LFG tool abuse

[Eliavres.4910]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> > @"Eliavres.4910" said:

> > > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > > > > > I don't agree with pigeon holing Mesmer and Druid into these roles, but elitists are, well, elitist.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't think it's all about toxic elitism. When I see the low group dps when you have a damage dealer chrono in the group, I just think "dude, we would be better off and do more damage if you just played support." It's like having a swiss knife at hand when you want to open a bottle of wine but you are not using the corkscrew to open it. Instead you are using the blade and try to cut the cork until it eventually drives down the bottle. You still get to the wine, but it will have cork pieces in it.

> > > >

> > > > I think you missed my point.

> > > > The OPs problem would’ve not been an issue had they searched initially for a support chrono, if he was playing a now viable dps chrono build.

> > > > We search/list in lfg to fill roles, not just ‘chrono/Druid/dps’ if you’re a dps (no matter what profession) you search for what’s missing if you want to fill the roles.

> > >

> > > I think you missed the point.

> > > If you are playing a class that can do both role X and role Y but does one role better or at least one role is harder to fill/more important then people will expect you to fill that role.

> > > So if you're playing a chrono - that can both dps and support - people will expect you to play a support - because a DPS is easier to find.

> >

> > Ahh dude. I get what you mean but it shouldn't be like that, not anymore at least. It has been a month since the patch, I mean Jesus..PvE-wise power Chrono is tied with Holosmith at 33/34K average, come on....it's past time everyone understands this already. As someone who has been playing DPS Chrono for the last 3 weeks or so, I cannot begin to tell the amount of utter crap I've had to put up with in this little while..

> >

> > I mean, if a party is looking for a support chrono only it's one thing, but if a party is looking for a non specific DPS and a chrono joins to fill the damage role, they don't get to talk smack to him and are either obtuse or just plain stupid if they refuse. A DPS Chrono will only slow the party down if he's inexperienced and/or can't handle the rotation, other than that it's a good addition to the group and depending on the boss can give anything less than a proper guardian a run for his damage.

> >

> > Now, is the support variant more important to the party? OK I get that. Are people used to thinking of chronomancer as a support only spec? Sure. Is the DPS variant eating away at the pool of support chronos? ~~tough luck~~ Maybe, maybe not. The argument that freshening up the mesmer meta brought more people to the class can also be made.

> >

> > But now that we mesmers have the choice, are we allowed to make it and do proper damage just like any person that would bring their holosmith or whatever instead? **Whether people like it or not, they better believe it.**

>

> Man - it is like this. I play warrior. Warrior has decent dps specs now. Do you think any group will have me as anything other than BS?

Actually, yes. I've done T4 several times now with Spellbreakers, not only as support but as pure dps too, though that is rarer to be perfectly honest. But yeah one thing we agree on - people are stupid.

 

You know in theory it's very simple, a party puts up on LFG what/who they want, people read it and go from there. But in reality..well picture this - I join a party LF random DPS, as a DPS Chrono, to fill the DPS role. Party leader accepts and edits the LFG to remove the request for DPS, but still looking for support chrono. Then the following happens:

* some other DPS joins the party despite the LFG clearly stating WE DON'T NEED ANY, saying "hurr you already have a chrono" and then refusing to leave;

* kick attempts for politely refusing to switch to support;

* being talked **** at by ignorant toxic manchilds;

 

Let's just say that the last few weeks have been satisfying from a gameplay point of view, but not the least bit easy. Getting started has been a massive pain in the rear, but thankfully once we do very few don't recognize the builds' merit.

 

The fact is I played support chrono for months and months to the point of nausea, I've had plenty of spamming wells and quickness/alac/aegis sharing left and right..so I decided that enough is enough, I will only play support if I deem absolutely necessary. After all it's not like I'm shoving some terrible build down anyones' throat, DPS chrono is pretty damn good and it's not a few toxic mongs that think they know better than the folks over at dT/SC/metabattle that are going to change that, or ruin my fun. We supports have spoiled these brats senseless for years..but no more, at least not me.

 

If you really want to play a build other than BS then I strongly suggest support Spellbreaker, the extra boonstrip always helps relieve some pressure from the boon chrono and to be honest I think most parties stick to asking for BS because it's simpler for them, but will very likely accept a spellbreaker instead. Or hell, just go for pure DPS SpB, it's great atm.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Eliavres.4910" said:

> > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > > @"Eliavres.4910" said:

> > > > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > > > > > > I don't agree with pigeon holing Mesmer and Druid into these roles, but elitists are, well, elitist.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't think it's all about toxic elitism. When I see the low group dps when you have a damage dealer chrono in the group, I just think "dude, we would be better off and do more damage if you just played support." It's like having a swiss knife at hand when you want to open a bottle of wine but you are not using the corkscrew to open it. Instead you are using the blade and try to cut the cork until it eventually drives down the bottle. You still get to the wine, but it will have cork pieces in it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think you missed my point.

> > > > > The OPs problem would’ve not been an issue had they searched initially for a support chrono, if he was playing a now viable dps chrono build.

> > > > > We search/list in lfg to fill roles, not just ‘chrono/Druid/dps’ if you’re a dps (no matter what profession) you search for what’s missing if you want to fill the roles.

> > > >

> > > > I think you missed the point.

> > > > If you are playing a class that can do both role X and role Y but does one role better or at least one role is harder to fill/more important then people will expect you to fill that role.

> > > > So if you're playing a chrono - that can both dps and support - people will expect you to play a support - because a DPS is easier to find.

> > >

> > > Ahh dude. I get what you mean but it shouldn't be like that, not anymore at least. It has been a month since the patch, I mean Jesus..PvE-wise power Chrono is tied with Holosmith at 33/34K average, come on....it's past time everyone understands this already. As someone who has been playing DPS Chrono for the last 3 weeks or so, I cannot begin to tell the amount of utter crap I've had to put up with in this little while..

> > >

> > > I mean, if a party is looking for a support chrono only it's one thing, but if a party is looking for a non specific DPS and a chrono joins to fill the damage role, they don't get to talk smack to him and are either obtuse or just plain stupid if they refuse. A DPS Chrono will only slow the party down if he's inexperienced and/or can't handle the rotation, other than that it's a good addition to the group and depending on the boss can give anything less than a proper guardian a run for his damage.

> > >

> > > Now, is the support variant more important to the party? OK I get that. Are people used to thinking of chronomancer as a support only spec? Sure. Is the DPS variant eating away at the pool of support chronos? ~~tough luck~~ Maybe, maybe not. The argument that freshening up the mesmer meta brought more people to the class can also be made.

> > >

> > > But now that we mesmers have the choice, are we allowed to make it and do proper damage just like any person that would bring their holosmith or whatever instead? **Whether people like it or not, they better believe it.**

> >

> > Man - it is like this. I play warrior. Warrior has decent dps specs now. Do you think any group will have me as anything other than BS?

> Actually, yes. I've done T4 several times now with Spellbreakers, not only as support but as pure dps too, though that is rarer to be perfectly honest. But yeah one thing we agree on - people are stupid.

>

> You know in theory it's very simple, a party puts up on LFG what/who they want, people read it and go from there. But in reality..well picture this - I join a party LF random DPS, as a DPS Chrono, to fill the DPS role. Party leader accepts and edits the LFG to remove the request for DPS, but still looking for support chrono. Then the following happens:

> * some other DPS joins the party despite the LFG clearly stating WE DON'T NEED ANY, saying "hurr you already have a chrono" and then refusing to leave;

> * kick attempts for politely refusing to switch to support;

> * being talked **** at by ignorant toxic manchilds;

>

> Let's just say that the last few weeks have been satisfying from a gameplay point of view, but not the least bit easy. Getting started has been a massive pain in the rear, but thankfully once we do very few don't recognize the builds' merit.

>

> The fact is I played support chrono for months and months to the point of nausea, I've had plenty of spamming wells and quickness/alac/aegis sharing left and right..so I decided that enough is enough, I will only play support if I deem absolutely necessary. After all it's not like I'm shoving some terrible build down anyones' throat, DPS chrono is pretty kitten good and it's not a few toxic mongs that think they know better than the folks over at dT/SC/metabattle that are going to change that, or ruin my fun. We supports have spoiled these brats senseless for years..but no more, at least not me.

>

> If you really want to play a build other than BS then I strongly suggest support Spellbreaker, the extra boonstrip always helps relieve some pressure from the boon chrono and to be honest I think most parties stick to asking for BS because it's simpler for them, but will very likely accept a spellbreaker instead. Or hell, just go for pure DPS SpB, it's great atm.

 

This. All of this. I also played Support Chrono for Fractals until a few months ago when I swapped to Spellbreaker. Then patch hit improving not only Spellbreaker, but also it gave Chronos a real DPS spec.

If a player wants to play DPS, they should be able to, just because they happen to be a chrono does not mean they have to run the support build, just because some players are blindsided by the support build. If people read LFGs, it would be even better. Now just because there’s a Mesmer icon in the group, doesn’t mean they are there for support. If a group wants a support, they should specify. Just like if you see a ranger icon, and it’s a Soulbeast (I was in a group asking for a Druid, a DPS joined, and said our Soulbeast had to swap to Druid, because “that’s what every ranger should play in Fractals”, he was kicked.)

[plushiesoda.8150]

Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.

[Geisterlicht.6083]

Tbh if I join an lfg without requirements stuck at 75, I know that playing support chrono won't help much.

If I have 3 clueless dps in my team, I can increase their dmg from 2k to 3k and hope it works out, or just solocarry the dps part.

I definitely prefer the latter, since from my experience it is the faster way.

 

That being said, I ALWAYS respect the lfg. If a lfg states "lf chrono" they want boon support and nothing else. If it says lf dps/chrono I communicate to them what build I am going to play, so they know what to expect.

 

Even if it is a strong dps spec, please don't just join lfgs looking for "chrono" as a dps-chrono.

Else they would have written "lf dps".

[Yifang.8260]

Most of these posts are steered off topic, as someone mentioned the point of it was reporting LFG abuse, not how to play the classes or how not to! That is definitely wrong and my experience with reporting people using the game wrongly falls on deaf ears sadly. An example is hot join pvp with people just using it to get rewards rather than genuinely trying to play, while it hasn't broken any rules mechanically anyone with any sense knows games/sports are made for people to compete, not to farm rewards from dishonestly. The servers for this shameful activity are even called Rankfarm with instructions of how to exploit the system, somehow for years now they've been left alone. Another gripe are people going afk in pvp and clearly often it's deliberate, we can report them till the sun dies but again not seeing evidence of Anet doing anything to curb it.

 

They also should definitely improve the LFG system, allowing a class specific system. While it won't guarantee you find what you want at least it cuts down on many people who either ignore or just don't read your party requests, e.g LF Druid and anyother class but Druid shows up then they get upset you kick them… Happens a few times you get LFG suppressed thanks to a weak system.

 

Back to the original poster before the chat descended into talking about how to play fractals etc….. I fully agree they do not use a constructive system, they have a zero tolerance for even mildly heated wording, critique as well can earn infractions. Example someone writes a silly reply to a topic, I call them out on it with wasting forum space and get an infraction… Helps no one, just shows a police state administration, they're ready to suspend/warn people for breaking their code of conduct at the expense of doing actual policing that will improve the game such as investigating the accused (Or perhaps they do cos they operate privately to us we aren't seeing results?) Nevertheless we aren't filled with consumer confidence with how Anet presents themselves and their lack of defences against people trolling and exploiting the game numerous ways, it does appear they are more ready to punish the whistleblowers rather than those that are guilty.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"plushiesoda.8150" said:

>... since dps mesmer is a "new" thing most people as you say expect them to run a support build, something they have been doing for the last.... how old is HoT again? nvm... for a long while.

 

The problem is that there is a relatively small pool of players who play mesmer. Small compared to basically all classic damage dealer classes. So if a mesmer player decides to use his class for damage dealing, it's considered a waste of scarce resources.

 

Imagine an organisation that needs volunteer rocket scientists and people who fix minor IT problems. There are few rocket scientists but plenty of 1st level IT analysts on the market of volunteers. You don't want a rocket scientist in your team that spends his time with fixing minor computer issues because he "feels like doing it".

 

We wouldn't have this issue had Anet decided to focus on other classes to make them more viable as support giver instead of making the super powerful mesmer even more powerful. But I guess the developers have the freedom to do what they like most instead of what's necessary and I don't blame them for it. In my job, most of the time I can do things I like (hence I picked that profession) but I know there are things that need my attention that I don't like doing. And it's part of being professional to do the things you don't like because they are important.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"plushiesoda.8150" said:

> >... since dps mesmer is a "new" thing most people as you say expect them to run a support build, something they have been doing for the last.... how old is HoT again? nvm... for a long while.

>

> The problem is that there is a relatively small pool of players who play mesmer. Small compared to basically all classic damage dealer classes. So if a mesmer player decides to use his class for damage dealing, it's considered a waste of scarce resources.

>

> Imagine an organisation that needs volunteer rocket scientists and people who fix minor IT problems. There are few rocket scientists but plenty of 1st level IT analysts on the market of volunteers. You don't want a rocket scientist in your team that spends his time with fixing minor computer issues because he "feels like doing it".

>

> We wouldn't have this issue had Anet decided to focus on other classes to make them more viable as support giver instead of making the super powerful mesmer even more powerful. But I guess the developers have the freedom to do what they like most instead of what's necessary and I don't blame them for it. In my job, most of the time I can do things I like (hence I picked that profession) but I know there are things that need my attention that I don't like doing. And it's part of being professional to do the things you don't like because they are important.

 

 

I really think your analogy is completely off.

The situation is more akin to hiring people for two roles, and going schizo because one person you hire isn’t qualified/has the experience to do the work of the role he didn’t even apply for. What if your rocket scientist wanted to dip his toes into other realms? You have no say what that person does. It’s not your choice.

 

A group asks for a dps, a chrono should be able to join. If groups ask for multiple things, you should be able to join as a chrono and specify what role you are filling so the lfg can be updated.

 

 

>**So if a mesmer player decides to use his class for damage dealing, it's considered a waste of scarce resources.**

 

So, in essence you are saying, ‘chrono should play support because there’s not many who play it’, (that’s what scarce resources means, and it’s a waste to play a dps on a profession which has a support build)

Where did you pull this from? How do you know what is least played? Do you feel the same about players who play Soulbeast instead of Druid? I’ve not had a problem finding a support chrono at all, so unless you can actually see how many players play what profession and build, this is complete toss. It’s players thinking like this that made me shelf my support chrono from Fractals to play something that can easily swap between support and Dps (Spellbreaker, trait swap and weapon, done)

 

(Edited for clarity)

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"plushiesoda.8150" said:

> > >... since dps mesmer is a "new" thing most people as you say expect them to run a support build, something they have been doing for the last.... how old is HoT again? nvm... for a long while.

> >

> > The problem is that there is a relatively small pool of players who play mesmer. Small compared to basically all classic damage dealer classes. So if a mesmer player decides to use his class for damage dealing, it's considered a waste of scarce resources.

> >

> > Imagine an organisation that needs volunteer rocket scientists and people who fix minor IT problems. There are few rocket scientists but plenty of 1st level IT analysts on the market of volunteers. You don't want a rocket scientist in your team that spends his time with fixing minor computer issues because he "feels like doing it".

> >

> > We wouldn't have this issue had Anet decided to focus on other classes to make them more viable as support giver instead of making the super powerful mesmer even more powerful. But I guess the developers have the freedom to do what they like most instead of what's necessary and I don't blame them for it. In my job, most of the time I can do things I like (hence I picked that profession) but I know there are things that need my attention that I don't like doing. And it's part of being professional to do the things you don't like because they are important.

>

>

> I really think your analogy is completely off.

> The situation is more akin to hiring people for two roles, and going schizo because one person you hire isn’t qualified/has the experience to do the work of the role he didn’t even apply for. What if your rocket scientist wanted to dip his toes into other realms? You have no say what that person does. It’s not your choice.

>

> A group asks for a dps, a chrono should be able to join. If groups ask for multiple things, you should be able to join as a chrono and specify what role you are filling so the lfg can be updated.

>

> >So if a mesmer player decides to use his class for damage dealing, it's considered a waste of scarce resources.

>

> ‘chrono should play support because there’s not many who play it’, Where did you pull this fact from? I’ve not had a problem finding a support chrono at all, so unless you can actually see how many players play what profession and build, this is complete toss. It’s players thinking like this that made me shelf my support chrono from Fractals to play something that can easily swap between support and Dps (Spellbreaker, trait swap and weapon, done)

 

I never said it's ok or that I support how it is, I just described why I think the situation is like it is.

 

" You have no say what that person does. It’s not your choice."

 

Exactly

 

"‘chrono should play support because there’s not many who play it’, Where did you pull this fact from?"

 

I pulled this fact from nowhere, you made that up and act like I wrote this. You even put it in parenthesis to make it look like a quote. It is not, I never said that.

[Vinceman.4572]

Please stop discussing the pros and cons of a support vs. dps chrono and how it should have been handled in a group with requirements.

 

**This group was advertised with "Recs" and all those players were not able to handle fractal level 75. Every further discussion about anything else is useless in that special case.**

 

It wouldn't have made any difference at all if he had played support chrono, meta weaver or bearbow ranger. They still would have wiped over and over again because nobody in this group had a plan to manage the mechanics. If you guys pugged recommended fractals outside of a meta or static group more often you would have noticed that you have to hardcarry players through level 75 a lot. For example it's nothing special that all 4 players (mostly 2-3 players, no joke!) are targeted by the eye of Arkk and get feared away every single time. The same goes for orbs. They are never able to push them into the pillars in time so you have a second round and luckily you don't wipe after failing the first round like in 100CM. And the funny thing is, if you play the mechanics and know what you are doing you can carry easily.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Itz Jay.8941" said:

> > As for your problem, well I feel for you. You're only going to be providing aegis on domi/insp which is low dps. If the party doesn't wants you to run with domi/insp they should specify this. If they are incapable of using their special action key for aegis and evade and their usual evade, along with a druid sustaining then them well that is.... unfortunate?

>

> I think the source of the frustration of the other players was that OP didn't run support chrono. If you see a mesmer in the party when you look at the LFG, you assume it's a chrono. Then you join, and if you see it's a mirage, you know it's not support. But when you see it is indeed a chrono, you expect it to be support. If it turns out to be damage dealer, you are in fact disappointed. The same goes for ranger/druid. I once joined a group that had a druid as only ranger, so I assumed it's a healer. We all learned quickly that he was not playing healer at all.

>

> I actually left groups when I saw that the mesmer is playing mirage. It's because Anet made chrono so powerful that everybody expects you to play it with your mesmer, especially when you are the only mesmer in the group. If you go for damage dealer with a class whose support-role has been fostered by Anet for years, you cause bad vibes.

>

> Communication could help in these cases, but gamers are generally not recognized for their great communication skills. Gear check would help more I think.

 

Still tho, unless you're doing CM's, there's nothing in t4s that's scaled so difficult that you even need to worry about comp--let alone fractal 75.

 

The only real problem is that somebody who's running dps Druid or something else way off meta is quite often also somebody that will fail mechanics because they are most likely super inexperienced.

[Deimos.4263]

> @"democarplus.5179" said:

> besides the option to report someone by clicking on their name you can't tell Arena Net how or why you are reporting someone

The number-one issue with the reporting system in general. Add a small text area so we can leave a message to the GMs reviewing the case, so they have some idea what the issue is.

 

[Talindra.4958]

Had a few experience of players doing this.. ppl would spend their time to annoy others. We ended up doing cms and T4 with 4 men... No issue for us

[Talindra.4958]

Btw

Gw2 should consider LFG system like the party finder in ff14

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Party_Finder