Jinks.2057 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > DE damage is VERY VERY good > > > > > > > > Anyone who hasn't had great experiences with DE damage is doing it all wrong lol > > > > > > Have you done any dps golem tests? Maybe you could share your secrets because for me, with full buffs staff daredevil is coming in 4k ahead of rifle deadeye. And that is with 100% kneel uptime. Once you add any movement that number drops significantly. I'm happy to learn if you have a good way to make rifle dps a competitive weapon for high end pve content. > > > > I don't PvE nor do I care about the game mode. No game with a PvP aspect should ever be balanced around PvE. It breaks the games balance too severely as evidenced by the HoT debacle. > > > > Shooting another player DE rifles damage is VERY good. > > Ok, see my note at the top. This is a discussion about high end pve balance. I know some people in pvp or wvw like deadeye but when it comes to pve dps it seems to fall short. It is not wrong to enjoy the damage in pvp but it is however off topic in this thread. You have DD for high end PvE balance. Anet giving top DPS to a 1200-1500 range weapon is a horrible decision especially since you can support your party as well. Let it lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > DE damage is VERY VERY good > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who hasn't had great experiences with DE damage is doing it all wrong lol > > > > > > > > Have you done any dps golem tests? Maybe you could share your secrets because for me, with full buffs staff daredevil is coming in 4k ahead of rifle deadeye. And that is with 100% kneel uptime. Once you add any movement that number drops significantly. I'm happy to learn if you have a good way to make rifle dps a competitive weapon for high end pve content. > > > > > > I don't PvE nor do I care about the game mode. No game with a PvP aspect should ever be balanced around PvE. It breaks the games balance too severely as evidenced by the HoT debacle. > > > > > > Shooting another player DE rifles damage is VERY good. > > > > Ok, see my note at the top. This is a discussion about high end pve balance. I know some people in pvp or wvw like deadeye but when it comes to pve dps it seems to fall short. It is not wrong to enjoy the damage in pvp but it is however off topic in this thread. > > You have DD for high end PvE balance. Anet giving top DPS to a 1200-1500 range weapon is a horrible decision especially since you can support your party as well. > > Let it lie You said yourself that you don't play pve and have no intention to ever play it. Forgive me for not just accepting your opinion as fact on this topic. No disrespect meant but it is what it is. The way the buffing support that you mentioned works is within 240 range. This means that in pve content if you want to buff you will not be in 1300 range. You'll be in the melee group like every other spec. And dagger dagger is not good for this content because you have 100% revealed at all times in raids. Also, I don't need rifle to be top dps, but when rifle built for full damage with 100% uptime on kneel is doing 4-6k less than a staff daredevil, you will never be able to use it without being a hindrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaif.3518 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 For now, I agree that deadeye's rifle is not as damaging an option as others in high-end PvE. I reject the underlying assumption that it should be. I say "for now"...it's been a day. Let's be patient. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI.7485 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Its not as easy to play as for example a P/P thief where you just spam 3 all the time. One thing i learned pretty quick was that his 2 while kneeling is extremely powerful since you can permanently nail an enemy to the ground. > @Fipmip.7219 said: > Perhaps deadeye rifle could benefit from a certain level of cleave - that is having projectiles pierce through up to a certain number enemies en route to it's target. This would help reinforce the idea behind deadeye's mark too, as in it's a little hard to focus on a marked target when there are bodies in the way. a 15 - 20 percent damage buff would be nice too. > > Another idea would be to bring back a form of ricochet, but for the rifle. well his 2 does exactly that, pierce through targets and slow/immobilize them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @jaif.3518 said: > For now, I agree that deadeye's rifle is not as damaging an option as others in high-end PvE. I reject the underlying assumption that it should be. > > I say "for now"...it's been a day. Let's be patient. :-) Rooting us in place and lowering our damage significantly when not kneeling was their way of balancing our competitive damage. Those were the trade offs for our good damage. Well without good damage it is just all trade off and no upside. They need to either increase rifles damage to be competitive with staff or remove our draw backs as there are no benefits to warrant them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiki.7148 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > DE damage is VERY VERY good > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who hasn't had great experiences with DE damage is doing it all wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > Have you done any dps golem tests? Maybe you could share your secrets because for me, with full buffs staff daredevil is coming in 4k ahead of rifle deadeye. And that is with 100% kneel uptime. Once you add any movement that number drops significantly. I'm happy to learn if you have a good way to make rifle dps a competitive weapon for high end pve content. > > > > > > > > I don't PvE nor do I care about the game mode. No game with a PvP aspect should ever be balanced around PvE. It breaks the games balance too severely as evidenced by the HoT debacle. > > > > > > > > Shooting another player DE rifles damage is VERY good. > > > > > > Ok, see my note at the top. This is a discussion about high end pve balance. I know some people in pvp or wvw like deadeye but when it comes to pve dps it seems to fall short. It is not wrong to enjoy the damage in pvp but it is however off topic in this thread. > > > > You have DD for high end PvE balance. Anet giving top DPS to a 1200-1500 range weapon is a horrible decision especially since you can support your party as well. > > > > Let it lie > > You said yourself that you don't play pve and have no intention to ever play it. Forgive me for not just accepting your opinion as fact on this topic. No disrespect meant but it is what it is. The way the buffing support that you mentioned works is within 240 range. This means that in pve content if you want to buff you will not be in 1300 range. You'll be in the melee group like every other spec. And dagger dagger is not good for this content because you have 100% revealed at all times in raids. Also, I don't need rifle to be top dps, but when rifle built for full damage with 100% uptime on kneel is doing 4-6k less than a staff daredevil, you will never be able to use it without being a hindrance. Yeah, but he is kinda right. At least it is only a "you have a viable spec" suggestion. We over at Necromancer usually get "play a different profession" thrown at us, because not a single of our specs is endgame PvE viable... At least Thief got a WvW/PvP and PvE split on some of their stuff, Scourge got the nerfbat for a WvW only issue across all game modes. *sigh* But yeah, my friend plays Deadeye and he, too, thinks it needs some slight touches for PvE. And while I'm still salty that, yet again, only Scourge got the nerfbat in those last elite spec changes, and also that Revenant gt PvE only damage buffs and Scourge did not retain the old versions of Sandsh@des in PvE only, I can see that being stationary is less than optimal for PvE. So you propably should never use rifle. Although. it might be better during some Raid encounters / fractal bosses in PvE...but absolutely horrible in others (imagine T4 Volcanic as DE... *shudder*). The only way Anet will buff the damge of DE, however, is if they split it between the PvP modes and Pve. Didn't do it for Scourge, but then again Revenant got that, soo... chances that DE gets that is higher than Scourge being raid viable anytime soon. EDIT : Yeah, pretty sure DE does more damage than Scourge when played with D/P , and gets great boons and even boon sharing via mark (when traited), so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Shiki.7148 said: > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > > DE damage is VERY VERY good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who hasn't had great experiences with DE damage is doing it all wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you done any dps golem tests? Maybe you could share your secrets because for me, with full buffs staff daredevil is coming in 4k ahead of rifle deadeye. And that is with 100% kneel uptime. Once you add any movement that number drops significantly. I'm happy to learn if you have a good way to make rifle dps a competitive weapon for high end pve content. > > > > > > > > > > I don't PvE nor do I care about the game mode. No game with a PvP aspect should ever be balanced around PvE. It breaks the games balance too severely as evidenced by the HoT debacle. > > > > > > > > > > Shooting another player DE rifles damage is VERY good. > > > > > > > > Ok, see my note at the top. This is a discussion about high end pve balance. I know some people in pvp or wvw like deadeye but when it comes to pve dps it seems to fall short. It is not wrong to enjoy the damage in pvp but it is however off topic in this thread. > > > > > > You have DD for high end PvE balance. Anet giving top DPS to a 1200-1500 range weapon is a horrible decision especially since you can support your party as well. > > > > > > Let it lie > > > > You said yourself that you don't play pve and have no intention to ever play it. Forgive me for not just accepting your opinion as fact on this topic. No disrespect meant but it is what it is. The way the buffing support that you mentioned works is within 240 range. This means that in pve content if you want to buff you will not be in 1300 range. You'll be in the melee group like every other spec. And dagger dagger is not good for this content because you have 100% revealed at all times in raids. Also, I don't need rifle to be top dps, but when rifle built for full damage with 100% uptime on kneel is doing 4-6k less than a staff daredevil, you will never be able to use it without being a hindrance. > > Yeah, but he is kinda right. At least it is only a "you have a viable spec" suggestion. We over at Necromancer usually get "play a different profession" thrown at us, because not a single of our specs is endgame PvE viable... At least Thief got a WvW/PvP and PvE split on some of their stuff, Scourge got the nerfbat for a WvW only issue across all game modes. *sigh* > > But yeah, my friend plays Deadeye and he, too, thinks it needs some slight touches for PvE. And while I'm still salty that, yet again, only Scourge got the nerfbat in those last elite spec changes, and also that Revenant gt PvE only damage buffs and Scourge did not retain the old versions of Sandsh@des in PvE only, I can see that being stationary is less than optimal for PvE. So you propably should never use rifle. Although. it might be better during some Raid encounters / fractal bosses in PvE...but absolutely horrible in others (imagine T4 Volcanic as DE... *shudder*). The only way Anet will buff the damge of DE, however, is if they split it between the PvP modes and Pve. Didn't do it for Scourge, but then again Revenant got that, soo... chances that DE gets that is higher than Scourge being raid viable anytime soon. > > EDIT : Yeah, pretty sure DE does more damage than Scourge when played with D/P , and gets great boons and even boon sharing via mark (when traited), so... Rifle was also nerfed. However, I would like to avoid the revenge nerfs. Which is, we got hit so you must also. And you're right, they should be splitting the balance. I totally agree. But whether they do that or not, I truly feel that rifle deadeye should be competitive pve dps for the drawbacks we face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiki.7148 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > @Shiki.7148 said: > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > > > DE damage is VERY VERY good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who hasn't had great experiences with DE damage is doing it all wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you done any dps golem tests? Maybe you could share your secrets because for me, with full buffs staff daredevil is coming in 4k ahead of rifle deadeye. And that is with 100% kneel uptime. Once you add any movement that number drops significantly. I'm happy to learn if you have a good way to make rifle dps a competitive weapon for high end pve content. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't PvE nor do I care about the game mode. No game with a PvP aspect should ever be balanced around PvE. It breaks the games balance too severely as evidenced by the HoT debacle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Shooting another player DE rifles damage is VERY good. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, see my note at the top. This is a discussion about high end pve balance. I know some people in pvp or wvw like deadeye but when it comes to pve dps it seems to fall short. It is not wrong to enjoy the damage in pvp but it is however off topic in this thread. > > > > > > > > You have DD for high end PvE balance. Anet giving top DPS to a 1200-1500 range weapon is a horrible decision especially since you can support your party as well. > > > > > > > > Let it lie > > > > > > You said yourself that you don't play pve and have no intention to ever play it. Forgive me for not just accepting your opinion as fact on this topic. No disrespect meant but it is what it is. The way the buffing support that you mentioned works is within 240 range. This means that in pve content if you want to buff you will not be in 1300 range. You'll be in the melee group like every other spec. And dagger dagger is not good for this content because you have 100% revealed at all times in raids. Also, I don't need rifle to be top dps, but when rifle built for full damage with 100% uptime on kneel is doing 4-6k less than a staff daredevil, you will never be able to use it without being a hindrance. > > > > Yeah, but he is kinda right. At least it is only a "you have a viable spec" suggestion. We over at Necromancer usually get "play a different profession" thrown at us, because not a single of our specs is endgame PvE viable... At least Thief got a WvW/PvP and PvE split on some of their stuff, Scourge got the nerfbat for a WvW only issue across all game modes. *sigh* > > > > But yeah, my friend plays Deadeye and he, too, thinks it needs some slight touches for PvE. And while I'm still salty that, yet again, only Scourge got the nerfbat in those last elite spec changes, and also that Revenant gt PvE only damage buffs and Scourge did not retain the old versions of Sandsh@des in PvE only, I can see that being stationary is less than optimal for PvE. So you propably should never use rifle. Although. it might be better during some Raid encounters / fractal bosses in PvE...but absolutely horrible in others (imagine T4 Volcanic as DE... *shudder*). The only way Anet will buff the damge of DE, however, is if they split it between the PvP modes and Pve. Didn't do it for Scourge, but then again Revenant got that, soo... chances that DE gets that is higher than Scourge being raid viable anytime soon. > > > > EDIT : Yeah, pretty sure DE does more damage than Scourge when played with D/P , and gets great boons and even boon sharing via mark (when traited), so... > > Rifle was also nerfed. However, I would like to avoid the revenge nerfs. Which is, we got hit so you must also. And you're right, they should be splitting the balance. I totally agree. But whether they do that or not, I truly feel that rifle deadeye should be competitive pve dps for the drawbacks we face. Agreed. My opinion is "buffs are almost always better than nerfs". I do not want other classes brought down to Necromancer, I want Necro to be up there with them. The PvE dps of Rifle really should be higher though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > DE damage is VERY VERY good > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who hasn't had great experiences with DE damage is doing it all wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > Have you done any dps golem tests? Maybe you could share your secrets because for me, with full buffs staff daredevil is coming in 4k ahead of rifle deadeye. And that is with 100% kneel uptime. Once you add any movement that number drops significantly. I'm happy to learn if you have a good way to make rifle dps a competitive weapon for high end pve content. > > > > > > > > I don't PvE nor do I care about the game mode. No game with a PvP aspect should ever be balanced around PvE. It breaks the games balance too severely as evidenced by the HoT debacle. > > > > > > > > Shooting another player DE rifles damage is VERY good. > > > > > > Ok, see my note at the top. This is a discussion about high end pve balance. I know some people in pvp or wvw like deadeye but when it comes to pve dps it seems to fall short. It is not wrong to enjoy the damage in pvp but it is however off topic in this thread. > > > > You have DD for high end PvE balance. Anet giving top DPS to a 1200-1500 range weapon is a horrible decision especially since you can support your party as well. > > > > Let it lie > > You said yourself that you don't play pve and have no intention to ever play it. Forgive me for not just accepting your opinion as fact on this topic. No disrespect meant but it is what it is. The way the buffing support that you mentioned works is within 240 range. This means that in pve content if you want to buff you will not be in 1300 range. You'll be in the melee group like every other spec. And dagger dagger is not good for this content because you have 100% revealed at all times in raids. Also, I don't need rifle to be top dps, but when rifle built for full damage with 100% uptime on kneel is doing 4-6k less than a staff daredevil, you will never be able to use it without being a hindrance. Have you tried using a melee weapon with DE? There's some really stupid numbers I've been seeing with Melee DE. Also changes made to PvE usually make it into WvW/PvP. DE is fine as it atm until we all find the best builds possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > > DE damage is VERY VERY good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who hasn't had great experiences with DE damage is doing it all wrong lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you done any dps golem tests? Maybe you could share your secrets because for me, with full buffs staff daredevil is coming in 4k ahead of rifle deadeye. And that is with 100% kneel uptime. Once you add any movement that number drops significantly. I'm happy to learn if you have a good way to make rifle dps a competitive weapon for high end pve content. > > > > > > > > > > I don't PvE nor do I care about the game mode. No game with a PvP aspect should ever be balanced around PvE. It breaks the games balance too severely as evidenced by the HoT debacle. > > > > > > > > > > Shooting another player DE rifles damage is VERY good. > > > > > > > > Ok, see my note at the top. This is a discussion about high end pve balance. I know some people in pvp or wvw like deadeye but when it comes to pve dps it seems to fall short. It is not wrong to enjoy the damage in pvp but it is however off topic in this thread. > > > > > > You have DD for high end PvE balance. Anet giving top DPS to a 1200-1500 range weapon is a horrible decision especially since you can support your party as well. > > > > > > Let it lie > > > > You said yourself that you don't play pve and have no intention to ever play it. Forgive me for not just accepting your opinion as fact on this topic. No disrespect meant but it is what it is. The way the buffing support that you mentioned works is within 240 range. This means that in pve content if you want to buff you will not be in 1300 range. You'll be in the melee group like every other spec. And dagger dagger is not good for this content because you have 100% revealed at all times in raids. Also, I don't need rifle to be top dps, but when rifle built for full damage with 100% uptime on kneel is doing 4-6k less than a staff daredevil, you will never be able to use it without being a hindrance. > > Have you tried using a melee weapon with DE? There's some really stupid numbers I've been seeing with Melee DE. > > Also changes made to PvE usually make it into WvW/PvP. DE is fine as it atm until we all find the best builds possible I have tried the melee weapons. Those (dagger/dagger) are about 1kish less damage than staff daredevil while being able to remove revealed (you can't in raids). If I wanted to play melee I would go daredevil and not sacrifice the mobility and steal mechanics. I want rifle to be competitive in a high end pve environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaif.3518 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > Rooting us in place and lowering our damage significantly when not kneeling was their way of balancing our competitive damage. Those were the trade offs for our good damage. **Burst** damage. You keep making the underlying assumption that it should be a high-end PvE weapon along with a high-end PvP/WvW weapon. I disagree strenuously. I don't want to see the focus on burst damage replaced. I think ideally every weapon should have a niche in GW2, but that's different than each weapon filling all niches. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @jaif.3518 said: > > Rooting us in place and lowering our damage significantly when not kneeling was their way of balancing our competitive damage. Those were the trade offs for our good damage. > > **Burst** damage. You keep making the underlying assumption that it should be a high-end PvE weapon along with a high-end PvP/WvW weapon. I disagree strenuously. I don't want to see the focus on burst damage replaced. > > I think ideally every weapon should have a niche in GW2, but that's different than each weapon filling all niches. > > -Jeff > > > > > > > > Actually, I need to correct you there. I don't care what the weapon does in wvw and pvp. I want it to have the overall dps that matches the draw backs. I want to go to a dummy and see the dps match a staff daredevil. I want to go to my raid with my rifle and not hold my group back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Hide.6345 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I kind of noticed the ini starve, and #1 skill lacking some damage. You know what though? I don't care if those are issues with it. Would I like them to be fixed somewhat? Sure. I won't be switching to DD though because of it. I have always disliked using Staff and D/D on DD which is why I never used those weapon sets. I have always used P/P which is why I am sticking to it. Party needs be damned if my enjoyment gets ruined because they don't want DE. I am tired of playing to the parties needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coso.9173 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 if it's only good at burst damage what good is it in PVE? i can burn through trash faster with p/p or staff and wich much more mobility. and for bosses burst isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI.7485 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 bosses are indeed a problem, especially those where you need mobility to dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaif.3518 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 There is burst damage, and overall damage. A weapon shouldn't have both. I want rifle to be a ranged burst weapon. I like that concept. Your post is another way of saying "nerf this in PvP so it can be used in PvE". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @"Drawing Guy.3701" said: > I've been trying to roll Deadeye. > > Deadeye feels very nice on trash - Mark resetting with quickness is beautiful. However it feels very lack-luster on bosses. Mark has a time-out and it resets on re-application. This puts the damage modifiers at about half on average of a melee Daredevil when traited for 5 stacks, and still a good bit less when 7 stack despite having a slightly higher potential. This, of course, comes at a survivability loss. But if you don't care about having min-max DPS, Mark does allow you to stay at ranged with P/P or Rifle, and you don't really need to dodge much when farther away. > > The stolen abilities also feel lack-luster for me. Traditional stolen skills have the option to give me interrupts or ecto, a much stronger buff drop. That coupled with the loss of any stolen skills on Mark reset (be it mob death, time out, downed, or reapplication), means it just needs to be spammed with little consideration for tactics. Outside of the Fire for Effect trait, stolen skills feel ineffective and flavorless. > > Rifle is definitely not a DPS tool. With the nerf of R3, the only real burst comes from Kneeling R4 after high malice stacks (it is junk at low stacks). In all cases the skills are extremely expensive, leaving you stuck with auto-attack most of the time. You can get some fun damage numbers from R4 at 7 Malice, but at 6 initiative, that's not getting spammed. Add in that Kneel has the double kicker of costing you a weapon skill along with rooting you in place in a way that is clunky to get out of, and the weapon set overall feels clunky. I still hope they allow movement to break Kneel. I also feel that R3 can afford to come down to 3 initiative and R4 could go 5 ini, though in PvE only. Auto attack I feel needs ~20% damage buff. I'm OK with a slow attack rate if they boost the damage. > > Ultimately, anywhere you have targets dying relatively fast, Deadeye is quite strong as there are a ton of traits that allow Mark to be a good condi and/or damage burst. It won't earn Thief a place in WvW zerg meta as the stolen skills are RNG and not long enough duration to be support and Might stacking is not enough, and it won't fit in raids as Daredevil has much better sustained DPS, but I can see it working in Open World PvE, PvP, and WvW roaming. There are 3 things I hope for: > > - The work on Rifle, making Kneel less clunky and adjusting the DPS/ini costs > - Either allow Malice to stack faster, or keep Malice stacks if reapplied before time-out. > - Make stolen skills last longer and persist until the next Mark. Stolen skills with no mark could be the current base duration with the first tick of Malice scaling from there. I like saving a stolen skill for strategic use, and balancing the need of using a new Steal/Mark vs saving that skill. The stolen skills are not RNG against other players =-=; they are very much static. There's a table on the wiki. Though I can understand why they don't want Deadeye's to hold onto stolen skills when mark is changed or ends. They are very powerful, and can easily make Deadeye bullshit if he's able to just do what ever he pleases with his stolen skill. The one in the chamber is where the RNG comes from, and even then just about all of the stolen skills for deadeye are REALLY good. Except for steal accuracy if you're not having problems with landing critical hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @jaif.3518 said: > There is burst damage, and overall damage. A weapon shouldn't have both. > > I want rifle to be a ranged burst weapon. I like that concept. Your post is another way of saying "nerf this in PvP so it can be used in PvE". Absolutely not, I don't want the pve changes I want to affect pvp at all. Let me say this one more time. Currently, while having 100% kneel time (which WONT happen in a raid encounter) deadeye rifle is about 4k under staff daredevil. So... If you take a full damage rifle build, once you start moving it drops even MORE. Now if you build deadeye for boon share you lose even MORE dps. That is not ok for people who were buying the expansion to raid or run fractals with a rifle deadeye. If we are losing almost all of our mobility then we should be doing more damage than staff daredevil. The reason I say more damage is because once you add movement into the equation things should start to even out a bit. Edit: and one more thing, we don't have aoe on rifle so we should excel at single target damage. Staff daredevil has both single target and aoe, which is fine. However, we should do more DPS (not talking about burst because they are in fact different) in a single target environment. That's what balance is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth.7384 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @jaif.3518 said: > There is burst damage, and overall damage. A weapon shouldn't have both. > > I want rifle to be a ranged burst weapon. I like that concept. Your post is another way of saying "nerf this in PvP so it can be used in PvE". Im sure there are classes good at both. Also D/E sniper makes the trade-off by lacking survivability especially against mobs. What about this logic: a profession should firstly be good at PvE before anything else and the rifle definately isnt. Im thinking the sustain dps should be above average with also above average burst. How to achieve this? I think 3-round burst should have a reduced initiative cost (maybe even double tap). Three sounds about right if it isnt the highest dpsing ability in his arsenal. I also think that it should be 3-round burst/double tap that gains damage with malice rather than deaths judgement, being the sustained dmg skill, its more suited to that end. Kneeling could be made into an unoccupied F3 skill but only when you have a rifle equipped, this would free up a skill slot. I would then make so Deaths Judgement, currently skill 4 NO-LONGER require kneeling. Instead kneeling would give it a dmg boost, bringing the the burst dmg to where it "should" be. The kneeling version of the skill could be called Assassin's Judgement. I think having a "burst" skill increase overtime is counter-intuitive maybe damage could increase with less enemy health. I would also make this skill cost 4 initiative and fire once every 1.2-1.5s to give it a sniper feel and balance the damage around that. Unload takes 1.75s to complete for comparison. Deaths retreat would take up the spot that kneeling did previously. It can do exactly the same thing when cloaked, but if one wanted it to do something different, maybe it could put up a smoke field when used kneeling. I think reduce the initiative cost to 4 when standing to allow more usages, keep it a 5 initiative when kneeling though if it puts up a smoke field. I think malice stacks should build up faster when KNEELING, rather than in combat, and it should build up faster than it does now, maybe 100% faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saraneth.6021 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @Kreed.2768 said: > I had the same experience. I was doing okay with the rifle. At first I thought I just needed to get used to l playstyle of the weapon, but once I swapped to my pistols, things just got so much better all-around. Be careful with saying that. They will end up nerfing p/p to try make us use rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaif.3518 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > Im sure there are classes good at both. I said weapon, not class. I firmly believe that all classes should have niches in all forms of play. But making a weapon a burst damage weapon and a sustain weapon, both from the best range in the game, is a bit much IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI.7485 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Another thing that could help with area damage would be shadow flare, a reduced cooldown would help a lot on it. the time in which you can swap with it is so short that i would rather use shadowstep instead. why is it even another shadowstep skill in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @jaif.3518 said: > > Im sure there are classes good at both. > > I said weapon, not class. I firmly believe that all classes should have niches in all forms of play. But making a weapon a burst damage weapon and a sustain weapon, both from the best range in the game, is a bit much IMO. With the lack of aoe I think having competitive sustained dps with a staff is fair. Especially with the lack of mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > @jaif.3518 said: > > There is burst damage, and overall damage. A weapon shouldn't have both. > > > > I want rifle to be a ranged burst weapon. I like that concept. Your post is another way of saying "nerf this in PvP so it can be used in PvE". > > Absolutely not, I don't want the pve changes I want to affect pvp at all. Let me say this one more time. Currently, while having 100% kneel time (which WONT happen in a raid encounter) deadeye rifle is about 4k under staff daredevil. So... If you take a full damage rifle build, once you start moving it drops even MORE. Now if you build deadeye for boon share you lose even MORE dps. That is not ok for people who were buying the expansion to raid or run fractals with a rifle deadeye. If we are losing almost all of our mobility then we should be doing more damage than staff daredevil. The reason I say more damage is because once you add movement into the equation things should start to even out a bit. > > Edit: and one more thing, we don't have aoe on rifle so we should excel at single target damage. Staff daredevil has both single target and aoe, which is fine. However, we should do more DPS (not talking about burst because they are in fact different) in a single target environment. That's what balance is. We don't know what the next collection of Raids will be like. The HoT raids make strong use of the elite specs in order to complete them. Chances are, the new raids will encourage using the new elite specs. Except you'll probably still have the mandatory Chrono and Druid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said: > > > @jaif.3518 said: > > > There is burst damage, and overall damage. A weapon shouldn't have both. > > > > > > I want rifle to be a ranged burst weapon. I like that concept. Your post is another way of saying "nerf this in PvP so it can be used in PvE". > > > > Absolutely not, I don't want the pve changes I want to affect pvp at all. Let me say this one more time. Currently, while having 100% kneel time (which WONT happen in a raid encounter) deadeye rifle is about 4k under staff daredevil. So... If you take a full damage rifle build, once you start moving it drops even MORE. Now if you build deadeye for boon share you lose even MORE dps. That is not ok for people who were buying the expansion to raid or run fractals with a rifle deadeye. If we are losing almost all of our mobility then we should be doing more damage than staff daredevil. The reason I say more damage is because once you add movement into the equation things should start to even out a bit. > > > > Edit: and one more thing, we don't have aoe on rifle so we should excel at single target damage. Staff daredevil has both single target and aoe, which is fine. However, we should do more DPS (not talking about burst because they are in fact different) in a single target environment. That's what balance is. > > We don't know what the next collection of Raids will be like. The HoT raids make strong use of the elite specs in order to complete them. Chances are, the new raids will encourage using the new elite specs. Except you'll probably still have the mandatory Chrono and Druid... I would really like that! We shall see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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