Make Backstab Unblockable

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"CreedOfGod.9764" said:

>

> There is no such thing as CnD spam because right now it's pointless, but it is totally possible. You could get 3 off in a row with signet of infiltration regen and steal. And if you take revealed training you'll have 200 power after the first hit on a 1300 base damage unblockable skill.

 

You could get 3 off, on a Training Dummy which stands still waiting for your hits.

 

CnD doesn’t have 1300 base damage, I don’t know if there is a “base damage” too, to be honest. According to Wiki, it says _458 base, with 1.25 coefficient._

So I don’t think it will hit more than 7-8K even if you are Berserker. Other than that, agree with you.

 

Edit: Fixed a double quote.

[Asahi.1487]

buff CnD: + The next attack you make is unblockable.

still why backstab when autos are faster and stronger

[CreedOfGod.9764]

> @"Asahi.1487" said:

> buff CnD: + The next attack you make is unblockable.

me gusta

> still why backstab when autos are faster and stronger

Personally it's why I play thief lol so satisfying to land thicc 5 digit backstabs

 

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

 

> CnD doesn’t have 1300 base damage, I don’t know if there is a “base damage” too, to be honest. According to Wiki, it says _458 base, with 1.25 coefficient._

> So I don’t think it will hit more than 7-8K even if you are Berserker. Other than that, agree with you.

 

Yeah I was taking into account a mix of marauder/zerker set as a core thief with deadly arts + crit strikes. Was also making an extreme example of potential abuse. Flanking strike is a two part ability so it's harder to spam the unblockable damage

 

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

Unblockable CnD would be spammable high damage if on a squishy target, particularly due to the aforementioned bonus of RT and the fact it applies substantial vuln when hitting. Given Haste and Assassin's Signet one could pretty easily deal 25-30k unblockable damage in the window of only a few seconds. On more than one occasion I have killed berserker-built thieves from just Mug and CnD damage alone.

 

Not that doing such would be competitively strong so much as it would just encourage cheese. It ends up basically no different than DB 3spam but with arguably less room to counterplay it.

 

Honestly, I'd still rather just see the initiative cost cut down to 5 or possibly 4, but primarily DB reworked and other professions toned down. The initiative mechanic as a whole does not behave well with power creep.

 

 

[Cobrakon.3108]

> @"Asahi.1487" said:

> buff CnD: + The next attack you make is unblockable.

> still why backstab when autos are faster and stronger

 

This sounds really good actually

[DeceiverX.8361]

I still think the number of blocks just need to be toned down.

 

If I fight core D/D into core guardian or warrior and they use F1 Aegis or swap shield -> block to clutch-deny the backstab, they deserve to be rewarded for reacting fast and getting the out-play.

 

Just adding more unblockable de-values blocks which promotes needing more invulns etc. Which then demands more burst potential. With this mentality when does it end?

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> I still think the number of blocks just need to be toned down.

>

> If I fight core D/D into core guardian or warrior and they use F1 Aegis or swap shield -> block to clutch-deny the backstab, they deserve to be rewarded for reacting fast and getting the out-play.

>

> Just adding more unblockable de-values blocks which promotes needing more invulns etc. Which then demands more burst potential. With this mentality when does it end?

 

I’d think it’s more of the passives involved that need toning down.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > I still think the number of blocks just need to be toned down.

> >

> > If I fight core D/D into core guardian or warrior and they use F1 Aegis or swap shield -> block to clutch-deny the backstab, they deserve to be rewarded for reacting fast and getting the out-play.

> >

> > Just adding more unblockable de-values blocks which promotes needing more invulns etc. Which then demands more burst potential. With this mentality when does it end?

>

> I’d think it’s more of the passives involved that need toning down.

 

The cycle ultimately needs to be broken somewhere. While I've advocated against passives since launch, we're starting to hit power levels that are so absurd that playing successfully often hinges on these abilities just because there is no realistic counterplay to some dominant builds which are only punished by these same passives.

 

We can't just continue a cycle of powercreep is the point.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

> > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > I still think the number of blocks just need to be toned down.

> > >

> > > If I fight core D/D into core guardian or warrior and they use F1 Aegis or swap shield -> block to clutch-deny the backstab, they deserve to be rewarded for reacting fast and getting the out-play.

> > >

> > > Just adding more unblockable de-values blocks which promotes needing more invulns etc. Which then demands more burst potential. With this mentality when does it end?

> >

> > I’d think it’s more of the passives involved that need toning down.

>

> The cycle ultimately needs to be broken somewhere. While I've advocated against passives since launch, we're starting to hit power levels that are so absurd that playing successfully often hinges on these abilities just because there is no realistic counterplay to some dominant builds which are only punished by these same passives.

>

> We can't just continue a cycle of powercreep is the point.

That’s a good point.

[TiNG.3964]

I really don't have a problem with backstab. well, except the 1 sec CD.

Remove 1 sec CD

make C&D unblockable, but also give a damage reduction. I only care about getting stealth from it so id be happy with this.

Id also like the fall damage moving back to where it was 2 balances patches ago, but that's a story for another time.

 

I'm keen to see the patch notes this week and see if anything has changed that will bring me back,but i should just prepare myself for further disappointment i think.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Just remove the 1sec CD. It's such a stupid change.

[Satullya.5276]

Either remove aftercast from backstab or change damage coefficient from 1.2 front to 1.0 and 2.4 back to 3.0. Latter proposition promote good positioning so i'm more in favor of that. Adding unblockable stealth attacks to Rending Shade in Shadow Arts might be a thing considering it make them steal boons and a lot of skills that steal/corrupt boons are unblockable.