i do not chabge the mechanic very much except that you no longer have 2 pets and that you gain glyphs as utilities instead of stances, so your archetypes matters a bit more.

>

>

 

Did you ever get to finish it?

 

> @"Revolution.5409" said:

> I like the current status of the ranger, but if I could change something I would change.

> Core ranger:

> I would like to make changes to pets, I would like some pets to be faster in launching their skills (f2 wolf / birds for example) and that the user can use every skill of the pets whenever he wants, without relying on AI.

> The pet is part of our damage, but somehow they work as two separate subjects, the traits like Fortifying Bond should be reworked, I think it is wrong to have to choose a trait to share the boons with part of our damage, I add that the minor traits Marksman could get buffs because at the moment they are pretty useless.

> Druid:

> Restore Seed of Life, allow this ability to remove 2 conditions again, so as to give an alternative to WS for cleaning conditions and reviewing people using glyphs, Celestial avatar, I would remove the ground targetting from skill 1 and give a greater range of action at skills 2 and 4.

> I would not change anything at Soulbeast I like it. xD

>

> I hope in the future there is the possibility of obtaining a speclization without pets, I consider it almost impossible to make them competitive within zergs, it is the only plausible way in my opinion that we could obtain a valid zerg build.

 

If you're going for a soft redesign, I think removing the pet is pretty much unviable.

 

I think the best approach would be to reconfigure the pet swap and turn it into part of the primal rotation, similar to elementalist attunement swaps and revenant legend swaps.

 

> @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

> I would love to be able to customize pet appearance. Skins or even cosmetic armor pieces or something like that.

 

Check [this thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/114460/pet-management-panel-redesign-idea-wardrobe-for-pet-skins-plus-free-beast-skill-selection/p1), you might like it :D.

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