Signet of Ether

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> The healing Co-effient really needs to be imrpoved, going up by 900 Healing power increases the healing by like 50. Thats poor. Very poor. With Scepter, i think it could be really solid. where else would you have enough clone and illusion to make it worthwhile?

 

Mirage builds with lowered weapon cooldowns, self-deception, and some deception utilities. If I'm not mistaken it also procs on phantasm > clone conversion.

 

The coefficient and cooldown could use some help.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> Mirage builds with lowered weapon cooldowns, self-deception, and some deception utilities. If I'm not mistaken it also procs on phantasm > clone conversion.

>

> The coefficient and cooldown could use some help.

 

Wouldnt that be the same for any weapon combo with cool down reduction traits? Can Axe/X produce more illusions than any other spec? Would it beat for example Chronophantasma. When combined with the GS trait, it would proc 6 heals 2 from summon, 2 from resummon and 2 from clone summon, add in the Chrono trait for clone on shatter as well.

 

[KalasDelRio.8921]

Tried to run this along side Signet of Illusions to increase the amount of healing I can get from it, but you'd still be better off running Ether Feast simply for the lower cool-down. I guess it also helps that I pretty much always have 3 clones up now. Running Signet of Illusions with Heal on Shatter and Double Mind Wrack is a godsend, and with the Alacrity we get from shatters, Mind Wrack is only ever a 10 second cool-down at most.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> It's a PvE Heal skill since its main use comes from Phantasm resets. Don't bring it to pvp.

 

Weren't Anet the ones that said play how you want? Sure there will always be some skills, traits and such that will be more beneficial to one mode over another. That SHOULDN'T mean its near useless in the other modes. When it comes to PvP/WvW, this heal needs a LOT of work to even be slightly viable.

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > Mirage builds with lowered weapon cooldowns, self-deception, and some deception utilities. If I'm not mistaken it also procs on phantasm > clone conversion.

> >

> > The coefficient and cooldown could use some help.

>

> Wouldnt that be the same for any weapon combo with cool down reduction traits? Can Axe/X produce more illusions than any other spec? Would it beat for example Chronophantasma. When combined with the GS trait, it would proc 6 heals 2 from summon, 2 from resummon and 2 from clone summon, add in the Chrono trait for clone on shatter as well.

>

 

Your statement/question was, "With Scepter, i think it could be really solid. where else would you have enough clone and illusion to make it worthwhile?" I didn't say anything about axe/x. I said what your first sentence partially reiterates, the other part is that in Mirage you get Self-Deception and Deception utilities. I said nothing about what it would beat either, but yes, you layout a number of scenarios that answer your initial question. All of which, with the exception of a Chrono build, Self-Deception with Deception utilities would further amplify as long as there was a single clone out. For example, in axe/pistol you get 2 from pistol (if my presumption of phantasm > clone procs holds true), 2 from axe 2, and in the case of my hybrid build have another 5 available from utilities as long as a clone is out. This doesn't include if you've traited clone on dodge in Dueling or if you've traited clone on stealth in Illusions and immediately swap to x/torch and prestige and roll through that weapon sets clone generation or have Decoy slotted which is another 2.

 

Point is in fast-paced clone spam it adds up kinda fast, but as I said I too think the coefficient is low and cooldown high. In kiting or constant reset it's probably underwhelming. Worthwhile is somewhat situational/personal.

 

[Tinnel.4369]

I think it's fair to consider that in the situations we've presented, with a higher coefficient it could run out of control fast. Considering this it probably makes the cooldown the best target for change.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > It's a PvE Heal skill since its main use comes from Phantasm resets. Don't bring it to pvp.

>

> Weren't Anet the ones that said play how you want? Sure there will always be some skills, traits and such that will be more beneficial to one mode over another.

 

No, they literally never said that phrase in the context that you're using it. Play how you want was stated as a description of being able to play PvE or wvw or PvP, casually or hardcore or however you want and still make progress in the game.

 

It never meant "use whatever garbage build you want".

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> No, they literally never said that phrase in the context that you're using it. Play how you want was stated as a description of being able to play PvE or wvw or PvP, casually or hardcore or however you want and still make progress in the game.

>

> It never meant "use whatever garbage build you want".

 

I am pretty sure it was along the lines of play how YOU want. I guess what they should have said was, Play how you want, as long as its in lines with how WE want you to play...

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> Your statement/question was, "With Scepter, i think it could be really solid. where else would you have enough clone and illusion to make it worthwhile?" I didn't say anything about axe/x. I said what your first sentence partially reiterates, the other part is that in Mirage you get Self-Deception and Deception utilities. I said nothing about what it would beat either, but yes, you layout a number of scenarios that answer your initial question. All of which, with the exception of a Chrono build, Self-Deception with Deception utilities would further amplify as long as there was a single clone out. For example, in axe/pistol you get 2 from pistol (if my presumption of phantasm > clone procs holds true), 2 from axe 2, and in the case of my hybrid build have another 5 available from utilities as long as a clone is out. This doesn't include if you've traited clone on dodge in Dueling or if you've traited clone on stealth in Illusions and immediately swap to x/torch and prestige and roll through that weapon sets clone generation or have Decoy slotted which is another 2.

>

> Point is in fast-paced clone spam it adds up kinda fast, but as I said I too think the coefficient is low and cooldown high. In kiting or constant reset it's probably underwhelming. Worthwhile is somewhat situational/personal.

 

yeah you mentioned Axe, So if for example you took any weapon set, ignoring weapon cool downs. How would you be able to best produce clones? The issue i could see with Scepter is that after 3 clones are up. You cant create anymore. Can other skills that create clones destroy a clone to create a new one? If it wasnt for just how much i cant stand Mirage i would try it, but every time i have played it. I have hated it :/

 

fast paced clone spam? But how? I have tried many, i just cant see how you could get enough creation to make it that the heal is as viable as others that i have mentioned.

 

 

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > No, they literally never said that phrase in the context that you're using it. Play how you want was stated as a description of being able to play PvE or wvw or PvP, casually or hardcore or however you want and still make progress in the game.

> >

> > It never meant "use whatever garbage build you want".

>

> I am pretty sure it was along the lines of play how YOU want. I guess what they should have said was, Play how you want, as long as its in lines with how WE want you to play...

>

>

 

No, it was literally what I said. Over the years it's been co-opted by bad players to mean "I should be able to use my pvt bear bow in raids and raiders are elitist and toxic for kicking me".

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> No, it was literally what I said. Over the years it's been co-opted by bad players to mean "I should be able to use my pvt bear bow in raids and raiders are elitist and toxic for kicking me".

 

I am pretty sure, one of their "big" selling points was how there was no trinity and you could play how you like. The problem is. That was quite wrong and has been wrong for a LONG time. Havent they had raids that were beaten by a few people? I am sure they were quick to fix that though.

 

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> yeah you mentioned Axe, So if for example you took any weapon set, ignoring weapon cool downs. How would you be able to best produce clones? The issue i could see with Scepter is that after 3 clones are up. You cant create anymore. Can other skills that create clones destroy a clone to create a new one? If it wasnt for just how much i cant stand Mirage i would try it, but every time i have played it. I have hated it :/

>

> fast paced clone spam? But how? I have tried many, i just cant see how you could get enough creation to make it that the heal is as viable as others that i have mentioned.

>

>

I'm not really following you, it's either "viable" or it's not, you're contradicting yourself across posts in the thread. Noting, of course, that viable is totally situational.

 

It doesn't have to be axe, as I said, your example with GS would also work fine. Staff as well with double Warlock and double phantasm > clone conversion, etc. The real point is Mirage with Self-Deception and Deception utilities. Does it outdo Chronophantasma? I don't know, I haven't tested it.

 

All I was answering was your question as to where else it could be worthwhile (right after you said it could be really solid with scepter then went on to say it needs a LOT of work to be even slightly viable). I gave my example, with the number of clones that could be generated. It should be quite easy to compare that to a Chronophantasma build. I don't play Chronophantasma or care enough to do the math. I'm not making an argument for better or worse. Just answering your question with anecdotal evidence of where I see it sorta shine and adding my feedback on how I agree it could be improved.

 

In the build I'm using as reference you have all the sources I previously mentioned. With axes cooldown traited, plus Self-Deception, Illusionary Ambush, Mirage Advance/Return, and Jaunt you have clone generation on relatively short cooldowns IF an illusion is already out. I don't know if Mirage Advance AND Return both trigger Self-Deception, but Return for sure leaves a clone. If both trigger Self-Deception that's 3 clones for one skill on 25s cooldown. To my knowledge, and please check to see if I'm right cause I'd like to know ;p, at max clones the oldest is destroyed upon generation of a new one (why you wouldn't be shattering, I don't know, especially with 2 Mind Wracks available on a stupid short CD).

 

So let's say I execute only my axe/pistol skills with all my available Deception utilities. That's 11 clones on a let's ball park it at ~20s cooldown. Let's pick 400 as the average heal from the Signet. That's 4400 in healing every 20s. I call that pretty nice, especially with the full Signet still available for heal. If you trait clone on dodge in Dueling with near perm vigor and endurance food on top of all this........hory cow! That's honestly the first time I did all the math, kinda wow.

 

Now, in my experience this all relies on the short cooldowns, teleports, and quick cycling of skills in combat. My build relies on hybrid damage and being very hard to nail down to juke and jive my way through an enemy with sustain from partial Celestial stats and now, possibly, SoE. One large hole is the short range on axe 2 to be able to get a clone, but Jaunt, Mirage Advance, and sword skills help keep me on target.

 

I had no appreciation for Mirage at first either, I played support Chrono for the last year and PU condi before that. The dodge was the hardest thing for me to get the hang of and situationally using Ambush is still hard, but it's really grown on me.

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> I'm not really following you, it's either "viable" or it's not, you're contradicting yourself across posts in the thread. Noting, of course, that viable is totally situational.

>

> It doesn't have to be axe, as I said, your example with GS would also work fine. Staff as well with double Warlock and double phantasm > clone conversion, etc. The real point is Mirage with Self-Deception and Deception utilities. Does it outdo Chronophantasma? I don't know, I haven't tested it.

 

For me, it MIGHT be viable in PvE, thats fine. Always good. For PvP and WvW. I just dont see it, i just dont see how it can be viable in terms of the healing. The cool down is too long, granted the added effect of resetting the illusion cool downs are cool but isnt that already added when you consider the cool down of Healing Siget and Restro Signet. So, why is the cool down SO high. too me, i think it could do with a 5-10second cool down reduction to try and push it into being a little bit more viable.

 

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> All I was answering was your question as to where else it could be worthwhile (right after you said it could be really solid with scepter then went on to say it needs a LOT of work to be even slightly viable). I gave my example, with the number of clones that could be generated. It should be quite easy to compare that to a Chronophantasma build. I don't play Chronophantasma or care enough to do the math. I'm not making an argument for better or worse. Just answering your question with anecdotal evidence of where I see it sorta shine and adding my feedback on how I agree it could be improved.

 

Well, from what i have been seeing. Using the GS trait and ChronoPhantasma is 8 procs, at near base healing power, i got around 2.1k healing. Adding 900! Healing Power it went up from 2.1k to 2.4k that is pretty poor, thats about a 50heal per a proc increase for NINE hundred healing power increase!? Look at like this, Resto Signet heals per a cast. Every cast and Healing Signet is per 1 second but the current state here is minimal "burst" healing from using SOME of the Phantasms if you are traited correctly but minor healing for others.

 

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> In the build I'm using as reference you have all the sources I previously mentioned. With axes cooldown traited, plus Self-Deception, Illusionary Ambush, Mirage Advance/Return, and Jaunt you have clone generation on relatively short cooldowns IF an illusion is already out. I don't know if Mirage Advance AND Return both trigger Self-Deception, but Return for sure leaves a clone. If both trigger Self-Deception that's 3 clones for one skill on 25s cooldown. To my knowledge, and please check to see if I'm right cause I'd like to know ;p, at max clones the oldest is destroyed upon generation of a new one (why you wouldn't be shattering, I don't know, especially with 2 Mind Wracks available on a stupid short CD).

 

Mind posting the build? The Axe cool down trait is kinda like the other cool down traits. Would the GS trait actually be better due to double iZerker Vs a single Phantasm from the OH? How does Illusionary Ambush help? Seeing as you aren't summoning any? Unless you mean when combined with the trait. All of that has requirements but how would you handle condition builds and such? I mean who would be able to run a full Deception utility and elite? As you would struggle. Losing Decoy as well would be rather painful.

 

Mirage Advance and Return both trigger a clone with the trait, without it only advance does. So you get 2 clones from that. You dont get 3 from it, i have tried in various ways to see if i could get 3 from it. I could only get 2. As you need a clone out already, so i even tried summoning clone, using Advance shattering then using retreat, i still got a clone. So i am not sure. Maybe there is some way to get 3 from it, i just couldnt. That again assumes you are taking the Ammo trait, assuming you have the traitline. So if you dont, its weaker.

 

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> So let's say I execute only my axe/pistol skills with all my available Deception utilities. That's 11 clones on a let's ball park it at ~20s cooldown. Let's pick 400 as the average heal from the Signet. That's 4400 in healing every 20s. I call that pretty nice, especially with the full Signet still available for heal. If you trait clone on dodge in Dueling with near perm vigor and endurance food on top of all this........hory cow! That's honestly the first time I did all the math, kinda wow.

 

Im counting 10, but that would need you to be using Lingering Thoughts, iDuelist, plus the correct 3 utilities and the elite 3 times, thats using a hell of a lot of abilities which leaves you with very little options while everything comes back from cool down. Also isnt it 25seconds as some of the needed utilities come with 25second cool down? Now, in that 20-25second cool down of you having to use 9 abilities i wonder how much Restro Signet heals, i wonder how much Healing Signet heals.

 

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> Now, in my experience this all relies on the short cooldowns, teleports, and quick cycling of skills in combat. My build relies on hybrid damage and being very hard to nail down to juke and jive my way through an enemy with sustain from partial Celestial stats and now, possibly, SoE. One large hole is the short range on axe 2 to be able to get a clone, but Jaunt, Mirage Advance, and sword skills help keep me on target.

 

Not really short cool downs, a few short cooldowns but the likes of iDuelist, iLock and some of the utilities are 20-25second cool downs SoE wont give you much sustain given how limited use it is. I think if they increase the healing and/or healing Power increase as well as a 5-10second cool down reduction then maybe. In its current state it just seems a little too weak.

 

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> I had no appreciation for Mirage at first either, I played support Chrono for the last year and PU condi before that. The dodge was the hardest thing for me to get the hang of and situationally using Ambush is still hard, but it's really grown on me.

 

yeah i have tried and tried, i really dont like the dodge lol but i might see if i can do something with it, i had an AWESOME hybrid Chrono build (Scepter/Shield + Staff) and seeing people freak getitng hit by 10k+ laser death beam was awesome. Man i hate PU always have, always will lol

[Tinnel.4369]

@"ArmageddonAsh.6430" I already stated I thought both the scaling and/or cooldown could use help. I don't know the math or scaling on other classes signets.

 

It's not a single phantasm on OH, it's the Phantasm plus it's conversion to clone (I just tested this). So that would apply to any phantasm on any weapon. i.e. Warlock is worth 4 illusions as SoE is concerned.

 

Illusionary Ambush procs the trait AND drops the enemy's target on you (same with Axe 3). On top of it being a pretty legit power weapon Axe 3 helps the elusive nature of my build. IA also gives you a 1s evade and a "free" Ambush and both skills reset your illusions target to your current target.

 

Mirage Advance also procs the trait, but Mirage Return does not, but Mirage Return leaves a clone which is in its tooltip (just tested this too). This would take my count of 11 to 10.

 

Elusive Mind and Jaunt are pretty good at handling conditions, not perfect, but the meta is what it is.

 

~20s was an arbitrary average. Duelist is 20s for 2 illusions, Axe 2 is 8s for 2 clones, IA is 20s for 2 clones, MA/R is ~25s for 2 clones, Jaunt is 3 on ~20s. So the average skill cooldown is 18.6s. You can do the math per clone if you like. ;) The example I gave with 4400 healing is of course a max loadout, but even in a "normal" axe/p rotation I'm going to do iDuelist > Axe 2 x 2 > MA > IA > and at least one Jaunt. That's 7 clones, my SoE is currently proccing at 371 heal at 350 healing power (this is without max Star Sigil stacks). That's 2597 healing over the course of my first "burst". That leaves me with MR, 2 Jaunts, and with traited axe cooldown Axe 2 is basically ready again (6.5s). That's another 1855 healing ready to go. Axe 3 is also up 1.5s after Axe 2 to allow me to drop target and continue the grinding. Keep in mind we're only talking about one weapon set, too, there's another rotation to go through which is more stealth/evasion/sustain while cds come around, but there's still clones being generated. In my case that's sw/t which has 3 more clones available for 1113 healing, plus my 20-25s utilities are coming off CD. So, yes, I feel pretty comfortable saying with SoE under active combat I can sustain ~4k healing every 20s. Add clone on dodge which I feel like I'm talking myself into and it goes up more.

 

Too weak? I dunno, again I'm just answering your original question man. Spellbreakers are broken for many reasons, but they can't drop target, teleport, and stealth either. At some point things become relative.

 

I haven't decided which combination of Illus/Chaos/Dueling I like best with Mirage, but my armor and weapons are all Grieving, trinkets all Celestial, Traveler Runes, Energy Sigils x 2, Star Sigil, and not sure on the 4th totally yet, depends on what trait line I settle on I think.

[Tinnel.4369]

Damage wise, sc/p in a hybrid build is pretty nasty, less so now from the confusion nerf, but it'll make them piddle their pants a bit. Don't forget pistol got buffed, not huge, but it counts. When I want range in my decidedly melee build I put scepter in or if it's really bad staff.

[Abelisk.4527]

Signet of the Ether + Chronophantasma + Imagined Burden + Continuum Split + Signet trait

[Tinnel.4369]

How does Chronophantasma work if you can't shatter Phantasms? Does it go phantasm, destroyed/clone, resummon phantasm, which is then destroyed/clone?

[bart.3687]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> How does Chronophantasma work if you can't shatter Phantasms? Does it go phantasm, destroyed/clone, resummon phantasm, which is then destroyed/clone?

 

It is phantasm -> resummoned phantasm -> clone.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> I already stated I thought both the scaling and/or cooldown could use help. I don't know the math or scaling on other classes signets.

> It's not a single phantasm on OH, it's the Phantasm plus it's conversion to clone (I just tested this). So that would apply to any phantasm on any weapon. i.e. Warlock is worth 4 illusions as SoE is concerned.

 

I would say, it needs both. So with most weapons you will be able to proc it like 3-4 times, every 20ish seconds. Not a huge amount. Weapons like GS and Staff will of course proc it more often. Though still not a huge amount.

 

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> Illusionary Ambush procs the trait AND drops the enemy's target on you (same with Axe 3). On top of it being a pretty legit power weapon Axe 3 helps the elusive nature of my build. IA also gives you a 1s evade and a "free" Ambush and both skills reset your illusions target to your current target.

>

> Mirage Advance also procs the trait, but Mirage Return does not, but Mirage Return leaves a clone which is in its tooltip (just tested this too). This would take my count of 11 to 10.

>

> Elusive Mind and Jaunt are pretty good at handling conditions, not perfect, but the meta is what it is.

 

Isn't the fact that they reset your illusions target kinda pointless now that they attack and then die? So now all it does is reset CLONE target. Unless you plan on starting the cast, waiting for them to be getting ready to attack and then using it and swapping target, but would that even work? I'd hardly call 1 condition removed every 20seconds pretty good. Sure you could remove 3 once every 60seconds. Sounds awesome.

 

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> ~20s was an arbitrary average. Duelist is 20s for 2 illusions, Axe 2 is 8s for 2 clones, IA is 20s for 2 clones, MA/R is ~25s for 2 clones, Jaunt is 3 on ~20s. So the average skill cooldown is 18.6s. You can do the math per clone if you like. ;) The example I gave with 4400 healing is of course a max loadout, but even in a "normal" axe/p rotation I'm going to do iDuelist > Axe 2 x 2 > MA > IA > and at least one Jaunt. That's 7 clones, my SoE is currently proccing at 371 heal at 350 healing power (this is without max Star Sigil stacks). That's 2597 healing over the course of my first "burst". That leaves me with MR, 2 Jaunts, and with traited axe cooldown Axe 2 is basically ready again (6.5s). That's another 1855 healing ready to go. Axe 3 is also up 1.5s after Axe 2 to allow me to drop target and continue the grinding. Keep in mind we're only talking about one weapon set, too, there's another rotation to go through which is more stealth/evasion/sustain while cds come around, but there's still clones being generated. In my case that's sw/t which has 3 more clones available for 1113 healing, plus my 20-25s utilities are coming off CD. So, yes, I feel pretty comfortable saying with SoE under active combat I can sustain ~4k healing every 20s. Add clone on dodge which I feel like I'm talking myself into and it goes up more.

 

4k every 20seconds (more like 20-25seconds) is like 200 per a second healing. Hardly great. Not even that good burst healing. Again, i would say having to use a huge chunk of your abilities to get a 4k heal over what ever seconds isnt that great, what do you do between your burst? Your healing drops off hugely between your Burst, then waiting for it to come back up. I would assume by mentioning Shatter you run Restorative Illusions. Do you run Sympathic Visage? How do you feel about it? Im kinda tempted to give it a try now that i dont run any Mantras

 

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> Too weak? I dunno, again I'm just answering your original question man. Spellbreakers are broken for many reasons, but they can't drop target, teleport, and stealth either. At some point things become relative.

>

> I haven't decided which combination of Illus/Chaos/Dueling I like best with Mirage, but my armor and weapons are all Grieving, trinkets all Celestial, Traveler Runes, Energy Sigils x 2, Star Sigil, and not sure on the 4th totally yet, depends on what trait line I settle on I think.

 

Too be fair, you dont need to teleport when you have all the mobility they have, they dont need to stealth or drop target when they have so much passive healing and defensive traits, skills, blocks, invuls.

 

Im currently looking at Inspiration: 3/2/1, Illusions: 3/2/2, Mirage 1/3/1 with Axe/Pistol and Staff. Travelers of course a must Staff i run Draining/Agility currently but not sure for Axe/Pistol currently trying to decide the armour, accessories are of course Cele, weapons are a mix i got Zealot staff and Zerker Axe and Pistol with a mix of Grieving and Cav armour Ascended Cav chest and legs, Grieving everything else

 

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"bart.3687" said:

> > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > How does Chronophantasma work if you can't shatter Phantasms? Does it go phantasm, destroyed/clone, resummon phantasm, which is then destroyed/clone?

>

> It is phantasm -> resummoned phantasm -> clone.

 

That probably ~competes with Self-Deception then depending on how you run things. That should make SoE synergize with Healing Prism then too, no? Wonder how that competes with Restorative Mantras and the heal mantra. Might let support chrono focus more on weapon skills and phantasm generation that working the utility side of the bar. Healing from power could promote more Wanderer's gear over Minstrel's?

[Tinnel.4369]

@"ArmageddonAsh.6430" I'm sorry man, but you're not following me nor fully understanding Mesmer or Mirage. Your sarcasm under such conditions is just lost on me.

 

Jaunt is a 3 ammo skill on 20s CD, that's 3 condi clears every 20s, plus damage, plus confusion application, plus leap finisher, plus 450 teleport.

 

Elusive Mind is stun break and condi clear on dodge traited. With high vigor uptime, energy sigils, and endurance food this is nice clears.

 

I did all the math for you with cooldowns, yet you say "more like 20-25s" if your math conflicts with mine please lay it out. I spelled out for you exactly what I do (or can do) after my burst in the off rotation. Literally my entire possible rotation is spelled out with cooldowns and is well over 4k (5565 to be exact) in 20s. Again, if your math conflicts please present it.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, clones can only shatter on the target they were generated on and expire when that target dies. Being able to reset them is hugely beneficial for multiple reasons. Original target almost dead? Switch. Original target reset and something else is up your ass? Switch.

 

No, I don't run Restorative Illusions or Sympathetic Visage, because as I stated I don't run Inspiration.

 

I don't have to use a huge chunk of my abilities to get 4k healing, I'm getting 4k healing from abilities I'm using already. Literally, the only thing I've done in the build is changed the heal, added one deception skill, and played with a couple different trait lines. The rotation hasn't changed since the patch.

 

4k is not that big in relation to what? If you normalize to the 35s cooldown of the signet which in my build is about ~5800 healing + the ~7000 passive in the same time frame that's 12.8k healing every 35s. Putting it on par or better than the rest of our healing options. AGAIN, this is under an active illusion generation and shatter playstyle, ironically, what ANet put forth as a reasoning for change.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" I'm sorry man, but you're not following me nor fully understanding Mesmer or Mirage. Your sarcasm under such conditions is just lost on me.

>

> Jaunt is a 3 ammo skill on 20s CD, that's 3 condi clears every 20s, plus damage, plus confusion application, plus leap finisher, plus 450 teleport.

>

> Elusive Mind is stun break and condi clear on dodge traited. With high vigor uptime, energy sigils, and endurance food this is nice clears.

>

> I did all the math for you with cooldowns, yet you say "more like 20-25s" if your math conflicts with mine please lay it out. I spelled out for you exactly what I do (or can do) after my burst in the off rotation. Literally my entire possible rotation is spelled out with cooldowns and is well over 4k (5565 to be exact) in 20s. Again, if your math conflicts please present it.

>

> Unless I'm mistaken, clones can only shatter on the target they were generated on and expire when that target dies. Being able to reset them is hugely beneficial for multiple reasons. Original target almost dead? Switch. Original target reset and something else is up your kitten? Switch.

>

> No, I don't run Restorative Illusions or Sympathetic Visage, because as I stated I don't run Inspiration.

>

> I don't have to use a huge chunk of my abilities to get 4k healing, I'm getting 4k healing from abilities I'm using already. Literally, the only thing I've done in the build is changed the heal, added one deception skill, and played with a couple different trait lines. The rotation hasn't changed since the patch.

>

> 4k is not that big in relation to what? If you normalize to the 35s cooldown of the signet which in my build is about ~5800 healing + the ~7000 passive in the same time frame that's 12.8k healing every 35s. Putting it on par or better than the rest of our healing options. AGAIN, this is under an active illusion generation and shatter playstyle, ironically, what ANet put forth as a reasoning for change.

 

is it not like all ammo skills, where it wont actually recharge them all at the same time. It will recharge one and then recharge the next one and then the next one? So it isnt 3 every 20seconds. Then why mention about shatters seeing as how you wont be getting anything from shatters other than damage? But you're having to use a lot of skills to get the 4k healing, Much more healing done passively by Warrior and more healing done by ele which gets healing from EVERYTHING they do.

 

4k isnt big in terms of pretty much anything. Even when you say about the 12.8k healing which i am guessing you have quite a lot of healing power. Under the right situation i can get 12k healing in a FULL up front heal. No need for passive healing or anything for it, Much less cool down as well.

 

Too me, could be quite useful for PvE, Not so much for PvP/WvW

[Tinnel.4369]

@"ArmageddonAsh.6430" You've got to start acknowledging and incorporating details if I'm to continue the discussion.

 

You are correct on the Jaunt cooldown. Meaning, we were both wrong. It is neither 1 every 20s nor 3 every 20s, but rather a front loaded 3 and 1 every 20s thereafter or 6 every 60s depending on how you manage it. Regardless, I don't worry much about condis, I don't Mirages that do, unless it's a Scourge bomb. I don't even know Mirage's not running Jaunt. Further, this is about SoE.

 

I mentioned nothing about shatters except in response to your comment about wasting them and I already addressed that once. They're never wasted in terms of SoE, they are wasted in terms of shatters. Shatters get me nothing in terms of healing or cleanses, never ever said it did.

 

Again, as I said, I'm using no extra skills, it's passive to my already established rotation, just like the Warrior or Elementalist. Each and every one of the skills that generate a clone have a specific benefit on top of generating the clone. I was even already taking the trait for the extra clone on burst.

 

Since you insist on the reference, please quantify Warrior and Elementalist's passive healing. How much? Not, "I think", but how much? Then you can make a head to head comparison, though it's lost on me because I'm not after what Warrior or Elementalists have, but rather how I can best use what I've got.

 

Please provide the evidence for the 12k up front heal. If you mean Ether Feast where you need to plan/retain max clones, that's situational and I don't quite see how it hits 12k. If you mean low health from Power Return, that's again situational. I have to do nothing, but play hard.

 

If you don't think ~1/3 of your health metered in between cooldowns of your heal is significant then that's certainly fine, I just disagree.

 

I gave you my healing power, I gave you my rotation, I gave you all the math, you're just refusing to digest them and incorporate them into the discussion.

 

And yet again, I stated the coefficient and cooldown could use help. I never claimed best or better, I answered your question with finite detail as to a situation where it seems viable.

 

It doesn't suit you? Great, play what does. Unless you have evidence to further the discussion, I'm done here.