How to have fun in WvW?

whoknocks.4935 · March 23, 2018

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > Hey, I am a solo roamer guy, I play holosmith, spellbreaker and dragonhunter mainly.

> >

> > Lately I am not having fun anymore because I always find those stupid builds like perma stealth deadeye impossible to counter. I get them to 10% they go 5000 range in a couple of seconds resetting the battle and returning again oneshotting you.

> >

> > Same story for mirages, the damage is broken and I know can be avoided but they have too many ways to evade and escape and make the oneshot rotation again if the first time failed.

> > Fights with other roamers are not fun and engaging when there are always those profession around, which add you immediately even saying "git gud".

> >

> > That's really makes yourself even more mad that those profession have such a low risk high reward factor.

> >

> > I know dh spellbreaker and holo are easy to play as well, but they are far from being that cancer level of deadeye and mirage especially.

>

> Wanna kill Deadeyes? play with sound on. You can hear every time their 1 shot is being fired before you can see them.

> Daredevils and regular thieves you should have an easy time with on your DH.

>

> Mirages? oh boy. I dont know how DH or holo do against them, but my soulbeast build can do fairly well against them unless they are at my skill level ( which is very rare btw ). I think when playing against mirage youre FORCED to win the "mindgame". how do you do this? its not easy but i can try to explain.

>

> You know how "bad" players who think they can win play TOO aggressive? they pop all their cooldowns.. and you dodge most of their stuff. then they have nothing left to defend themselves, and you win.

>

> When i fight mirage, i usually have 2 strategies.

>

> 1, make them pop all their kitten while im basically playing 100 % defensive until they have popped a lot of their stuff, then proceed to go offensive. the ABSOLUTE KEY to this strategy... is that when YOU are playing offensively, you have to make them "afraid" of you. like i said, this is a mindgame. You want to make him scared because his WHOLE combo just failed, and now YOU have the upperhand. If you do this well, he will start to panick and make even more mistakes while you can proceed to play offensively but still keeping your head cool and not making mistakes.

>

> ( Bonus trick that can be used in both strategies is to "jump" around and act like hes got nothing on you and he has no chance. If you saved the /laugh or another emote with CTLR + C, you can do this every now and then doing the fight. This has the effect of EITHER making him mad or think that youre just bad, hence being overly confident, taking bad chances which you can punish him for, OR he will actually start to be afraid of you because you seemingly have the time to defend yourself well while still being able to make fun of him mid-fight. )

>

> 2, Is to make fun of him ( bonus trick ), time your defense just right, make him waste his dodges, and find the perfect time to use your important offensive skills. ( on DH this would be spear of justice, etc. )

> If youre able to land your important stuns consistently, this will inevitably make your opponent scared of you and increase your odds of winning substantially.

> Basically, being 50 % defensive and 50 % offensive. The important thing to this strategy is that you have to be very fluent.

>

> In 1v1's in GW2, combos and counters are Very important.. but the mindgame is too. Try not to make people think youre an easy target, unless youre planning on making them waste all their important skills for that very reason.

>

> EDIT:

> Learn the timing!! Mirages invulnerability on dodge lasts exactly 1 second i think. you need to learn how to time your CC's EXACTLY after its finished. same goes for other classes. like Holo potion invul thing, DH blocks, warrior blocks, ranger blocks, chrono blocks etc. you get the point. people usually arent ready for a stun or daze etc that lands just a couple of frames after their block or dodge is over. If you get really good at this, you can learn how to use your opponents blocks and dodges against them.

>

I can kill bad mirages and deadeyes easily with dh and holo. I spear pull into test of faith, knockback trueshot they are downed.

But against perma stealth ones, and really good mirages you only win if they want to be killed, a deadeye can stay 1500 range all the times, and with the new mobility it has, if you gap closer to him in a matter of seconds he is 1500 range again, so unless he makes a huge mistake, they can't be killed.

Saw one deadeye perma stealthing trolling 4 guys and they were unable to kill him while he was downing 1 in 3 shots, they ressed and he downed another.

Ok maybe they were terrible maybe not, but this still shows how broken those profession are.

They should remove the possibility to attack from stealth and making it only a defensive ability with no offense power. It is just a broken mechanic on those kind of builds.

With the upcoming nerfs my dragonhunter won't be touched, so probably it will become a solid class for solo roaming.

Already now it's way stronger in wve than in spvp, so it will become even more.

bigo.9037 · March 23, 2018

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > Hey, I am a solo roamer guy, I play holosmith, spellbreaker and dragonhunter mainly.

> > >

> > > Lately I am not having fun anymore because I always find those stupid builds like perma stealth deadeye impossible to counter. I get them to 10% they go 5000 range in a couple of seconds resetting the battle and returning again oneshotting you.

> > >

> > > Same story for mirages, the damage is broken and I know can be avoided but they have too many ways to evade and escape and make the oneshot rotation again if the first time failed.

> > > Fights with other roamers are not fun and engaging when there are always those profession around, which add you immediately even saying "git gud".

> > >

> > > That's really makes yourself even more mad that those profession have such a low risk high reward factor.

> > >

> > > I know dh spellbreaker and holo are easy to play as well, but they are far from being that cancer level of deadeye and mirage especially.

> >

> > Wanna kill Deadeyes? play with sound on. You can hear every time their 1 shot is being fired before you can see them.

> > Daredevils and regular thieves you should have an easy time with on your DH.

> >

> > Mirages? oh boy. I dont know how DH or holo do against them, but my soulbeast build can do fairly well against them unless they are at my skill level ( which is very rare btw ). I think when playing against mirage youre FORCED to win the "mindgame". how do you do this? its not easy but i can try to explain.

> >

> > You know how "bad" players who think they can win play TOO aggressive? they pop all their cooldowns.. and you dodge most of their stuff. then they have nothing left to defend themselves, and you win.

> >

> > When i fight mirage, i usually have 2 strategies.

> >

> > 1, make them pop all their kitten while im basically playing 100 % defensive until they have popped a lot of their stuff, then proceed to go offensive. the ABSOLUTE KEY to this strategy... is that when YOU are playing offensively, you have to make them "afraid" of you. like i said, this is a mindgame. You want to make him scared because his WHOLE combo just failed, and now YOU have the upperhand. If you do this well, he will start to panick and make even more mistakes while you can proceed to play offensively but still keeping your head cool and not making mistakes.

> >

> > ( Bonus trick that can be used in both strategies is to "jump" around and act like hes got nothing on you and he has no chance. If you saved the /laugh or another emote with CTLR + C, you can do this every now and then doing the fight. This has the effect of EITHER making him mad or think that youre just bad, hence being overly confident, taking bad chances which you can punish him for, OR he will actually start to be afraid of you because you seemingly have the time to defend yourself well while still being able to make fun of him mid-fight. )

> >

> > 2, Is to make fun of him ( bonus trick ), time your defense just right, make him waste his dodges, and find the perfect time to use your important offensive skills. ( on DH this would be spear of justice, etc. )

> > If youre able to land your important stuns consistently, this will inevitably make your opponent scared of you and increase your odds of winning substantially.

> > Basically, being 50 % defensive and 50 % offensive. The important thing to this strategy is that you have to be very fluent.

> >

> > In 1v1's in GW2, combos and counters are Very important.. but the mindgame is too. Try not to make people think youre an easy target, unless youre planning on making them waste all their important skills for that very reason.

> >

> > EDIT:

> > Learn the timing!! Mirages invulnerability on dodge lasts exactly 1 second i think. you need to learn how to time your CC's EXACTLY after its finished. same goes for other classes. like Holo potion invul thing, DH blocks, warrior blocks, ranger blocks, chrono blocks etc. you get the point. people usually arent ready for a stun or daze etc that lands just a couple of frames after their block or dodge is over. If you get really good at this, you can learn how to use your opponents blocks and dodges against them.

> >

>

> I can kill bad mirages and deadeyes easily with dh and holo. I spear pull into test of faith, knockback trueshot they are downed.

>

> But against perma stealth ones, and really good mirages you only win if they want to be killed, a deadeye can stay 1500 range all the times, and with the new mobility it has, if you gap closer to him in a matter of seconds he is 1500 range again, so unless he makes a huge mistake, they can't be killed.

>

> Saw one deadeye perma stealthing trolling 4 guys and they were unable to kill him while he was downing 1 in 3 shots, they ressed and he downed another.

> Ok maybe they were terrible maybe not, but this still shows how broken those profession are.

>

> They should remove the possibility to attack from stealth and making it only a defensive ability with no offense power. It is just a broken mechanic on those kind of builds.

>

> With the upcoming nerfs my dragonhunter won't be touched, so probably it will become a solid class for solo roaming.

>

> Already now it's way stronger in wve than in spvp, so it will become even more.

Yea i agree the Deadeyes are bullshit. Luckily they cant kill me.. but i cant do anything to them at ALL either cus they keep stealthing over and over. So i agree.

My soulbeast build will get stronger too cus of the nerfs to other classes. Thats why I love playing specs nobody else knows how to use properly :)))

Tzozef.9841 · March 23, 2018

> @"bLind.6278" said:

> I was dueling a Mesmer the other day in WvW, because I want to learn how to fight against them. He was playing power Chrono, which I struggle with on my SpB. I've beaten them before but it requires them to misplay a bit.

>

> Anyway, our first duel went okay, but he was able to outside and me with his mobility and ability to soft-reset fights (without cheesing the duel) the duel, and just whittled me down. The second fight he got me low enough to proc my EP passive, soft-reset the fight and then did about 18k damage to me in his opener while I was stunned. Took about 2-3 seconds start to finish.

>

> I just logged off. That sort of thing isn't fun to play against, and you don't learn anything from effectively being globaled. I've improved significantly over the last couple of months, still nowhere near what I would consider good, but I still understand that so much ofy gameplay and my opponents gameplay isn't them countering my abilities, it's just proccing passive defenses and then button mashing.

>

> I even see button mashing from platinum streamers. It's not that they can't counter play their opponents, they just don't need to anymore. Just spam your attacks until kitten dies.

>

> Roaming isn't unenjoyable because of getting ganked by zergs or blobs, that's always been a risk. It's not fun because combat in general is becoming spammy and unintuitive. Use whatever ability isn't on cooldown, get one lucky evade at the right time and you win.

This 100%.

It's sad to read what is being said in this thread, because it's all true for the most part.

However, when it comes to fighting these cheese builds, in pure 1v1 scenarios, they actually are not that bad, they are all doable.

HOWEVER they don't do this, all cheese build players usually run in pairs and groups and exploit cheese mechanics together, again as an unintuitive gank fest. Not only that, they tend to crowd in camps or areas where they are at a clear outnumber.

Very rarely I see a respectful player, with a cheese build engage in a 1v1 in an equal position.

Here are some examples of some pairings that are complete cancer:

One-Shot Weaver and Mesmer,

Revenant and Deadeye,

Scourge and Firebrand,

These three combos are used to exploit their already current cheese mechanics and to gank people at leisure usually.

Again the problem with roaming, is that these cheese cancer plays are just assassinations, thats why it's called ganking, there isn't really anymore FIGHTING anymore, it's not a fight, just a gank.

In group fights, Deadeyes and Scourges will just use other players to setup ruining group fights imo. The 1shotWeaver/Mesmer combo, allows the Weaver to kite and Mesmer to stun lock, both running high dmg modifiers to insta-down you.

Scourges tend to use Firebrands for constant support just for the purpose they can freely spam their conditions. Deadeyes on groups, Revenant or otherwise, just use their teammates to actually fight, take advantage of their boons and support, while they move around and pew without being actually engaged, they are sniping and stealthing, that's all they do.

I want roaming to be fun, but when I try run specs they are pure fighting and not cheese, it's frustrating and facing these type of mobs forces me to cheese back. I don't like that mentality.

The state of WvW and PvP is very unhealthy right now. Pre-Hot Core was a magical time, Colin Johansen clearly didn't know what he was doing and lacked foresight as a leader and game design.

Again in 1v1 Scenarios, it's doable, but it's sad a lot of people who play this game, play it just to exploit the cancer to it's fullest, they seem like they don't really care about "playing" just want easy button press to shit on.

A general list of cheese cancer builds to look out for:

- Condi Daredevils

- Burst stunlock Mirages/Chronomancers

- One Shot Weavers

- Deadeye snipers

- Scourges

- Condi Mirages

Which covers what this guy said here > @"coro.3176" said:

> As others have said, if you want to roam, you need to play a cheesy build.

>

> That means you either abuse:

>

> * stealth

> * 1-shot burst

> * mobility to reset the fight or run if it's going badly

> * condi spam

> * unkillable sustain / invulns / passives

>

> or most likely a combination of those.

>

> If you want to play a "normal" build ie. one that doesn't abuse any of those things, you'll always lose to good players that do.

That's at the top of my head, but in general fun classes to fight where u get classic roaming is most if not all the heavy armor professions, engineers, rangers, and core/reaper necros, and core ele/tempest/ and sustain weavers. I get an inkling of fun fights win or lose.

That's the thing, WE WANT TO FIGHT, even if we lose, not to play gank/cheese fest. There is a difference anet doesn't understand.

If I could suggest anything, is to get rid of food completely, sigil of energy, and Scholar runes, those are definitely effecting all builds and play experience in a negative way allowing exploitation.

Me and a lot of other players, want to love this game, because we did because at launch 2013-2014, but it just isn't the same, we got a heavy dose of that reality when HoT lauched with a mass Exodus of people leaving, and then returning with hopeful eyes (Path of Fire) like myself thinking of better days. But it's done, and unless Anet gives us direct insight into their balance team, who, how, and why. Then we can get somewhere fruitful.

As of now, it's evident what they care about, add more stuff so people buy the product, that's it. What the "stuff" does as consequence, is irrelevant after the fact. Gw2 is just a glorified gemstore at this point.