Weaver and its new sword...

[Flarre.4850]

Only one real gap closer with 600 range/15 sec cd and ride the lightning if you play with dagger,all range classeS will kite you to death with this kind of set up.

Devs have a lot of work...

By the way scepter/focus and staff weaver are more entertaining.

[demonsmind.4327]

Ive played s/d weaver in both spvp and pve and i personally feel like its pretty strong. Running arc/water/weaver which feels like the good old cele ele days. And running pretty much zerker weaver with s/d which hits 5ks 6ks when you combine skills. Again I've played weaver for 5hrs so still to early to pass final judgements but i didnt feel underpowered i just had to play my ele at MUCH faster pace . So i could pretty much drown targets a flurry of atks. Could post builds i was using when i get home if anyone want to see.

[QQing.3089]

> @demonsmind.4327 said:

> Ive played s/d weaver in both spvp and pve and i personally feel like its pretty strong. Running arc/water/weaver which feels like the good old cele ele days. And running pretty much zerker weaver with s/d which hits 5ks 6ks when you combine skills. Again I've played weaver for 5hrs so still to early to pass final judgements but i didnt feel underpowered i just had to play my ele at MUCH faster pace . So i could pretty much drown targets a flurry of atks. Could post builds i was using when i get home if anyone want to see.

 

I'd like to see because I'm losing faith. The old d/d staying power is there but I'm not feeling the damage.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @demonsmind.4327 said:

> Ive played s/d weaver in both spvp and pve and i personally feel like its pretty strong. Running arc/water/weaver which feels like the good old cele ele days. And running pretty much zerker weaver with s/d which hits 5ks 6ks when you combine skills. Again I've played weaver for 5hrs so still to early to pass final judgements but i didnt feel underpowered i just had to play my ele at MUCH faster pace . So i could pretty much drown targets a flurry of atks. Could post builds i was using when i get home if anyone want to see.

 

Weaver isnt underpowered. Sword is. Staff Weaver can deal insane damage. Sword = A weapon that has dreadful direct damage, dreadful (compared to other condi classes) condi damage. Easily kited. One meh gap closer. The utilities are pretty meh as well, they feel like they need to be buffed a little bit, Barrier utility needs a BIG buff or a much, much shorter cool down

[demonsmind.4327]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @demonsmind.4327 said:

> > Ive played s/d weaver in both spvp and pve and i personally feel like its pretty strong. Running arc/water/weaver which feels like the good old cele ele days. And running pretty much zerker weaver with s/d which hits 5ks 6ks when you combine skills. Again I've played weaver for 5hrs so still to early to pass final judgements but i didnt feel underpowered i just had to play my ele at MUCH faster pace . So i could pretty much drown targets a flurry of atks. Could post builds i was using when i get home if anyone want to see.

>

> Weaver isnt underpowered. Sword is. Staff Weaver can deal insane damage. Sword = A weapon that has dreadful direct damage, dreadful (compared to other condi classes) condi damage. Easily kited. One meh gap closer. The utilities are pretty meh as well, they feel like they need to be buffed a little bit, Barrier utility needs a BIG buff or a much, much shorter cool down

 

No yeah i agree to more barrier, but from my playtime to me sword feels like a weapon that you have to merge abunch of skills together really fast to deal massive damage. Which to me seems like the reason why the damage looks low, because you can dish out like activate tons of skills really fast. Even the global 3s cd kinda works, as it kept me from swapping out of attunements which made do all kinds of skill combos. Again to me as long time d/d player sword just feels like you have play the piano alot faster as well as learn which skills work best together while remembering what each and every element combo does. Imo its gonna take time to get used to it, buuuut like i mentioned i havent played enough just early impressions.

[Sandwich.8173]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> >[...]The utilities are pretty meh as well, they feel like they need to be buffed a little bit, Barrier utility needs a BIG buff or a much, much shorter cool down.

 

Personally I dont feel like the utilites need any changes from what I did see while 1v1-ing and roaming for more than 5-10hours. At least 'Twist of Fate' and 'Unravel'. The barrier utility has been called useless more than enough by now :D

 

I just got myself full cele gear now and will report later again on how the tests went. IF there is a recognisable difference in the dmg etc. I will upload my old and new build together with some footage from the fights.

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Sandwich.8173 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > >[...]The utilities are pretty meh as well, they feel like they need to be buffed a little bit, Barrier utility needs a BIG buff or a much, much shorter cool down.

>

> Personally I dont feel like the utilites need any changes from what I did see while 1v1-ing and roaming for more than 5-10hours. At least 'Twist of Fate' and 'Unravel'. The barrier utility has been called useless more than enough by now :D

>

> I just got myself full cele gear now and will report later again on how the tests went. IF there is a recognisable difference in the dmg etc. I will upload my old and new build together with some footage from the fights.

>

>

 

In my opinion, Unravel should have been an F5 skill, 15second cool down and then given us a PROPER Utility. Unravel has basically 2 uses, used to actually get access to OF weapon skills without having to attunement swap, wait 4 seconds and attunmeent swap again. The other is for the Staff big damage combos and thats about it.

 

Twist of Fate is kinda similar, the recharge time is WAY too high, i could list skills that do the same thing for MUCH lower cool down, and as you have said the Barrier one is an absolute joke. Has to be among the WORST utility skills in the game.

 

This is what i would do:

 

Aquatic Stance: Remove the ICD on the Stance Heal. Other than that, its a decent skill. The best heal? No. The worst? No.

 

Stone Resonance - Increase Barrier per a tick to like 1k Base. Improve the amount you gain and how long it stays from Healing Power and Vitality. I would even say decrease the cool down to like 40seconds

 

Unravel: I have no idea for this, i still think it should be an F5 skill and replaced with a new utility.

 

Twist of Fate - Increase the Superspeed from 1 to 2seconds. Decrease cool down from 40 seconds to 25seconds. Even at that, not sure it would still be that great to take considering all the CC in the game.

 

Primordial Stance - This is the best one in my opinion, cool down is reasonable, conditions okay, though maybe have it so Chill is replaced with Torment, just so that we have access to a 3rd damaging condition.

 

Weave Self - Feels odd to have an Elite that is actually WORTH using. I would however like the Water part changed so that the healing affects myself as well. Such skills and traits annoy me when they have zero affect on me, yes the boon duration does but i would like the healing to affect me as well.

[The Great Al.2546]

Barrier scales so poorly with healing power that you may as well just take vitality and not bother training for what amounts to a totally useless mechanic.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"The Great Al.2546" said:

> Barrier scales so poorly with healing power that you may as well just take vitality and not bother training for what amounts to a totally useless mechanic.

 

Its not just that it scales SO badly, its the very small base amounts as well. Look at Scourge. It has single skills that would rival us using the Barrier Utility, The Sword Fire/Earth Barrier together :/

[demonsmind.4327]

> @QQing.3089 said:

> > @demonsmind.4327 said:

> > Ive played s/d weaver in both spvp and pve and i personally feel like its pretty strong. Running arc/water/weaver which feels like the good old cele ele days. And running pretty much zerker weaver with s/d which hits 5ks 6ks when you combine skills. Again I've played weaver for 5hrs so still to early to pass final judgements but i didnt feel underpowered i just had to play my ele at MUCH faster pace . So i could pretty much drown targets a flurry of atks. Could post builds i was using when i get home if anyone want to see.

>

> I'd like to see because I'm losing faith. The old d/d staying power is there but I'm not feeling the damage.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYncMA94idOAG5CM5iFWA7+K/lLzFbg8XFgIBcACAA-jJxHABf/AAA4EAIfZAV2fAA

Main build

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYnMMA94iFOAG5CM5ilGArILcDnC3V6O9oWIQGAihA-jJxHABA8AA++EAcdZAV2fAA

this one is kinda fun the Weave self and polaric leap is a nice opener I feel like, not to sure about the heal skill that's why I took armor of earth.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYncMA94iFOAG5CM5iFWAjIBcACA3X5vcZuYDk/qAA-jlSHQBA4EAsI1f+hyEB8AAAiSomoUAPKBH3+D3UPwQUSAA-w

My current solo pve/wvw setup don't have all the gear so I mixed and matched what I have so can use improvement over time as I get more gear.

 

 

[Sandwich.8173]

@"ArmageddonAsh.6430"

I see your point(s).

On some I totally agree with you, on some just for some Gamemodes.

 

I would personally like a better recharge rate on 'Twist of Fate' myself, although I'm afraid it would/could make the Weaver an 'unchatchable' class since I have been catching myself dodging 24/7 in 1v1's and hearing from my opponents:

'It's really hard to set up my (instert either CC chain, Spike Combination, land a Spike Skill) on you.'

I dont know that much about high level of PvP and if it would make sense to lower the recharge rate in PvP in general.

So far I've been pretty positively suprised of the skill in WvW. No matter if it was roaming, small-scale fighting or Zergfighting. You do need to adjust your movement to the sword weaver in general, but that is obvious^^

Plus I do also think that it is reasonable to say that two stunbreaks just from this sole skill are okay-ish. Look at Daredevil e.g. They had 3 dodges, two stunbreaks and a way to refill their stamina. It has become somewhat of the same for eles Two dodges and two Stunbreakes, which are also dodges - combining it with arcana for some vigor and you see yourself becoming a ballerina..

 

> Unravel: I have no idea for this, i still think it should be an F5 skill and replaced with a new utility.

 

I like this Idea! Having it as a F5 Skill would make sense, although it would also lower the required skill and skill-cap enormously imo.

 

Last but not least, everything we have discussed on the first page of this thread I will not restate, so we don't speak about the same stuff over and over again.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"Sandwich.8173"

 

I dunno, i just find other skills more useful as a stun break/damage avoidance ability, just like Stone Resonance. Just not quite good enough. I still think that the ammo system was forced onto them without the need. They could have EASILY had Stance skills act as normal skills, then maybe they would actually be more useful and viable as they would then need buffs, the reason they are just a little too under powered is because of the ammo system.

 

Take Bandits Defense Vs Twist of Fate

Bandits Defense Block attacks for 1 and 1/2 seconds. Breaks stun. If attack is blocked. Gain access to a knockdown attack. 15second cool down

Vs

Twist of Fate: Evade attacks 1second. Gain Superspeed for 1second, Breaks stun 40second cool down

 

Now, Twist of Fate you can use twice in 5seconds BUT you can only do that once every 65seconds. As the second charge ONLY starts its cool down once the first has finished. Is that really worth having such a long cool down? No its not. So in the time it takes both charges to come off cool down, lets say 65seconds - You could use Bandits Defense 4 times. I know which one i would take and that is Bandits Defense, i use it on my Thief and its an awesome ability, especially because its good cool down. I personally take Arcane Shield because i think its better than both Twist of fate and Stone Resonance. Same cool down as Twist of Fate but has the potential to block more abilities, it can also be useful to get certain abilities off such as heal or something blocking CC.

 

 

 

[narcx.3570]

> @Sandwich.8173 said:

 

> Im not going too much into detail here for now.

> My Weaver has the following offensive stats:

> 2,3k Power , 189,4% Crit Damage. 0 Condi Damage.

>

> NONE of the weavers single-hit skills display more than 2k Damage.

> Most of the swords skill on the well-known damaging attunements (Air & Fire) are not even dealing 1k damage.

> The new Elite Skill - which you have to set up for ~10sec and is really easy to dodge - deals 500 Damage non crit. Considering that the Mesmer has pretty much the same skill that easily crits up to 4k there HAS TO be something wrong.

> If there is nothing wrong with it, I do not know what to think anymore.

 

I think it's meant to be a hybrid weapon... Like old celestial d/d, just cycle through everything as fast as you can puking bleeds, burns, some direct dmg, and heals.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @narcx.3570 said:

> I think it's meant to be a hybrid weapon... Like old celestial d/d, just cycle through everything as fast as you can puking bleeds, burns, some direct dmg, and heals.

 

The problem is, you will be very rarely doing more than one thing at a time and depending on your build you will still have attunements that are much weaker than others. In hybrid/Condi Fire and Earth are the go to attunements but if you are Power (assuming that the auto attacks get the buff they need!) Air will be likely the go to, Water is basically go in use healing/evade go into another attunement. The healing from the auto attack as well as the damage it deals is worthless.

 

 

[Javelin.7960]

Sword weaver seems like a knife-edge, meta only combo, maybe that's why I'm struggling with it. I can see the potential in it, but it's engineer like in both the frantic pace of play, and one missed swap/skill blowing your entire rotation and leaving you dead. No room for error or deviation from optimal. Doesn't help that in PvE the new enemies are heavy on interrupt/knockdown/fear, and use them perfectly.

[Zintrothen.1056]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> It's not just the Sword. The utilities feel like they have been purposefully weakened to make them fit this unnecessary Ammo system. Take the Barrier one. It has a 50second recharge time and i am getting a MASSIVE 3.4k Shield!? Really!? The same goes for the traits, the GM traits are not worthy of being called GM traits. They are so weak compared to other classes GM traits.

 

IKR? 3.4k. And that decays one second after the final application. But it won't matter. A single condi bomb will do double that per tick.

[Selendile.9106]

Granted sword needs a little damage buff but it's not too bad.

 

Sword/dagger, in PvE, I've had no problem taking anything out in full vipers.

 

Earth/Fire provides A LOT of fields and blast finishers, plus the barrier dual attack. Swapping in air for leap finisher/gap closer, plasma strike, and single attuning for quantum strike (our highest direct damage ability) works for me.

 

Go in water when needed for #2 water field and blasting it with the Arcane heal keeps me alive VERY often.

 

[MikeL.8260]

I would test Weaver with a full Grieving set before judging the dmg output from Sword, I think it's plainly obvious that it's meant to be a Hybrid spec.

[Amethyst Lure.5624]

I think in terms of barrier, they are just really afraid of putting the value too high when it's not a main mechanic sort of like for Scourge's role. Consider how overpowered the mechanic could be for Weavers, if it scaled too much with other traits and above all, other effects from other characters. I am hoping for more iteration on those values for sure though.

 

 

[killahmayne.9518]

Here are my gripes with the Weaver.

 

1 - The attunement swap doesn't "flow" that well. I don't like the idea that you are locked in an attunement for 4 seconds I feel that it is too long. Weaver can pull off some interesting combos but it makes it impractical because of this long CD. I feel like 2.5 seconds would be more than fair.

 

2 - Sword's power scaling is fairly trash, it really lacks any skills that hit hard or give good burst. Against most people I'm hitting 2K-2.5K with my hardest hitting abilities, it's not very good imo.

 

3 - Not a big fan of any the stances. Serious, any of the stances. I guess the elite is OK for the temporary stat boosts but the barrier is pathetic. superspeed is meh and the primordial is kinda meh too.

 

4 - Sword could use a bit more mobility IMO, it's a 130 range weapon wielded by the squishiest class in the game. They won't stand a chance against warriors/guardians/thieves/engis/revs in melee blow for blow. And will get kited to death by most ranged/stealth classes. I think Fire 2 should have a 600 range, Earth 2 should burrow underground and pop out at a 450 range. I think Polaric Leap should be unblockable. Or if devs wanted to sacrifice this range on the sword at least make it more effective and stronger when skills do hit at 130 range.

 

5 - Sword autos too slow. Srs, make them 1/2 second. And make the air one faster because it is air (0.25) seconds. And perhaps the Earth one as is a 0.75 seconds as the slower attunement but the more effective auto.

 

 

I think it is a really good concept but the Sword Weaver feels really lackluster in general. I actually enjoyed playing it but in the end I couldn't play it in a serious environment. I'll admit I did power reaver only, maybe a cele reaver would be more effective.

[apharma.3741]

The sword auto attack is slow and clunky and really should have had the cast times reduced **like we all said in feedback**, right now I think even the spoiler sword auto from the final story mission completes its auto faster and does a lot more damage.

 

The barrier ele gets is so bad there should be a a distinct warning for the development team or person that let it get through to launch, not only is it far too low for the class with the absolute lowest base health and armour but it also scales very poorly. If you trait for barrier on dodge and use duel skills and also invest modestly into healing power you may just get some half decent barrier generation but the question is why? Why would I want to to got through the trouble of learning to play a complex melee focused specialisation when core D/D fire, water, arcane will keep permenant protection up and offer better damage overall?

 

The damage mods are absolutely crazy, ele didn’t need all of them and it made no sense to pack so many of them in and not make at least 2 of them compete.

[Zoid.2568]

Why would you go 0 con đi damage?

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @apharma.3741 said:

> The damage mods are absolutely crazy, ele didn’t need all of them and it made no sense to pack so many of them in and not make at least 2 of them compete.

 

I don't have any problem with the damage mods. What I have a problem with is that, somehow, they only really seem to benefit staff. It starkly highlights just how far ahead of every other Elementalist weapon staff is. When you can pile on Weaver's damage mod traits and still not be able to do competitive DPS with sword or scepter, something's seriously wrong with those weapons.

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"Agent Noun.7350" said:

> > @apharma.3741 said:

> > The damage mods are absolutely crazy, ele didn’t need all of them and it made no sense to pack so many of them in and not make at least 2 of them compete.

>

> I don't have any problem with the damage mods. What I have a problem with is that, somehow, they only really seem to benefit staff. It starkly highlights just how far ahead of every other Elementalist weapon staff is. When you can pile on Weaver's damage mod traits and still not be able to do competitive DPS with sword or scepter, something's seriously wrong with those weapons.

>

 

Can probably put D/F in that pile too but atm when you compare it to some damage numbers from other classes it’s hard to see a reason for bringing weaver regardless. The non competing damage mods between play styles means weaver gives a straight up no compromising damage boost to PvE ele both in condi and power which will only lead to nerfs down the line. Remember when ele was only just ahead of every other class yet they still absolutely gutted ele staff, air overload and most power builds till all that was left was condi D/F and power staff for large targets? It will happen again.

[Wolfric.9380]

I think weaver supports eles hybrid nature. We are celestial ^^.

Problem is: It does not help in PvP and Raids.... And in normal PvE its irrlevant. In WvW well numbers count more ... I see only roamain.