Confusion hits like a wet noodle in PvE now?

[Carighan.6758]

> @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> No. The old confusion was fundamentally unsuited towards fun. Dots are boring. The new confusion just needs a spike damage boost in pve to make timed bursts of it worthwhile. Nothing fundamental about it needs to change, just some numbers.

 

Sure. And if they ever want to add a raidboss who hits fast, they need to then either apply a special *-75% confusion damage* debuff to the raid, nerf it first again and re-buff it after the raid wing is outdated, or change its design again?

 

Why not... fix it? Why work on symptoms instead of causes?

 

Mind you, it's very easy to keep a skill-feedback design, it just needs to be a **stable DPS output**. Meaning self-scaling:

**Confusion**

*You are confused and will hurt yourself when attacking, causing 20% of the damage to yourself. This feedback damage is limited according to the condition damage of the person applying this to you. More stacks of Confusion increase this limit but not the damage itself.

 

Self-balancing. A stabby thief is hit by a thousand needles. A slow-swinging Guardian gets fewer feedback ticks, but they're big. Between both, the feedback DPS is ~the same, assuming they keep attacking. A raid boss takes **huge** hits of damage, but even then they're not killing themselves in seconds because of the cap.

 

And yes, I know, factually it might as well be an X-damage-per-second DoT then. My point exactly. See, other MMOs tried all this fancy shmancy stuff before, and they ended up with autoscaling effects, procs-per-minute and completely removed talent systems for a reason. ANet should sometimes rely upon experiences others already had instead of going through the same painful learning experiences, just in slow motion (due to the glacial balance speed).

 

(edit)

I mean of course it can be done through pure numbers. Increase the on-skill-activation damage by... say... 900%. That ought to just about make it meaningful. Of course, the few mobs in the game who attack quickly I'd cause 200k-300k DPS to...

[OriOri.8724]

> @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> > @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > it reworked the design to something which is **fundamentally** not suited to PvE.

>

> No. The old confusion was fundamentally unsuited towards fun. Dots are boring. The new confusion just needs a spike damage boost in pve to make timed bursts of it worthwhile. Nothing fundamental about it needs to change, just some numbers.

 

You could triple the on skill use damage of confusion and it would still be worthless in PvE due to how little mobs attack. There's no spike that will ever be justified in PvE, as long as you are stuck waiting for their attacks. For core tyria mobs, any power build will take down the mob before it gets its first attack off, why should condi builds that relied on confusion be shafted like this?

[Genesis.5169]

Its gonna sound arrogant but this is your fault my fellow mesmers, When the QQ train was rampant on the forums it was only I and a select few people coming to mesmer defenses the devs based this nerf on the opinions of people who do not believe things like aegis blocking and dodging do not affect condition damage take a look here,

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27363/so-its-official-now-then/p1

 

@OriOri.8724 You are one of the biggest nay sayers about mesmers crying for nerfs and your surprised we got them?

If there's no voices on the otherside of the argument guess what we lose.

 

I took a 2month break from this game for FF14 an im positive in my absence there are maybe 1 or 2 daily forum posters who go out of the way to educate and correct the totally false misconceptions about mirages. Realize that mirage which wasn't 100-0'ing people unless the enemy spamed they keyboard and the power mesmer the one that just removed you out of the game with absurds about of CC like sw ambush got a buff.

 

Its a direct reflection of the forum irrational hatred of conditions and NONE of you came to mesmer defenses. I can deal with crappy misplaced balance changes when they come but i can't deal with them if they are just based on tears and tears alone everyday Anet is finding a new way for me not to play this game.

[atlashugged.7642]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> > > @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > > it reworked the design to something which is **fundamentally** not suited to PvE.

> >

> > No. The old confusion was fundamentally unsuited towards fun. Dots are boring. The new confusion just needs a spike damage boost in pve to make timed bursts of it worthwhile. Nothing fundamental about it needs to change, just some numbers.

>

> You could triple the on skill use damage of confusion and it would still be worthless in PvE due to how little mobs attack. There's no spike that will ever be justified in PvE, as long as you are stuck waiting for their attacks. For core tyria mobs, any power build will take down the mob before it gets its first attack off, why should condi builds that relied on confusion be shafted like this?

 

Why should core tyria mob farming be considered at all in balance? You aren't going to make that not boring with any change short of fixing the mobs themselves. And thats fine. You've got a power build that does well for it. Don't ask anet to ruin the rest of the game with boring design to appease a small minority of players who want to use damage over time effects on mobs that die to auto attacks.

 

Spikes can be made viable in raid content and no core tyria though.

[atlashugged.7642]

> @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> > No. The old confusion was fundamentally unsuited towards fun. Dots are boring. The new confusion just needs a spike damage boost in pve to make timed bursts of it worthwhile. Nothing fundamental about it needs to change, just some numbers.

>

> Sure. And if they ever want to add a raidboss who hits fast, they need to then either apply a special *-75% confusion damage* debuff to the raid, nerf it first again and re-buff it after the raid wing is outdated, or change its design again?

>

> Why not... fix it? Why work on symptoms instead of causes?

>

> Mind you, it's very easy to keep a skill-feedback design, it just needs to be a **stable DPS output**. Meaning self-scaling:

> **Confusion**

> *You are confused and will hurt yourself when attacking, causing 20% of the damage to yourself. This feedback damage is limited according to the condition damage of the person applying this to you. More stacks of Confusion increase this limit but not the damage itself.

>

> Self-balancing. A stabby thief is hit by a thousand needles. A slow-swinging Guardian gets fewer feedback ticks, but they're big. Between both, the feedback DPS is ~the same, assuming they keep attacking. A raid boss takes **huge** hits of damage, but even then they're not killing themselves in seconds because of the cap.

>

> And yes, I know, factually it might as well be an X-damage-per-second DoT then. My point exactly. See, other MMOs tried all this fancy shmancy stuff before, and they ended up with autoscaling effects, procs-per-minute and completely removed talent systems for a reason. ANet should sometimes rely upon experiences others already had instead of going through the same painful learning experiences, just in slow motion (due to the glacial balance speed).

>

> (edit)

> I mean of course it can be done through pure numbers. Increase the on-skill-activation damage by... say... 900%. That ought to just about make it meaningful. Of course, the few mobs in the game who attack quickly I'd cause 200k-300k DPS to...

 

You could also balance it by cool down of the ability that triggers the confusion damage. Both would work. As long as it is a burst the pve mesmer applies before the attack, it would be more fun than just spamming dots.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> You could also balance it by cool down of the ability that triggers the confusion damage. Both would work. As long as it is a burst the pve mesmer applies before the attack, it would be more fun than just spamming dots.

 

But that was my point: What would be different?

You would do the same gameplay actions, and cause the same overall DPS. For PvE purposes - all of these threads are about reverting the PvE change only! - nothing would be any different.

 

If the damage numbers were hidden, you would probably even be unable to tell what changed or didn't change :tongue:

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> Its gonna sound arrogant but this is your fault my fellow mesmers, When the QQ train was rampant on the forums it was only I and a select few people coming to mesmer defenses the devs based this nerf on the opinions of people who do not believe things like aegis blocking and dodging do not affect condition damage take a look here,

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27363/so-its-official-now-then/p1

>

> @OriOri.8724 You are one of the biggest nay sayers about mesmers crying for nerfs and your surprised we got them?

> If there's no voices on the otherside of the argument guess what we lose.

>

> I took a 2month break from this game for FF14 an im positive in my absence there are maybe 1 or 2 daily forum posters who go out of the way to educate and correct the totally false misconceptions about mirages. Realize that mirage which wasn't 100-0'ing people unless the enemy spamed they keyboard and the power mesmer the one that just removed you out of the game with absurds about of CC like sw ambush got a buff.

>

> Its a direct reflection of the forum irrational hatred of conditions and NONE of you came to mesmer defenses. I can deal with crappy misplaced balance changes when they come but i can't deal with them if they are just based on tears and tears alone everyday Anet is finding a new way for me not to play this game.

 

o.0 I defend mesmer literally all the goddamn time lmao The only difference is when I point out where mesmer is overtuned and needs to be toned down.