Shikigami.4013 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Smiggles.6823" said: > What constitutes "legal" vs "illegal" farming? Legal: You are afk anywhere in the game and your char stands around doing nothing, pets killing mobs automatically. (You will be automatically disconnected after a certain time anyway) Illegal: You are afk at a place where it is beneficial for your char (i.e. you will get anything out of it, be it xp, karma, loot or whatever) and your char does ANYTHING no matter if it autocasting a skill via the official game client, macroed by your mouse or keyboard software, or botted. Clarification: AFK is defined as not responding to a GM check/interaction > @"Chris Cleary.8017" (Game Security Lead) in a thread in May 2016 > >1) Using skill (1 or more) while AFK >2) AFKing in a place where it is beneficial for your character to be at >3) Unresponsive to interaction with GMs > >If all 3 of these apply to what you are doing, you may get actioned for it. So back to the questions: > @"Smiggles.6823" said: >If I jump on my necro on a minion master spec and run around hitting 1 to aim my little army in a mob dense area I'll be bored but playing legally I think. >If alt-tab out for a bit and let my minions defend me while I check an email legal? I assume. >Alt tabbing every 5 min to respawn them while watching youtube and hoping mobs spawn not? Same for ranger with pet or engie with turrets I assume. >If I'm not actually using third party software this would be a weird way to "play" but is it bannable? Surely the economy would respond to this kind of farming by prices dropping and even with a % bonus infusion the xp or gold from kills must be less than playing pvp matches or doing events. >Maybe I'm missing something. I main ele though and unless we get a perma-pet spec it seems like eles won't be able to do this. None of these examples include 1) 2) and 3). Either you are not AFK (first example) or your char is not doing anything while you are AFK (following examples). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Smiggles.6823" said: > I don't think I fully understand the issue here so can I ask for an explanation? > > I remember seeing the Lake Doric leather farm and assumed it was legal and it would just drive the mat prices into the dirt. Then the bombing came and I realized it was a problem. > > What constitutes "legal" vs "illegal" farming? > > If I jump on my necro on a minion master spec and run around hitting 1 to aim my little army in a mob dense area I'll be bored but playing legally I think. > > If alt-tab out for a bit and let my minions defend me while I check an email legal? I assume. > > Alt tabbing every 5 min to respawn them while watching youtube and hoping mobs spawn not? Same for ranger with pet or engie with turrets I assume. > > If I'm not actually using third party software this would be a weird way to "play" but is it bannable? Surely the economy would respond to this kind of farming by prices dropping and even with a % bonus infusion the xp or gold from kills must be less than playing pvp matches or doing events. > > Maybe I'm missing something. I main ele though and unless we get a perma-pet spec it seems like eles won't be able to do this. When you park, ALT-TAB for 6months plus.. that's the issue. Leather farm is not an issue because it is players running around that portion of a map killing mob in all different ways and means, spawning champs, looting chests... key thing is the player is actually playing the game, controlling actions and moving around the map. Now take you necro MM, stand in the leather farm and let your minions defend you then.. .. would be fun to watch from the hill I think. AFK auto skill/macro farmers/bots don't choose those kind of places because it wont work for them.. they choose places where they know there is no risk of being trounced, the mobs respawn freely in specific places/patterns and ANET are simply allowing maps to become drenched in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiggles.6823 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Ah kk, this basically clears that up. Thanks everyone for the insight. I hate farming generally and find it super boring in any game. I tend to change my activities a lot and currently I'm working on my first map completion since I started playing (around the angry joe review release) on my ele main and unlocking every elite spec on my alts. Still have to do Firebrand, the Revenant pof elite and Mirage. The rest are good to go... possibly 20 or 30 hp points to go on my sandshroud necro spec. I'm hoping next expac brings duel pistol ele or longbow ele next with an arcane or fast switching like core theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaa.8475 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 or you can mind your on business and keep riding on by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Of course you're allowed to go afk in this game and of course anet won't do anything when your AI pets start killing stuff when you're gone. To say that this would be a bannable offense or violation is just wrong. What you can't do however is use exploits or bots/hacks to get rid of the already implemented automated system that deals with afk players. As long as you're physically pressing buttons on your keyboard every few minutes to not get kicked from the instance and as long as you reply in a certain time frame to GM respones you're doing nothing wrong. And ppl that continuously report other players that are not using bots or something like it, for botting, those are the ppl that are abusing the report system and those are the people that are doing something wrong even though they might think they help, they're doing more harm than good by spamming the GMs and devs full with false reports, so that the reports of real bots and hackers get drowned in useless reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo.5609 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I just report them for botting and move on. It's not my place to investigate whether they are bots, or afk players, or people who have left GW2 on a second monitor while they do something else etc. That's for GMs to do, I'm just helping with marking some potential bots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > Of course you're allowed to go afk in this game and of course anet won't do anything when your AI pets start killing stuff when you're gone. To say that this would be a bannable offense or violation is just wrong. > > What you can't do however is use exploits or bots/hacks to get rid of the already implemented automated system that deals with afk players. As long as you're physically pressing buttons on your keyboard every few minutes to not get kicked from the instance and as long as you reply in a certain time frame to GM respones you're doing nothing wrong. > > And ppl that continuously report other players that are not using bots or something like it, for botting, those are the ppl that are abusing the report system and those are the people that are doing something wrong even though they might think they help, they're doing more harm than good by spamming the GMs and devs full with false reports, so that the reports of real bots and hackers get drowned in useless reports. Wrong .. the whole point of the report system is that if you believe an offense is being committed then report. False reporting is not for me or you to decide.. we report what we see and ANET should be checking those reports for offences. If you think seeing a player AFK for 3-6months in the same spot, doing nothing but using minions, turrets and the pin point precise auto skill.. . Or is it a normal thing for say 20-50 engi's, necro's and rangers to sit at one spot all day every day with nothing more than autoskill farming the same few respawning mobs over and over and then get a little more lucky when an event spawns on them for a few more mats to drop. Either your missing the point or choosing not to draw attention /deflect attention from the issue, either way that's your choice not mine or others. More and more maps are beginning to be drenched with alt account AFK farms, which has an effect on both the economy, they effect map events that require maps to have a certain amount of participation in order to have a chance at completing and it affects other players that don't want to be running around in a swamp of exploiters, cheats and bots... that right there keeps me away from certain maps/events and the more maps that begin to be swamped the less I go play GW2 and I am pretty darn sure I am not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > Of course you're allowed to go afk in this game and of course anet won't do anything when your AI pets start killing stuff when you're gone. To say that this would be a bannable offense or violation is just wrong. > > > > What you can't do however is use exploits or bots/hacks to get rid of the already implemented automated system that deals with afk players. As long as you're physically pressing buttons on your keyboard every few minutes to not get kicked from the instance and as long as you reply in a certain time frame to GM respones you're doing nothing wrong. > > > > And ppl that continuously report other players that are not using bots or something like it, for botting, those are the ppl that are abusing the report system and those are the people that are doing something wrong even though they might think they help, they're doing more harm than good by spamming the GMs and devs full with false reports, so that the reports of real bots and hackers get drowned in useless reports. > > Wrong .. the whole point of the report system is that if you believe an offense is being committed then report. > False reporting is not for me or you to decide.. we report what we see and ANET should be checking those reports for offences. > If you think seeing a player AFK for 3-6months in the same spot, doing nothing but using minions, turrets and the pin point precise auto skill.. . Or is it a normal thing for say 20-50 engi's, necro's and rangers to sit at one spot all day every day with nothing more than autoskill farming the same few respawning mobs over and over and then get a little more lucky when an event spawns on them for a few more mats to drop. > Either your missing the point or choosing not to draw attention /deflect attention from the issue, either way that's your choice not mine or others. > More and more maps are beginning to be drenched with alt account AFK farms, which has an effect on both the economy, they effect map events that require maps to have a certain amount of participation in order to have a chance at completing and it affects other players that don't want to be running around in a swamp of exploiters, cheats and bots... that right there keeps me away from certain maps/events and the more maps that begin to be swamped the less I go play GW2 and I am pretty darn sure I am not the only one. If you report someone, then as you said, it's not on you but on Anet to decide if the accusation made is true or not. I know it's hard for you to understand that if you report someone continuously for 6 month and this guy is still not banned, that you were reporting him for doing nothing that violates Anets rules. So yes, if you report someone continuously either Anet lies when they say, that their GMs and devs found nothing that would justify to ban that player or you have continuously reported someone falsly. These are the two things, either Anet is lying and the report button really does not work or you are reporting ppl that Anet decided shouldn't be reported. Do you get the reasoning behind that argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > Of course you're allowed to go afk in this game and of course anet won't do anything when your AI pets start killing stuff when you're gone. To say that this would be a bannable offense or violation is just wrong. > > > > > > What you can't do however is use exploits or bots/hacks to get rid of the already implemented automated system that deals with afk players. As long as you're physically pressing buttons on your keyboard every few minutes to not get kicked from the instance and as long as you reply in a certain time frame to GM respones you're doing nothing wrong. > > > > > > And ppl that continuously report other players that are not using bots or something like it, for botting, those are the ppl that are abusing the report system and those are the people that are doing something wrong even though they might think they help, they're doing more harm than good by spamming the GMs and devs full with false reports, so that the reports of real bots and hackers get drowned in useless reports. > > > > Wrong .. the whole point of the report system is that if you believe an offense is being committed then report. > > False reporting is not for me or you to decide.. we report what we see and ANET should be checking those reports for offences. > > If you think seeing a player AFK for 3-6months in the same spot, doing nothing but using minions, turrets and the pin point precise auto skill.. . Or is it a normal thing for say 20-50 engi's, necro's and rangers to sit at one spot all day every day with nothing more than autoskill farming the same few respawning mobs over and over and then get a little more lucky when an event spawns on them for a few more mats to drop. > > Either your missing the point or choosing not to draw attention /deflect attention from the issue, either way that's your choice not mine or others. > > More and more maps are beginning to be drenched with alt account AFK farms, which has an effect on both the economy, they effect map events that require maps to have a certain amount of participation in order to have a chance at completing and it affects other players that don't want to be running around in a swamp of exploiters, cheats and bots... that right there keeps me away from certain maps/events and the more maps that begin to be swamped the less I go play GW2 and I am pretty darn sure I am not the only one. > > If you report someone, then as you said, it's not on you but on Anet to decide if the accusation made is true or not. I know it's hard for you to understand that if you report someone continuously for 6 month and this guy is still not banned, that you were reporting him for doing nothing that violates Anets rules. > > So yes, if you report someone continuously either Anet lies when they say, that their GMs and devs found nothing that would justify to ban that player or you have continuously reported someone falsly. These are the two things, either Anet is lying and the report button really does not work or you are reporting ppl that Anet decided shouldn't be reported. > > Do you get the reasoning behind that argument? Your of course assuming that the report is even being looked at.. yes we all know they say they do.. but if the same player is sat in the same exact spot doing nothing but auto spamming the same skill on a precise time in order to get minions to attack respawns.. then yes it does not take more than a few brain cells to understand that player is autoskill afk farming, using macros or is a bot.. even more so when they are offline for the same period of time they are sat there... for months on end. Must be a real long movie or a big shopping trip. I get it, you don't want the issue to be resolved and you will look for an excuse to butter the issue over. That's your prerogative, not mine so I will take my chances reporting the players I see. If ANET choose to take action on me for reporting them then so be it, it will speak volumes on how they then value integrity of their ToS's and the product as a whole. I actually subscribe to 2 other MMO's that take it more seriously so I won't loose much sleep over it, and it means my real money will spent elsewhere. As I have said I am pretty sure I am not the only player that is starting to be turned off GW2 because of the lack of action with these kind of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > Of course you're allowed to go afk in this game and of course anet won't do anything when your AI pets start killing stuff when you're gone. To say that this would be a bannable offense or violation is just wrong. > > > > > > > > What you can't do however is use exploits or bots/hacks to get rid of the already implemented automated system that deals with afk players. As long as you're physically pressing buttons on your keyboard every few minutes to not get kicked from the instance and as long as you reply in a certain time frame to GM respones you're doing nothing wrong. > > > > > > > > And ppl that continuously report other players that are not using bots or something like it, for botting, those are the ppl that are abusing the report system and those are the people that are doing something wrong even though they might think they help, they're doing more harm than good by spamming the GMs and devs full with false reports, so that the reports of real bots and hackers get drowned in useless reports. > > > > > > Wrong .. the whole point of the report system is that if you believe an offense is being committed then report. > > > False reporting is not for me or you to decide.. we report what we see and ANET should be checking those reports for offences. > > > If you think seeing a player AFK for 3-6months in the same spot, doing nothing but using minions, turrets and the pin point precise auto skill.. . Or is it a normal thing for say 20-50 engi's, necro's and rangers to sit at one spot all day every day with nothing more than autoskill farming the same few respawning mobs over and over and then get a little more lucky when an event spawns on them for a few more mats to drop. > > > Either your missing the point or choosing not to draw attention /deflect attention from the issue, either way that's your choice not mine or others. > > > More and more maps are beginning to be drenched with alt account AFK farms, which has an effect on both the economy, they effect map events that require maps to have a certain amount of participation in order to have a chance at completing and it affects other players that don't want to be running around in a swamp of exploiters, cheats and bots... that right there keeps me away from certain maps/events and the more maps that begin to be swamped the less I go play GW2 and I am pretty darn sure I am not the only one. > > > > If you report someone, then as you said, it's not on you but on Anet to decide if the accusation made is true or not. I know it's hard for you to understand that if you report someone continuously for 6 month and this guy is still not banned, that you were reporting him for doing nothing that violates Anets rules. > > > > So yes, if you report someone continuously either Anet lies when they say, that their GMs and devs found nothing that would justify to ban that player or you have continuously reported someone falsly. These are the two things, either Anet is lying and the report button really does not work or you are reporting ppl that Anet decided shouldn't be reported. > > > > Do you get the reasoning behind that argument? > > Your of course assuming that the report is even being looked at.. yes we all know they say they do.. but if the same player is sat in the same exact spot doing nothing but auto spamming the same skill on a precise time in order to get minions to attack respawns.. then yes it does not take more than a few brain cells to understand that player is autoskill afk farming, using macros or is a bot.. even more so when they are offline for the same period of time they are sat there... for months on end. Must be a real long movie or a big shopping trip. > I get it, you don't want the issue to be resolved and you will look for an excuse to butter the issue over. That's your prerogative, not mine so I will take my chances reporting the players I see. > If ANET choose to take action on me for reporting them then so be it, it will speak volumes on how they then value integrity of their ToS's and the product as a whole. I actually subscribe to 2 other MMO's that take it more seriously so I won't loose much sleep over it, and it means my real money will spent elsewhere. > As I have said I am pretty sure I am not the only player that is starting to be turned off GW2 because of the lack of action with these kind of issues. Most ppl just mark an AoE weapon skill as their AutoAttack. And yes you're right. I am convinced that this type of behavior has no major or in most cases not even any noticeable negative effect on the games economy. I am also convinced that the absolute majority of players has no game breaking experiences with 10-20 ppl in a map occupying a 400 radius area. Also, you have no idea if they're using macros or bots. Anet is the only one allowed to make that decision. And they either decide, the effort and resources to 100% making sure that this is no bot or makro user is not worth the effort (meaning, they as well see this as a minor issue not affecting the economy) or there really is no way for them to figure this out 100% and ban then. And of course there's also the possibility that these users are not exploiting/hacking/botting or do something else that violates their rules. Here's a recent and interesting YT video on someone reverse engineering an GW2 Trading post bot, sold online. He was able to pretty easily find EVERY user of this bot in the game, with acc names, with their API key, so he could find out what type of player/account uses bots etc. He was also able to track what exactly these bots did while online, what items they sold/bought, what profit they made etc His conclusion: The bots are used by very few players, regularly used by only a handful and only one or two accounts make real measurable profit but overall they have basically no effect at all at the economy, which is probably the reason why anet doesn't even bother to look at this bot. [https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI](https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI "https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI") Trading bot might be another issue but it just shows that even with selling an easy to use trading bot that promises hundreds of golds of profit per week, the amount of ppl that use it is negligible and also the effect on the game is not major. How much harm can farming 3 ice spiders in 3 minutes more for 20 ppl on a map can have on the economy? And also pls remember that we already have DR in the game implemented to deal with afk farming to some extend. [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > > Of course you're allowed to go afk in this game and of course anet won't do anything when your AI pets start killing stuff when you're gone. To say that this would be a bannable offense or violation is just wrong. > > > > > > > > > > What you can't do however is use exploits or bots/hacks to get rid of the already implemented automated system that deals with afk players. As long as you're physically pressing buttons on your keyboard every few minutes to not get kicked from the instance and as long as you reply in a certain time frame to GM respones you're doing nothing wrong. > > > > > > > > > > And ppl that continuously report other players that are not using bots or something like it, for botting, those are the ppl that are abusing the report system and those are the people that are doing something wrong even though they might think they help, they're doing more harm than good by spamming the GMs and devs full with false reports, so that the reports of real bots and hackers get drowned in useless reports. > > > > > > > > Wrong .. the whole point of the report system is that if you believe an offense is being committed then report. > > > > False reporting is not for me or you to decide.. we report what we see and ANET should be checking those reports for offences. > > > > If you think seeing a player AFK for 3-6months in the same spot, doing nothing but using minions, turrets and the pin point precise auto skill.. . Or is it a normal thing for say 20-50 engi's, necro's and rangers to sit at one spot all day every day with nothing more than autoskill farming the same few respawning mobs over and over and then get a little more lucky when an event spawns on them for a few more mats to drop. > > > > Either your missing the point or choosing not to draw attention /deflect attention from the issue, either way that's your choice not mine or others. > > > > More and more maps are beginning to be drenched with alt account AFK farms, which has an effect on both the economy, they effect map events that require maps to have a certain amount of participation in order to have a chance at completing and it affects other players that don't want to be running around in a swamp of exploiters, cheats and bots... that right there keeps me away from certain maps/events and the more maps that begin to be swamped the less I go play GW2 and I am pretty darn sure I am not the only one. > > > > > > If you report someone, then as you said, it's not on you but on Anet to decide if the accusation made is true or not. I know it's hard for you to understand that if you report someone continuously for 6 month and this guy is still not banned, that you were reporting him for doing nothing that violates Anets rules. > > > > > > So yes, if you report someone continuously either Anet lies when they say, that their GMs and devs found nothing that would justify to ban that player or you have continuously reported someone falsly. These are the two things, either Anet is lying and the report button really does not work or you are reporting ppl that Anet decided shouldn't be reported. > > > > > > Do you get the reasoning behind that argument? > > > > Your of course assuming that the report is even being looked at.. yes we all know they say they do.. but if the same player is sat in the same exact spot doing nothing but auto spamming the same skill on a precise time in order to get minions to attack respawns.. then yes it does not take more than a few brain cells to understand that player is autoskill afk farming, using macros or is a bot.. even more so when they are offline for the same period of time they are sat there... for months on end. Must be a real long movie or a big shopping trip. > > I get it, you don't want the issue to be resolved and you will look for an excuse to butter the issue over. That's your prerogative, not mine so I will take my chances reporting the players I see. > > If ANET choose to take action on me for reporting them then so be it, it will speak volumes on how they then value integrity of their ToS's and the product as a whole. I actually subscribe to 2 other MMO's that take it more seriously so I won't loose much sleep over it, and it means my real money will spent elsewhere. > > As I have said I am pretty sure I am not the only player that is starting to be turned off GW2 because of the lack of action with these kind of issues. > > Most ppl just mark an AoE weapon skill as their AutoAttack. > > And yes you're right. I am convinced that this type of behavior has no major or in most cases not even any noticeable negative effect on the games economy. I am also convinced that the absolute majority of players has no game breaking experiences with 10-20 ppl in a map occupying a 400 radius area. > > Also, you have no idea if they're using macros or bots. Anet is the only one allowed to make that decision. And they either decide, the effort and resources to 100% making sure that this is no bot or makro user is not worth the effort (meaning, they as well see this as a minor issue not affecting the economy) or there really is no way for them to figure this out 100% and ban then. And of course there's also the possibility that these users are not exploiting/hacking/botting or do something else that violates their rules. > > Here's a recent and interesting YT video on someone reverse engineering an GW2 Trading post bot, sold online. He was able to pretty easily find EVERY user of this bot in the game, with acc names, with their API key, so he could find out what type of player/account uses bots etc. He was also able to track what exactly these bots did while online, what items they sold/bought, what profit they made etc > His conclusion: The bots are used by very few players, regularly used by only a handful and only one or two accounts make real measurable profit but overall they have basically no effect at all at the economy, which is probably the reason why anet doesn't even bother to look at this bot. > > [https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI](https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI "https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI") Seen the video.. its an old one ... and that was only a snippit of the real issue.. you think that small sample experiment showed anything other than a few accounts can have some effect.. multiply its effect by thousands and thousands.. then you might get a more rounded view on the effects. Also iirc without watching it, that YT made it clear that for some reason the trading post bot was no longer available.. either it was rubbish or easily detectable.. but there are others more sophisticated ones if you delve deeper. Then again I was not actually talking about trading post bots more that the economy is affected by the growing number of mass afk farm spots appearing across maps. You think what you think.. I will think what I think and I will keep right on reporting the scummy cheats that I see doing what I think is bad.. ANET can make their judgement call (if they in fact even bother) and all is good in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > > > Of course you're allowed to go afk in this game and of course anet won't do anything when your AI pets start killing stuff when you're gone. To say that this would be a bannable offense or violation is just wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > What you can't do however is use exploits or bots/hacks to get rid of the already implemented automated system that deals with afk players. As long as you're physically pressing buttons on your keyboard every few minutes to not get kicked from the instance and as long as you reply in a certain time frame to GM respones you're doing nothing wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > And ppl that continuously report other players that are not using bots or something like it, for botting, those are the ppl that are abusing the report system and those are the people that are doing something wrong even though they might think they help, they're doing more harm than good by spamming the GMs and devs full with false reports, so that the reports of real bots and hackers get drowned in useless reports. > > > > > > > > > > Wrong .. the whole point of the report system is that if you believe an offense is being committed then report. > > > > > False reporting is not for me or you to decide.. we report what we see and ANET should be checking those reports for offences. > > > > > If you think seeing a player AFK for 3-6months in the same spot, doing nothing but using minions, turrets and the pin point precise auto skill.. . Or is it a normal thing for say 20-50 engi's, necro's and rangers to sit at one spot all day every day with nothing more than autoskill farming the same few respawning mobs over and over and then get a little more lucky when an event spawns on them for a few more mats to drop. > > > > > Either your missing the point or choosing not to draw attention /deflect attention from the issue, either way that's your choice not mine or others. > > > > > More and more maps are beginning to be drenched with alt account AFK farms, which has an effect on both the economy, they effect map events that require maps to have a certain amount of participation in order to have a chance at completing and it affects other players that don't want to be running around in a swamp of exploiters, cheats and bots... that right there keeps me away from certain maps/events and the more maps that begin to be swamped the less I go play GW2 and I am pretty darn sure I am not the only one. > > > > > > > > If you report someone, then as you said, it's not on you but on Anet to decide if the accusation made is true or not. I know it's hard for you to understand that if you report someone continuously for 6 month and this guy is still not banned, that you were reporting him for doing nothing that violates Anets rules. > > > > > > > > So yes, if you report someone continuously either Anet lies when they say, that their GMs and devs found nothing that would justify to ban that player or you have continuously reported someone falsly. These are the two things, either Anet is lying and the report button really does not work or you are reporting ppl that Anet decided shouldn't be reported. > > > > > > > > Do you get the reasoning behind that argument? > > > > > > Your of course assuming that the report is even being looked at.. yes we all know they say they do.. but if the same player is sat in the same exact spot doing nothing but auto spamming the same skill on a precise time in order to get minions to attack respawns.. then yes it does not take more than a few brain cells to understand that player is autoskill afk farming, using macros or is a bot.. even more so when they are offline for the same period of time they are sat there... for months on end. Must be a real long movie or a big shopping trip. > > > I get it, you don't want the issue to be resolved and you will look for an excuse to butter the issue over. That's your prerogative, not mine so I will take my chances reporting the players I see. > > > If ANET choose to take action on me for reporting them then so be it, it will speak volumes on how they then value integrity of their ToS's and the product as a whole. I actually subscribe to 2 other MMO's that take it more seriously so I won't loose much sleep over it, and it means my real money will spent elsewhere. > > > As I have said I am pretty sure I am not the only player that is starting to be turned off GW2 because of the lack of action with these kind of issues. > > > > Most ppl just mark an AoE weapon skill as their AutoAttack. > > > > And yes you're right. I am convinced that this type of behavior has no major or in most cases not even any noticeable negative effect on the games economy. I am also convinced that the absolute majority of players has no game breaking experiences with 10-20 ppl in a map occupying a 400 radius area. > > > > Also, you have no idea if they're using macros or bots. Anet is the only one allowed to make that decision. And they either decide, the effort and resources to 100% making sure that this is no bot or makro user is not worth the effort (meaning, they as well see this as a minor issue not affecting the economy) or there really is no way for them to figure this out 100% and ban then. And of course there's also the possibility that these users are not exploiting/hacking/botting or do something else that violates their rules. > > > > Here's a recent and interesting YT video on someone reverse engineering an GW2 Trading post bot, sold online. He was able to pretty easily find EVERY user of this bot in the game, with acc names, with their API key, so he could find out what type of player/account uses bots etc. He was also able to track what exactly these bots did while online, what items they sold/bought, what profit they made etc > > His conclusion: The bots are used by very few players, regularly used by only a handful and only one or two accounts make real measurable profit but overall they have basically no effect at all at the economy, which is probably the reason why anet doesn't even bother to look at this bot. > > > > [https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI](https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI "https://youtu.be/aRDGI7UVSuI") > > Seen the video.. its an old one ... and that was only a snippit of the real issue.. you think that small sample experiment showed anything other than a few accounts can have some effect.. multiply its effect by thousands and thousands.. then you might get a more rounded view on the effects. Also iirc without watching it, that YT made it clear that for some reason the trading post bot was no longer available.. either it was rubbish or easily detectable.. but there are others more sophisticated ones if you delve deeper. Then again I was not actually talking about trading post bots more that the economy is affected by the growing number of mass afk farm spots appearing across maps. > You think what you think.. I will think what I think and I will keep right on reporting the scummy cheats that I see doing what I think is bad.. ANET can make their judgement call (if they in fact even bother) and all is good in the world. And just another thing to add on the economy of ppl farming semi afk/macro/botting low level mats. What's the logical connection between an decrease in low level mat prices and an negative effect on the majority of the GW2 players, that plays in lvl 80 maps? Low lvl mats are usually used in large amounts to craft legendaries/ascended gear and most ppl don't want to play hrs in low lvl maps to farm low lvl mats, so they buy them on the tp. That's the reason why these mats have so much more value than lvl 80 mats (in most cases). So, if you're a "normal" GW2 player that now needs a full stack of low level mats, then you actually profit from afk farmers that put all their low lvl mats on the tp and therefore lower the prices. It's not like these ppl would afk farm ectos and the mobs there would drop T6 mats or whatever. The majority of GW2 players have to pay LESS gold on ascended gear and legendaries. And the majority of GW2 players does not run around in low level areas to farm the same mats that afk farmers do, so that they would be impacted negatively by dropping prices. And if you're a RIBA player for example that opens his bags at lvl 50-56 chars you're also in some way trying to intentionally bypass certain ways the game was built and you shouldn't be the "moral" compass in this discussion, that immediately points with his fingers at others So how exactly are they impacting the economy in a negative way? Because things like istan and silverwastes are effecting the economy for most GW2 players so much more than all afk farming methodes combined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > So, if you're a "normal" GW2 player that now needs a full stack of low level mats, then you actually profit from afk farmers that put all their low lvl mats on the tp and therefore lower the prices. If you are a player not working on a legendary, the materials you gather are worth much less because of these "players". The price of any materials that drop while you play normally has been lowered when you go to TP them. This argument that these people are "helping" others is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > So, if you're a "normal" GW2 player that now needs a full stack of low level mats, then you actually profit from afk farmers that put all their low lvl mats on the tp and therefore lower the prices. > > If you are a player not working on a legendary, the materials you gather are worth much less because of these "players". The price of any materials that drop while you play normally has been lowered when you go to TP them. > > This argument that these people are "helping" others is false. > This person gets it.. bots don't care about price they care about qty... they do not have an allegiance to anyone or anything. whether the player behind the cheat makes 1g/hour or 100g per hour is irrelevant when the tap never runs dry. or the player can choose to hold back the sale of the mats, buy up what they can from tp and dry up the supply knowing the demand is always high .. then the bot pushes out the sales at a price. There are lots of ways the bots can control the economy and so affect both supply and demand. Think less of an individual making coin through one or 2 afk bots or tp bots or afk farm exploited alts.. think multi mass accounts with multi mass toons being used to dominate a particular mat, item etc and watch the scale of the issue increase. Your YT video was merely a drop in the ocean of the dark side of the game but even that showed you that even though those players using that tp bot were not great at doing so or the bot wasn't that well developed and got caught (more likely as it went unavailable pretty quickly), they still profited a lot over a short sample of time... but as I said previous, I wasn't discussing the issue from a TP bot aspect.. more the misuse/ exploitation of AFK farming /farm bots gamewide as a whole.. but yes once it goes from a farming issue to a trading post bot issue.. the game becomes a swamp.. something that's getting worse imo... hence why so many farms are appearing across maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > So, if you're a "normal" GW2 player that now needs a full stack of low level mats, then you actually profit from afk farmers that put all their low lvl mats on the tp and therefore lower the prices. > > > > If you are a player not working on a legendary, the materials you gather are worth much less because of these "players". The price of any materials that drop while you play normally has been lowered when you go to TP them. > > > > This argument that these people are "helping" others is false. > > > > This person gets it.. bots don't care about price they care about qty... they do not have an allegiance to anyone or anything. whether the player behind the cheat makes 1g/hour or 100g per hour is irrelevant when the tap never runs dry. or the player can choose to hold back the sale of the mats, buy up what they can from tp and dry up the supply knowing the demand is always high .. then the bot pushes out the sales at a price. > There are lots of ways the bots can control the economy and so affect both supply and demand. > Think less of an individual making coin through one or 2 afk bots or tp bots or afk farm exploited alts.. think multi mass accounts with multi mass toons being used to dominate a particular mat, item etc and watch the scale of the issue increase. > Your YT video was merely a drop in the ocean of the dark side of the game but even that showed you that even though those players using that tp bot were not great at doing so or the bot wasn't that well developed and got caught (more likely as it went unavailable pretty quickly), they still profited a lot over a short sample of time... but as I said previous, I wasn't discussing the issue from a TP bot aspect.. more the misuse/ exploitation of AFK farming /farm bots gamewide as a whole.. but yes once it goes from a farming issue to a trading post bot issue.. the game becomes a swamp.. something that's getting worse imo... hence why so many farms are appearing across maps. > > Then you don't understand how the TP works. You can't just pump tons of stuff in it you have to put things in it that are actually bought by other players. If quantity would be what matters, ppl wouldn't farm stuff for the TP but for normal ingame vendors to sell. That's not what is happening. Also, you still don't know if it is bots. Here, that's what most ppl do when they're standing around: [https://youtu.be/ia4mr1LTlAE](https://youtu.be/ia4mr1LTlAE "https://youtu.be/ia4mr1LTlAE") And then they sell the t4 mats they've farmed and you still haven't even given me an example how afk farming t4 mats hurts lvl 80 players that in 9/10 cases do not sell t4 mats on the trading post, because they use more than they get dropped. That's the reason why ppl are farming t4 mats in the first place. The price is high when many ppl want it and few offer it. That's a mere fact. Which means the majority of GW2 players wants to buy t4 and not sell it. Which means the majority profits from lower t4 prices. Also, the T5 mats and T6 mats are so much less worth because of Istan and SW and certain boxes you can buy there with currency. This has nothing to do with afk farming. The prices for t5 and t6 are so low that it isn't even worth anymore to upgrade the mats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > And then they sell the t4 mats they've farmed and you still haven't even given me an example how afk farming t4 mats hurts lvl 80 players that in 9/10 cases do not sell t4 mats on the trading post, because they use more than they get dropped. > That's the reason why ppl are farming t4 mats in the first place. The price is high when many ppl want it and few offer it. That's a mere fact. Which means the majority of GW2 players wants to buy t4 and not sell it. Which means the majority profits from lower t4 prices. The flaw in your logic is right here. You pull a number like "9/10" out of the air and make a supposition about their needs and actions that is inaccurate. I'm a pretty average player, I personally sell my t4 mats. If you drive the price lower with afk farming, then when I go to cash out by selling them at TP then I make less money. If you were actively playing the game then awesome....but you aren't. You're autoattacking, tabbing out and making sure you are only active enough to respond to a GM. If Anet recognized this as a viable playstyle, then awesome. But they don't. If they did there would be no catapults in Lake Doric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > So, if you're a "normal" GW2 player that now needs a full stack of low level mats, then you actually profit from afk farmers that put all their low lvl mats on the tp and therefore lower the prices. > > > > > > If you are a player not working on a legendary, the materials you gather are worth much less because of these "players". The price of any materials that drop while you play normally has been lowered when you go to TP them. > > > > > > This argument that these people are "helping" others is false. > > > > > > > This person gets it.. bots don't care about price they care about qty... they do not have an allegiance to anyone or anything. whether the player behind the cheat makes 1g/hour or 100g per hour is irrelevant when the tap never runs dry. or the player can choose to hold back the sale of the mats, buy up what they can from tp and dry up the supply knowing the demand is always high .. then the bot pushes out the sales at a price. > > There are lots of ways the bots can control the economy and so affect both supply and demand. > > Think less of an individual making coin through one or 2 afk bots or tp bots or afk farm exploited alts.. think multi mass accounts with multi mass toons being used to dominate a particular mat, item etc and watch the scale of the issue increase. > > Your YT video was merely a drop in the ocean of the dark side of the game but even that showed you that even though those players using that tp bot were not great at doing so or the bot wasn't that well developed and got caught (more likely as it went unavailable pretty quickly), they still profited a lot over a short sample of time... but as I said previous, I wasn't discussing the issue from a TP bot aspect.. more the misuse/ exploitation of AFK farming /farm bots gamewide as a whole.. but yes once it goes from a farming issue to a trading post bot issue.. the game becomes a swamp.. something that's getting worse imo... hence why so many farms are appearing across maps. > > > > > > Then you don't understand how the TP works. You can't just pump tons of stuff in it you have to put things in it that are actually bought by other players. If quantity would be what matters, ppl wouldn't farm stuff for the TP but for normal ingame vendors to sell. That's not what is happening. > > Also, you still don't know if it is bots. Here, that's what most ppl do when they're standing around: > [https://youtu.be/ia4mr1LTlAE](https://youtu.be/ia4mr1LTlAE "https://youtu.be/ia4mr1LTlAE") > > And then they sell the t4 mats they've farmed and you still haven't even given me an example how afk farming t4 mats hurts lvl 80 players that in 9/10 cases do not sell t4 mats on the trading post, because they use more than they get dropped. > That's the reason why ppl are farming t4 mats in the first place. The price is high when many ppl want it and few offer it. That's a mere fact. Which means the majority of GW2 players wants to buy t4 and not sell it. Which means the majority profits from lower t4 prices. > > Also, the T5 mats and T6 mats are so much less worth because of Istan and SW and certain boxes you can buy there with currency. This has nothing to do with afk farming. The prices for t5 and t6 are so low that it isn't even worth anymore to upgrade the mats. Take a look at your logic.. I think its you not knowing how it works or again maybe refusing to highlight the issue. Bots don't care about the price only the quantity that they can farm and push out.. the supply and demand becomes a controllable source once the bots have farmed sufficiently long enough and are able to pump pump pump. Yes when supply outways demand players can buy for less.. they also sell for less. When the player behind the bots want to up scale the price the stock their ill gotten gains from their farms and buy up the cheap mats to artificially inflate the price northwards then they pump it all back in again .. simple sales 101. Once again the bot is the tool to gather and pump.. the player behind them chooses when and where.. but it all boils down to qty.. 1g/hr or 100g/hr is meaningless when they control the taps. Bottom line is you and I don't agree on the issue and that's fine by me. Some of us have been around the block a few times and have seen it all before, heck if your so intent on trying to post the videos to promote the issues we are talking about, only proves it is there and its out there for others to keep using until anet do something to combat it. YT has a lot of interesting videos on how to bot farm, tp bot etc.. some of us don't need them though to know when the issue is there in front of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > And then they sell the t4 mats they've farmed and you still haven't even given me an example how afk farming t4 mats hurts lvl 80 players that in 9/10 cases do not sell t4 mats on the trading post, because they use more than they get dropped. > > That's the reason why ppl are farming t4 mats in the first place. The price is high when many ppl want it and few offer it. That's a mere fact. Which means the majority of GW2 players wants to buy t4 and not sell it. Which means the majority profits from lower t4 prices. > > The flaw in your logic is right here. You pull a number like "9/10" out of the air and make a supposition about their needs and actions that is inaccurate. > I'm a pretty average player, I personally sell my t4 mats. If you drive the price lower with afk farming, then when I go to cash out by selling them at TP then I make less money. If you were actively playing the game then awesome....but you aren't. You're autoattacking, tabbing out and making sure you are only active enough to respond to a GM. > If Anet recognized this as a viable playstyle, then awesome. > But they don't. > If they did there would be no catapults in Lake Doric. > No the flaw is that you don't accept the fact that the very fact that the price is high is already proving that a high number of players is behaving the way I described. The number 9/10 doesn't come out of the air, it's the conclusion after looking at the price of an item. If it really was like you said, that the average player sells more t4 mats than they buy, then we wouldn't have these prices. The average player sells more T5 mats than he buys. And no I didn't hallucinate that, you can see that in the super low prices for them. And you won't accept that as an fact. Alsoyou don't seem to be able to differentiate between Anet not "promoting" some behavior and to outright "ban" people because of violating their ToS. There's a huge difference between these things. Anet doesn't like semi-afk farming like they don't like raid selling for ingame gold. None of that is a violation of their ToS and none of that should be reported via the report tool, which is there to report people that violated the ToS and not for people that are not playing the game how you would like them to. And as said before, there are already things in the game to limit afk farming, there are tools in the game where Anet devs check if there are macros or bots involved (report tool), there are systems in place to find exploits and those that used them (like when you could buy super cheap karma weapons and sell them for huge amounts of gold), there is "diminishing returns", which is in one of its implementations a very specific tool to make afk farming less attractive. [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns") We both are simply disagreeing on how many hackers/bot users/macro users are out there farming in comparisons to players that Alt Tab, with an AoE weapon skill as Auto attack, that watch a Netflix movie or whatever. And we simply disagree to what extend the economy as a whole gets affected by this. I have still not seen any proof whatsoever of any normal GW2 longterm player that had to sell his stuff for far less because of afk farming. Look at Riba and Istan and Halloween events , new legendary weapon releases, where many players sell stuff if they don't like the weapon and many buy stuff when it's an awesome new GS, balance patches, where ppl have to craft new gear with new stats. That's why ecto prices, T5, T6 mats are dropping and falling. These are the events that really hurt/benefit the normal players. A bit of a price drop for items that are annoying to farm, a price drop btw that is controlled by the ppl that afk themselves, since they change the location and mats that they farm based on how low the price drops, is nothing that massively affects the economy as a whole or most of the players in a negative way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynspottery.6529 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Oldirtbeard.9834" said: > Put down one of those aviator boxes and see if they inadvertently turn them selves into Afk planes diving into the dirt. Perrrrfect! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > And then they sell the t4 mats they've farmed and you still haven't even given me an example how afk farming t4 mats hurts lvl 80 players that in 9/10 cases do not sell t4 mats on the trading post, because they use more than they get dropped. > > > That's the reason why ppl are farming t4 mats in the first place. The price is high when many ppl want it and few offer it. That's a mere fact. Which means the majority of GW2 players wants to buy t4 and not sell it. Which means the majority profits from lower t4 prices. > > > > The flaw in your logic is right here. You pull a number like "9/10" out of the air and make a supposition about their needs and actions that is inaccurate. > > I'm a pretty average player, I personally sell my t4 mats. If you drive the price lower with afk farming, then when I go to cash out by selling them at TP then I make less money. If you were actively playing the game then awesome....but you aren't. You're autoattacking, tabbing out and making sure you are only active enough to respond to a GM. > > If Anet recognized this as a viable playstyle, then awesome. > > But they don't. > > If they did there would be no catapults in Lake Doric. > > > > No the flaw is that you don't accept the fact that the very fact that the price is high is already proving that a high number of players is behaving the way I described. The number 9/10 doesn't come out of the air, it's the conclusion after looking at the price of an item. > > If it really was like you said, that the average player sells more t4 mats than they buy, then we wouldn't have these prices. The average player sells more T5 mats than he buys. And no I didn't hallucinate that, you can see that in the super low prices for them. And you won't accept that as an fact. > > Alsoyou don't seem to be able to differentiate between Anet not "promoting" some behavior and to outright "ban" people because of violating their ToS. There's a huge difference between these things. Anet doesn't like semi-afk farming like they don't like raid selling for ingame gold. None of that is a violation of their ToS and none of that should be reported via the report tool, which is there to report people that violated the ToS and not for people that are not playing the game how you would like them to. > > And as said before, there are already things in the game to limit afk farming, there are tools in the game where Anet devs check if there are macros or bots involved (report tool), there are systems in place to find exploits and those that used them (like when you could buy super cheap karma weapons and sell them for huge amounts of gold), there is "diminishing returns", which is in one of its implementations a very specific tool to make afk farming less attractive. > [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns") > > We both are simply disagreeing on how many hackers/bot users/macro users are out there farming in comparisons to players that Alt Tab, with an AoE weapon skill as Auto attack, that watch a Netflix movie or whatever. > And we simply disagree to what extend the economy as a whole gets affected by this. I have still not seen any proof whatsoever of any normal GW2 longterm player that had to sell his stuff for far less because of afk farming. > > Look at Riba and Istan and Halloween events , new legendary weapon releases, where many players sell stuff if they don't like the weapon and many buy stuff when it's an awesome new GS, balance patches, where ppl have to craft new gear with new stats. That's why ecto prices, T5, T6 mats are dropping and falling. These are the events that really hurt/benefit the normal players. > > A bit of a price drop for items that are annoying to farm, a price drop btw that is controlled by the ppl that afk themselves, since they change the location and mats that they farm based on how low the price drops, is nothing that massively affects the economy as a whole or most of the players in a negative way. So prices drop when more people get materials faster from Istan, Halloween and Silverwastes, but if it's from another source then it doesnt happen. Gotcha... thanks for the illumination. Your logic is on point /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > And then they sell the t4 mats they've farmed and you still haven't even given me an example how afk farming t4 mats hurts lvl 80 players that in 9/10 cases do not sell t4 mats on the trading post, because they use more than they get dropped. > > > That's the reason why ppl are farming t4 mats in the first place. The price is high when many ppl want it and few offer it. That's a mere fact. Which means the majority of GW2 players wants to buy t4 and not sell it. Which means the majority profits from lower t4 prices. > > > > The flaw in your logic is right here. You pull a number like "9/10" out of the air and make a supposition about their needs and actions that is inaccurate. > > I'm a pretty average player, I personally sell my t4 mats. If you drive the price lower with afk farming, then when I go to cash out by selling them at TP then I make less money. If you were actively playing the game then awesome....but you aren't. You're autoattacking, tabbing out and making sure you are only active enough to respond to a GM. > > If Anet recognized this as a viable playstyle, then awesome. > > But they don't. > > If they did there would be no catapults in Lake Doric. > > > > No the flaw is that you don't accept the fact that the very fact that the price is high is already proving that a high number of players is behaving the way I described. The number 9/10 doesn't come out of the air, it's the conclusion after looking at the price of an item. > > If it really was like you said, that the average player sells more t4 mats than they buy, then we wouldn't have these prices. The average player sells more T5 mats than he buys. And no I didn't hallucinate that, you can see that in the super low prices for them. And you won't accept that as an fact. > > Alsoyou don't seem to be able to differentiate between Anet not "promoting" some behavior and to outright "ban" people because of violating their ToS. There's a huge difference between these things. Anet doesn't like semi-afk farming like they don't like raid selling for ingame gold. None of that is a violation of their ToS and none of that should be reported via the report tool, which is there to report people that violated the ToS and not for people that are not playing the game how you would like them to. > > And as said before, there are already things in the game to limit afk farming, there are tools in the game where Anet devs check if there are macros or bots involved (report tool), there are systems in place to find exploits and those that used them (like when you could buy super cheap karma weapons and sell them for huge amounts of gold), there is "diminishing returns", which is in one of its implementations a very specific tool to make afk farming less attractive. > [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns") > > We both are simply disagreeing on how many hackers/bot users/macro users are out there farming in comparisons to players that Alt Tab, with an AoE weapon skill as Auto attack, that watch a Netflix movie or whatever. > And we simply disagree to what extend the economy as a whole gets affected by this. I have still not seen any proof whatsoever of any normal GW2 longterm player that had to sell his stuff for far less because of afk farming. > > Look at Riba and Istan and Halloween events , new legendary weapon releases, where many players sell stuff if they don't like the weapon and many buy stuff when it's an awesome new GS, balance patches, where ppl have to craft new gear with new stats. That's why ecto prices, T5, T6 mats are dropping and falling. These are the events that really hurt/benefit the normal players. > > A bit of a price drop for items that are annoying to farm, a price drop btw that is controlled by the ppl that afk themselves, since they change the location and mats that they farm based on how low the price drops, is nothing that massively affects the economy as a whole or most of the players in a negative way. Pretty sure ANET already came out and officially posted in regards to AFK farming not being permitted especially when using macro's/ autoclickers to circumvent the timeout/logout process. When a player is sat 24/7 for months on end with precisely times skill clicks in order to exploit respawns it is against the Tos... but maybe ANET have shifted, which would not surprise me in the slightest (as their silence around these issues is deafening), which is why I am more inclined to think they just are not bothered about the mess the games is in right now with AFK farms, macros, bots, exploiters and Hackers.. too many players have brought it up over the past 12 months, too many farms have materialised in game and not enough action has been taken to dissuading the behaviour. So ANET make an official announcement., once and for all.. either its against Tos or it's ok for everyone to open up masses of accounts , place a plethora of AFK toons to farm the same spots 24/7/365, be able to utilise macros in order to precisely time the autoclick of a variety of skills and functions to draw in respawns and have our minions, turrets and pets do their thing while we go on vacation long term. Then make it clear the policy on using TP bots to sell the ill gotten gains throughout the game so we can all play market manipulation wars instead...... at least then everyone is on a level playing field, there is no argument and if players like myself dislike the official policy we can just leave the game behind and go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > And then they sell the t4 mats they've farmed and you still haven't even given me an example how afk farming t4 mats hurts lvl 80 players that in 9/10 cases do not sell t4 mats on the trading post, because they use more than they get dropped. > > > > That's the reason why ppl are farming t4 mats in the first place. The price is high when many ppl want it and few offer it. That's a mere fact. Which means the majority of GW2 players wants to buy t4 and not sell it. Which means the majority profits from lower t4 prices. > > > > > > The flaw in your logic is right here. You pull a number like "9/10" out of the air and make a supposition about their needs and actions that is inaccurate. > > > I'm a pretty average player, I personally sell my t4 mats. If you drive the price lower with afk farming, then when I go to cash out by selling them at TP then I make less money. If you were actively playing the game then awesome....but you aren't. You're autoattacking, tabbing out and making sure you are only active enough to respond to a GM. > > > If Anet recognized this as a viable playstyle, then awesome. > > > But they don't. > > > If they did there would be no catapults in Lake Doric. > > > > > > > No the flaw is that you don't accept the fact that the very fact that the price is high is already proving that a high number of players is behaving the way I described. The number 9/10 doesn't come out of the air, it's the conclusion after looking at the price of an item. > > > > If it really was like you said, that the average player sells more t4 mats than they buy, then we wouldn't have these prices. The average player sells more T5 mats than he buys. And no I didn't hallucinate that, you can see that in the super low prices for them. And you won't accept that as an fact. > > > > Alsoyou don't seem to be able to differentiate between Anet not "promoting" some behavior and to outright "ban" people because of violating their ToS. There's a huge difference between these things. Anet doesn't like semi-afk farming like they don't like raid selling for ingame gold. None of that is a violation of their ToS and none of that should be reported via the report tool, which is there to report people that violated the ToS and not for people that are not playing the game how you would like them to. > > > > And as said before, there are already things in the game to limit afk farming, there are tools in the game where Anet devs check if there are macros or bots involved (report tool), there are systems in place to find exploits and those that used them (like when you could buy super cheap karma weapons and sell them for huge amounts of gold), there is "diminishing returns", which is in one of its implementations a very specific tool to make afk farming less attractive. > > [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns") > > > > We both are simply disagreeing on how many hackers/bot users/macro users are out there farming in comparisons to players that Alt Tab, with an AoE weapon skill as Auto attack, that watch a Netflix movie or whatever. > > And we simply disagree to what extend the economy as a whole gets affected by this. I have still not seen any proof whatsoever of any normal GW2 longterm player that had to sell his stuff for far less because of afk farming. > > > > Look at Riba and Istan and Halloween events , new legendary weapon releases, where many players sell stuff if they don't like the weapon and many buy stuff when it's an awesome new GS, balance patches, where ppl have to craft new gear with new stats. That's why ecto prices, T5, T6 mats are dropping and falling. These are the events that really hurt/benefit the normal players. > > > > A bit of a price drop for items that are annoying to farm, a price drop btw that is controlled by the ppl that afk themselves, since they change the location and mats that they farm based on how low the price drops, is nothing that massively affects the economy as a whole or most of the players in a negative way. > > So prices drop when more people get materials faster from Istan, Halloween and Silverwastes, but if it's from another source then it doesnt happen. > Gotcha... thanks for the illumination. Your logic is on point > /s Wow, you just proved that you literally read half of it. >"A bit of a price drop for items that are annoying to farm, a price drop btw that is controlled by the ppl that afk themselves, since they change the location and mats that they farm based on how low the price drops, is nothing that massively affects the economy as a whole or most of the players in a negative way. " I literally said that prices drop, like over and over again in every single comment so far, you've even quoted it. But here's the other part you could've easily figured out for yourself. Look at the Lake Doric AFK leather farm from a while ago. Many ppl were super upset about this and also Anet did destroy it. Why? There are several reasons that applied to this leather farm that do not apply to ppl afk farming in some level maps: - The Leather farm was the one single best place in the game to farm a specific kind of mat. If you tried to farm there actively more than often afk ppl would ruin your experience. - The Leather farm dropped T5 and T6 leather. Why is this important? Because every player that plays lvl 80 content (which is the absolute majority of the playerbase) drops still huge amounts of leather from their daily content. Yes, still more ppl wanted to buy leather then sell it, since leather is used almost everywhere now, but there were, especially with T5 leather, also tons of ppl that wanted to sell their T5 leather they dropped from their daily lvl 80 content. This means the leather farm really did do what you claim the low level afk farmers do, they destroyed for still too many players the value of a common drop. The low level mat farmers: - do not occupy a spot that is unique in to the game, that drops magnitudes more of a pretty valuable resource, therefore they only occaisonaly disrupt maybe someone that needs to do a single heart or event in the area - The mats they drop are not mats an average player usually drops doing lvl 80 content. The mats these ppl farm are mats, so uncommonly dropped in lvl 80 content, that they're not only short on supply and therefore more valuable, they also need to be specifically farmed to get much of them. This means that in general only such players that also farm low level mats are negatively impacted and not the overwhelming majority of players. Which is the reason Anet doesn't really seem to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > And then they sell the t4 mats they've farmed and you still haven't even given me an example how afk farming t4 mats hurts lvl 80 players that in 9/10 cases do not sell t4 mats on the trading post, because they use more than they get dropped. > > > > That's the reason why ppl are farming t4 mats in the first place. The price is high when many ppl want it and few offer it. That's a mere fact. Which means the majority of GW2 players wants to buy t4 and not sell it. Which means the majority profits from lower t4 prices. > > > > > > The flaw in your logic is right here. You pull a number like "9/10" out of the air and make a supposition about their needs and actions that is inaccurate. > > > I'm a pretty average player, I personally sell my t4 mats. If you drive the price lower with afk farming, then when I go to cash out by selling them at TP then I make less money. If you were actively playing the game then awesome....but you aren't. You're autoattacking, tabbing out and making sure you are only active enough to respond to a GM. > > > If Anet recognized this as a viable playstyle, then awesome. > > > But they don't. > > > If they did there would be no catapults in Lake Doric. > > > > > > > No the flaw is that you don't accept the fact that the very fact that the price is high is already proving that a high number of players is behaving the way I described. The number 9/10 doesn't come out of the air, it's the conclusion after looking at the price of an item. > > > > If it really was like you said, that the average player sells more t4 mats than they buy, then we wouldn't have these prices. The average player sells more T5 mats than he buys. And no I didn't hallucinate that, you can see that in the super low prices for them. And you won't accept that as an fact. > > > > Alsoyou don't seem to be able to differentiate between Anet not "promoting" some behavior and to outright "ban" people because of violating their ToS. There's a huge difference between these things. Anet doesn't like semi-afk farming like they don't like raid selling for ingame gold. None of that is a violation of their ToS and none of that should be reported via the report tool, which is there to report people that violated the ToS and not for people that are not playing the game how you would like them to. > > > > And as said before, there are already things in the game to limit afk farming, there are tools in the game where Anet devs check if there are macros or bots involved (report tool), there are systems in place to find exploits and those that used them (like when you could buy super cheap karma weapons and sell them for huge amounts of gold), there is "diminishing returns", which is in one of its implementations a very specific tool to make afk farming less attractive. > > [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns") > > > > We both are simply disagreeing on how many hackers/bot users/macro users are out there farming in comparisons to players that Alt Tab, with an AoE weapon skill as Auto attack, that watch a Netflix movie or whatever. > > And we simply disagree to what extend the economy as a whole gets affected by this. I have still not seen any proof whatsoever of any normal GW2 longterm player that had to sell his stuff for far less because of afk farming. > > > > Look at Riba and Istan and Halloween events , new legendary weapon releases, where many players sell stuff if they don't like the weapon and many buy stuff when it's an awesome new GS, balance patches, where ppl have to craft new gear with new stats. That's why ecto prices, T5, T6 mats are dropping and falling. These are the events that really hurt/benefit the normal players. > > > > A bit of a price drop for items that are annoying to farm, a price drop btw that is controlled by the ppl that afk themselves, since they change the location and mats that they farm based on how low the price drops, is nothing that massively affects the economy as a whole or most of the players in a negative way. > > Pretty sure ANET already came out and officially posted in regards to AFK farming not being permitted especially when using macro's/ autoclickers to circumvent the timeout/logout process. When a player is sat 24/7 for months on end with precisely times skill clicks in order to exploit respawns it is against the Tos... but maybe ANET have shifted, which would not surprise me in the slightest (as their silence around these issues is deafening), which is why I am more inclined to think they just are not bothered about the mess the games is in right now with AFK farms, macros, bots, exploiters and Hackers.. too many players have brought it up over the past 12 months, too many farms have materialised in game and not enough action has been taken to dissuading the behaviour. > > So ANET make an official announcement., once and for all.. either its against Tos or it's ok for everyone to open up masses of accounts , place a plethora of AFK toons to farm the same spots 24/7/365, be able to utilise macros in order to precisely time the autoclick of a variety of skills and functions to draw in respawns and have our minions, turrets and pets do their thing while we go on vacation long term. Then make it clear the policy on using TP bots to sell the ill gotten gains throughout the game so we can all play market manipulation wars instead...... at least then everyone is on a level playing field, there is no argument and if players like myself dislike the official policy we can just leave the game behind and go elsewhere. Strictly, yes "AFK farming" is always against the ToS. Ppl here (including myself sometimes) just call it "AFK Farming". What I really mean when talking about this not being an issue, is "semi-afk farming". You can't "afk farm" unless you cheat the system that gets rid of afk ppl after sometime. And manually pressing the keyboard every few minutes means your no longer AFK and until the timer runs out that kicks AFK ppl, from the perspective of Anet, you're not "afk". So ever person that walks forwards and back again and then alt tabs is not considered afk and he's strictly not officially "afk farming" , since he returned for a brief moment back to the keyboard. Only when you use automated ways to make sure the afk timer doesn't kick you, only ppl that haven't returned in person to the keyboard and are still in the game after the afk time has run out and should've kicked them, only those are officially "Afk farming" which is against the ToS and can get you banned. And if ppl continuously use bots and macros and get reported over and over again and Anet doesn't do anything about it, even if it is all so obvious like you all say, there's only one reason: The time and resources needed to kick bots or implement another solution is not worth the effort. Which means Anet seems also to think that afk farmers are not that big of a deal for the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemnaid.4219 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Just walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 All I know is when I went to -actively- farm some tier 4 mats, I found I couldn't because afk players kill the mobs in no time. In other instances if there has been an active player there farming the same spot, I talk with him and we work together to share kill tags. Atm there are now so many afk farmers I just completely gave up doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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