You can now buy the Gift of Insights with real money.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Conski Deshan.2057" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > You misunderstand. You STILL need to do the content, because you STILL need to complete all four zones. During the completion of all four zones you WILL earn enough currency to get the gift you need. If I choose to spend that currency on tonics and minis, I still did the work. It just allows me to get the tonics and minis, and STILL get the legendary. It's a non-issue.

> > >

> > > I think it would be more reasonable to say it's not the issue some posters purport it to be. It still might crank some people's jammies, since ANet went to such trouble to impose all sorts of map currencies for all sorts of items and unlocks and now you can spend (a huge amount of) money to get a (modest amount of) that currency. But you can't spend tons of RL cash and get a 2nd gen legendary; you still have to complete maps and collect crystalline ore.

> > >

> > > In other words, it might be an issue; it's just not all that big an issue.

> >

> > Yep. That's pretty much the very definition of a storm in a tea cup, the words I originally used. This is just one component of something far more complex. It's probably the easiest thing to get out of the whole recipe.

>

> I'd say it's another straw on the camels back if we're using analogies.

>

> I've been one of the people complaining/weary about the gem store and monitisation methods in general from the start (although this is my first post in nearly 2 years and at least since the new forums, cos I appear to have had absolutely no impact). Advocating clear limits to its invasiveness and a solid separation of game-play rewards to real word money.

> That was 5 years ago back when the gemstore had some armor pieces, mini's and town clothes. (and at that stage I wasn't happy about the armor pieces being in the store!)

>

> It's yet another chip away at the value of in game play (I.E what can I do through game play that a person with unlimited cash cannot match, bypass, surpass or otherwise accomplish). I recognize that it's "just" an hours game-play for some of the currencies but at this stage the principal is all that we have left to fight for.

>

> I mean this is the "darkest timeline":

> We had:

> Unlimited gathering tools with extra item drops. (an advantage(not convenience) over an in-game player)

> Season 1 rewards via gemstore (achievement rewards for money)

> Guaranteed Wardrobe unlock (...This one is the worst for me personally, in theory you can unlock 2303 items from it completely bypassing all game-play and requirements on karma skins, order skins, event skins, guild skins,crafting skins, achievement skins and perhaps most bafflingly the birthday anniversary too.)

>

> We can now add all dungeon skins, other map currency skins (plated, auric etc) to this list.

>

> Throw on top of this:

> 40+ black lion weapon sets

> RNG black lion chest exclusive skins.

> Immortal skins which are gem pack exclusive.

> The only means to acquire mount skins, pretty much exclusively the same for glider skins.

> Waypoint unlock.

> Instant level 80 item.

> The SAB selling incident.

> Allowance of run selling.

>

> It's another step in "convenience" items that are "totally not" paying to win (an argument I'm not going to get into again) and situations that benefit cash shop jockies at the expense of in game players (in my opinion) .

>

> And as a little aside to the players saying "oh they'll only get x per 100 euro etc":

> 1. It's the principal of it doesn't matter if it's only x items or only y people.

> 2. I've seen people straight up drop 10,000£ on an in-game currency...so yeah they'll get notable quantities.

> 3. That shouldn't give them access to everything money should not be a substitute for anything but basic gold(even then i'm not happy about it). And every aspect that can be carried out through money is one less that can be considered to be for in game players.

>

> (I realize half of this is off-topic but I really just needed to let off steam, these issues have been getting worse and worse across MMO's and I see more people giving up the fight against it, so someone needs to continue to say it...and its really looking like a dismal future.)

 

But at launch you were able to buy gems to buy a legendary or precursor anyway. This isn't a step in the wrong direction. You can still buy core precursors and legendaries with gems. This is a tiny thing, and it's not a step in the wrong direction because buying legendaries is already in the game and always has been.

 

What this really is is a slippery slope argument. The argument is I can see it moving in this direction and it's only going to snowball. People said the same thing about the gear treadmill starting when ascended gear was put into the game and that never happened.

 

If it stays like this, it's less than nothing. If it' moves, that's another story, but again, since you could already buy 16 legendaries at launch, we're not moving in a direction that the game wasn't already in.

 

There were always ways to spend cash to make things faster, and this isn't even like that. So no, I don't agree with your interpretation.

 

You personally don't like it, as you have a right to. But it's just your opinion based on your feelings. I'm seeing no logic to back it up.

 

Perhaps if we couldn't buy legendaries already this would be a big deal..but we can. We can also spend money to greatly speed up the legendary process by buying ascended mats like deldrimor steel ingots rather than crafting them one per day. You've always been able to spend cash to make things faster. Even in Guild Wars 1 that was true to some degree with skill packs.

[Conski Deshan.2057]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

>

> But at launch you were able to buy gems to buy a legendary or precursor anyway. This isn't a step in the wrong direction. You can still buy core precursors and legendaries with gems. This is a tiny thing, and it's not a step in the wrong direction because buying legendaries is already in the game and always has been.

>

> What this really is is a slippery slope argument. The argument is I can see it moving in this direction and it's only going to snowball. People said the same thing about the gear treadmill starting when ascended gear was put into the game and that never happened.

>

> If it stays like this, it's less than nothing. If it' moves, that's another story, but again, since you could already buy 16 legendaries at launch, we're not moving in a direction that the game wasn't already in.

>

> There were always ways to spend cash to make things faster, and this isn't even like that. So no, I don't agree with your interpretation.

>

> You personally don't like it, as you have a right to. But it's just your opinion based on your feelings. I'm seeing no logic to back it up.

>

> Perhaps if we couldn't buy legendaries already this would be a big deal..but we can. We can also spend money to greatly speed up the legendary process by buying ascended mats like deldrimor steel ingots rather than crafting them one per day. You've always been able to spend cash to make things faster. Even in Guild Wars 1 that was true to some degree with skill packs.

 

If I were going to use the slippery slope argument, I'd say we're already down the far end of the slope.

There were massive issues with legendaries being buy-able it was the most complained about thing and they said they'd rectify it (they didn't and don't seem to understand how to make a reward that doesn't use gold/economy as the cost factor). You're focusing too much on the legendaries alone the spread isn't on them exclusively.

(Although if we want to get specific, the only in-game requirement to make the Ars Gotia precursor was 1900 volatile magic that was a requirement that forced the player to play the game a bit no matter how little, it is now entirely possible to sit in lions arch on a brand new account and complete it without leaving.)

 

Using logic then:

My litmus test is this: Myself with 3000 hours of game-play at my usual efficiency vs a player with unlimited money with the lowest efficiency(the point here is that they're meant to be too incompetent to successfully complete content and if they do it takes them ten times as long but for the sake of comparison we'll say they have 100 hours of game-play).

To put it lightly I should be curb stomping this player in a manner they can never catch up to me. Sure they have a fully upgraded account and all, but I in theory have done every high end thing in the game so would have in terms of quantity and quality far more items/skins/unlocks basically every aspect of the game except gems/gold.

 

At game start: Gems to gold puts me at a potentially insurmountable disadvantage due to GW2's excessive economy design we've almost failed instantly, but we have dungeon skins, karma skins, event items, order items, some account bound mystic forge items that require exp items and while very rare a heart item or two. There are 18 skins that are primarily gem store based that I have to acquire.

 

(In practical terms I unlocked every account bound skin this gave my account value, and was something our "other player" would struggle to accomplish)

 

At game current: All of those above skins? the 296 Dungeon skins, ~285 karma skins, 111 order skins, ~40 event and heart skins, are now gem store obtainable in addition there are 1000+ skins that are primarily gem store/ BLC based that I have to acquire.

 

The gem store slope here isn't that they added new gem store skins, its that they took skins that were exclusively for in-game players and have piecemeal added them for gemstore players. Now you might argue that there's new in game only skins, there are fractal skins, some of the raid skins and pvp/wvw skins. but there's no guarantee of protection or trust that they won't be added at a later point.

 

This new voucher item adds plated, bladed and Auric weapons to the list of gem store acquirable (Chak were already lost with the wardrobe unlock item), That is the new loss for in game players and part of the issue with the new item.

 

My logic is that the separation, The in game players get specific skins through achievements and game-play that can't be bought, this makes them feel happy and satisfied. The gem store players have some gem store skins so they're happy and satisfied, the in game players recognize gem store skins and can disregard them as worthless.

is being eroded with every update, as they take from the in game players.

 

Lastly, even if it was the direction the game was already headed its no reason not to fight it, what kind of thought process is that? You have to push back at some point, companies take until there's no more to give.

 

 

[Dual.8953]

In the context that you could already cash to gold your way to a legendary since the game launched, I hardly see this as breaking new ground. It’s not like gathering 500 map currency in the HoT maps is hard or especially time consuming.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Conski Deshan.2057" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> >

> > But at launch you were able to buy gems to buy a legendary or precursor anyway. This isn't a step in the wrong direction. You can still buy core precursors and legendaries with gems. This is a tiny thing, and it's not a step in the wrong direction because buying legendaries is already in the game and always has been.

> >

> > What this really is is a slippery slope argument. The argument is I can see it moving in this direction and it's only going to snowball. People said the same thing about the gear treadmill starting when ascended gear was put into the game and that never happened.

> >

> > If it stays like this, it's less than nothing. If it' moves, that's another story, but again, since you could already buy 16 legendaries at launch, we're not moving in a direction that the game wasn't already in.

> >

> > There were always ways to spend cash to make things faster, and this isn't even like that. So no, I don't agree with your interpretation.

> >

> > You personally don't like it, as you have a right to. But it's just your opinion based on your feelings. I'm seeing no logic to back it up.

> >

> > Perhaps if we couldn't buy legendaries already this would be a big deal..but we can. We can also spend money to greatly speed up the legendary process by buying ascended mats like deldrimor steel ingots rather than crafting them one per day. You've always been able to spend cash to make things faster. Even in Guild Wars 1 that was true to some degree with skill packs.

>

> If I were going to use the slippery slope argument, I'd say we're already down the far end of the slope.

> There were massive issues with legendaries being buy-able it was the most complained about thing and they said they'd rectify it (they didn't and don't seem to understand how to make a reward that doesn't use gold/economy as the cost factor). You're focusing too much on the legendaries alone the spread isn't on them exclusively.

> (Although if we want to get specific, the only in-game requirement to make the Ars Gotia precursor was 1900 volatile magic that was a requirement that forced the player to play the game a bit no matter how little, it is now entirely possible to sit in lions arch on a brand new account and complete it without leaving.)

>

> Using logic then:

> My litmus test is this: Myself with 3000 hours of game-play at my usual efficiency vs a player with unlimited money with the lowest efficiency(the point here is that they're meant to be too incompetent to successfully complete content and if they do it takes them ten times as long but for the sake of comparison we'll say they have 100 hours of game-play).

> To put it lightly I should be curb stomping this player in a manner they can never catch up to me. Sure they have a fully upgraded account and all, but I in theory have done every high end thing in the game so would have in terms of quantity and quality far more items/skins/unlocks basically every aspect of the game except gems/gold.

>

> At game start: Gems to gold puts me at a potentially insurmountable disadvantage due to GW2's excessive economy design we've almost failed instantly, but we have dungeon skins, karma skins, event items, order items, some account bound mystic forge items that require exp items and while very rare a heart item or two. There are 18 skins that are primarily gem store based that I have to acquire.

>

> (In practical terms I unlocked every account bound skin this gave my account value, and was something our "other player" would struggle to accomplish)

>

> At game current: All of those above skins? the 296 Dungeon skins, ~285 karma skins, 111 order skins, ~40 event and heart skins, are now gem store obtainable in addition there are 1000+ skins that are primarily gem store/ BLC based that I have to acquire.

>

> The gem store slope here isn't that they added new gem store skins, its that they took skins that were exclusively for in-game players and have piecemeal added them for gemstore players. Now you might argue that there's new in game only skins, there are fractal skins, some of the raid skins and pvp/wvw skins. but there's no guarantee of protection or trust that they won't be added at a later point.

>

> This new voucher item adds plated, bladed and Auric weapons to the list of gem store acquirable (Chak were already lost with the wardrobe unlock item), That is the new loss for in game players and part of the issue with the new item.

>

> My logic is that the separation, The in game players get specific skins through achievements and game-play that can't be bought, this makes them feel happy and satisfied. The gem store players have some gem store skins so they're happy and satisfied, the in game players recognize gem store skins and can disregard them as worthless.

> is being eroded with every update, as they take from the in game players.

>

> Lastly, even if it was the direction the game was already headed its no reason not to fight it, what kind of thought process is that? You have to push back at some point, companies take until there's no more to give.

>

>

 

The logical thought process here is you're playing a game for five years that's been this way for five years. If you don't like the game, okay you don't like the game, but expecting it to change when this has always been the game feels like flawed reasoning to me.

 

I don't play WoW because I feel it's focused on dungeons and raids. I don't play the game and post on forums to try to change it, because that's it's focus. I find a game that fits me. A game like this.

 

Trying to change a game from it's core logic is a waste of time to me. I felt raids were against the game's grain, but I know they're here to stay so I don't waste my time trying to do anything about that anymore. Why should I?

 

Actually there's very little in your post I actually agree with. I don't care if you're the best player in the world, and I'm the worst player and I can have everything you have, because that's never motivated me. I only care what I do in the game. What other players do, as long as they're not ruining my fun, is fine. I have many legendaries, which I've crafted. I don't buy gems and sell them. I play the game. By the same token if someone else wants to pay cash for a legendary it's no skin off my nose. Therefore I don't see a problem here.

 

 

[Vague Memory.2817]

RNG for not even the most hard to get components for a legendary and that would literal cost a fortune using this method is not really something get to worried about. Saying that I would definitely buy map completion. Since to me this is the biggest gate to a legendary, and doing map completion more than once is to tedious to do. Honestly I don't see a problem if people would rather spend money for things like this. It's not like a legendary even gives you an advantage over ascended gear. I mean you can buy a legendary weapon already made from the BLT, so what's the big deal.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> It seems to be very rare. I only got one out of around 50 keys. Spending money on keys for such a low amount of map currency would be silly unless you are a multi millionaire with more money than sense.

> Plus it is missing crystalline ores.

 

Doesn't matter how rare it is, as other said, it's about the principle. For now.

 

Anet's often testing the waters with these small things and before you know it we have another 40 mount RNG pack-like situation on our hands.

 

 

[Neural.1824]

They could make quite a bit of real cash if they'd do this with Gift of Battle. Not only do a lot of PvE players not want to do WvW, why would they want to try with all the negativity surrounding it? Not to mention the WvW players would benefit because a large chunk of the "AFK" players they have to deal with would vanish, allowing more people who are interested in actually playing to get into the zones, etc.