Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 > @"narcx.3570" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > I've been having DPS problems myself. I can't break 31k, even though all of the rotations/builds are doing 36k. > > > > I can see one problem: the ambushes refuse to work for me. I estimate that one out of every three times I dodge, I won't ambush. I'll just do another auto attack chain. Keep in mind, I do two full auto chains before using an ambush attack to give the clones a chance to do damage, so it isn't the ambush cooldown. It doesn't matter if I mash the auto attack button or just let the game actually go on auto. It doesn't matter of I am dodging, walking into a mirror, or using Illusory Ambush. > > > > The game mechanic just magically doesn't work for me. I don't know what is wrong. > > Three things: > > You often have to press 1 after evading to do your ambush... I don't know if it's a range issue or an issue with mirage cloak, but it's inconsistent--always manually use Ambush even if you play with aa turned on to be safe. > > Don't spam evade/step on mirror crystal things... It takes a bit for your axe clones to actually attack (noticeably longer than it takes you because of quickness/manual casting to cancel after animations). If you evade again before you see them launch their axes, you've effectively wasted a mirage cloak cast. Always wait to see/hear them attack if you're not 100% confident on your timing. > > Never break your AA chain. Even if you accidentally start an AA chain, let it finish before using a skill/evading because the third hit is around 6 times as powerful as either of the first two strike and is worth getting to. I already do all of that. My ambushes still refuse to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @"narcx.3570" said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > I've been having DPS problems myself. I can't break 31k, even though all of the rotations/builds are doing 36k. > > > > > > I can see one problem: the ambushes refuse to work for me. I estimate that one out of every three times I dodge, I won't ambush. I'll just do another auto attack chain. Keep in mind, I do two full auto chains before using an ambush attack to give the clones a chance to do damage, so it isn't the ambush cooldown. It doesn't matter if I mash the auto attack button or just let the game actually go on auto. It doesn't matter of I am dodging, walking into a mirror, or using Illusory Ambush. > > > > > > The game mechanic just magically doesn't work for me. I don't know what is wrong. > > > > Three things: > > > > You often have to press 1 after evading to do your ambush... I don't know if it's a range issue or an issue with mirage cloak, but it's inconsistent--always manually use Ambush even if you play with aa turned on to be safe. > > > > Don't spam evade/step on mirror crystal things... It takes a bit for your axe clones to actually attack (noticeably longer than it takes you because of quickness/manual casting to cancel after animations). If you evade again before you see them launch their axes, you've effectively wasted a mirage cloak cast. Always wait to see/hear them attack if you're not 100% confident on your timing. > > > > Never break your AA chain. Even if you accidentally start an AA chain, let it finish before using a skill/evading because the third hit is around 6 times as powerful as either of the first two strike and is worth getting to. > > I already do all of that. My ambushes still refuse to work. I mean, what do you want us to say? You're obviously doing it wrong, it's not like the game just hates you or anything. If you want more help you could record yourself trying to reach the benchmark and people could tell you what you're doing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 > @"Lotheap Mitty.6103" said: > > @"Toku.5972" said: > > With absolutely full buffs (*every* option on) I'm only hitting 23-24k. I should be hitting 32-34k > Things you might miss out: > infusions > 25 stack of vuln on golem > food+nourishment > complete full auto chain before using skills that break it > stand inside the hitbox > and don't use symmetry > Is symmetry a dps loss again? Pre-patch it was an increase to include and I thought it's basically the same--just torment now... Aside from the PvP split, what changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofouci.1320 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > @"melrokk.5938" said: > > > Instead of a thousand words... > > > Here is the actual video for condi mirage > > > > > > > This looks like the phant mirage build instead of the clone mirage build. I'm currently running the clone mirage build like found here https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ and my numbers resemble that of the OP's. I have not tried switching to the phant mirage build but will do so tonight to see if that makes a difference. > > How on earth does that look like phantasm mirage and what rock have you lived under the past 5 days? Easier there killer! Phant mirage build uses pistol/torch (https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ in case you missed it the first time) which I clearly see in his skill bar. I did not say I saw phantasms, now did I? Now go get back under YOUR rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofouci.1320 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > > @"melrokk.5938" said: > > > > Instead of a thousand words... > > > > Here is the actual video for condi mirage > > > > > > > > > > This looks like the phant mirage build instead of the clone mirage build. I'm currently running the clone mirage build like found here https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ and my numbers resemble that of the OP's. I have not tried switching to the phant mirage build but will do so tonight to see if that makes a difference. > > > > How on earth does that look like phantasm mirage and what rock have you lived under the past 5 days? > > Easier there killer! Phant mirage build uses pistol/torch (https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ in case you missed it the first time) which I clearly see in his skill bar. I did not say I saw phantasms, now did I? Now go get back under YOUR rock. And also the build clearly makes use of phantasms; as stated in the video description if you view it on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > I mean, what do you want us to say? You're obviously doing it wrong, it's not like the game just hates you or anything. If you want more help you could record yourself trying to reach the benchmark and people could tell you what you're doing wrong. Obviously I am looking to see if this is a known bug, or if it can be replicated, or if there is some unknown mechanic which makes it so mirage cloak doesn't work even when you dodge or lose energy for dodging, or if somebody else is having the same issues I am. At least something more than generic advice from somebody who clearly didn't read further than the first sentence of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofouci.1320 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > I mean, what do you want us to say? You're obviously doing it wrong, it's not like the game just hates you or anything. If you want more help you could record yourself trying to reach the benchmark and people could tell you what you're doing wrong. > > Obviously I am looking to see if this is a known bug, or if it can be replicated, or if there is some unknown mechanic which makes it so mirage cloak doesn't work even when you dodge or lose energy for dodging, or if somebody else is having the same issues I am. At least something more than generic advice from somebody who clearly didn't read further than the first sentence of my post. > It's not you. If you turn on the boons and conditions at the golem for the dps run you'll find your closer to 23k which is what I was seeing post confusion changes. I do have an asc pistol to run axe/pistol and torch to swap to in combat in effort to replicate what we saw in the video. Which btw, if you view it on youtube in the description there is more deatil about the build which does make use of the phantasm changes. Full vipers/renegade runes, malice/energy is still the way to go. It's just learning this new rotation and how the phantasms/clones work best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodgruve.6038 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I've messed with the build in the video that was posted. Only able to hit 30K. I'm sure my rotation/priority isn't spot on but I have a few questions. How much DPS am I losing by not having Malign Infusions? Does Mirage Cloak and/or Ambush interrupt AA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > > @"melrokk.5938" said: > > > > Instead of a thousand words... > > > > Here is the actual video for condi mirage > > > > > > > > > > This looks like the phant mirage build instead of the clone mirage build. I'm currently running the clone mirage build like found here https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ and my numbers resemble that of the OP's. I have not tried switching to the phant mirage build but will do so tonight to see if that makes a difference. > > > > How on earth does that look like phantasm mirage and what rock have you lived under the past 5 days? > > Easier there killer! Phant mirage build uses pistol/torch (https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ in case you missed it the first time) which I clearly see in his skill bar. I did not say I saw phantasms, now did I? Now go get back under YOUR rock. What you're missing is that there is no longer a distinction between "clone mirage" and "phantasm mirage". Anet released a rework of phantasms this past tuesday, making it so that phantasms are temporary summons that no longer count towards the illusion count. All mirage builds will utilize torch and pistol for the damage that the phantasms provide and it is no longer possible to actually make a build revolving around phantasms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Bloodgruve.6038" said: > I've messed with the build in the video that was posted. Only able to hit 30K. I'm sure my rotation/priority isn't spot on but I have a few questions. > > How much DPS am I losing by not having Malign Infusions? > > Does Mirage Cloak and/or Ambush interrupt AA? Mirage cloak will cause clones to interrupt their auto in favor of using the ambush, ditto for the personal autoattack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofouci.1320 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > > > @"melrokk.5938" said: > > > > > Instead of a thousand words... > > > > > Here is the actual video for condi mirage > > > > > > > > > > > > > This looks like the phant mirage build instead of the clone mirage build. I'm currently running the clone mirage build like found here https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ and my numbers resemble that of the OP's. I have not tried switching to the phant mirage build but will do so tonight to see if that makes a difference. > > > > > > How on earth does that look like phantasm mirage and what rock have you lived under the past 5 days? > > > > Easier there killer! Phant mirage build uses pistol/torch (https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ in case you missed it the first time) which I clearly see in his skill bar. I did not say I saw phantasms, now did I? Now go get back under YOUR rock. > > What you're missing is that there is no longer a distinction between "clone mirage" and "phantasm mirage". Anet released a rework of phantasms this past tuesday, making it so that phantasms are temporary summons that no longer count towards the illusion count. All mirage builds will utilize torch and pistol for the damage that the phantasms provide and it is no longer possible to actually make a build revolving around phantasms I didn't miss this fact. Was stating how the new build resembled the old Phant mirage build that some used pre-balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > > > > @"melrokk.5938" said: > > > > > > Instead of a thousand words... > > > > > > Here is the actual video for condi mirage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This looks like the phant mirage build instead of the clone mirage build. I'm currently running the clone mirage build like found here https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ and my numbers resemble that of the OP's. I have not tried switching to the phant mirage build but will do so tonight to see if that makes a difference. > > > > > > > > How on earth does that look like phantasm mirage and what rock have you lived under the past 5 days? > > > > > > Easier there killer! Phant mirage build uses pistol/torch (https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ in case you missed it the first time) which I clearly see in his skill bar. I did not say I saw phantasms, now did I? Now go get back under YOUR rock. > > > > What you're missing is that there is no longer a distinction between "clone mirage" and "phantasm mirage". Anet released a rework of phantasms this past tuesday, making it so that phantasms are temporary summons that no longer count towards the illusion count. All mirage builds will utilize torch and pistol for the damage that the phantasms provide and it is no longer possible to actually make a build revolving around phantasms > > I didn't miss this fact. Was stating how the new build resembled the old Phant mirage build that some used pre-balance. It'd be more accurate to say that it's the Axe/Clone build with the new phantasm skills tac'ed on, since the core of the build/bulk of your dps is still sharing Imaginary Axes through Infinite Horizon. As opposed to the old Phantasm build where you let your phantasms do their thang while you watched netflix on your phone... This hardly resembles that beyond the weapon choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"narcx.3570" said: > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > > @"Bofouci.1320" said: > > > > > > > @"melrokk.5938" said: > > > > > > > Instead of a thousand words... > > > > > > > Here is the actual video for condi mirage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This looks like the phant mirage build instead of the clone mirage build. I'm currently running the clone mirage build like found here https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ and my numbers resemble that of the OP's. I have not tried switching to the phant mirage build but will do so tonight to see if that makes a difference. > > > > > > > > > > How on earth does that look like phantasm mirage and what rock have you lived under the past 5 days? > > > > > > > > Easier there killer! Phant mirage build uses pistol/torch (https://snowcrows.com/raids/mesmer/ in case you missed it the first time) which I clearly see in his skill bar. I did not say I saw phantasms, now did I? Now go get back under YOUR rock. > > > > > > What you're missing is that there is no longer a distinction between "clone mirage" and "phantasm mirage". Anet released a rework of phantasms this past tuesday, making it so that phantasms are temporary summons that no longer count towards the illusion count. All mirage builds will utilize torch and pistol for the damage that the phantasms provide and it is no longer possible to actually make a build revolving around phantasms > > > > I didn't miss this fact. Was stating how the new build resembled the old Phant mirage build that some used pre-balance. > > It'd be more accurate to say that it's the Axe/Clone build with the new phantasm skills tac'ed on, since the core of the build/bulk of your dps is still sharing Imaginary Axes through Infinite Horizon. As opposed to the old Phantasm build where you let your phantasms do their thang while you watched netflix on your phone... This hardly resembles that beyond the weapon choices. Exactly, which is why saying "oh, I'm using the clone build, not the phantasm build and that's why I'm not getting as much dps" is ridiculous @"Bofouci.1320" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The worst part about that video is that the graphics and bloom are cranked up to the max. I'm running it at 1/4th speed and all I see is still a bunch of bright lights. All I can discern from the video is this: Use phantasms, deceptions, and ambushes when they are of cooldown, except for axes of symmetry. Just do that randomly. Don't bother with letting clones complete their auto attacks. In fact, only complete the auto attack yourself sometimes. Mirage cloak miraculously works every time. Basically, ignore all the "common sense" advice people give. The only difference between my build and that one is that I have berserker runes instead of renegade, and I don't have the infusions. But, that 5% drop in condition damage can't account for the missing 20% to be pulled from the ether. I remember hearing about this awhile ago. A big limiter to a lot of player's DPS is latency and hardware issues. I originally only saw this with the scrapper, where sometimes my toon would just sit there and not take action, even after pressing an action. Since they moved the servers, I haven't been able to match the DPS of any of the benchmarks. Even with food, I'm 10%-20% under the mark consistently. The more active the DPS rotation, the further down I am, and now that the rotation for mirage is more complex the divide is even wider. It is like the game itself is refusing to cooperate: there's lag on every skill and I have to mash buttons several times just to get things to respond. I didn't _just_ do 30k. I was practicing rotations for 3 hours last night. Trying out various combinations of which skills to use and in what order. 30.9k was my highest mark, with food, and it my luckiest run. Otherwise, I was struggling to break 28k. Quite frankly, I suspect that nobody here actually knows why everyone else is 30% under the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofouci.1320 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 @"Pyroatheist.9031" Ridiculous is getting wound up on the forums. If you're going to quote someone at least make sure you copy the exact quote. Nothing in my statement is untrue. I was using the clone mirage from the snowcrows site as stated and still are using that same build with only two changes in the build and that's adding a pistol and taking duelists discipline. I was referencing those builds because prior the video above being posted here I have not seen nor heard of another "named build" for the mirage spec. You're arguing a moot point here. I know the core mechanics behind the class have changed for phantasms and clones. I am pointing to a specific build with a specific name for point of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotheap Mitty.6103 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > Quite frankly, I suspect that nobody here actually knows why everyone else is 30% under the mark. could it be axe ambush hitting twice (4 times to be exact) is secretly fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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