Nerf Resistance and Nerf Condi Removal

[SuperKorean.7345]

**Protection vs Resistance**

Protection reduces only 33% of Power Damage

Resistance reduces 100% of Condition Damage

Resistance is too overpowered compared to Protection

Make Resistance reduce only 33% of Condition Damage

During Pof Demo , I have seen so many perma-Resistance Spellbreakers and perma-Resistance Renegades

Nerf those perma-Resistance builds

Reduce the cooldowns of boon removals so that Resistance can be removed more frequently

 

**Condi Removal**

Condition Damage can be removed and Power Damage cannot be removed

There are some skills and traits that can ignore Power Damage but the cooldowns are way longer compared to Condi Removal

Increase the cooldowns of Condi Removal traits and skills

All Condi Removal cooldowns should be doubled or tripled

ex) Rune of Soldier - Shouts remove condition (Internal cooldown 30 seconds)

 

**Power builds vs Condition builds**

I have never been to low rating , but I heard that Condition Damage is doing fine in low rating

But in high rating , only 2~3 classes can go Condi builds and 6~7 classes are forced to go Power builds

All 9 classes should be able to choose between Condi builds and Power builds

Buff Condtion Damage so that Condition builds can perform as good as Power builds in high rating

 

 

[Chaith.8256]

Oh god now you've gone and done it, run for your life OP. 90% of the forum posts in PvP in 2017 are about nerfing conditions

[Shirlias.8104]

Wtf did i just read.

[Kuya.6495]

can we not nerf anything until the new elites hit, please?

[ibThuggin.1758]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> can we not nerf anything until the new elites hit, please?

 

Well that's basically 100% confirmed unless they pull some magic balance patch out of Mike O'Brian's anus I doubt that though.

[Glott.7239]

Actually both boons shout be Stacking intensity up to 25 stacks and reduce their respective damage type by 5% per stack. "but that adds up to over 100%" you say? right, because of vulnerability wich increases both types by 1% to a max of 25%. If that's done you can go ahead an change a lot of invulnerability skills to give 25 stacks of resistance, protection and stability instead and change most boon striping skills to remove numbers of stack rather then an entire boon. Block frames should be handelt in a similar fashion by granting stacks of aegis, rather then block everything for X amount of time.

 

After you done all of that you watch the server screaming for merry, while it slowly dies under the load and everyone's FPS drop into the singel digits.

[Abelisk.4527]

You realize that resistance is the equivalent to invulnerability? When you're invulnerable condis still hurt you.

 

You know why condi clears exist? Because condis tick **over time**, and can deal damage **anywhere**. You could unleash Plaguelands, run a mile away, and still do damage because that's how condis work.

 

The reason why 3 classes have decent condi builds (mes/necro/thief) is because the rest don't stack enough cover condi (ele/guard/revenant) or have lower sustain (engi/warr/ranger).

 

Yes, necro has lower sustain too but it pays the price with even stronger condi and boon corrupt.

 

Mes has okayish cover condi, but what makes mes shine is its ability to constantly stream shatters/condi, as well as have decent sustain. Thief has arguably the biggest condi burst out of all the builds, and has good mobility.

 

Ele could use more covers (Tempestrious Aria = weakness, confusion, cripple maybe?) and Arcane Precision can get a rework, update GoEP by buffing it. Arcane Power is basically a GoEP clone--make it stand out. Give it two condis per attack. Heck, make every Arcane attack give two condi types. Or maybe do that for GoEP instead.

 

Guard, fortunately, seems to be getting cover condi with Firebrand. Excited for that.

 

Revenant needs more than bleeds and torment to suffice. Needs easier ways of poison application, needs immob, needs more burn procs, and perhaps Fear in there somewhere? Mallyx is all about fear and darkness.

 

While Engi is pretty good for dealing condi, a few stunbreaks/condi cleanses and all that rotations worth of condi damage is gone... plus, the sustain is kinda low. For Engi I feel like the gap between condi app is too large and clunky.

 

And for Ranger, you either have condi, or you don't problem. If you try making a balance of condi and sustain, it'll be suboptimal. Try going full condi, you die quickly. Go sustain, your condis hit like wet noodle.

 

Maybe the elite specs will change the game, we'll see.

 

 

[OriOri.8724]

Resistance needs toning down. Its much too strong for how much access there is. Resistance should provide either immunity to control/secondary effects (secondary effects being glancing blows, healing reduction from poison etc...) and at best a **_partial_** damage reduction from conditions (no more than 20-25%), or it should provide ~75% reduction in damage from conditions, but not immunity from control/secondary effects. Condition application should be adjusted to match this change to resistance of course.

 

But as it is, complete immunity to both damage from conditions as well as control effects from them is just too broken for a single boon.

[Eventine.8024]

> @SuperKorean.7345 said:

> **Protection vs Resistance**

> Protection reduces only 33% of Power Damage

> Resistance reduces 100% of Condition Damage

> Resistance is too overpowered compared to Protection

> Make Resistance reduce only 33% of Condition Damage

> During Pof Demo , I have seen so many perma-Resistance Spellbreakers and perma-Resistance Renegades

> Nerf those perma-Resistance builds

> Reduce the cooldowns of boon removals so that Resistance can be removed more frequently

>

> **Condi Removal**

> Condition Damage can be removed and Power Damage cannot be removed

> There are some skills and traits that can ignore Power Damage but the cooldowns are way longer compared to Condi Removal

> Increase the cooldowns of Condi Removal traits and skills

> All Condi Removal cooldowns should be doubled or tripled

> ex) Rune of Soldier - Shouts remove condition (Internal cooldown 30 seconds)

>

> **Power builds vs Condition builds**

> I have never been to low rating , but I heard that Condition Damage is doing fine in low rating

> But in high rating , only 2~3 classes can go Condi builds and 6~7 classes are forced to go Power builds

> All 9 classes should be able to choose between Condi builds and Power builds

> Buff Condtion Damage so that Condition builds can perform as good as Power builds in high rating

>

>

 

Are you serious or is it a troll? Because you are right, Resistance is like Invulnerability, but have seen condi thief? or condi necro? How many condi remove we have but resistance? Really low. And generally resistance last 1-2 seconds only. I have thief that kills me in 1 LITTERALLY 1 sec of conditions. I run a full condi build too, and I'm never worried about resistance, but ONLY about other condition builds. So, to recap, I should be on your side, being a condition build, but I'm totally not. Moreover conditions needs only 1 stat, damage needs 3, and you DO MORE DAMAGE with condi than with physical damage. I think they should double the lenght of every resistance boon (except mabe warrior, you add something but maybe not double), or nerf conditions, if not in PvE, at least in PvP and WvW. It's benn 2 weeks, in WvW I ONLY see Condi roamers (rev, thieves, necros, druids, all condi): is this normal? acceptable?

MOREOVER resistance can be rip off, invulnerability not, (and for example, ele has no unblockable attacks, so....). How can you seriously say a thing like this?

 

Please answer what bugs you about resistance, because I have a full list of things that annoy me about condi.

Sorry If I answer quite mad, but (for my thoughs, my pov, i'm not accusing you of anything) is like you are asking ANET to steal bread from hugry ppl.

[Eiffel.8937]

actually they should just remove dmg conditions completly as its impossible to balance them anyway :-p

[Eventine.8024]

Moreover more: physical damage can be lowered by toughness: what about condi?

[nicknamenick.2437]

@Eventine.8024 said:

> Moreover more: physical damage can be lowered by toughness: what about condi?

 

indeed.. add weakness also

[SuperKorean.7345]

> @Eventine.8024 said:

> Moreover more: physical damage can be lowered by toughness: what about condi?

 

 

"+1000 toughness" reduce only about ~33% of Power Damage

 

"Protection" reduce only 33% of Power Damage

 

"+1000 toughness" + "Protection" reduce only about ~55% of Power Damage

 

Resistance reduce 100% of Condition Damage

 

If you gonna insist that Power damage can be lowered by toughness, Resistance should reduce Condition Damage by 55%

 

----------

 

Let's make this fair

 

"+1000 toughness" = reduce Power damage and Condition damage by 33%

 

"Protection" = reduce Power damage by 33%

 

"Resistance" = reduce Condition damage by 33%

 

OR

 

"+1000 toughness" = reduce Power damage and Condition damage by 33%

 

"Protection" = reduce Power damage by 100%

 

"Resistance" = reduce Condition damage by 100%

 

----------

 

 

Condition Damage can be removed and Power Damage cannot be removed

 

There are some skills and traits that can ignore Power Damage but the cooldowns are way longer compared to Condi Removal

 

Increase the cooldowns of Condi Removal traits and skills

 

All Condi Removal cooldowns should be doubled or tripled

 

**"Power Removal" should be added to this game**

 

When you use your "Power Removal" skill, you cancel all the Power damage that you received 1 second ago

 

Every class should have access to "Power Removal" with low cooldowns

 

 

 

 

 

[SuperKorean.7345]

> @nicknamenick.2437 said:

> @Eventine.8024 said:

> > Moreover more: physical damage can be lowered by toughness: what about condi?

>

> indeed.. add weakness also

 

Thank you for bringing this up

 

Weakness should reduce Condition Damage also

 

Make Weakness reduce Condtion Damage by 50% per second and Make Resistance reduce Condtion Damage by 33% per second

 

Weakness + Resistance = reduce Condtion Damage by 66% per second

 

Resistance should not reduce Condtion Damage by 100% all by itself

 

Make Weakness reduce Condtion Damage by 50% and Make Resistance reduce Condtion Damage by 33%

 

 

[SuperKorean.7345]

> @Eiffel.8937 said:

> actually they should just remove dmg conditions completly as its impossible to balance them anyway :-p

 

 

If Condition damage is removed completely , do you know what's gonna happen next ?

 

Let me give you one example =

 

When I play bunker Druid or bunker Tempest , all my traits and skills are focused around removing Condi

 

If Condition damage is removed completely , do you know what I am gonna do ?

 

I am gonna go for Anti-Power damage build with lotta protection and lotta weakness.

 

The reason why we Bunkers are killable is because we bunkers must choose between Anti-Power / Anti-Condi

 

If we Bunkers go Anti-Condi , we get killed by Power damage

 

If we Bunkers go Anti-Power , we get killed by Condi damage

 

If we Bunkers mix Anti-Condi + Anti-Power , we are Jack of all trades, master of none

 

If Condition damage is removed completely , this means we bunker players do not have to worry about Condi damage

 

If Condition damage is removed completely , this means we bunker players can go Full-Anti-Power

 

We bunkers will not bring any Anti-Condi traits

 

We bunkers will not bring any Anti-Condi skills

 

We bunkers will go FULL-Anti-Power

 

We bunkers will take FULL-Anti-Power traits with Cavalier / Knight / Demolisher / Paladin Amulet

 

RIP diversity

 

[Evil.1580]

remove power dmg and condition dmg

 

and remove everything else

[SuperKorean.7345]

> @Eventine.8024 said:

> > @SuperKorean.7345 said:

> > **Protection vs Resistance**

> > Protection reduces only 33% of Power Damage

> > Resistance reduces 100% of Condition Damage

> > Resistance is too overpowered compared to Protection

> > Make Resistance reduce only 33% of Condition Damage

> > During Pof Demo , I have seen so many perma-Resistance Spellbreakers and perma-Resistance Renegades

> > Nerf those perma-Resistance builds

> > Reduce the cooldowns of boon removals so that Resistance can be removed more frequently

> >

> > **Condi Removal**

> > Condition Damage can be removed and Power Damage cannot be removed

> > There are some skills and traits that can ignore Power Damage but the cooldowns are way longer compared to Condi Removal

> > Increase the cooldowns of Condi Removal traits and skills

> > All Condi Removal cooldowns should be doubled or tripled

> > ex) Rune of Soldier - Shouts remove condition (Internal cooldown 30 seconds)

> >

> > **Power builds vs Condition builds**

> > I have never been to low rating , but I heard that Condition Damage is doing fine in low rating

> > But in high rating , only 2~3 classes can go Condi builds and 6~7 classes are forced to go Power builds

> > All 9 classes should be able to choose between Condi builds and Power builds

> > Buff Condtion Damage so that Condition builds can perform as good as Power builds in high rating

> >

> >

>

> Are you serious or is it a troll? Because you are right, Resistance is like Invulnerability, but have seen condi thief? or condi necro? How many condi remove we have but resistance? Really low. And generally resistance last 1-2 seconds only. I have thief that kills me in 1 LITTERALLY 1 sec of conditions. I run a full condi build too, and I'm never worried about resistance, but ONLY about other condition builds. So, to recap, I should be on your side, being a condition build, but I'm totally not. Moreover conditions needs only 1 stat, damage needs 3, and you DO MORE DAMAGE with condi than with physical damage. I think they should double the lenght of every resistance boon (except mabe warrior, you add something but maybe not double), or nerf conditions, if not in PvE, at least in PvP and WvW. It's benn 2 weeks, in WvW I ONLY see Condi roamers (rev, thieves, necros, druids, all condi): is this normal? acceptable?

> MOREOVER resistance can be rip off, invulnerability not, (and for example, ele has no unblockable attacks, so....). How can you seriously say a thing like this?

>

> Please answer what bugs you about resistance, because I have a full list of things that annoy me about condi.

> Sorry If I answer quite mad, but (for my thoughs, my pov, i'm not accusing you of anything) is like you are asking ANET to steal bread from hugry ppl.

 

I will answer what bugs me about Resistance

 

Here is my answer =

 

During PoF demo, I have encountered many Spellbreakers and many Renegades that had perma Resistance

 

So, I made a Spellbreaker and a Renegade for myself

 

I was able to maintain Resistance for about 90% of the time

 

which means my Spellbreaker and my Renegade is immune to Condition Damage for about 90% of the time

 

Are there any builds that gives you immunity to Power damage for more than 90% of the time ?

 

To check this out , I made a Anti-Power damage Soulbeast.

 

My Anti-Power damage Soulbeast was able to be immune to Power damage for about 33% of the time

 

My Anti-Power damage Soulbeast can be immune to Power damage for about 20 seconds but it must wait about 40 seconds for cooldowns

 

Let me give you exact number=

 

My Anti-Power damage Soulbeast can be immune to Power damage for 19.25 seconds

 

but it must wait for 40 seconds or more to go back into immunity to Power damage

 

ex) Signet of Stone cooldown is 80 seconds

 

My friend played Condi-Weaver and Condi-Firebrand during demo

 

We had a few duels to test out our builds

 

and my Spellbreaker and my Renegade were taking 0 damage from Condi-Weaver and Condi-Firebrand

 

I asked my friend to use boon removal sigil, but it did not help at all

 

Even if the Resistance is removed successfully , Resistance can be re-apply short after

 

Literally , my hit point did not go down

 

It's not just Spellbreaker and Renegade , every class has too many Condi Removals

 

There are only 2~3 classes that can constantly re-apply Conditions after all the Condi Removals are used

 

Current state, Condi Removals counter Conditions completely in high rating

 

With the new PoF specs , Resistance will shut down Conditions completely

 

How would you counter a build that takes 0 damage from you ?

 

This is not learn to play issue

 

Now it's your turn to answer my question

 

Here is my question =

 

Are there any builds that gives you immunity to Power damage for more than 90% of the time ?

 

Do you really think it is fair to have immunity to Condtion damage for more than 90% of the time ?

 

With the new PoF , do you think Condi builds will perform as good as Power builds in high rating ?

[SuperKorean.7345]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> Resistance needs toning down. Its much too strong for how much access there is. Resistance should provide either immunity to control/secondary effects (secondary effects being glancing blows, healing reduction from poison etc...) and at best a **_partial_** damage reduction from conditions (no more than 20-25%), or it should provide ~75% reduction in damage from conditions, but not immunity from control/secondary effects. Condition application should be adjusted to match this change to resistance of course.

>

> But as it is, complete immunity to both damage from conditions as well as control effects from them is just too broken for a single boon.

 

I totally agree with you.

 

Resistance needs toning down. indeed.

 

[SuperKorean.7345]

> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> The reason why 3 classes have decent condi builds (mes/necro/thief) is because the rest don't stack enough cover condi (ele/guard/revenant) or have lower sustain (engi/warr/ranger).

>

> Yes, necro has lower sustain too but it pays the price with even stronger condi and boon corrupt.

>

> Mes has okayish cover condi, but what makes mes shine is its ability to constantly stream shatters/condi, as well as have decent sustain. Thief has arguably the biggest condi burst out of all the builds, and has good mobility.

>

> Ele could use more covers (Tempestrious Aria = weakness, confusion, cripple maybe?) and Arcane Precision can get a rework, update GoEP by buffing it. Arcane Power is basically a GoEP clone--make it stand out. Give it two condis per attack. Heck, make every Arcane attack give two condi types. Or maybe do that for GoEP instead.

>

> Guard, fortunately, seems to be getting cover condi with Firebrand. Excited for that.

>

> Revenant needs more than bleeds and torment to suffice. Needs easier ways of poison application, needs immob, needs more burn procs, and perhaps Fear in there somewhere? Mallyx is all about fear and darkness.

>

> While Engi is pretty good for dealing condi, a few stunbreaks/condi cleanses and all that rotations worth of condi damage is gone... plus, the sustain is kinda low. For Engi I feel like the gap between condi app is too large and clunky.

>

> And for Ranger, you either have condi, or you don't problem. If you try making a balance of condi and sustain, it'll be suboptimal. Try going full condi, you die quickly. Go sustain, your condis hit like wet noodle.

>

> Maybe the elite specs will change the game, we'll see.

>

>

 

I totally agree with you.

 

All 9 classes should have access to viable Condi builds. indeed.