EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Oi Know you guys are tired of seeing me post but...help me out According to the tooltip Retaliation is supposed to reflect damage. Does that mean that I am not supposed to receive damage while Retaliation is up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Moonfang.6897 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 "Retaliation is a boon that damages anyone who hits the affected target. The attacker will not be damaged if the attack fails to hit. Retaliation does not reduce or prevent damage taken." https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation Might want to try the wikia, you can find most general information there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Thanks Barry. I was using axe 5 and Dolyak Stance and really scratching my head. Retaliation (6s): Reflect incoming damage back to its source. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance By their tooltip description/definition it certainly sounds like the Player with Retaliation would NOT be damaged. I know what Reflect means. Does ANET? 1. throw back (heat, light, or sound) without absorbing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durzlla.6295 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > Oi Know you guys are tired of seeing me post but...help me out > > According to the tooltip Retaliation is supposed to reflect damage. > Does that mean that I am not supposed to receive damage while Retaliation is up? > > Oh man is the ingame tooltip for retal that misleading? No it just deals damage to your attacker whenever you’re hit. however one nifty trick is if damage is redirected to another source IE Guard, and both have retal the attacker will take double retal damage. EX: you and your pet both have retaliation, you use Guard, someone attacks you, they take double retal damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlater.6789 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 My understanding is that in the early days retaliation used to do as you say, it used to reflect all incoming damage back to the Attacker. However it was super broken like that, especially in WvW where you used to be able to blast light fields for very good retalliation uptime on everyone. So then they made it less broken by making it is what it is now. IMO it probably needs a balance pass, I feel like it could be a lot stronger. Especially that it was rebalanced around the power level of core specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 > @"Durzlla.6295" said: > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > Oi Know you guys are tired of seeing me post but...help me out > > > > According to the tooltip Retaliation is supposed to reflect damage. > > Does that mean that I am not supposed to receive damage while Retaliation is up? > > > > > > Oh man is the ingame tooltip for retal that misleading? > > No it just deals damage to your attacker whenever you’re hit. > > however one nifty trick is if damage is redirected to another source IE Guard, and both have retal the attacker will take double retal damage. > > EX: you and your pet both have retaliation, you use Guard, someone attacks you, they take double retal damage. > Thank you for the Guard tip. Gonna try something out!--and NOPE. No double retal damage because Guard doesn't have retal. And onto.. "Is it that misleading?" YES It says reflects dmg. What does reflect mean to you? If Im playing The Witcher or Fallout or any fantasy based game and I read an ability that says it 'reflects' for 3 secs and in those 3 secs I take damage.....well shit, what's getting reflected? When wonder woman reflects a bullet off her magical vambraces, does she get shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durzlla.6295 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Yeah no I’m with you, whenever something says reflect I assume I’m not taking the damage lol, man it’s been forever since I’ve read the tooltip for retal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > My understanding is that in the early days retaliation used to do as you say, it used to reflect all incoming damage back to the Attacker. However it was super broken like that, especially in WvW where you used to be able to blast light fields for very good retalliation uptime on everyone. So then they made it less broken by making it is what it is now. > > IMO it probably needs a balance pass, I feel like it could be a lot stronger. Especially that it was rebalanced around the power level of core specs. Passive damage does *not* need to be stronger, at least in competitive settings like sPvP and WvW. The last thing those game modes need is more of the game/build/gear playing for the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 > @"Durzlla.6295" said: > Yeah no I’m with you, whenever something says reflect I assume I’m not taking the damage lol, man it’s been forever since I’ve read the tooltip for retal. me too, I was just fking around checking my build and trying to change some stuff out. So you know how it goes, Im looking at changing a few utilities, looking to shore up my build and I notice that axe 5 has retal....hmm interesting. And then also Dolyak stance ALSO has STAB and retal--holy crap...this might be amazing. I go into spvp, fight the npcs and Im getting the shit beat out of me for the 4 or 6 secs of retal (reflect) that I have up. and well...here I show up confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > My understanding is that in the early days retaliation used to do as you say, it used to reflect all incoming damage back to the Attacker. However it was super broken like that, especially in WvW where you used to be able to blast light fields for very good retalliation uptime on everyone. So then they made it less broken by making it is what it is now. > > > > IMO it probably needs a balance pass, I feel like it could be a lot stronger. Especially that it was rebalanced around the power level of core specs. > > Passive damage does *not* need to be stronger, at least in competitive settings like sPvP and WvW. The last thing those game modes need is more of the game/build/gear playing for the player. I kind of agree/disagree. Using retal with a utility is slightly passive. It's not like there is a retaliation trait that allows you to walk to mid and not take any dmg for said amount of seconds. The only way I think retal (like Im expecting) would work is **_IF_** Retal worked like it should (unless they change the tooltip) and **_IF _**there was a easy visual tell that the person was reflecting dmg. Personally, I'd be happy if I TOOK NO DAMAGE like a reflect should work-- and a percentage of the attackers dmg was done back to them. But since there is no easy visual tell, players can mindlessly go ham on you anytime they want to and why would we want pvp to be more cerebral than the button mashing shit that it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 There are way too many reflects and invulns in the game as is, making retal a proper reflect would be terrible, no matter how visible it is. Especially considering the huge amount of retal in the game. Guardians would be literally unkillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Things could always be adjusted. They have been before. Don't worry Fluff, nothings going to change even though at the very least the tooltip needs to be edited, that wont be done either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 So messing with those 2 abilities again, Dolyak Stance and Whirling Defense, they both have the same tooltip for Retaliation and Reflecting Dmg. Whirling defense will reflect projectiles. Dolyak stance won't reflect anything. Again, same description-- take a look at them yourself. They behave differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunacy Solacio.6514 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > My understanding is that in the early days retaliation used to do as you say, it used to reflect all incoming damage back to the Attacker. However it was super broken like that, especially in WvW where you used to be able to blast light fields for very good retalliation uptime on everyone. So then they made it less broken by making it is what it is now. > > IMO it probably needs a balance pass, I feel like it could be a lot stronger. Especially that it was rebalanced around the power level of core specs. No, i know it hasn't behaved that way since the preorder betas unless it did in an alpha version or a closed beta (they reworked a lot of things a lot of times. Originally healing was meant to be with a potion as an example), and looking at history of the boon I don't see that. It's just a bad tooltip statement that doesn't really have a better explanation of the boon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleazar.9478 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Lol enderz no man. Retal is already dumb, remember it has been nerfed too (have someone attack you when you have retal on you in the guild hall shit is OP as it is) and what your suggesting hell no, you trying to Nerf yourself? As ranger might as well be deleted from the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrury.4627 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > So messing with those 2 abilities again, Dolyak Stance and Whirling Defense, they both have the same tooltip for Retaliation and Reflecting Dmg. > > Whirling defense will reflect projectiles. > Dolyak stance won't reflect anything. > > Again, same description-- take a look at them yourself. > They behave differently. Um, that they both apply Retaliation to you, the caster, is the only thing they have in common. Everything else is specific to the skill, not to Retal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 > @"Chrury.4627" said: > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > So messing with those 2 abilities again, Dolyak Stance and Whirling Defense, they both have the same tooltip for Retaliation and Reflecting Dmg. > > > > Whirling defense will reflect projectiles. > > Dolyak stance won't reflect anything. > > > > Again, same description-- take a look at them yourself. > > They behave differently. > > Um, that they both apply Retaliation to you, the caster, is the only thing they have in common. Everything else is specific to the skill, not to Retal. When I read the tooltip "Reflect Incoming Damage" on two different abilities, I expect a reflect. There is no reflect. What is so hard to understand about that? One partially reflects projectiles, one doesn't. Don't bother to respond. I don't care anymore. There are so many bugs with this class that haven't even been touched. I briefly played around with the other pets we have and tinkering with their abilities and wow.....it's terrible. Try one of those 1200 range Bird Leaps---if you are moving while using it, well it takes that movement away from the leap. Regardless, it's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralDusk.1670 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Whirling defense specifically states it blocks projectiles, so returning damage is a separate action than preventing damage. Dolyak- reflect. Whirling defense- reflect and block. But yeah, the word 'reflect' is a little misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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