muralsparky.1078 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 So i am fairly new to PvP or SPvP (structured PvP) and i have only played 2 seasons but i have noticed a huge downfall in the way that rank points are earned and lost. I fully understand that the game mode is about holding, contesting and completing objective points but when it comes down to it is easier said than done. Lately i have been from plat to gold and back, some of the time it was my fault but mostly i get paired up with players that do not do there part as a team member. The main problem i have is that if a team loses each member is penalized equally even though it was not their fault. There has been many times where i have pulled all the tricks out to get the win but end up losing and in the end match screen i have earned nearly all the top stats but i do not get rewarded for the effort that i put in and it makes me feel like i might as well just give up in the game mode i have come love and enjoy. The idea that i had was that on the losing team each top stat rewarded to players would reward the players with some bonus rank points so that the loss does discourage the player from trying next time they play, each would only be worth 1 or 2 rank points (none of which would go to the wining team). This would result in players on the losing team to attempt to play harder for the extra points or even turn the tide for the win. It would also balance the ranking system by dropping the rank of players that do not try or understand the role of their class. I don't feel as if the effort the losing team puts in is being rewarded and it should be. If losing reward system is put in i feel the SPvP game mode would become more competitive and we would see a larger amount of great ranked battles where the losing team is only losing by a few cap or kill points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeLZedaR.4790 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 As soon as you make anything other than the win relevant for rating people will play for that instead of the win. People just need to learn to not be whining losers and that the game is not lost after the first fight or the first 5 minutes even. My best comeback was after 450 points behind on legacy. An l2p issue or rather mentality issue of players and not a flaw of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralsparky.1078 Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said: > As soon as you make anything other than the win relevant for rating people will play for that instead of the win. > People just need to learn to not be whining losers and that the game is not lost after the first fight or the first 5 minutes even. My best comeback was after 450 points behind on legacy. > An l2p issue or rather mentality issue of players and not a flaw of the system. I did not say it was a flaw nor would Points be gained for a loss. Say you lose 10 - 15 rank points on a loss but you have top defense and offense you would gain 1 or 2 points depending on what is chosen you would still lose rank but at a less harmful rate. Take -15 for example and you get 2 top stats gaining 2 point for each, you are now losing -11 rank instead of the -15, making your place in ranked earned not freely given buy others carrying you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeLZedaR.4790 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said: > > As soon as you make anything other than the win relevant for rating people will play for that instead of the win. > > People just need to learn to not be whining losers and that the game is not lost after the first fight or the first 5 minutes even. My best comeback was after 450 points behind on legacy. > > An l2p issue or rather mentality issue of players and not a flaw of the system. > > I did not say it was a flaw nor would Points be gained for a loss. Say you lose 10 - 15 rank points on a loss but you have top defense and offense you would gain 1 or 2 points depending on what is chosen you would still lose rank but at a less harmful rate. Take -15 for example and you get 2 top stats gaining 2 point for each, you are now losing -11 rank instead of the -15, making your place in ranked earned not freely given buy other carrying you I realized what you meant and my point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Why one is on the way of another? Playing for objectives IS winning, isn't it? I mean, there are stuff like "most kills" but it can give -1 loosing point for example and if you get -3 points for offense or defence, focusing on kills will not be worth it. And if this idea will be implemented, perhaps it is smart to adjust the stuff that you get those "top stats" for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralsparky.1078 Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > Why one is on the way of another? Playing for objectives IS winning, isn't it? I mean, there are stuff like "most kills" but it can give -1 loosing point for example and if you get -3 points for offense or defence, focusing on kills will not be worth it. And if this idea will be implemented, perhaps it is smart to adjust the stuff that you get those "top stats" for. That would definitely be the case. I like the idea of different points given for different top stats the game mode isn't about most kills or highest damage as people could farm for these stats. It is about playing as a team and focusing on objectives whether that be defensively or offensively. I'm not suggesting a complete overhaul of the way obtaining rank works, more towards stabilizing the rank ladder so that the good players that work towards victory in the face of defeat don't get penalized the same way as a player that gets out classed and sits in spawn till the game ends dragging each member of the team down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > Why one is on the way of another? Playing for objectives IS winning, isn't it? I mean, there are stuff like "most kills" but it can give -1 loosing point for example and if you get -3 points for offense or defence, focusing on kills will not be worth it. And if this idea will be implemented, perhaps it is smart to adjust the stuff that you get those "top stats" for. > > That would definitely be the case. I like the idea of different points given for different top stats the game mode isn't about most kills or highest damage as people could farm for these stats. It is about playing as a team and focusing on objectives whether that be defensively or offensively. > > I'm not suggesting a complete overhaul of the way obtaining rank works, more towards stabilizing the rank ladder so that the good players that work towards victory in the face of defeat don't get penalized the same way as a player that gets out classed and sits in spawn till the game ends dragging each member of the team down. Yes! And since you will still loose points for loosing the match, it should actually prevent people from abusing this system (I'm naive, I know. But one can dream) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralsparky.1078 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 @"Gaile Gray.6029" Can Some of us Try hards get some form of love? @"Chilli.2976" would this solve the undeserved De-rankings ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itz Jay.8941 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > So i am fairly new to PvP or SPvP (structured PvP) and i have only played 2 seasons but i have noticed a huge downfall in the way that rank points are earned and lost. > > I fully understand that the game mode is about holding, contesting and completing objective points but when it comes down to it is easier said than done. > Lately i have been from plat to gold and back, some of the time it was my fault but mostly i get paired up with players that do not do there part as a team member. > The main problem i have is that if a team loses each member is penalized equally even though it was not their fault. There has been many times where i have pulled all the tricks out to get the win but end up losing and in the end match screen i have earned nearly all the top stats but i do not get rewarded for the effort that i put in and it makes me feel like i might as well just give up in the game mode i have come love and enjoy. > > The idea that i had was that on the losing team each top stat rewarded to players would reward the players with some bonus rank points so that the loss does discourage the player from trying next time they play, each would only be worth 1 or 2 rank points (none of which would go to the wining team). This would result in players on the losing team to attempt to play harder for the extra points or even turn the tide for the win. It would also balance the ranking system by dropping the rank of players that do not try or understand the role of their class. > > I don't feel as if the effort the losing team puts in is being rewarded and it should be. If losing reward system is put in i feel the SPvP game mode would become more competitive and we would see a larger amount of great ranked battles where the losing team is only losing by a few cap or kill points. There's a few problems with this, I'll give a couple scenarios. Your team members can keep pushing into a 3v1 or a 3v2 on close the entire game, this is making the rest of the team outnumbered and more often that not unable to succeed in their fights, do any damage or get any sort of statistics. So you're left with a lost game but the players who kept outnumbering close get all the top stats because they were winning that particular fight, which actually lost the game. That is over-commiting. You can also over-commit by staying on the team fight when it is clearly won, there are 1 dead, 2 downed bodies, 1 almost dead, yet 4 of you are still beating up dead bodies where 2 or more of you could've quickly rotated to far to create more momentum and checked close for a defend. Yet that one player that always moves fast when the fights are won, doesn't get those extra stats for beating up the dead bodies. Then you can have another player who see's the mid fight is lost and pushes far, that player ends up in a 1v2 situation, but, he manages to keep the two players on that point with excellent skill and map rotations, use of LoS and map jumping e.t.c. The player see's the advantage and manages to do it for most of the game while the other two nodes are recovered and the game is now in favour. Well often that player won't get the top stats, because he hasn't killed, or got the caps or defended, he simply juked two enemies to create an advantage for the rest of the team in an otherwise sometimes lost game. This is called the 1v2 juke (?lol) Situations like this prove that getting any reward for top stats is infact, unfair. If we take this into account, you shouldn't get any bonus for top stats. However the ranking system gives the benefit of the doubt by giving some extra points to players with lot's of top stats because sometimes they do count for something, but, I would say on average it's 50/50 as to whether a player's top stats actually count for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralsparky.1078 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > So i am fairly new to PvP or SPvP (structured PvP) and i have only played 2 seasons but i have noticed a huge downfall in the way that rank points are earned and lost. > > > > I fully understand that the game mode is about holding, contesting and completing objective points but when it comes down to it is easier said than done. > > Lately i have been from plat to gold and back, some of the time it was my fault but mostly i get paired up with players that do not do there part as a team member. > > The main problem i have is that if a team loses each member is penalized equally even though it was not their fault. There has been many times where i have pulled all the tricks out to get the win but end up losing and in the end match screen i have earned nearly all the top stats but i do not get rewarded for the effort that i put in and it makes me feel like i might as well just give up in the game mode i have come love and enjoy. > > > > The idea that i had was that on the losing team each top stat rewarded to players would reward the players with some bonus rank points so that the loss does discourage the player from trying next time they play, each would only be worth 1 or 2 rank points (none of which would go to the wining team). This would result in players on the losing team to attempt to play harder for the extra points or even turn the tide for the win. It would also balance the ranking system by dropping the rank of players that do not try or understand the role of their class. > > > > I don't feel as if the effort the losing team puts in is being rewarded and it should be. If losing reward system is put in i feel the SPvP game mode would become more competitive and we would see a larger amount of great ranked battles where the losing team is only losing by a few cap or kill points. > > There's a few problems with this, I'll give a couple scenarios. > > Your team members can keep pushing into a 3v1 or a 3v2 on close the entire game, this is making the rest of the team outnumbered and more often that not unable to succeed in their fights, do any damage or get any sort of statistics. So you're left with a lost game but the players who kept outnumbering close get all the top stats because they were winning that particular fight, which actually lost the game. That is over-commiting. You can also over-commit by staying on the team fight when it is clearly won, there are 1 dead, 2 downed bodies, 1 almost dead, yet 4 of you are still beating up dead bodies where 2 or more of you could've quickly rotated to far to create more momentum and checked close for a defend. Yet that one player that always moves fast when the fights are won, doesn't get those extra stats for beating up the dead bodies. > > Then you can have another player who see's the mid fight is lost and pushes far, that player ends up in a 1v2 situation, but, he manages to keep the two players on that point with excellent skill and map rotations, use of LoS and map jumping e.t.c. The player see's the advantage and manages to do it for most of the game while the other two nodes are recovered and the game is now in favour. Well often that player won't get the top stats, because he hasn't killed, or got the caps or defended, he simply juked two enemies to create an advantage for the rest of the team in an otherwise sometimes lost game. This is called the 1v2 juke (?lol) > > Situations like this prove that getting any reward for top stats is infact, unfair. If we take this into account, you shouldn't get any bonus for top stats. However the ranking system gives the benefit of the doubt by giving some extra points to players with lot's of top stats because sometimes they do count for something, but, I would say on average it's 50/50 as to whether a player's top stats actually count for anything. As someone who does all the things you are talking about and still manage to get top stats in offense, defense, kills, healing, revives or damage in a loss but i don't get rewarded ? that just seems broken. What I'm saying is players enter queue expecting to just fight and have no interest in rotating, decapping or even contesting so they pick a damage class that has their fancy and only fight and the moment they feel like the game isn't going their way the start trash talk and don't bother to focus objectives. I had a game last night that brought be back into platinum the end score was 498-505 it was a good game because each person understood their roll in the team. We were down on points till the end when we took the win. I was playing my support Scourge and in the beginning of the game i was told to stay at mid by my team and i did so because i had full confidence in my team... But the enemy team played outright better and my team began to get salty at our Ranger and Mesmer for not rotating so i took it upon myself to give up on holding mid and start rotating between mid and home only stopping to pick up downs. If we lost i would have lost 14pts But i had top damage, kills, healing, revives and defense, But i would still lose the same amount of points? The current way the MM looks to put together teams doesn't work very well when you go above 3+mins so why not have a fall back even if you have to change the way top stats are given and rewarded in a loss such as. 1)offense/defense (+3rank points to a loss) 2)revives/healing (+2rank points to a loss) 3)damage/kills (+1rank point to a loss) NOTE:NO extra points would be given to the winning team, ONLY the loosing team gain these points. Even a simple system would make the game more understandable and would reward teams/players who work together and play more objectively other than punishing a loosing team when a single player feels like calling it quits half way through the match because the enemy team is ahead by 100 points and he/she feels like they weren't carried or placed with a team that was equal in skill or mind set towards the game that is at hand. The points rewarded for top stats will never give a loosing player positive rank points it would merely level his place in the rank that he/she deserves. I could see if this is confusing to some but it is quite easy to understand if you look at the game more objective based as you want players to focus more on fighting on points rather than having a skirmish off in the bushes where a mere 5pts per kill is earned and is no help to the team when the enemy is holding all the points and because of that players actions the whole team losses equal rank points when it wasn't their fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itz Jay.8941 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > > So i am fairly new to PvP or SPvP (structured PvP) and i have only played 2 seasons but i have noticed a huge downfall in the way that rank points are earned and lost. > > > > > > I fully understand that the game mode is about holding, contesting and completing objective points but when it comes down to it is easier said than done. > > > Lately i have been from plat to gold and back, some of the time it was my fault but mostly i get paired up with players that do not do there part as a team member. > > > The main problem i have is that if a team loses each member is penalized equally even though it was not their fault. There has been many times where i have pulled all the tricks out to get the win but end up losing and in the end match screen i have earned nearly all the top stats but i do not get rewarded for the effort that i put in and it makes me feel like i might as well just give up in the game mode i have come love and enjoy. > > > > > > The idea that i had was that on the losing team each top stat rewarded to players would reward the players with some bonus rank points so that the loss does discourage the player from trying next time they play, each would only be worth 1 or 2 rank points (none of which would go to the wining team). This would result in players on the losing team to attempt to play harder for the extra points or even turn the tide for the win. It would also balance the ranking system by dropping the rank of players that do not try or understand the role of their class. > > > > > > I don't feel as if the effort the losing team puts in is being rewarded and it should be. If losing reward system is put in i feel the SPvP game mode would become more competitive and we would see a larger amount of great ranked battles where the losing team is only losing by a few cap or kill points. > > > > There's a few problems with this, I'll give a couple scenarios. > > > > Your team members can keep pushing into a 3v1 or a 3v2 on close the entire game, this is making the rest of the team outnumbered and more often that not unable to succeed in their fights, do any damage or get any sort of statistics. So you're left with a lost game but the players who kept outnumbering close get all the top stats because they were winning that particular fight, which actually lost the game. That is over-commiting. You can also over-commit by staying on the team fight when it is clearly won, there are 1 dead, 2 downed bodies, 1 almost dead, yet 4 of you are still beating up dead bodies where 2 or more of you could've quickly rotated to far to create more momentum and checked close for a defend. Yet that one player that always moves fast when the fights are won, doesn't get those extra stats for beating up the dead bodies. > > > > Then you can have another player who see's the mid fight is lost and pushes far, that player ends up in a 1v2 situation, but, he manages to keep the two players on that point with excellent skill and map rotations, use of LoS and map jumping e.t.c. The player see's the advantage and manages to do it for most of the game while the other two nodes are recovered and the game is now in favour. Well often that player won't get the top stats, because he hasn't killed, or got the caps or defended, he simply juked two enemies to create an advantage for the rest of the team in an otherwise sometimes lost game. This is called the 1v2 juke (?lol) > > > > Situations like this prove that getting any reward for top stats is infact, unfair. If we take this into account, you shouldn't get any bonus for top stats. However the ranking system gives the benefit of the doubt by giving some extra points to players with lot's of top stats because sometimes they do count for something, but, I would say on average it's 50/50 as to whether a player's top stats actually count for anything. > > As someone who does all the things you are talking about and still manage to get top stats in offense, defense, kills, healing, revives or damage in a loss but i don't get rewarded ? that just seems broken. > > What I'm saying is players enter queue expecting to just fight and have no interest in rotating, decapping or even contesting so they pick a damage class that has their fancy and only fight and the moment they feel like the game isn't going their way the start trash talk and don't bother to focus objectives. > > I had a game last night that brought be back into platinum the end score was 498-505 it was a good game because each person understood their roll in the team. We were down on points till the end when we took the win. I was playing my support Scourge and in the beginning of the game i was told to stay at mid by my team and i did so because i had full confidence in my team... But the enemy team played outright better and my team began to get salty at our Ranger and Mesmer for not rotating so i took it upon myself to give up on holding mid and start rotating between mid and home only stopping to pick up downs. If we lost i would have lost 14pts But i had top damage, kills, healing, revives and defense, But i would still lose the same amount of points? > > The current way the MM looks to put together teams doesn't work very well when you go above 3+mins so why not have a fall back even if you have to change the way top stats are given and rewarded in a loss such as. > 1)offense/defense (+3rank points to a loss) > 2)revives/healing (+2rank points to a loss) > 3)damage/kills (+1rank point to a loss) > > NOTE:NO extra points would be given to the winning team, ONLY the loosing team gain these points. > > Even a simple system would make the game more understandable and would reward teams/players who work together and play more objectively other than punishing a loosing team when a single player feels like calling it quits half way through the match because the enemy team is ahead by 100 points and he/she feels like they weren't carried or placed with a team that was equal in skill or mind set towards the game that is at hand. > > The points rewarded for top stats will never give a loosing player positive rank points it would merely level his place in the rank that he/she deserves. I could see if this is confusing to some but it is quite easy to understand if you look at the game more objective based as you want players to focus more on fighting on points rather than having a skirmish off in the bushes where a mere 5pts per kill is earned and is no help to the team when the enemy is holding all the points and because of that players actions the whole team losses equal rank points when it wasn't their fault. Based on your answer, you clearly you didn't even read what I said. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralsparky.1078 Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > > > So i am fairly new to PvP or SPvP (structured PvP) and i have only played 2 seasons but i have noticed a huge downfall in the way that rank points are earned and lost. > > > > > > > > I fully understand that the game mode is about holding, contesting and completing objective points but when it comes down to it is easier said than done. > > > > Lately i have been from plat to gold and back, some of the time it was my fault but mostly i get paired up with players that do not do there part as a team member. > > > > The main problem i have is that if a team loses each member is penalized equally even though it was not their fault. There has been many times where i have pulled all the tricks out to get the win but end up losing and in the end match screen i have earned nearly all the top stats but i do not get rewarded for the effort that i put in and it makes me feel like i might as well just give up in the game mode i have come love and enjoy. > > > > > > > > The idea that i had was that on the losing team each top stat rewarded to players would reward the players with some bonus rank points so that the loss does discourage the player from trying next time they play, each would only be worth 1 or 2 rank points (none of which would go to the wining team). This would result in players on the losing team to attempt to play harder for the extra points or even turn the tide for the win. It would also balance the ranking system by dropping the rank of players that do not try or understand the role of their class. > > > > > > > > I don't feel as if the effort the losing team puts in is being rewarded and it should be. If losing reward system is put in i feel the SPvP game mode would become more competitive and we would see a larger amount of great ranked battles where the losing team is only losing by a few cap or kill points. > > > > > > There's a few problems with this, I'll give a couple scenarios. > > > > > > Your team members can keep pushing into a 3v1 or a 3v2 on close the entire game, this is making the rest of the team outnumbered and more often that not unable to succeed in their fights, do any damage or get any sort of statistics. So you're left with a lost game but the players who kept outnumbering close get all the top stats because they were winning that particular fight, which actually lost the game. That is over-commiting. You can also over-commit by staying on the team fight when it is clearly won, there are 1 dead, 2 downed bodies, 1 almost dead, yet 4 of you are still beating up dead bodies where 2 or more of you could've quickly rotated to far to create more momentum and checked close for a defend. Yet that one player that always moves fast when the fights are won, doesn't get those extra stats for beating up the dead bodies. > > > > > > Then you can have another player who see's the mid fight is lost and pushes far, that player ends up in a 1v2 situation, but, he manages to keep the two players on that point with excellent skill and map rotations, use of LoS and map jumping e.t.c. The player see's the advantage and manages to do it for most of the game while the other two nodes are recovered and the game is now in favour. Well often that player won't get the top stats, because he hasn't killed, or got the caps or defended, he simply juked two enemies to create an advantage for the rest of the team in an otherwise sometimes lost game. This is called the 1v2 juke (?lol) > > > > > > Situations like this prove that getting any reward for top stats is infact, unfair. If we take this into account, you shouldn't get any bonus for top stats. However the ranking system gives the benefit of the doubt by giving some extra points to players with lot's of top stats because sometimes they do count for something, but, I would say on average it's 50/50 as to whether a player's top stats actually count for anything. > > > > As someone who does all the things you are talking about and still manage to get top stats in offense, defense, kills, healing, revives or damage in a loss but i don't get rewarded ? that just seems broken. > > > > What I'm saying is players enter queue expecting to just fight and have no interest in rotating, decapping or even contesting so they pick a damage class that has their fancy and only fight and the moment they feel like the game isn't going their way the start trash talk and don't bother to focus objectives. > > > > I had a game last night that brought be back into platinum the end score was 498-505 it was a good game because each person understood their roll in the team. We were down on points till the end when we took the win. I was playing my support Scourge and in the beginning of the game i was told to stay at mid by my team and i did so because i had full confidence in my team... But the enemy team played outright better and my team began to get salty at our Ranger and Mesmer for not rotating so i took it upon myself to give up on holding mid and start rotating between mid and home only stopping to pick up downs. If we lost i would have lost 14pts But i had top damage, kills, healing, revives and defense, But i would still lose the same amount of points? > > > > The current way the MM looks to put together teams doesn't work very well when you go above 3+mins so why not have a fall back even if you have to change the way top stats are given and rewarded in a loss such as. > > 1)offense/defense (+3rank points to a loss) > > 2)revives/healing (+2rank points to a loss) > > 3)damage/kills (+1rank point to a loss) > > > > NOTE:NO extra points would be given to the winning team, ONLY the loosing team gain these points. > > > > Even a simple system would make the game more understandable and would reward teams/players who work together and play more objectively other than punishing a loosing team when a single player feels like calling it quits half way through the match because the enemy team is ahead by 100 points and he/she feels like they weren't carried or placed with a team that was equal in skill or mind set towards the game that is at hand. > > > > The points rewarded for top stats will never give a loosing player positive rank points it would merely level his place in the rank that he/she deserves. I could see if this is confusing to some but it is quite easy to understand if you look at the game more objective based as you want players to focus more on fighting on points rather than having a skirmish off in the bushes where a mere 5pts per kill is earned and is no help to the team when the enemy is holding all the points and because of that players actions the whole team losses equal rank points when it wasn't their fault. > > Based on your answer, you clearly you didn't even read what I said. I'm out. I did read what you wrote but you see the point is that the top stat system would have to be reworked so that in the case of the 1v2 juke that player would be rewarded. The game mode itself it team based not solo based you may sit on far in a 1v2 scenario and your team still may loose because you were trying to help remove players from a fight but this has not gained you any points nor has your team benefited from your play. As an OBJECTIVE TEAM based game mode it is better to have all players focus targets such as the Damage or support on the enemy team to create pressure and or cause the enemy team to panic and cause mistakes in there game play and reset the snow ball effect that the enemy team has gained. Sure you may think that you are doing the right thing taking 2 players out of the fight but those 2 players had full faith in their team and that is why they rotated to deal with you, So you have just left your team with 3 of the enemy's that they have struggled to take down for the majority of the game to put pressure else where but by doing so you have take out your own fighting capability to play with what i'm guessing is a bunker and a roamer whilst your team struggles. "A team who works together wins together" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 If someone gets **all** the top stats, something may have been a little wonky with the match, but the stats are usually mostly meaningless. When someone starts bragging about their stats (or tearing other players down for their lack of stats), it’s pretty much a given that they have very little awareness of how the match was won or lost, otherwise they’d be talking about things that actually had an impact on the match. Let people play to win, not play for stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralsparky.1078 Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > Top stats are usually mostly meaningless. When someone starts bragging about their stats, it’s pretty much a given that they have very little awareness of how the match was won or lost, otherwise they’d be talking about things that actually had an impact on the match. > > Let people play to win, not play for stats. That makes sense beside the fact a)top defense and offense means you have very good map awareness and rotate accordingly. b)revives and healing means you are in the fights and supporting your team from being stomped or full downed for 10-15 seconds which removes their presence for 5pts each and makes you team have a disadvantage in the fight. c) kills and damage do not matter much so they should have reduced point rewards because they can easily be farmed just by cleaving or fighting a bunker on a point that does nothing to aid your team. I rarely get people in gold/platinum that brag about the top stats at all and that is the difference between the higher and lower ranks. Higher ranks talk about strategy and what is needed in the match. lower ranks blame each other and never talk about what they can do to turn the match or even win, This is probably where you get the idea of bragging about top stats and they mean nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > That makes sense beside the fact > > a)top defense and offense means you have very good map awareness and rotate accordingly. > > b)revives and healing means you are in the fights and supporting your team from being stomped or full downed for 10-15 seconds which removes their presence for 5pts each and makes you team have a disadvantage in the fight. > > c) kills and damage do not matter much so they should have reduced point rewards because they can easily be farmed just by cleaving or fighting a bunker on a point that does nothing to aid your team. Except those are not facts at all; they’re merely possibilities. You’re missing my (and Itz Jay’s) point that top stats are very misleading. They’re often not indicative of good play, just as good play often does not result in top stats. I’ll give just a couple (of many) examples of what’s wrong with emphasizing top stats. Like if I go 1v1 on an enemy’s node the whole game, lose a few 1v1s but keep going back for more. I’ll probably get top offense, yet my play is detrimental. Or let’s assume your proposed system is implemented, and I conclude after the first lost teamfight that the game is over and decide to cut my losses. So for the rest of the match, I just find a node with an enemy on it, halfheartedly whack on him a bit, and remain in that state for the rest of the game, intentionally throwing the match but most likely getting top offense. Under your system, I would be rewarded for throwing with reduced MMR loss. You mentioned yourself that you only have a little experience in ranked pvp, so I can understand your narrowmindedness. But once you understand how meaningless top stats are, you’ll see that your idea would be terrible for ranked play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralsparky.1078 Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > That makes sense beside the fact > > > > a)top defense and offense means you have very good map awareness and rotate accordingly. > > > > b)revives and healing means you are in the fights and supporting your team from being stomped or full downed for 10-15 seconds which removes their presence for 5pts each and makes you team have a disadvantage in the fight. > > > > c) kills and damage do not matter much so they should have reduced point rewards because they can easily be farmed just by cleaving or fighting a bunker on a point that does nothing to aid your team. > > Except those are not facts at all; they’re merely possibilities. You’re missing my (and Itz Jay’s) point that top stats are very misleading. They’re often not indicative of good play, just as good play often does not result in top stats. > > I’ll give just a couple (of many) examples of what’s wrong with emphasizing top stats. Like if I go 1v1 on an enemy’s node the whole game, lose a few 1v1s but keep going back for more. I’ll probably get top offense, yet my play is detrimental. > > Or let’s assume your proposed system is implemented, and I conclude after the first lost teamfight that the game is over and decide to cut my losses. So for the rest of the match, I just find a node with an enemy on it, halfheartedly whack on him a bit, and remain in that state for the rest of the game, intentionally throwing the match but most likely getting top offense. Under your system, I would be rewarded for throwing with reduced MMR loss. > > You mentioned yourself that you only have a little experience in ranked pvp, so I can understand your narrowmindedness. But once you understand how meaningless top stats are, you’ll see that your idea would be terrible for ranked play. So fighting for Home, mid and far is pointless in your your view you would rather 1v1 someone in a bush to gain 5 points.... I'm not "new" to PvP in any game but guild wars 2 version of PvP is not like the rest each objective has far more value than that of a kill. Lets say the enemy is holding your home and you know you can get the point neutral to buy your team time to win the fight on mid would you wouldn't reward that type of play ? What you are saying is that the fact that you can stop the enemy team from holding 2 cap points and slow the rate that they are getting a head is bad.. K Mate Enjoy silver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > @"muralsparky.1078" said: > > > That makes sense beside the fact > > > > > > a)top defense and offense means you have very good map awareness and rotate accordingly. > > > > > > b)revives and healing means you are in the fights and supporting your team from being stomped or full downed for 10-15 seconds which removes their presence for 5pts each and makes you team have a disadvantage in the fight. > > > > > > c) kills and damage do not matter much so they should have reduced point rewards because they can easily be farmed just by cleaving or fighting a bunker on a point that does nothing to aid your team. > > > > Except those are not facts at all; they’re merely possibilities. You’re missing my (and Itz Jay’s) point that top stats are very misleading. They’re often not indicative of good play, just as good play often does not result in top stats. > > > > I’ll give just a couple (of many) examples of what’s wrong with emphasizing top stats. Like if I go 1v1 on an enemy’s node the whole game, lose a few 1v1s but keep going back for more. I’ll probably get top offense, yet my play is detrimental. > > > > Or let’s assume your proposed system is implemented, and I conclude after the first lost teamfight that the game is over and decide to cut my losses. So for the rest of the match, I just find a node with an enemy on it, halfheartedly whack on him a bit, and remain in that state for the rest of the game, intentionally throwing the match but most likely getting top offense. Under your system, I would be rewarded for throwing with reduced MMR loss. > > > > You mentioned yourself that you only have a little experience in ranked pvp, so I can understand your narrowmindedness. But once you understand how meaningless top stats are, you’ll see that your idea would be terrible for ranked play. > > So fighting for Home, mid and far is pointless in your your view you would rather 1v1 someone in a bush to gain 5 points.... > > I'm not "new" to PvP in any game but guild wars 2 version of PvP is not like the rest each objective has far more value than that of a kill. Lets say the enemy is holding your home and you know you can get the point neutral to buy your team time to win the fight on mid would you wouldn't reward that type of play ? > > What you are saying is that the fact that you can stop the enemy team from holding 2 cap points and slow the rate that they are getting a head is bad.. K Mate Enjoy silver “Enjoy silver,” that’s adorable. ;) Why not bronze? You said in the OP that you’re new to pvp, so if you have a problem with that, take it up with yourself. Your “in the bush” comment is a straw man argument, and I have nothing else to say about that. You’ve been given multiple real and hypothetical examples of how flawed top stats often are and ways that a system like what you propose not only **could**, but **would** be abused. In fact, long ago top stats were rewarded a lot more with rank points (not mmr), and they changed it because of course it encouraged people to play for stats instead of wins, i.e. play like shit. It’s easy to think of scenarios where top stats may fairly accurately reflect contribution (as you have done). But it’s just as easy to think of scenarios where they don’t, which is the problem with your proposal. I mean look, I get top stats too, who doesn’t? From a purely selfish standpoint, I should be completely on board with you, but the problem is that it would degrade match quality to a new extreme, and I’m not cool with that, even with the promise of a little MMR boost. Not to mention that it would result in _everybody’s_ MMR being boosted, not just yours, so what’s the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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