arenta.2953 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Been thinking about this topic a lot. What are some suggestions to get more people into the raiding game mode? > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > More groups and guilds that teach raid content with a patient and laid back atmosphere. Raids have a pretty bad reputation for being full of elitist and people raging over wipes. > > Raids are difficult, but difficult content is fun if you have people that can roll with the punches. ^ what Dahkeus says just thinking about raids puts a sour taste in my mouth due to how elitist people are in my memories of it. (the fact that the groups only want specific classes is just icing on top......at least with dungeons and fractals you can bring any. which opens up to alot more players) if people were more laid back, open to teaching less knowledgeable people, more accepting of mistakes and focused on the appeal of social over speed. Destiny 2 for PC i have good memories of the raids, as the groups generally accept that your going to wipe a few times, and will walk people through what they need to do. When, not if, but when you wipe. people laugh it off, joke, and prepare to go again but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes). when a community's response to new players is to kick them and tell them to go learn it on their own.....that really hurts the longevity of the content (hell not even EVE Online is that cruel. EVE values "Newbros" as celebrities, with entire corps of thousands dedicated to helping them learn and get involved) at this point, it might be to late for raids honestly. i think most people compare raids to elitism, so changing that opinion wont be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhiannon.1726 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"arenta.2953" said: > > but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes). You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie. I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run. There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid. **IMO this is the best way to start raiding.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenta.2953 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes). > > You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie. > > I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run. > > There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid. **IMO this is the best way to start raiding.** > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player. but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups. which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auri.1365 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"arenta.2953" said: > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" In every thread about raids being toxic and how hard it is to get into raids, ppl mention and post links of raid training guilds and discord groups and if someone in the aerodrom asks for advice he/she often gets the same advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenta.2953 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Auri.1365" said: > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" > > In every thread about raids being toxic and how hard it is to get into raids, ppl mention and post links of raid training guilds and discord groups and if someone in the aerodrom asks for advice he/she often gets the same advice. > > > didn't say threads, i said the people in game. not many people in game visit forums or reddit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Auri.1365" said: > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" > > In every thread about raids being toxic and how hard it is to get into raids, ppl mention and post links of raid training guilds and discord groups and if someone in the aerodrom asks for advice he/she often gets the same advice. > > > if LFG description says "1 BS, 1 chrono" it doesn't mean it's experienced group and I have no obligation to predict anything they didn't type if raiders are too lazy to write proper lfg descriptions, I can be too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auri.1365 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > if LFG description says "1 BS, 1 chrono" it doesn't mean it's experienced group and I have no obligation to predict anything they didn't type > > if raiders are too lazy to write proper lfg descriptions, I can be too I just had a look at the lfg: every entry says either x LI (and/or kp) or training. There aren't many entries that have neither. So you normally know what group you are getting into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Auri.1365" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > if LFG description says "1 BS, 1 chrono" it doesn't mean it's experienced group and I have no obligation to predict anything they didn't type > > > > if raiders are too lazy to write proper lfg descriptions, I can be too > > I just had a look at the lfg: every entry says either x LI (and/or kp) or training. There aren't many entries that have neither. So you normally know what group you are getting into. > > and such lfgs are not being complained about here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwelgm.4315 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Do raiders _want_ more people raiding? The player population (unlike WvW) seems to be satisfied with their current status. They don't want, for example, to deal with an influx of newbies they have to train/endure whenever they don't play with their statics. And the reason for this ironically is the same as the reason non-raiders give: they don't want to wait around and waste time dying for hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"maxwelgm.4315" said: > Do raiders _want_ more people raiding? The player population (unlike WvW) seems to be satisfied with their current status. They don't want, for example, to deal with an influx of newbies they have to train/endure whenever they don't play with their statics. And the reason for this ironically is the same as the reason non-raiders give: they don't want to wait around and waste time dying for hours. Just because a handful of raiders have that selfish mentality does not mean the rest of the raiding community does. There is a pretty huge difference between a player that wants to take the time and effort to get into the content vs one who just wants to be there and expects every group to carry them. I am more than happy enough to teach people that want to improve and ask a lot of question but if you show up to my static raid, deal 200 dps and then get mad when I either ask what build you are running or offer advice on your rotation then you do not belong in the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nash.2681 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Just talking about my PoV: being forced to assemble 10 ppl just to train raids is a big let down. I finished some VG and Escorts, but just thinking about having to gather 9 other ppl to even training the other raids- no thanks. For me- Fractals are the way to go, challenging, sometimes even hard, **5** (spelled out F I V E) man content- yes. Being forced to gather 9 like minded people- no thanks, out of eperience the average "not good enoug to raid and doesn't even bother to listen to constructive criticsm average" is way too much a waste of time for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"arenta.2953" said: > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > > > but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes). > > > > You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie. > > > > I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run. > > > > There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid. **IMO this is the best way to start raiding.** > > > > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" > > as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player. > > but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups. > > which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished. The problem isn’t advertising. The problem is lack of supply of people willing to hold and teach raids. I don’t doubt that anyone who is willing to teach raids can fill their group (I’m teaching raids for my guild and it fills easily, even though raiding is not a focus of my guild at all). And there’s two parts two the supply problem: A group can be led by 1 experienced person, but the more newbies you have, the more patient everyone needs to be since it will take longer to get a kill. On the other hand, a geoup can have veterans helping out to make the teaching smoother, but not only do less people learn, but it’s harder to find vets who are willing to help. But holding a teaching raid is tough. Running any raid is stressful enough, but a lot of people don’t take criticism well or just don’t want to compromise on their builds. Still, I wish more people would do it since it can also be really rewarding and can build some strong friendships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenta.2953 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > > > > > but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes). > > > > > > You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie. > > > > > > I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run. > > > > > > There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid. **IMO this is the best way to start raiding.** > > > > > > > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" > > > > as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player. > > > > but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups. > > > > which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished. > > The problem isn’t advertising. The problem is lack of supply of people willing to hold and teach raids. > > I don’t doubt that anyone who is willing to teach raids can fill their group (I’m teaching raids for my guild and it fills easily, even though raiding is not a focus of my guild at all). > > And there’s two parts two the supply problem: A group can be led by 1 experienced person, but the more newbies you have, the more patient everyone needs to be since it will take longer to get a kill. On the other hand, a geoup can have veterans helping out to make the teaching smoother, but not only do less people learn, but it’s harder to find vets who are willing to help. > > > But holding a teaching raid is tough. Running any raid is stressful enough, but a lot of people don’t take criticism well or just don’t want to compromise on their builds. Still, I wish more people would do it since it can also be really rewarding and can build some strong friendships. the same could be said of destiny 2's raid. or EVE Online in its entirety. this lack of willingness to be patient and bring people along (EVE Online tends to mix the vets with 1 newbie. or 1 vet with fleet of newbies. destiny 2 does 3:2 ratio) is what reinforces the point that Raids tend to be elitist. because thats the very thing that elitism means. lot of people want to try, but as long as the raid community maintains their reputation as elitist (even if not all are, enough are to give it that rep), few will try, and even fewer will stick around thus dooming raiding to die a long slow death of inbreeding between what members it has, while having little to no player retention for newcomers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Been thinking about this topic a lot. What are some suggestions to get more people into the raiding game mode? I don't see any good ones. If you make the content more enjoyable for potential new players, you will make it less enjoyable for many of the current raiders. If you find other ways to entice new players into the content _without_ making that content more enjoyable to them, however, you will create a lot of negative emotions (you can see this already). And you will not make those new people actually _like_ the content. In general, the only option is to get (somehow) more and more people into the game as a whole. Then, certain percentage of those will eventually end up in raids. Trying to increase that percentage without changing the nature of the content however is in the long run going to harm that content (and game as a whole). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"arenta.2953" said: > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > > > > > > > but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes). > > > > > > > > You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie. > > > > > > > > I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run. > > > > > > > > There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid. **IMO this is the best way to start raiding.** > > > > > > > > > > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" > > > > > > as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player. > > > > > > but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups. > > > > > > which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished. > > > > The problem isn’t advertising. The problem is lack of supply of people willing to hold and teach raids. > > > > I don’t doubt that anyone who is willing to teach raids can fill their group (I’m teaching raids for my guild and it fills easily, even though raiding is not a focus of my guild at all). > > > > And there’s two parts two the supply problem: A group can be led by 1 experienced person, but the more newbies you have, the more patient everyone needs to be since it will take longer to get a kill. On the other hand, a geoup can have veterans helping out to make the teaching smoother, but not only do less people learn, but it’s harder to find vets who are willing to help. > > > > > > But holding a teaching raid is tough. Running any raid is stressful enough, but a lot of people don’t take criticism well or just don’t want to compromise on their builds. Still, I wish more people would do it since it can also be really rewarding and can build some strong friendships. > > the same could be said of destiny 2's raid. > > or EVE Online in its entirety. > > this lack of willingness to be patient and bring people along (EVE Online tends to mix the vets with 1 newbie. or 1 vet with fleet of newbies. destiny 2 does 3:2 ratio) is what reinforces the point that Raids tend to be elitist. > > because thats the very thing that elitism means. > > lot of people want to try, but as long as the raid community maintains their reputation as elitist (even if not all are, enough are to give it that rep), few will try, and even fewer will stick around > > thus dooming raiding to die a long slow death of inbreeding between what members it has, while having little to no player retention for newcomers > > There’s truth in this, but there’s also truth missing. The raid community isn’t the only cause of the divide. There are also a lot of players with a sense of entitlement to both community and content who leave raiders feeling bitter towards newcomers. I don’t mean this as a stereotype towards newcomers because this doesn’t describe most non-raiders who want to try the content. However, it only takes a few bad apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > As a non raider, the thing keeping me out is purely time. I'm up for a fun challenge, but dedicating any chunk of my day to other people on the internet isn't going to happen. Judging from the overwhelming poll spam on this subject, I think it may be an insurmountable challenge. I've had lots of people offer to teach me to raid after they see I'm competent in a random fractal or WvW duel or whatever, but I just am not going to put in the time to learn. It's a big commitment and a large portion of the game's population has kids or demanding jobs. > > TLDR: Raids may have already attracted most of the people who _can_ raid. This in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenta.2953 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > > > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes). > > > > > > > > > > You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie. > > > > > > > > > > I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run. > > > > > > > > > > There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid. **IMO this is the best way to start raiding.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" > > > > > > > > as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player. > > > > > > > > but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups. > > > > > > > > which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished. > > > > > > The problem isn’t advertising. The problem is lack of supply of people willing to hold and teach raids. > > > > > > I don’t doubt that anyone who is willing to teach raids can fill their group (I’m teaching raids for my guild and it fills easily, even though raiding is not a focus of my guild at all). > > > > > > And there’s two parts two the supply problem: A group can be led by 1 experienced person, but the more newbies you have, the more patient everyone needs to be since it will take longer to get a kill. On the other hand, a geoup can have veterans helping out to make the teaching smoother, but not only do less people learn, but it’s harder to find vets who are willing to help. > > > > > > > > > But holding a teaching raid is tough. Running any raid is stressful enough, but a lot of people don’t take criticism well or just don’t want to compromise on their builds. Still, I wish more people would do it since it can also be really rewarding and can build some strong friendships. > > > > the same could be said of destiny 2's raid. > > > > or EVE Online in its entirety. > > > > this lack of willingness to be patient and bring people along (EVE Online tends to mix the vets with 1 newbie. or 1 vet with fleet of newbies. destiny 2 does 3:2 ratio) is what reinforces the point that Raids tend to be elitist. > > > > because thats the very thing that elitism means. > > > > lot of people want to try, but as long as the raid community maintains their reputation as elitist (even if not all are, enough are to give it that rep), few will try, and even fewer will stick around > > > > thus dooming raiding to die a long slow death of inbreeding between what members it has, while having little to no player retention for newcomers > > > > > > There’s truth in this, but there’s also truth missing. The raid community isn’t the only cause of the divide. There are also a lot of players with a sense of entitlement to both community and content who leave raiders feeling bitter towards newcomers. > > I don’t mean this as a stereotype towards newcomers because this doesn’t describe most non-raiders who want to try the content. However, it only takes a few bad apples. > > aye, your right as well. but in the end, the best thing to do is to ignore the entitled newcomers and keep optimistic for the true Newbros. in EVE, they got a simple solution for those entitled. its called the FC accidently called them priority target xD pitty we can't do that here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > As a non raider, the thing keeping me out is purely time. I'm up for a fun challenge, but dedicating any chunk of my day to other people on the internet isn't going to happen. Judging from the overwhelming poll spam on this subject, I think it may be an insurmountable challenge. I've had lots of people offer to teach me to raid after they see I'm competent in a random fractal or WvW duel or whatever, but I just am not going to put in the time to learn. It's a big commitment and a large portion of the game's population has kids or demanding jobs. > > > > TLDR: Raids may have already attracted most of the people who _can_ raid. > > This in a nutshell. Fair answer. Do you agree the game still offer enough for you without fractal and raids? Or would you be looking forward for any change? I mean do you have any wish list for any changes you like to see in fractal or raids that will attract more players to join. I am always curious as to what do you guys do as well, as I spend most of my weekly gaming time on t4, 2g dailies and once a week raid, bit and pieces achievement hunt :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > Fair answer. > Do you agree the game still offer enough for you without fractal and raids? Or would you be looking forward for any change? I mean do you have any wish list if you are not into fractal or raids. I am always curious as to what do you guys do, as I spend most of my weekly gaming time on t4, 2g dailies and once a week raid, bit and pieces achievement hunt :P Full disclosure: I HATE fractals and raiding. But for me? Yes, PvE, seasonal, and Living World content is more than enough. Wish there was that steady stream of every month, back in the day, but I'm good. I'm kind of liking the downtime between episodes to be honest. Log in, get my dailies, and be done. But I'm older now, and I don't have the free time I used to. Also, I'm not feeling the need to chase down every achievement anymore. That took a lot of my time prior, but these days? Meh. Life is too short to chase after an electronic nothing. I know this isn't the answer ANet wants to hear, but the downtime allows me time to play other games and do other things. And that's not a bad thing. Burnout killed a lot of my previous interests with MMOs. When a game becomes a job to keep up, it's time for another game. But that's another discussion. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > Fair answer. > > Do you agree the game still offer enough for you without fractal and raids? Or would you be looking forward for any change? I mean do you have any wish list if you are not into fractal or raids. I am always curious as to what do you guys do, as I spend most of my weekly gaming time on t4, 2g dailies and once a week raid, bit and pieces achievement hunt :P > > Full disclosure: I HATE fractals and raiding. But for me? Yes, PvE, seasonal, and Living World content is more than enough. Wish there was that steady stream of every month, back in the day, but I'm good. I'm kind of liking the downtime between episodes to be honest. Log in, get my dailies, and be done. But I'm older now, and I don't have the free time I used to. Also, I'm not feeling the need to chase down every achievement anymore. That took a lot of my time prior, but these days? Meh. Life is too short to chase after an electronic nothing. > > I know this isn't the answer ANet wants to hear, but the downtime allows me time to play other games and do other things. And that's not a bad thing. Burnout killed a lot of my previous interests with MMOs. When a game becomes a job to keep up, it's time for another game. > > But that's another discussion. :) How true and thanks for the response. :) I probably should take what you said as an advise.. cutting down the hours and crazy achievements hunting.. that obsession ..at the end of the day it is just an electronic nothing! :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > Fair answer. > > Do you agree the game still offer enough for you without fractal and raids? Or would you be looking forward for any change? I mean do you have any wish list if you are not into fractal or raids. I am always curious as to what do you guys do, as I spend most of my weekly gaming time on t4, 2g dailies and once a week raid, bit and pieces achievement hunt :P > > Full disclosure: I HATE fractals and raiding. But for me? Yes, PvE, seasonal, and Living World content is more than enough. Wish there was that steady stream of every month, back in the day, but I'm good. I'm kind of liking the downtime between episodes to be honest. Log in, get my dailies, and be done. But I'm older now, and I don't have the free time I used to. Also, I'm not feeling the need to chase down every achievement anymore. That took a lot of my time prior, but these days? Meh. Life is too short to chase after an electronic nothing. > > I know this isn't the answer ANet wants to hear, but the downtime allows me time to play other games and do other things. And that's not a bad thing. Burnout killed a lot of my previous interests with MMOs. When a game becomes a job to keep up, it's time for another game. > > But that's another discussion. :) Devs have spoken up in the past that they think it’s good for players to bounce around with other games. I mean, they made an MMO that’s really easy to take a break from and they have a good system that encourages players to make occasional log ins (I.e. logging in to obtain the current section of living world without needing to purchase). Personally, I think this is a great design since taking periodic breaks from the game allows players to keep up a long term relationship without getting too burnt out. I mean, I played WoW regularly, but it was really tough to return to after I took a break. Not only was I under-geared and under-leveled for everything, but the admins I relied on for my UI were all broken and outdated as well. For a GW2 player, you can jump back into pretty much everything after a long break and only need maybe a bit of a tweak to your build for things like raids. That’s pretty unheard of in MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwelgm.4315 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Vulf.3098" said: > > @"maxwelgm.4315" said: > > Do raiders _want_ more people raiding? The player population (unlike WvW) seems to be satisfied with their current status. They don't want, for example, to deal with an influx of newbies they have to train/endure whenever they don't play with their statics. And the reason for this ironically is the same as the reason non-raiders give: they don't want to wait around and waste time dying for hours. > > Just because a handful of raiders have that selfish mentality does not mean the rest of the raiding community does. > > There is a pretty huge difference between a player that wants to take the time and effort to get into the content vs one who just wants to be there and expects every group to carry them. > > I am more than happy enough to teach people that want to improve and ask a lot of question but if you show up to my static raid, deal 200 dps and then get mad when I either ask what build you are running or offer advice on your rotation then you do not belong in the content. To be honest, this just goes back to the answer above that says "Those who _can_ raid, are probably already doing so". Whatever new players you get are probably going to be the kind of people you say "doesn't belong in the content" much more often than not. The mass of people who were happy to be taught and (emphasis here) **take the time** and effort to get into the content, already did. A more appropriate questions instead of my first one, might then be: is it okay if more raids are released in the future but population stays the same? Are statics that much reliable that population is not going to spread out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewaterguy.4796 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > More groups and guilds that teach raid content with a patient and laid back atmosphere. Raids have a pretty bad reputation for being full of elitist and people raging over wipes. > > Raids are difficult, but difficult content is fun if you have people that can roll with the punches. I can tell you as a non-raider this is the only thing that keeps me out of raiding, I wouldn't demand an easier difficulty so I can experience the content and story if the Raid Community wasn't so damn Stuck up all the time EDIT: And don't get me wrong I'm sure its not the entire Raid community but that's the impression I get whenever I get anywhere close to raiding, they want you to run the build they want and the gearset they want and they aren't at all interested taking on a good but not meta build, the focus isn't on experiencing the mechanics and having fun, its taken super serious Kill the boss in record time and have the highest dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewaterguy.4796 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > > > > @"arenta.2953" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes). > > > > > > > > > > You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie. > > > > > > > > > > I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run. > > > > > > > > > > There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid. **IMO this is the best way to start raiding.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube" > > > > > > > > as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player. > > > > > > > > but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups. > > > > > > > > which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished. > > > > > > The problem isn’t advertising. The problem is lack of supply of people willing to hold and teach raids. > > > > > > I don’t doubt that anyone who is willing to teach raids can fill their group (I’m teaching raids for my guild and it fills easily, even though raiding is not a focus of my guild at all). > > > > > > And there’s two parts two the supply problem: A group can be led by 1 experienced person, but the more newbies you have, the more patient everyone needs to be since it will take longer to get a kill. On the other hand, a geoup can have veterans helping out to make the teaching smoother, but not only do less people learn, but it’s harder to find vets who are willing to help. > > > > > > > > > But holding a teaching raid is tough. Running any raid is stressful enough, but a lot of people don’t take criticism well or just don’t want to compromise on their builds. Still, I wish more people would do it since it can also be really rewarding and can build some strong friendships. > > > > the same could be said of destiny 2's raid. > > > > or EVE Online in its entirety. > > > > this lack of willingness to be patient and bring people along (EVE Online tends to mix the vets with 1 newbie. or 1 vet with fleet of newbies. destiny 2 does 3:2 ratio) is what reinforces the point that Raids tend to be elitist. > > > > because thats the very thing that elitism means. > > > > lot of people want to try, but as long as the raid community maintains their reputation as elitist (even if not all are, enough are to give it that rep), few will try, and even fewer will stick around > > > > thus dooming raiding to die a long slow death of inbreeding between what members it has, while having little to no player retention for newcomers > > > > > > There’s truth in this, but there’s also truth missing. The raid community isn’t the only cause of the divide. There are also a lot of players with a sense of entitlement to both community and content who leave raiders feeling bitter towards newcomers. > > I don’t mean this as a stereotype towards newcomers because this doesn’t describe most non-raiders who want to try the content. However, it only takes a few bad apples. > > Entitlement is a stupid word, what is wrong with wanting to experience new content? As far as I've seen, people like me aren't asking for the same rewards we just want to be able to experience the mechanics and story of the raids, maybe if the raiding community wasn't taking the gamemode so damn seriously and was willing to be more flexible and maybe *gasp* let people try out some non-meta builds, we wouldn't need an easier version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunarlife.5128 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Better graphics control and maybe timers or better indicators. I think a lot of why raids are not liked is because their beginnings aren't designed well. I can understand why Sabetha, Mat, X, etc, are difficult. I can't understand why Cairn is harder than MO, Gorseval being buffed massively, Vale Guardian being buffed, Sloth being harder than Bandits, etc. First bosses should be easier than 2nd bosses and some, not all, but some first bosses should be killable within reason. I've been in guilds that took months to kill Vale Guardian or have simply given up. I don't think there a raid boss in GW2 that is a good starter boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now