mesmer too oppresive in pvp

[Zenith.7301]

Play an s/d daredevil. Mesmer dead. You're welcome.

[KeoLegend.5132]

stop feeding the troll

he has no idea what he is talking about. He might just be mad because his bias class lost a mesmer once and then cam in to complain about how op it was because it melted his scourge

[Chorazin.4107]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"Chorazin.4107" said:

> > Im not sure about oppressive but too much sustain for the burst a mesmer can put out. You want to be a glass cannon that is fine, give up sustain for it. Between the cloaks evade, blurred frenzy, distortion, stealth, teleports, dodges, and dazes you might finally be able to hit a mesmer.

> >

> > Getting hit for a 5.7k mind wrack with just one of the clones the other hit me for 5.5k on a 3k armour class with the -10% dmg reduction food is a bit much for the survivability mesmer has.

> >

> > I have no problem getting hit for crazy burst by eles because by definition they are glass cannons, they have an invuln in earth with a 50sec CD. A blink with lightning flash, and ......... FGS and run away? But if you are not careful you can be one shot, no probs with this. They are sacrificing 90% of their survivability for it, i think they should have a little more sustain tbh.

>

> What if i told you a power mesmer only has 2 sources of stealth maximum that you can't interrupt and that mirage cloak and dodges are the same thing.

 

What if i told you that you have 3 sources of stealth that you cant interrupt and 4 instant teleports you cannot interrupt. Now compare this to a glass ele, how many sources of stealth does a glass ele have? None. How many teleports? One, on a 40sec cooldown.

 

If you dont want to give up the sustain im also fine with that, nerf the burst in that instance. As a mesmer myself id prefer to keep the burst and lose the sustain. But one or the other has to go down a notch.

[musu.9205]

> @"Chorazin.4107" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"Chorazin.4107" said:

> > > Im not sure about oppressive but too much sustain for the burst a mesmer can put out. You want to be a glass cannon that is fine, give up sustain for it. Between the cloaks evade, blurred frenzy, distortion, stealth, teleports, dodges, and dazes you might finally be able to hit a mesmer.

> > >

> > > Getting hit for a 5.7k mind wrack with just one of the clones the other hit me for 5.5k on a 3k armour class with the -10% dmg reduction food is a bit much for the survivability mesmer has.

> > >

> > > I have no problem getting hit for crazy burst by eles because by definition they are glass cannons, they have an invuln in earth with a 50sec CD. A blink with lightning flash, and ......... FGS and run away? But if you are not careful you can be one shot, no probs with this. They are sacrificing 90% of their survivability for it, i think they should have a little more sustain tbh.

> >

> > What if i told you a power mesmer only has 2 sources of stealth maximum that you can't interrupt and that mirage cloak and dodges are the same thing.

>

> What if i told you that you have 3 sources of stealth that you cant interrupt and 4 instant teleports you cannot interrupt. Now compare this to a glass ele, how many sources of stealth does a glass ele have? None. How many teleports? One, on a 40sec cooldown.

>

> If you dont want to give up the sustain im also fine with that, nerf the burst in that instance. As a mesmer myself id prefer to keep the burst and lose the sustain. But one or the other has to go down a notch.

 

well a glass FA ele does need some help , but u forgot it has bit highter burst with even less tell . and if you take FA weaver into account , it has way more sustain dmg than any power mesmer build .without stealth , it would be much harder to do shatter combo on mesmer than FA ele without stealth .not to mention wvw stats are not balanced for many reasons .even more so for small scale fight .

 

also you can't simply just list sword daze as interrupt and cloak as defense tool .if you use dodge for interrupt you will have less dodge for defense . and why list mirage cloak ?every class has dodge including FA ele .

 

i assume what hit u 5k+ is likely illusion /duel power shatter , it has only one condi removal (elite )if its mirage . you can just apply weakness and other condition like chill cripple u will be fine ..

 

and btw decoy is too 2016 , especially IC is gone .are you sure you even play mesmer recently ?

 

now if you want to nerf sustain , aim at elusive mind , not those things that are not broken to begin with ,

 

 

[Lexan.5930]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > hey if i could INSANTLY cast 2 stuns and interupts at will and BLINK away or go INVULNERABLE for a few seconds on top of the built in evades and 2 dodge rolls and skills on 15 second CD's and all the other mobility, then i might be inclined to agree that mesmer burst and necro :cough: burst :cough: are on the same level, but i can;t do 20k in 2 seconds.. Takes like 10 at the least

> >

> > :p

>

> You can fear, you have 2 blinks, you get barrier constantly, you also have 2 dodge rolls, you also have a knockdown, semi constant cripple, easy access to chill, the most boon corruption in the game and also the most surivivability of any profession. Stuns and interrupts are the same thing, good try though. All of our stuns are dodgeable, Power Lock is the only one remotely difficult to dodge because it doesn't have an obvious tell. I mean, if you're getting hit by the one shot combo, you kinda deserve to, it's been in the game since launch practically and hasn't gotten any more difficult to dodge. Don't forget Scourge practically dominates point gameplay.

 

fear is a weak at best CC, it's a condi so condi cleanse will break it as well as resistance will keep you immune to it. Also necro fear has been in the game since launch and "if you get hit with it you kinda deserve it"

 

we have blink? we have an instant cast (no pre cast) 1200 range, targetable, INSTANT GETAWAY, on demand skill??????

Nope:

summon flesh wurm requires a pre-cast and can be destroyed putting it on full CD

necrotic transversal is not a blink because you have to move away from the cast position before you can go back, which is like literally the opposite of blink

and even sand swell has a 1 second cast time with only 600 range

 

blink can be used at any time as an engage or disengage skill at will that requires no pre-cast that breaks stun and moves you away 1200 units to ANYWHERE you can click.

 

barrier is poop and is basically a warrior going full vitality and taking heal signet when combined with endure pain and resistance, except endure pain makes you take no damage and resistance makes you take no damage from their respective damage.

 

you are confused with stuns interrupts and dazes. While dazed, and usually interrupted, you may still dodge roll and move around. A stun locks you in place and prevents all movement (including dodge rolls) and only a stun break will break you out of stun, and also daze. So being stunned, usually multiple times in a row by mesmer skills and then burst to high heaven by tracking minions is most of the time unavoidable. Especially if they are in stealth, or say blink in.

 

Of course scourge dominates points, thats all we can do. Sit a point and either kill or be killed. We don't rotate like a mesmer or a thief or even a druid, so we get some really big aoe's that are even eaiser to avoid now and don't move while people usually kill us from range, or stun lock us to death.> @"Takashiro.8701" said:

> > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > hey if i could INSANTLY cast 2 stuns and interupts at will and BLINK away or go INVULNERABLE for a few seconds on top of the built in evades and 2 dodge rolls and skills on 15 second CD's and all the other mobility, then i might be inclined to agree that mesmer burst and necro :cough: burst :cough: are on the same level, but i can;t do 20k in 2 seconds.. Takes like 10 at the least

> >

> > :p

>

> Yeah, it's not like reaper can do 20k with a single skill, right?

 

you mean spin to win? the skill that takes 2.75 seconds to finish? that you can just dodge roll away since it's so easy to see. Or if your a mesmer just blink away :)

[musu.9205]

> @"Lexan.5930" said:

 

> you are confused with stuns interrupts and dazes. While dazed, and usually interrupted, you may still dodge roll and move around. A stun locks you in place and prevents all movement (including dodge rolls) and only a stun break will break you out of stun, and also daze. So being stunned, usually multiple times in a row by mesmer skills and then burst to high heaven by tracking minions is most of the time unavoidable. Especially if they are in stealth, or say blink in.

>

> Of course scourge dominates points, thats all we can do. Sit a point and either kill or be killed. We don't rotate like a mesmer or a thief or even a druid, so we get some really big aoe's that are even eaiser to avoid now and don't move while people usually kill us from range, or stun lock us to death.>

 

so 0.5s red circle is easier to avoid (sand can not be killed )

 

0.75s mirror blade , 0.75s izerker casttime +slow attack speed and clone moving towards you (both phantasm and clone can be easily killed ) are most of time unavoidable .

 

"being stunned, usually multiple times in a row by mesmer skills ", the trait turns daze to stun has an icd 5s , you are wrong . plain and simple

 

living proof of how much scourge carried bad players .

you know unlike scourge , other classes do have cast time on their most big attack and also clear tell like clone moving towards you or a giant pink gs thrown at you . and most of those are fire and done unlike scourge sand which can constantly contest point .

 

[Catchyfx.5768]

> living proof of how much scourge carried bad players .

 

Dazes Are enough. 3/4 or 1 sec cast times on most of the skills. Scourge looks like Is carrying bad players cause there Is not much you can do. For blobing Its no problem, but that Is every class(in cata we Are equal). PvP idk i dont play. I dont wanna trash talk here. Just find solution how to fight(reaper) mesmer.(if Its possible fór necro). I can Dodge IT Now(burst,guildies help ) but after second roll(And second Burst) i have a window(no vigor) And dead anyway not even close a Gap. Is there anybody who Is playing both classes?

 

 

[Lexan.5930]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Lexan.5930" said:

>

> > you are confused with stuns interrupts and dazes. While dazed, and usually interrupted, you may still dodge roll and move around. A stun locks you in place and prevents all movement (including dodge rolls) and only a stun break will break you out of stun, and also daze. So being stunned, usually multiple times in a row by mesmer skills and then burst to high heaven by tracking minions is most of the time unavoidable. Especially if they are in stealth, or say blink in.

> >

> > Of course scourge dominates points, thats all we can do. Sit a point and either kill or be killed. We don't rotate like a mesmer or a thief or even a druid, so we get some really big aoe's that are even eaiser to avoid now and don't move while people usually kill us from range, or stun lock us to death.>

>

> so 0.5s red circle is easier to avoid (sand can not be killed )

>

> 0.75s mirror blade , 0.75s izerker casttime +slow attack speed and clone moving towards you (both phantasm and clone can be easily killed ) are most of time unavoidable .

>

> "being stunned, usually multiple times in a row by mesmer skills ", the trait turns daze to stun has an icd 5s , you are wrong . plain and simple

>

> living proof of how much scourge carried bad players .

> you know unlike scourge , other classes do have cast time on their most big attack and also clear tell like clone moving towards you or a giant pink gs thrown at you . and most of those are fire and done unlike scourge sand which can constantly contest point .

>

 

- clones cannot be "obstructed" since they move to the target destination,

- mind wrack is instant at clone location as well as mesmer location and those effects double up (shade and necro "sand" does not double up on 1 target)

- zerker + mind wrack +mirror blade + mind stab can all be timed to hit at the same time with a stun. closest combo necro has is desert shroud + well of suffering but well of suffering has a 900 range, does not track targets, is in a fixed location and pulses rather than explodes instantly

- a 5 second CD for a stun is shorter than it takes to regen a dodge charge

- daze on weapon skills, daze on shatter bar, daze on mirage elite makes interupting any defensive option, especially heal skill, next to impossible to cast, shortest on necro being .75 second cast time, east to interupt with multiple instant cast daze.

 

Again scrouge dominates on a point, not off a point or moving around, like a mesmer can. And a mesmer can summon clones and phantasms at range to eventaully wear down the scourge since the mesmer can run away, or chase, much easier than any necro build can.

[musu.9205]

> @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > @"musu.9205" said:

> > > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> >

> > > you are confused with stuns interrupts and dazes. While dazed, and usually interrupted, you may still dodge roll and move around. A stun locks you in place and prevents all movement (including dodge rolls) and only a stun break will break you out of stun, and also daze. So being stunned, usually multiple times in a row by mesmer skills and then burst to high heaven by tracking minions is most of the time unavoidable. Especially if they are in stealth, or say blink in.

> > >

> > > Of course scourge dominates points, thats all we can do. Sit a point and either kill or be killed. We don't rotate like a mesmer or a thief or even a druid, so we get some really big aoe's that are even eaiser to avoid now and don't move while people usually kill us from range, or stun lock us to death.>

> >

> > so 0.5s red circle is easier to avoid (sand can not be killed )

> >

> > 0.75s mirror blade , 0.75s izerker casttime +slow attack speed and clone moving towards you (both phantasm and clone can be easily killed ) are most of time unavoidable .

> >

> > "being stunned, usually multiple times in a row by mesmer skills ", the trait turns daze to stun has an icd 5s , you are wrong . plain and simple

> >

> > living proof of how much scourge carried bad players .

> > you know unlike scourge , other classes do have cast time on their most big attack and also clear tell like clone moving towards you or a giant pink gs thrown at you . and most of those are fire and done unlike scourge sand which can constantly contest point .

> >

>

> - clones cannot be "obstructed" since they move to the target destination,

> - mind wrack is instant at clone location as well as mesmer location and those effects double up (shade and necro "sand" does not double up on 1 target)

> - zerker + mind wrack +mirror blade + mind stab can all be timed to hit at the same time with a stun. closest combo necro has is desert shroud + well of suffering but well of suffering has a 900 range, does not track targets, is in a fixed location and pulses rather than explodes instantly

> - a 5 second CD for a stun is shorter than it takes to regen a dodge charge

> - daze on weapon skills, daze on shatter bar, daze on mirage elite makes interupting any defensive option, especially heal skill, next to impossible to cast, shortest on necro being .75 second cast time, east to interupt with multiple instant cast daze.

>

> Again scrouge dominates on a point, not off a point or moving around, like a mesmer can. And a mesmer can summon clones and phantasms at range to eventaully wear down the scourge since the mesmer can run away, or chase, much easier than any necro build can.

 

“clones cannot be "obstructed" since they move to the target destination”

you can dodge into it , i know scourge forgot what dodge button means but really . and btw anything you do to fool necro minion with stairs u can do same to clones .

 

"mind wrack is instant at clone location as well as mesmer location and those effects double up (shade and necro "sand" does not double up on 1 target)"

If the clone are summoned at melee range ,yes . but what's your point ?your sand skill are balanced around they don't stack . mind crack is balanced around multi clone do multi hit .you are like saying the first hit of 100b should be doing same damage of a backstab .

 

"zerker + mind wrack +mirror blade + mind stab can all be timed to hit at the same time with a stun"

 

they can , but they still have cast time .maybe you played scourge for too long and forgot about whats concept of casting time .but they do exist on other classes .and they server their purpose so you can dodge or interrupt the attack .

 

"daze on mirage elite"

let me link you something https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jaunt

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze

first you claimed its stun now you said this .

btw every class except war with their meme signet have to cover their heal skill . 1-0.75s heal is standard for most of us .

guess why this is a meme thread

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Lexan.5930" said:

> hey if i could INSANTLY cast 2 stuns and interupts at will and BLINK away or go INVULNERABLE for a few seconds on top of the built in evades and 2 dodge rolls and skills on 15 second CD's and all the other mobility, then i might be inclined to agree that mesmer burst and necro :cough: burst :cough: are on the same level, but i can;t do 20k in 2 seconds.. Takes like 10 at the least

>

> :p

 

You have access to 3 fears (1 which is unblockable...) as well as knockdowns and pulls, 2 teleports, Barriers, Condi bombing as well as constant condi application, Boon corruption, AoE of death around yourself and other areas.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

The victim complex is strong, I don't even know where to begin here.

[Dadnir.5038]

It's difficult to compare 2 professions that are totally different in philosophy. Comparing mesmer and necromancer is like comparing the moon and the sun, 2 very different things, one based on taking the hits and "plaguing" the area where it stand while the other is based on tricking it's foe and being "uncatchable". A clash of 2 philosopy, one of mobility and the other of passivity.

 

From a player point of view, the philosophy of passivity will obviously lead to oppressivity while the philosophy of mobility will be seen as something leading to a gameplay where players outplay others thanks to their wits. One thing is sure, a profession that follow the philosophy of passivity is bound be hated by it's opponent, because it have an impact on them that let them feel "dirty", thinking: "Seriously, this dude do nothing, he just stand there laying it's crap, can't even move. I shouldn't have been beaten by this, it must be OP". While being defeated by a profession following the philosophy of mobility, a profession that felt uncatchable, it won't give you this dirty feeling, it will give you a longing feeling that let you think: "He was obviously better, I couldn't see throught him. I have to get better!"

 

Two very different philosophy aiming for the same result, yet ending with very different critics.

 

The mesmer with it's fresh tweeks to it's main mechanism is right now under close watch from the developper in order to fine tune it. At the same time this mesmer 2.0 is a new thing in a game that tend to stagnate and thus it catch the crowd and everybody want to give it a go. It's way to soon to say that he is "oppressive" or not at this point.

[Lexan.5930]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > hey if i could INSANTLY cast 2 stuns and interupts at will and BLINK away or go INVULNERABLE for a few seconds on top of the built in evades and 2 dodge rolls and skills on 15 second CD's and all the other mobility, then i might be inclined to agree that mesmer burst and necro :cough: burst :cough: are on the same level, but i can;t do 20k in 2 seconds.. Takes like 10 at the least

> >

> > :p

>

> You have access to 3 fears (1 which is unblockable...) as well as knockdowns and pulls, 2 teleports, Barriers, Condi bombing as well as constant condi application, Boon corruption, AoE of death around yourself and other areas.

 

we can't take them all at once, and they have longer cooldowns than most mesmer skills, or they are useless in pvp because they are too situational or flat out avoidable

 

2 fears, 1 from shroud, 1 from staff 5. Sure we have the wall but it only fears if you walk into it, not if its cast at your location. 1 knockdown which is very very tellegraphed on a .75 cast time (@musu9205 we have more cast times, and longer than you do), a pull on a 50 second CD, barrier is again meh, we get less burst barrier than we get health from reaper shroud, mesmer has condi bombing and boon corruption on point, just go staff. aoe death around yourself and other locations is literally the complaint about shatters

 

mesmer has more options than necro clear and simple. more movement, disengage, burst combo, more conditions, more interupts, shorter cooldowns

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Lexan.5930" said:

> 2 fears, 1 from shroud, 1 from staff 5. Sure we have the wall but it only fears if you walk into it, not if its cast at your location. 1 knockdown which is very very tellegraphed on a .75 cast time (@musu9205 we have more cast times, and longer than you do), a pull on a 50 second CD, barrier is again meh, we get less burst barrier than we get health from reaper shroud, mesmer has condi bombing and boon corruption on point, just go staff. aoe death around yourself and other locations is literally the complaint about shatters

>

> mesmer has more options than necro clear and simple. more movement, disengage, burst combo, more conditions, more interupts, shorter cooldowns

 

I think you will find, you can take all the 3 fears (staff, Utility, Scourge F skill) You can also take the pull (Utility) and the Knockdown (Torch) The Barrier from Heal or F skills. So yes. You can take ALL of what i said in a single build. Weapons: Staff + X/Torch with Sand Flare, Spectral Grasp, Spectral Wall, Summon Flesh Wurm and Ghastly Breach. Boom. Everything i mentioned in one build. That isnt accounting for a main hand weapon, or any traits or trait lines other than Scourge.

 

 

[Lexan.5930]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > 2 fears, 1 from shroud, 1 from staff 5. Sure we have the wall but it only fears if you walk into it, not if its cast at your location. 1 knockdown which is very very tellegraphed on a .75 cast time (@musu9205 we have more cast times, and longer than you do), a pull on a 50 second CD, barrier is again meh, we get less burst barrier than we get health from reaper shroud, mesmer has condi bombing and boon corruption on point, just go staff. aoe death around yourself and other locations is literally the complaint about shatters

> >

> > mesmer has more options than necro clear and simple. more movement, disengage, burst combo, more conditions, more interupts, shorter cooldowns

>

> I think you will find, you can take all the 3 fears (staff, Utility, Scourge F skill) You can also take the pull (Utility) and the Knockdown (Torch) The Barrier from Heal or F skills. So yes. You can take ALL of what i said in a single build. Weapons: Staff + X/Torch with Sand Flare, Spectral Grasp, Spectral Wall, Summon Flesh Wurm and Ghastly Breach. Boom. Everything i mentioned in one build. That isnt accounting for a main hand weapon, or any traits or trait lines other than Scourge.

>

>

 

so again, skills on very long cd's and situational, 1 stun break that can be killed and still needs a pre cast. the "benifits" of taking said skills in a build would require not only extreme team support while skills are on CD, but also there are better skills to take that sill dont have the uptime or benifits of mesmer utility skills.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > > hey if i could INSANTLY cast 2 stuns and interupts at will and BLINK away or go INVULNERABLE for a few seconds on top of the built in evades and 2 dodge rolls and skills on 15 second CD's and all the other mobility, then i might be inclined to agree that mesmer burst and necro :cough: burst :cough: are on the same level, but i can;t do 20k in 2 seconds.. Takes like 10 at the least

> > >

> > > :p

> >

> > You have access to 3 fears (1 which is unblockable...) as well as knockdowns and pulls, 2 teleports, Barriers, Condi bombing as well as constant condi application, Boon corruption, AoE of death around yourself and other areas.

>

> we can't take them all at once, and they have longer cooldowns than most mesmer skills, or they are useless in pvp because they are too situational or flat out avoidable

>

> 2 fears, 1 from shroud, 1 from staff 5. Sure we have the wall but it only fears if you walk into it, not if its cast at your location. 1 knockdown which is very very tellegraphed on a .75 cast time (@musu9205 we have more cast times, and longer than you do), a pull on a 50 second CD, barrier is again meh, we get less burst barrier than we get health from reaper shroud, mesmer has condi bombing and boon corruption on point, just go staff. aoe death around yourself and other locations is literally the complaint about shatters

>

> mesmer has more options than necro clear and simple. more movement, disengage, burst combo, more conditions, more interupts, shorter cooldowns

 

Mesmer has 0 boon corrupt and minimal cleave. Staff has one 'dangerous' ability and it's a giant fairly slow purple orb.

[Lexan.5930]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > > > hey if i could INSANTLY cast 2 stuns and interupts at will and BLINK away or go INVULNERABLE for a few seconds on top of the built in evades and 2 dodge rolls and skills on 15 second CD's and all the other mobility, then i might be inclined to agree that mesmer burst and necro :cough: burst :cough: are on the same level, but i can;t do 20k in 2 seconds.. Takes like 10 at the least

> > > >

> > > > :p

> > >

> > > You have access to 3 fears (1 which is unblockable...) as well as knockdowns and pulls, 2 teleports, Barriers, Condi bombing as well as constant condi application, Boon corruption, AoE of death around yourself and other areas.

> >

> > we can't take them all at once, and they have longer cooldowns than most mesmer skills, or they are useless in pvp because they are too situational or flat out avoidable

> >

> > 2 fears, 1 from shroud, 1 from staff 5. Sure we have the wall but it only fears if you walk into it, not if its cast at your location. 1 knockdown which is very very tellegraphed on a .75 cast time (@musu9205 we have more cast times, and longer than you do), a pull on a 50 second CD, barrier is again meh, we get less burst barrier than we get health from reaper shroud, mesmer has condi bombing and boon corruption on point, just go staff. aoe death around yourself and other locations is literally the complaint about shatters

> >

> > mesmer has more options than necro clear and simple. more movement, disengage, burst combo, more conditions, more interupts, shorter cooldowns

>

> Mesmer has 0 boon corrupt and minimal cleave. Staff has one 'dangerous' ability and it's a giant fairly slow purple orb.

 

Null Field - Create a field of energy that rips boons from foes and cures conditions on allies.

sword skills all have cleave, every greatswod skill has cleave, phantasm zerker hits 5 people 4 times and every shatter skill has aoe. you have as much if not more cleave than any necro does.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

That's not boon corrupt and you can move out of it very easily.

 

GS 1 has line cleave, the most useless cleave. GS 2 has bounce, the second most useless 'cleave', GS 3 is AoE, not technically cleave with a very visible tell, zerker has an obvious (interruptable) tell and an easier to dodge animation. GS 5 has cleave sure, but it's actual damage is negligible. Every shatter skill has AoE, and every shatter skill can be killed before it reaches you. Sword 1 does meh damage, sword 2 roots you, it's as easy as not standing in it, sword 3 doesn't have cleave, sword 4 doesn't have cleave, sword 5 has cleave after about 3 seconds during which you can just take 2 steps away from it since it's also rooted during the cleave part.

 

Stooooppp playing the victim, you're a scourge.

 

Edit: I should probably also mention that none of the above have condi bomb either. The only thing that has condi bomb is single target, fairly unreliable single target too.

[Zintrothen.1056]

I love it! It's funny because it'll do nothing.

[Jojo.6590]

Really hope this thread is a troll thread, if not then excuse me as I try to find hope in humanity somewhere else. I can't seem to fathom why there is so much hate/ nerf crying against Mesmer when even before the confusion (nerf) and phantasms (buff) changes Mesmer was and still is no where near as broken/ OP as other classes and their respective elite specs. This thread mad me laugh just as hard as another post I came across stating how clones are a broken mechanic, that they should be transparent so that people can tell the difference between the Mesmer and it's illusions. That"s the same as someone saying Death Shroud is unfair in that it gives Necros an extra health bar and there fore should be removed. I hope you can see where I'm getting at here. As people already stated it's very easy to notice/ "tell" when a Mesmer is going to shatter their clones. I doubt I need to correct anything else as well, seeing how a bunch of people already have.

 

The issue we face now is that Anet went and nerfed confusion based solely on the complaints on the forums, not taking into account that maybe these people are refusing to run condition cleanses, and most likely completed next to no actual testing to confirm the complaints on the forums. All this will do is promote people to continue complaining on the forums until they get what they want or until Anet just states "no, not going to happen." The only way to deal with this is that the people that acutely play the class, and other's that agree and/ or know better need to "fight back" as we're currently doing now on this thread, correcting incorrect information.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > > @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > > > > hey if i could INSANTLY cast 2 stuns and interupts at will and BLINK away or go INVULNERABLE for a few seconds on top of the built in evades and 2 dodge rolls and skills on 15 second CD's and all the other mobility, then i might be inclined to agree that mesmer burst and necro :cough: burst :cough: are on the same level, but i can;t do 20k in 2 seconds.. Takes like 10 at the least

> > > > >

> > > > > :p

> > > >

> > > > You have access to 3 fears (1 which is unblockable...) as well as knockdowns and pulls, 2 teleports, Barriers, Condi bombing as well as constant condi application, Boon corruption, AoE of death around yourself and other areas.

> > >

> > > we can't take them all at once, and they have longer cooldowns than most mesmer skills, or they are useless in pvp because they are too situational or flat out avoidable

> > >

> > > 2 fears, 1 from shroud, 1 from staff 5. Sure we have the wall but it only fears if you walk into it, not if its cast at your location. 1 knockdown which is very very tellegraphed on a .75 cast time (@musu9205 we have more cast times, and longer than you do), a pull on a 50 second CD, barrier is again meh, we get less burst barrier than we get health from reaper shroud, mesmer has condi bombing and boon corruption on point, just go staff. aoe death around yourself and other locations is literally the complaint about shatters

> > >

> > > mesmer has more options than necro clear and simple. more movement, disengage, burst combo, more conditions, more interupts, shorter cooldowns

> >

> > Mesmer has 0 boon corrupt and minimal cleave. Staff has one 'dangerous' ability and it's a giant fairly slow purple orb.

>

> Null Field - Create a field of energy that rips boons from foes and cures conditions on allies.

> sword skills all have cleave, every greatswod skill has cleave, phantasm zerker hits 5 people 4 times and every shatter skill has aoe. you have as much if not more cleave than any necro does.

 

Funny. I don't recall boon rip being boon conversion.

[Lexan.5930]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> That's not boon corrupt and you can move out of it very easily.

>

> GS 1 has line cleave, the most useless cleave. GS 2 has bounce, the second most useless 'cleave', GS 3 is AoE, not technically cleave with a very visible tell, zerker has an obvious (interruptable) tell and an easier to dodge animation. GS 5 has cleave sure, but it's actual damage is negligible. Every shatter skill has AoE, and every shatter skill can be killed before it reaches you. Sword 1 does meh damage, sword 2 roots you, it's as easy as not standing in it, sword 3 doesn't have cleave, sword 4 doesn't have cleave, sword 5 has cleave after about 3 seconds during which you can just take 2 steps away from it since it's also rooted during the cleave part.

>

> Stooooppp playing the victim, you're a scourge.

>

> Edit: I should probably also mention that none of the above have condi bomb either. The only thing that has condi bomb is single target, fairly unreliable single target too.

 

inferring that an aoe is insignificant because you can easily move out of it applies to all shade skills as they are an easy to see aoe component that you can easily move out of.

I agree, line cleave is useless, it's what necro's get on staff 1 but it's not a beam and usually hits the ground or empty air behind the target. AOE is cleave because it hits multiple targets, which is what cleave is.

Condi mesmer may not be as powerful as it was in pvp because you can't burst people down as fast as you used to, but condi's can be cleansed where as power damage can only be blocked or invulnerable, and necro only gets block when it converts burn to block, and even then it's only 2 seconds.

 

mesmer can still distort becoming immune from condi's and physical damage which is a much strong ability than any shroud or barrier, mostly because you cannot be cc'd while distorting, a perfect example is the distort stomp.

 

the main problem i have with shatter is the ability to do over 20k damage in an instant with little to no counter play, especially if the memser is invisible. Necro damage takes time to hit and is highly telegraphed and is stationary therefore much easier to get away from, as most classes do. They walk away, wait for the skills to end then come in with their burst. Unfortunately necro's burst takes longer to build up to, longer to execute and if it doesn't hit there are little movement or defensive options to fall back on.

 

with mesmer movement options on weapon and utility skills, avoiding the condi from a necro and bursting down in between cool-downs is too easy for you.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Lexan.5930" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > That's not boon corrupt and you can move out of it very easily.

> >

> > GS 1 has line cleave, the most useless cleave. GS 2 has bounce, the second most useless 'cleave', GS 3 is AoE, not technically cleave with a very visible tell, zerker has an obvious (interruptable) tell and an easier to dodge animation. GS 5 has cleave sure, but it's actual damage is negligible. Every shatter skill has AoE, and every shatter skill can be killed before it reaches you. Sword 1 does meh damage, sword 2 roots you, it's as easy as not standing in it, sword 3 doesn't have cleave, sword 4 doesn't have cleave, sword 5 has cleave after about 3 seconds during which you can just take 2 steps away from it since it's also rooted during the cleave part.

> >

> > Stooooppp playing the victim, you're a scourge.

> >

> > Edit: I should probably also mention that none of the above have condi bomb either. The only thing that has condi bomb is single target, fairly unreliable single target too.

>

> inferring that an aoe is insignificant because you can easily move out of it applies to all shade skills as they are an easy to see aoe component that you can easily move out of.

> I agree, line cleave is useless, it's what necro's get on staff 1 but it's not a beam and usually hits the ground or empty air behind the target. AOE is cleave because it hits multiple targets, which is what cleave is.

> Condi mesmer may not be as powerful as it was in pvp because you can't burst people down as fast as you used to, but condi's can be cleansed where as power damage can only be blocked or invulnerable, and necro only gets block when it converts burn to block, and even then it's only 2 seconds.

>

> mesmer can still distort becoming immune from condi's and physical damage which is a much strong ability than any shroud or barrier, mostly because you cannot be cc'd while distorting, a perfect example is the distort stomp.

>

> the main problem i have with shatter is the ability to do over 20k damage in an instant with little to no counter play, especially if the memser is invisible. Necro damage takes time to hit and is highly telegraphed and is stationary therefore much easier to get away from, as most classes do. They walk away, wait for the skills to end then come in with their burst. Unfortunately necro's burst takes longer to build up to, longer to execute and if it doesn't hit there are little movement or defensive options to fall back on.

>

> with mesmer movement options on weapon and utility skills, avoiding the condi from a necro and bursting down in between cool-downs is too easy for you.

 

Then you just made a duplicate thread for the moron that made "GS shatter burst is a little too long" If you didn't read it, here are the main points, if you see a GS mesmer go stealth, count to 2 and dodge, congratulations the entire burst is gone. They can't attempt that combo for at least 40 more seconds.

 

Additionally, if you don't see the stealth you will almost certainly see the lazily listing greatsword twirling through the air. Unless you have 0 situational awareness.

 

[Levetty.1279]

I swear to God if all this PvP whine results in Power Mesmer getting the confusion treatment in PvE, I'm going to be very sad. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[martin.1653]

As if facebook wasn't full enough of oppressed people... Necros seem like modern-day feminists: "Stop existing, you're oppressing me!"

 

Comparing classes skill for skill is kinda pointless as each class plays differently due to different weapons and other sets of skills available. Necros are tanky and slow, you knew that when you picked necromancer so you have to deal with faster classes. Sometimes there's counter to your class and there's nothing to be done. It' good there are counters because it makes the game more dynamic and it makes you think before mindlessly entering every single encounter, covering screen with your tuff and expecting everything to die in a second.

If it were me, I'd delete scourges out of the game due to the visual noise they put out on my screen every time I see one, and make whole areas off limit to walk on. But I deal with it and I don't go to necro forum to cry about it.

Maybe OP should go to thief forum as well and open a thread there regarding the deadeyes oppression. I eat necros on my deadeye before they can even reach 1200 range. Or maybe open another thread in ranger forum, they have 2000+ range and meat shield in front of them. Impossible to even reach!