Warrior swords

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"Gandrogh.1530" said:

> You forgot to mention hammer/mace/shield which can apply 4stacks of confusion on interrupt. lel

>

 

Yep, and don’t forget to take bodyblow for weakness and bleed for every hard cc you’ve applied. Taking Rampage with bodyblow as a condition build is fun as hell.

 

 

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Gandrogh.1530" said:

> You forgot to mention hammer/mace/shield which can apply 4stacks of confusion on interrupt. lel

>

 

That does not a Condi weapon make.

 

In fact, Merciless Hammer needs a serious rework because it also tries to turn the Hammer into a hybrid weapon which **just. doesn't. work**.

 

Call your builds "fun as hell" all you want, it does not mean that they are good and **definitely should not be the basis of class balance**!

 

Rework Warrior to have clear Power and Condi options. Hyrbrid goes against the current stat setup/design of the game - it is as simple as that.

[Flauvious.6195]

I've been playing around with a hybrid berserker build using grieving amulet, s/s and s/shield. It's not "viable" but it's honestly not as terrible as you'd think. The biggest issue I'm having is straight up how buggy sword 4 is. If sword 4 was fixed to not suck at landing and the broken path of fire specs that crowd out everything else were nerfed I think this could actually be a thing.

 

Still think sword 4 could use a complete rework. It's a really dumb skill imo. I would change it's a quick backhand melee slash attack that cripples and bleeds. Changing torment to bleed tightens up the number of conditions you deal, which allows for grieving amulet since you can max condi duration through runes/sigils when you only use 1 or 2 condis. Warrior has traits that give both burning and bleeding +33% duration so why not just stick to these 2? You can then recast it for a second powerful overhand chop with a high power ratio that deals extra damage to enemies with a certain threshold of bleed stacks. I think making skills that interact with conditions is the way you could make hybrid build work.

 

Also I would slightly increase the cast speed of sword 3 and the power ratio on either autos, sword 2 or sword 5. And sword burst skill no longer roots you. Just feels bad.

 

The other issue with this build and hybrids in general is the lack of crit chance. It would be dope if sword two have fury or something, or maybe a trait that increases crit chance against bleeding or burning foes.

 

[Kiroshima.8497]

Sword 4 is super weird, it's like they wanted a projectile attack on a ton of VANILLA warrior weapons, whether it was melee or not. GS4, Axe 3, Mace 5, Sword 4. Only hammer lacks a projectile (and of course off hand sets). It's very weird. Sword 4 doesn't even apply enough Torment to matter either, and using Rip ends the pulsing early, so... yeah it's awkward. At least Rip hits hard on a power build, but not enough to make Sw/Sw work for pure power (and no might generation).

 

The sword trait used to be +20% crit vs bleeding targets, which wasn't too bad, but it's now +20% condi duration. I think the sword trait would be better off with a crit bonus (or a condition damage to ferocity conversion), but Arms already suffers from a billion crit traits. Assuming Arms gets the rework it truly deserves, sword needs an identity from Anet, whether Power/Hybrid/Condi. The obvious choice is Condi since Warrior lacks a melee condi set (no, longbow isn't a melee condi weapon although it does work well in melee range).

 

Or they could make it like necro's MH dagger and it becomes a utility only weapon and is forever doomed.

[Juba.8406]

Give Sword Utility.

 

Make #2 an ammo type skill with 2 charges.

 

Give #3 Something, Shorter cooldown or damage buff.

 

Fix Flurry , Make it instant cast or redesign the skill entirely to make it work properly with Burst traits.

[Oglaf.1074]

Oh and if they ever get around to reworking the Sword they need to fix the bloody auto-attack animation.

 

At least for Norns, it looks like you're punching enemies with the hilt and crossguard rather than slashing at them.

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

> @"Flauvious.6195" said:

> What are warriors swords even trying to be? main hand sword has condi on auto and then two meh power damage skills. It's used soley for its auto attack and burst skill in pve because warrior has no better main hand condi weapon. In pvp it's useless. And then there's oh sword, which might be the single worst weapon in the game. Both skills are clunky as hell and miss half the time, and even if they do land they do basically no damage. It seems like oh sword has been the same forever, why does this weapon even exist if it is just a noob trap for people who want to duel wield swords. What kind of changes would make this less bad?

 

MH sword is an offense leaning hybrid.OH sword is a defensive leaning hybrid. This is the shortest answer I can give you.

[Irokou.3215]

I think hybrid weapon skills are essentially outdated at this point. The most effective builds focus on weaponry that embodies either a power or condi focus. An awkward blend between the two just leads to inefficiency due to how reliant both of these are on their corresponding stats. Quite frankly a lot of skills feel like a relic of the past and it is a shame that they have been glossed over for so very long.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"Irokou.3215" said:

> I think hybrid weapon skills are essentially outdated at this point. The most effective builds focus on weaponry that embodies either a power or condi focus. An awkward blend between the two just leads to inefficiency due to how reliant both of these are on their corresponding stats. Quite frankly a lot of skills feel like a relic of the past and it is a shame that they have been glossed over for so very long.

 

Sword bring mobility to both condition build and power build.

 

I have a burn zerker run sword torch for wvw, very effective and won quite a bit 1v2.

I have a power spellbreaker run sword dagger for wvw, very effective and won quite a bit 1v2 or even couple times 1v3 as well.

 

It is hybrid doesn't mean it must be run with hybrid stat, it is hybrid because pure condition build and pure power build can both benefit by the mobility it brings.

 

[HyperLooser.2698]

yeah i love sword+axe/dagger hybrid build. The main problem is indeed the F1 it does like no damage even with its bleeds, its slow as hell even with quickness and it roots you.

[whoknocks.4935]

Pure talking of pvp and wvw.

The auto is so low damage, sword2 is a good mobility skill, but in combat if you leap at someone it feels so clunky and I miss the hit half of the times, sword3 is slow and clunky as well and 90% of the times it doesn't hit because of those reasons. Sword will be buffed in damage, but I don't think it will have that game changing impact since the clunkyness will remain. F1 skill is just an handicap to use because it will freeze you in that spot you cast it and for what? 2 Seconds of immobilize?

 

If you compare the sword for warrior with the sword for guardian the difference is like day and night, on guardian the auto is a so good cleave ability, sword2 mobility teleport symbol plus fury plus blind skill, sword3 will freeze you in the ground but it has some range, it absorb projectiles, and it has insanely high damage.

 

Maybe making warrior sword3 fast as dagger3 would be too much op? Not sure. And sword2 animation and land hit more accurate would be already good changes to make sword viable as a power weapon in pvp and wvw. F1 maybe launchs projectiles at 450 range similar to guardian sword3.

[petespri.6548]

> @"sneakytails.5629" said:

> Savage Leap and Final Thrust are fine, the auto,F1, and off hand skills really need some work.

>

> I also use the sword as both Condi and a Power weapon. Not really sure how making it Condi or Power only would help the Warrior out more. Leaving it as a Hybrid and tweaking the skills to better suit each style would be a smarter choice.

>

>

 

I cant agree with this more. I like a sword for POWER damage... i'd like to see it stay a hybrid and just tweak some numbers, or scaling.

 

Maybe add some conditionals to have the hybrid nature scale (if you have higher power than condi damage, your sword autos chain attacks do 1.5x, 2x, and 3.5x scaling power damage; if you have more condi than power, your sword autos apply 1stack, 2stacks, and 3stacks of bleeding in the chain)

[InsaneQR.7412]

Well they could just swap impale with finale thrust.

You can throw the weapon and impale your target, jumo at it with savage leap and rip the sword out of your target.

And final thrust would give a nice OH skill for Axe or Dagger MH.

Just swapping stuff could solve some things, only riposte should get the bleeding removed and its dmg improved.

 

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> Well they could just swap impale with finale thrust.

> You can throw the weapon and impale your target, jumo at it with savage leap and rip the sword out of your target.

> And final thrust would give a nice OH skill for Axe or Dagger MH.

> Just swapping stuff could solve some things, only riposte should get the bleeding removed and its dmg improved.

>

 

OH axe 5, OH dagger 4 can hit hard already, but why nobody take them over shield? It is because shield provide superior sustain and it is exactly why meta is either axe shield or dagger shield. Swapping like your suggestion won't change the shield meta, but it is a serious nerf to MH sword. No offence, it is not a solution.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > Well they could just swap impale with finale thrust.

> > You can throw the weapon and impale your target, jumo at it with savage leap and rip the sword out of your target.

> > And final thrust would give a nice OH skill for Axe or Dagger MH.

> > Just swapping stuff could solve some things, only riposte should get the bleeding removed and its dmg improved.

> >

>

> OH axe 5, OH dagger 4 can hit hard already, but why nobody take them over shield? It is because shield provide superior sustain and it is exactly why meta is either axe shield or dagger shield. Swapping like your suggestion won't change the shield meta, but it is a serious nerf to MH sword. No offence, it is not a solution.

 

Would give sword a better position in PvE i assume and OH sword better in PvP although shield is always superior i think.

The idea i gave is PvE focussed. In PvP sword is not used because CC and burst dmg is just better in these modes and sword is sustained dmg weapon, also a reason why sword 3 makes not really sense on the MH.

Axe and dagger are fantastic for off-sets, sword could be too in a build with a/sh and d/sw.

In the end its all theory but i would be gladly off with a pure condi sword.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > Well they could just swap impale with finale thrust.

> > > You can throw the weapon and impale your target, jumo at it with savage leap and rip the sword out of your target.

> > > And final thrust would give a nice OH skill for Axe or Dagger MH.

> > > Just swapping stuff could solve some things, only riposte should get the bleeding removed and its dmg improved.

> > >

> >

> > OH axe 5, OH dagger 4 can hit hard already, but why nobody take them over shield? It is because shield provide superior sustain and it is exactly why meta is either axe shield or dagger shield. Swapping like your suggestion won't change the shield meta, but it is a serious nerf to MH sword. No offence, it is not a solution.

>

> Would give sword a better position in PvE i assume and OH sword better in PvP although shield is always superior i think.

> The idea i gave is PvE focussed. In PvP sword is not used because CC and burst dmg is just better in these modes and sword is sustained dmg weapon, also a reason why sword 3 makes not really sense on the MH.

> Axe and dagger are fantastic for off-sets, sword could be too in a build with a/sh and d/sw.

> In the end its all theory but i would be gladly off with a pure condi sword.

 

Berserker condition build use MH sword and hit a relatively high benchmark in pve. I don't think we need to buff MH sword even more on condition damage side.

 

 

I use sword MH as pure power build in wvw, and it is super easy to find greatsword / sword shield player on youtube. There are some examples listed as below:

 

https://youtu.be/Y9iR7pCRHV8

 

It is not an easy weapon to use, but it is good in the right hand.

 

We have to stop asking to nerf competitive build diversity for the cause of pve. There will never be build diversity in RAID because there will be only 1 optimal build ever and every build works in open world.

 

But pvp/wvw is a different story, how a player thinks, making decisions, creative use of environment are critical to the outcome of the battle, player skill is all that matter most of the time, therefore some hybrid damage weapon are never meta in pve but you can find niche build on youtube with great successful with these weapons in pvp/wvw scenario. Well at least Anet is going to solidify the hybrid nature of MH sword on the coming patch, go figure.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@"Crossaber.8934"

 

No problems with hybrid weapons actually, i personally even play grieving berserker and had my successes with it.

Personally i dont like final thrust on the weapon and would like to see impale because it has better synergy with savage leap and even with the firefield on torch (although this is negligable).

Otherwise i like sword and i do use final thrust because it can easily kill veteran mobs as soon as they hit 30%.

Actually pretty glad that they improve its hybrid functionality, something i would like to see on ranger weapons too (i mean all if them are kinda hybrid and they suffer from this till launch and need improvements including PvE) and i think its a playstyle they should offer more possibilities like adding traits like abyssal chill or deadly chill which would make power weapons more condi heavy. And giving decent power scaling to existing hybrid weapons.

 

Could you state what gets improved, i am curious what gets improved on sword.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> @"Crossaber.8934"

>

> No problems with hybrid weapons actually, i personally even play grieving berserker and had my successes with it.

> Personally i dont like final thrust on the weapon and would like to see impale because it has better synergy with savage leap and even with the firefield on torch (although this is negligable).

> Otherwise i like sword and i do use final thrust because it can easily kill veteran mobs as soon as they hit 30%.

> Actually pretty glad that they improve its hybrid functionality, something i would like to see on ranger weapons too (i mean all if them are kinda hybrid and they suffer from this till launch and need improvements including PvE) and i think its a playstyle they should offer more possibilities like adding traits like abyssal chill or deadly chill which would make power weapons more condi heavy. And giving decent power scaling to existing hybrid weapons.

>

> Could you state what gets improved, i am curious what gets improved on sword.

 

Here you go, these are the buff that are coming patch.

 

Sword Autoattack chain: Increased overall damage by 22% in PvP and WvW

Flurry: Increased damage by 71% in PvP and WvW

Savage Leap: Increased damage by 33% in PvP and WvW

Flaming Flurry: Increased damage by 92% in PvP and WvW

 

All buff are for power damage, I personally want to see cast time reduction on final thrust, maybe a slight increase in range. But i will take what they give us now and see for myself.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Crossaber.8934"

> >

> > No problems with hybrid weapons actually, i personally even play grieving berserker and had my successes with it.

> > Personally i dont like final thrust on the weapon and would like to see impale because it has better synergy with savage leap and even with the firefield on torch (although this is negligable).

> > Otherwise i like sword and i do use final thrust because it can easily kill veteran mobs as soon as they hit 30%.

> > Actually pretty glad that they improve its hybrid functionality, something i would like to see on ranger weapons too (i mean all if them are kinda hybrid and they suffer from this till launch and need improvements including PvE) and i think its a playstyle they should offer more possibilities like adding traits like abyssal chill or deadly chill which would make power weapons more condi heavy. And giving decent power scaling to existing hybrid weapons.

> >

> > Could you state what gets improved, i am curious what gets improved on sword.

>

> Here you go, these are the buff that are coming patch.

>

> Sword Autoattack chain: Increased overall damage by 22% in PvP and WvW

> Flurry: Increased damage by 71% in PvP and WvW

> Savage Leap: Increased damage by 33% in PvP and WvW

> Flaming Flurry: Increased damage by 92% in PvP and WvW

>

> All buff are for power damage, I personally want to see cast time reduction on final thrust, maybe a slight increase in range. But i will take what they give us now and see for myself.

 

Thx.

They should make many of these buffs baseline in all gamemodes. Its puzzling why they only buff stuff in PvP/WvW, even if they online would bring positive efects and diversity in PvE.

 

[Oglaf.1074]

Actually the MH Sword is really bad for condi Berserker: most of your damage comes from Torch and Longbow.

 

As I said previously, MH Sword isn’t meta for this build because it is good but rather because it is there is no other option.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Actually the MH Sword is really bad for condi Berserker: most of your damage comes from Torch and Longbow.

>

> As I said previously, MH Sword isn’t meta for this build because it is good but rather because it is there is no other option.

 

Flaming flurry is actually a lot better than many people think. I actually killed quite many players with it in wvw. Is it amazing? i think it got rooms for improvement but it can get the job done.

 

It is a mobility weapon, and it is hybrid so that no matter condition build or power can make use of it.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > Actually the MH Sword is really bad for condi Berserker: most of your damage comes from Torch and Longbow.

> >

> > As I said previously, MH Sword isn’t meta for this build because it is good but rather because it is there is no other option.

>

> Flaming flurry is actually a lot better than many people think. I actually killed quite many players with it in wvw. Is it amazing? i think it got rooms for improvement but it can get the job done.

>

> It is a mobility weapon, and it is hybrid so that no matter condition build or power can make use of it.

 

Flaming Flurry is the one and only upside to it (the fact that it doesn’t self-root alone makes it so much better) but that’s about it. The fact that you ignore both 2 and 3 on Sword (as they lose you condi dps) is more than telling. Mobility in a Raid build? Pointless.

 

As I said, Sword is used in this build not because it is good but merely cuz there is nothing else. You use the F1 and the two Torch skills and spam that weapon swap key impatiently until you can Longbow again.

 

 

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > Actually the MH Sword is really bad for condi Berserker: most of your damage comes from Torch and Longbow.

> > >

> > > As I said previously, MH Sword isn’t meta for this build because it is good but rather because it is there is no other option.

> >

> > Flaming flurry is actually a lot better than many people think. I actually killed quite many players with it in wvw. Is it amazing? i think it got rooms for improvement but it can get the job done.

> >

> > It is a mobility weapon, and it is hybrid so that no matter condition build or power can make use of it.

>

> Flaming Flurry is the one and only upside to it (the fact that it doesn’t self-root alone makes it so much better) but that’s about it. The fact that you ignore both 2 and 3 on Sword (as they lose you condi dps) is more than telling. Mobility in a Raid build? Pointless.

>

> As I said, Sword is used in this build not because it is good but merely cuz there is nothing else. You use the F1 and the two Torch skills and spam that weapon swap key impatiently until you can Longbow again.

>

>

 

Like i said, it is a mobility weapon, skill 2 is not being ignored, it is a critical skill to both condition build and power build: for the mobility, even removal of immobilize with warrior’s sprint.

 

My burn zerker got some power in her gear, 3 is not being ignored, it give some nice damage when foe below 50% hp.

 

Core F1 is a deadly trap to your foe if you managed to immobilize somebody when your geoup push.

 

Flaming flurry is powerful when used at melee range, defend yourself against pew pew foe or chasing down stealthed fleeing foe.

 

AA is where it is almost useless to both build. So as many AA of many weapons.

[Oglaf.1074]

... you do realize “condi Berserker” is a Raid build, right?

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> ... you do realize “condi Berserker” is a Raid build, right?

 

You do realise RAID is not the only end game content in the game, right? Condition zerker is a viable raid build, it is not necessary the optimal build, it is viable as long as the build can reach a certain dps benchmark. But it can be a pvp/wvw build as well, i play one in wvw myself.

 

If all skill are created and balanced with pve point of view, we may as well take out any mobility, boon removal, teleport, portal from the game since these skills are useless against RAID boss.

 

Glad this is not the case in gw2.