Eramonster.2718 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"bladezero.9470" said: > What's up with this? > > Did something change? I used to have excellent pug groups every night, now they all fail... Could be returning players after a long break, newbies for T4, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood.5607 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"reikken.4961" said: > > @"Blood.5607" said: > > > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > > > Why no necros, we're dps too you know.... > > > > > > That was a good one. > > > > +1 to this. In fractals? No you aren't. Sorry. > > sadly. > necros condis are all like 20 seconds long. not so good for clearing adds > and power builds are all weak > > If dagger auto is going to keep the target limit of 2 that other class's daggers have, it needs the dps that the other classes have. And skill 2 or 3 needs to be replaced with something that's a dps increase over autoing. > also increase pve shade power damage by like 50%. and idk what for reaper, but more group pve buffs Power builds arent weak? O.o I play weaver in t4s and i pull way above-average dps with the right comp. EDIT: My bad for misunderstanding when you said all power builds as few other posters have now informed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haleydawn.3764 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Blood.5607" said: > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > @"Blood.5607" said: > > > > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > > > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > > > > Why no necros, we're dps too you know.... > > > > > > > > That was a good one. > > > > > > +1 to this. In fractals? No you aren't. Sorry. > > > > sadly. > > necros condis are all like 20 seconds long. not so good for clearing adds > > and power builds are all weak > > > > If dagger auto is going to keep the target limit of 2 that other class's daggers have, it needs the dps that the other classes have. And skill 2 or 3 needs to be replaced with something that's a dps increase over autoing. > > also increase pve shade power damage by like 50%. and idk what for reaper, but more group pve buffs > > Power builds arent weak? O.o I play weaver in t4s and i pull way above-average dps with the right comp. Pretty sure it was in the context for Power Necromancer specifically. But damage is relative, you can play weaver with the metabuild and still do less damage than a power Reaper. It depends on how each are being played. I was in a group just yesterday with an atrocious weaver and a just as bad Scourge both masquerading as DPS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eramonster.2718 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Blood.5607" said: > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > @"Blood.5607" said: > > > > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > > > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > > > > Why no necros, we're dps too you know.... > > > > > > > > That was a good one. > > > > > > +1 to this. In fractals? No you aren't. Sorry. > > > > sadly. > > necros condis are all like 20 seconds long. not so good for clearing adds > > and power builds are all weak > > > > If dagger auto is going to keep the target limit of 2 that other class's daggers have, it needs the dps that the other classes have. And skill 2 or 3 needs to be replaced with something that's a dps increase over autoing. > > also increase pve shade power damage by like 50%. and idk what for reaper, but more group pve buffs > > Power builds arent weak? O.o I play weaver in t4s and i pull way above-average dps with the right comp. I think what reikken.4961was referring to is necro's power build(reaper) in his context. Condi will show significant lower dmg on thrash mobs in a full burst setup group in fractals. Necro for instance will barely have time to stack up condi for epidermic (to add; almost all necro's skills & attacks have awfully long aftercast). The class is still viable, high survival and useful for some encounters but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnasis.6892 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I don't notice an issue with my condi reaper in any t4 fractal. Honestly people have this weird perception that necro is trash in fractals/pve/open world and yet I see on a regular basis groups finishing quickly with necros as dps. Strange huh? Honestly as long as you know how to actually play and have the right gear then it really shouldn't be an issue what to take, but to call necros not dps is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > I don't notice an issue with my condi reaper in any t4 fractal. Honestly people have this weird perception that necro is trash in fractals/pve/open world and yet I see on a regular basis groups finishing quickly with necros as dps. Strange huh? > > Honestly as long as you know how to actually play and have the right gear then it really shouldn't be an issue what to take, but to call necros not dps is wrong. Nah, you just have different perception of what's quick. Comparing with your average random-comp pug is one thing. Comparing with a meta comp with two good weavers is something else entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > I don't notice an issue with my condi reaper in any t4 fractal. Honestly people have this weird perception that necro is trash in fractals/pve/open world and yet I see on a regular basis groups finishing quickly with necros as dps. Strange huh? > > > > Honestly as long as you know how to actually play and have the right gear then it really shouldn't be an issue what to take, but to call necros not dps is wrong. > > Nah, you just have different perception of what's quick. Comparing with your average random-comp pug is one thing. Comparing with a meta comp with two good weavers is something else entirely. Yes, however if his goal is completing the content within reasonable time brackets playing his "safezone" profession, his satisfaction of the game is much better this way instead of following meta solutions. As we know, even raids do not require hitting dps benchmarks for completion, not mentioning fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > > I don't notice an issue with my condi reaper in any t4 fractal. Honestly people have this weird perception that necro is trash in fractals/pve/open world and yet I see on a regular basis groups finishing quickly with necros as dps. Strange huh? > > > > > > Honestly as long as you know how to actually play and have the right gear then it really shouldn't be an issue what to take, but to call necros not dps is wrong. > > > > Nah, you just have different perception of what's quick. Comparing with your average random-comp pug is one thing. Comparing with a meta comp with two good weavers is something else entirely. > > Yes, however if his goal is completing the content within reasonable time brackets playing his "safezone" profession, his satisfaction of the game is much better this way instead of following meta solutions. As we know, even raids do not require hitting dps benchmarks for completion, not mentioning fractals. It's still very staisfying to see what a good weaver can do to a health bar compared to all other classes. If you have two good ones in fractals, breaking defiance bars might become an issue because of cool downs for cc skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > > > I don't notice an issue with my condi reaper in any t4 fractal. Honestly people have this weird perception that necro is trash in fractals/pve/open world and yet I see on a regular basis groups finishing quickly with necros as dps. Strange huh? > > > > > > > > Honestly as long as you know how to actually play and have the right gear then it really shouldn't be an issue what to take, but to call necros not dps is wrong. > > > > > > Nah, you just have different perception of what's quick. Comparing with your average random-comp pug is one thing. Comparing with a meta comp with two good weavers is something else entirely. > > > > Yes, however if his goal is completing the content within reasonable time brackets playing his "safezone" profession, his satisfaction of the game is much better this way instead of following meta solutions. As we know, even raids do not require hitting dps benchmarks for completion, not mentioning fractals. > > It's still very staisfying to see what a good weaver can do to a health bar compared to all other classes. If you have two good ones in fractals, breaking defiance bars might become an issue because of cool downs for cc skills. Satisfaction is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > > > > I don't notice an issue with my condi reaper in any t4 fractal. Honestly people have this weird perception that necro is trash in fractals/pve/open world and yet I see on a regular basis groups finishing quickly with necros as dps. Strange huh? > > > > > > > > > > Honestly as long as you know how to actually play and have the right gear then it really shouldn't be an issue what to take, but to call necros not dps is wrong. > > > > > > > > Nah, you just have different perception of what's quick. Comparing with your average random-comp pug is one thing. Comparing with a meta comp with two good weavers is something else entirely. > > > > > > Yes, however if his goal is completing the content within reasonable time brackets playing his "safezone" profession, his satisfaction of the game is much better this way instead of following meta solutions. As we know, even raids do not require hitting dps benchmarks for completion, not mentioning fractals. > > > > It's still very staisfying to see what a good weaver can do to a health bar compared to all other classes. If you have two good ones in fractals, breaking defiance bars might become an issue because of cool downs for cc skills. > > Satisfaction is subjective. So you can't say for certain what will be more satisfactory for another player, yet you tried. "Reasonable time bracket" is also subjective by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > > > > > I don't notice an issue with my condi reaper in any t4 fractal. Honestly people have this weird perception that necro is trash in fractals/pve/open world and yet I see on a regular basis groups finishing quickly with necros as dps. Strange huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly as long as you know how to actually play and have the right gear then it really shouldn't be an issue what to take, but to call necros not dps is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > Nah, you just have different perception of what's quick. Comparing with your average random-comp pug is one thing. Comparing with a meta comp with two good weavers is something else entirely. > > > > > > > > Yes, however if his goal is completing the content within reasonable time brackets playing his "safezone" profession, his satisfaction of the game is much better this way instead of following meta solutions. As we know, even raids do not require hitting dps benchmarks for completion, not mentioning fractals. > > > > > > It's still very staisfying to see what a good weaver can do to a health bar compared to all other classes. If you have two good ones in fractals, breaking defiance bars might become an issue because of cool downs for cc skills. > > > > Satisfaction is subjective. > > So you can't say for certain what will be more satisfactory for another player, yet you tried. "Reasonable time bracket" is also subjective by the way. I'm referring your original comment. OP clearly gets his satisfaction while playing condi reapons. And as long as he gets his content done, there is nothing wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. Nah, a decent meta group is still better than a decent necro group. You have to compare things in an appropriate way. The problem is most of the necro groups claiming to be "quick", "fast" etc. etc. have never been into a reasonable meta group. I myself played necro for many months on a high level and experienced the differences. Another thing is, you really have to put up "viper scourge" in your lfg otherwise some funny staff necros and other shenanigans are joining your group and you can definitely forget the "smooth necro run". Even Subli knows that and is running with more meta similar comps and not in full viper groups! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. > > Nah, a decent meta group is still better than a decent necro group. You have to compare things in an appropriate way. > The problem is most of the necro groups claiming to be "quick", "fast" etc. etc. have never been into a reasonable meta group. I myself played necro for many months on a high level and experienced the differences. > Another thing is, you really have to put up "viper scourge" in your lfg otherwise some funny staff necros and other shenanigans are joining your group and you can definitely forget the "smooth necro run". > Even Subli knows that and is running with more meta similar comps and not in full viper groups! As long as they clear content and are happy with it there is nothing to lecture these players about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. That's what the adjective "good" is for in my posts. > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > > > > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. > > > > Nah, a decent meta group is still better than a decent necro group. You have to compare things in an appropriate way. > > The problem is most of the necro groups claiming to be "quick", "fast" etc. etc. have never been into a reasonable meta group. I myself played necro for many months on a high level and experienced the differences. > > Another thing is, you really have to put up "viper scourge" in your lfg otherwise some funny staff necros and other shenanigans are joining your group and you can definitely forget the "smooth necro run". > > Even Subli knows that and is running with more meta similar comps and not in full viper groups! > > As long as they clear content and are happy with it there is nothing to lecture these players about. Why not? Some of them might end up enjoying being efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. > > That's what the adjective "good" is for in my posts. > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > > > > > > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. > > > > > > Nah, a decent meta group is still better than a decent necro group. You have to compare things in an appropriate way. > > > The problem is most of the necro groups claiming to be "quick", "fast" etc. etc. have never been into a reasonable meta group. I myself played necro for many months on a high level and experienced the differences. > > > Another thing is, you really have to put up "viper scourge" in your lfg otherwise some funny staff necros and other shenanigans are joining your group and you can definitely forget the "smooth necro run". > > > Even Subli knows that and is running with more meta similar comps and not in full viper groups! > > > > As long as they clear content and are happy with it there is nothing to lecture these players about. > > Why not? Some of them might end up enjoying being efficient. Only if they ask for it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > > > > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. > > > > Nah, a decent meta group is still better than a decent necro group. You have to compare things in an appropriate way. > > The problem is most of the necro groups claiming to be "quick", "fast" etc. etc. have never been into a reasonable meta group. I myself played necro for many months on a high level and experienced the differences. > > Another thing is, you really have to put up "viper scourge" in your lfg otherwise some funny staff necros and other shenanigans are joining your group and you can definitely forget the "smooth necro run". > > Even Subli knows that and is running with more meta similar comps and not in full viper groups! > > As long as they clear content and are happy with it there is nothing to lecture these players about. That was not the point here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > > > > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. > > > > That's what the adjective "good" is for in my posts. > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > There's nothing wrong, but his performance will still be considered slow in comparison to a good meta group. Which was my original comment. > > > > > > > > > > Only if meta group is skilled enough to execute meta builds properly. I think you are aware there are people who think they are meta speedclearers but in reality they would execute better numbers as necro than they are on weaver? This has been the case since dungeon elitism was blooming. > > > > > > > > Nah, a decent meta group is still better than a decent necro group. You have to compare things in an appropriate way. > > > > The problem is most of the necro groups claiming to be "quick", "fast" etc. etc. have never been into a reasonable meta group. I myself played necro for many months on a high level and experienced the differences. > > > > Another thing is, you really have to put up "viper scourge" in your lfg otherwise some funny staff necros and other shenanigans are joining your group and you can definitely forget the "smooth necro run". > > > > Even Subli knows that and is running with more meta similar comps and not in full viper groups! > > > > > > As long as they clear content and are happy with it there is nothing to lecture these players about. > > > > Why not? Some of them might end up enjoying being efficient. > > Only if they ask for it in the first place. Why so? I'm always happy when somebody tells me some new tactic and I obviously don't want to ask every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogba.6204 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Today was pretty probably the worst day in weeks, after breezing through cm's we had a bad first skip in twilight oasis and then went through 5 Chronos because of that. First one left after we failed the skip Second left when Amala "kills" the group at 75% *shrug* Third one joined inbetween Sandbinders, left without a word. Fourth joined us at last Sandbinder, got killed by a disgusting 0% lightningstorm from said Sandbinder, left too. Last one killed Amala with us first try, then left the group too. We then proceeded to do the remaining fractals with one more DPS because fuck waiting for chronos. Gonna start playing it myself now tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnasis.6892 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 My point has always been that they might not be top tier dps anymore (I looked at the raid dps charts recently, though I acknowledge that raids are not fractals and can't be exactly adhered to) you can't say they aren't dps. Even though I can't hit it, 30k is solid dps for the people that can. They just aren't dps you are interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > My point has always been that they might not be top tier dps anymore (I looked at the raid dps charts recently, though I acknowledge that raids are not fractals and can't be exactly adhered to) you can't say they aren't dps. Even though I can't hit it, 30k is solid dps for the people that can. > > They just aren't dps you are interested in. Whether or not I'm interested is irrelevant. Necromancers in particular and condi builds in general are simply too slow for fractals. Their ramp up time is comparable to the time it takes to kill the mobs or the boss. In raids it is different, as the bosses there have hit points in the tens of millions. So in raids - yeah, necro can be a valid dps. Even pretty useful in certain encounters, albeit probably not really optimal anywhere. But in fractals, no. I mean, sure. you can do t4 with anything. But that's the thing - it would be "anything", not "dps". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I'm giving up t4 too lol Not worth the time doing :p Found myself raging at myself constantly.. better take a break from it than to get few more grey hair lol Yesterday we had a chrono who can't chrono (in cm).. why on earth do you join a party that asked for "experienced chrono only" group .. there are other group you can join to train your chronomancing skill but don't join my group that ask for "experienced chrono" pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 A lot of veterans are bored of fractals. I also have not touched them in weeks. Difficulty level is mostly boring, rewards are boring (you get all the unique stuff pretty fast) and generic stuff that bores me to death just looking at it. Pugs are also wasting too much time if you dont play at daily reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Karnasis.6892" said: > > My point has always been that they might not be top tier dps anymore (I looked at the raid dps charts recently, though I acknowledge that raids are not fractals and can't be exactly adhered to) you can't say they aren't dps. Even though I can't hit it, 30k is solid dps for the people that can. > > > > They just aren't dps you are interested in. > > Whether or not I'm interested is irrelevant. Necromancers in particular and condi builds in general are simply too slow for fractals. Their ramp up time is comparable to the time it takes to kill the mobs or the boss. In raids it is different, as the bosses there have hit points in the tens of millions. So in raids - yeah, necro can be a valid dps. Even pretty useful in certain encounters, albeit probably not really optimal anywhere. But in fractals, no. I mean, sure. you can do t4 with anything. But that's the thing - it would be "anything", not "dps". Yeah, I love my necro but I won't join any meta grp with it. Meta grps need burst dmg. They pull trash mobs on top of each other and quickly finish them. But for non meta t4 pug grps I find necro super fun. Often ppl there don't pull stuff together so I can make full use of my AoE abilities. And because most often in t4 non meta pugs, the mobs don't die instantly I can also use epidemic to spread stuff. Necro condi scourge is absolutely more than fine to run t4 fratals. But is has really not much use in a meta grp composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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