Deadeye damage

[caveman.5840]

as it is now it needs something more considering how much mobility/utility u give up ... I mean u can not even get any of the benefits from steal/mark like swiftness from thrill of crime or stealth from hidden thief with out haveing a target

[Amante.8109]

It's hard to be competitive in PvE with a garbage auto attack. Guess what Rifle has?

[Jana.6831]

There's competition in PvE?

[totallyTim.9041]

I really wanted to enjoy the rifle. I always carried it with me throughout the story and tried my best to use it when ever I could without compromising my safety. As a result I played a D/P Deadeye over 90% of the time. It did loads more damage, hit 2 targets at once and it has access to almost perma blind. I tried reconfiguring my build, trying to only use it as an executioner by only using skill 4 when I reached maximum malice, but it still wasn't effective. It also felt really bad when I've been working hard setting up for that execute with my rifle4 saving initiative only to not have it crit. a My dps suffered and I was usually dying. So in the end I only used the rifle as a spam 12,3 weapon when I was at 100HP kiting mobs and waiting for my heal to recharge.

 

I finished the story tonight and I decided to give P/P a go because the rifle lift such a bitter impression... Holy hell... Why was I wasting my time with the rifle again? P/P does so much more reliable damage yet I wasn't glued to the floor.

 

I'm not really much of a pvp/wvw player, but I can't see the weapon being effective there either beside getting a few gotcha kills on newer players. But as a result of you being immobile, you bring nothing to the team beside singe target kill power with a relatively long wind up time, so you're basically a hindrance for the team.

 

I an almost imagine how the Deadeye looked and played in the pre alpha phase. But since you can really put a true sniper class in to an mmorpg they had to severely reduce the damage while also removing parts of abilities. When you use some abilities it almost feels like they were supposed to do something else something more, but they don't for some reason.

 

I sincerely hope they rework the rifle. Maybe in to a condi weapon where you perhaps explode conditions based on malice. Or maybe make rifle5 a targeted shadow step that teleports you and sits you down. Shadow Flare could also use a buff in the form of having multiple charges or the ability to jump back and forth between 2 points multiple times. In any case the DPS needs to increase, at least in PvE, because as it stands there's no reason to pick it up unless it's to look cool while doing nothing of value. Other weapons are on par or are stronger while not being subjected to a self root.

[Endlos.4852]

PVE player's crazy thought: What if Death's Judgement had its additional bonus damage from malice lowered or even removed, but instead restored 1 initiative for each point of malice you currently have, up to 5?

 

Base damage numbers would need to be tinkered with: Death's Judgement should be less damage-per-initiative than Three Round Burst at low malice stacks, but then at high malice stacks the refund on DJ should push it significantly ahead of TRB and make it sustainable at the same time. Malice already drops off after 25 seconds, so you couldn't DJ infinitely, and you'd still have the "backloaded" buildup of doing TRB at low malice then switching to DJ spam at high malice without the initiative starvation.

 

Currently, I can either choose to spam TRB at low initiative and then not have any initiative for DJ, or I can just sit around using TRB only at full initiative, otherwise autoattacking, waiting to be able to use DJ. It feels like, due to mechanics, I end up making the wrong choice over half the time. If I save my initiative for DJ, the target could move, or it could die, or it could hit me with a control effect that eats up time during my malice stack and knocks me out of kneel. If I blow my initiative on Three Round Burst, I am starved at max malice and can't use DJ. In either case, the rifle's auto attack doesn't hit nearly hard enough.

 

Getting to use DJ "properly" should feel like a reward, not a requirement to finally start functioning. Once you are at 5/7 malice, a lower-damage-per-shot-but-spammable DJ would make it feel like you aren't "punished" for using initiative early on the 2 or 3 skills, and make it feel like you're "rewarded" for maintaining a single target rather than simply unlocking access to really hurt it after a long period of just pooling initiative. This would also have the nice side effect of lessening the negative impact of an enemy dodge or block. If I pool everything now and then DJ gets avoided or consumed, I'm completely hosed. If DJ fire could be sustained in exchange for damage, a missed, interrupted, or bungled shot wouldn't feel as painful as it currently does.

 

With the lockdown mechanic of kneel and all the ways that can be countered, even by simple PVE target mechanics, Deadeye needs to consistently hit harder than it does. If we're forced to be immobile in a game that punishes standing still as hard as GW2 often does, then we should be high-tier melee DPS. If we're upright and moving, we should be dealing competent damage in line with other ranged specs and weapons. As it is, it feels like we need Kneel just to do "acceptable" damage for range, and upright is a complete joke.

 

As a note, I feel like putting the initiative refund on TRB would force Anet to lower its damage even more, and we already do terrible damage below full malice. TRB builds might and, even counting the pre-launch reduction, still hits okay-ish. And that still wouldn't solve the current problem of "Malice is full. DJ. Auto. Auto. Auto. Auto. Auto. DJ. Auto. Auto. Auto. Auto. Auto. DJ." which simply doesn't feel very fluid -- that auto-attack gap is way too large. TRB is already a decent key. DJ isn't very good and even getting the chance to use it is unreliable. DJ is the one that needs love, we should feel like we want to push DJ when we're finally at max malice, not a button that we feel like we have to push but often can't.

[Vindicus.2130]

> @Zalavaaris.5329 said:

> > @Jinks.2057 said:

> > > @Zalavaaris.5329 said:

> > > > @Barzah.8019 said:

> > > > Er...actually Deadeye rifle can outdamage pistol unload, and you can do it in 4 to 6 second interval. Many people still think that rifle is another straightforward weapon like pistol, just spam 3 3 3 3 3 and win the prize. When you use the rifle, you need to develop a certain rotation instead of spamming 1 or 2 button in order to achieve maximum damage output. Based on my experience, choosing between maleficent seven and quickness A.K.A be quick or be dead will affect the rifle skill rotation. Once you found your skill rotation, it will be easy for you to deal 13k to 31k damage per shot in less than 10 second.

> > > >

> > > > tldr; pick maleficent seven for damage output rifle, or be quick or be killed for quick burst that also work wonder on other weapon than rifle.

> > >

> > > Sadly that 31k hit has nothing to do with dps. It isn't the 31k hits that's the problem, it's that most of the damage is front loaded using DJ with 7 stacks. The rest of the time we are sitting ducks doing wet noodle damage. You'll never be able to take rifle into a raid until changes are made.

> >

> > Who cares about rifle in raids. Use DD and a staff or another class it's kitten PvE.

> >

> > You got a new spec and it's pretty kitten selfish of PvE players to expect EVERY new elite to be the BEST DEEPS FOR RAIDZORS.

> >

> > DE & Rifle in the grand scheme of the game is good. The importance of "meta" in PvE raids is something the dev team should never even consider in terms of game balance.

>

> I care... and apparently a lot of other people do as well. The fact that you are separating yourself from pve players in your message makes me think you are exclusive to other game modes. Therefore you probably care for those modes balancing. If that's the case please read my op. This entire thread is about rifle dps in raids. You are OFF TOPIC

 

You can safely ignore Jinks. Look at his post history. He's on some kind of crusade to make people think Deadeye is the bestest most amazingest most OPest spec. He died to a few in pvp and this is his attempt at retribution.

[Acheron.4576]

is the whole high risk high rewards still melee exclusive anymore? There is so much range hate in this game it isn't even funny. There are some enemies that completely neutralize range damage. Hell, there are some that make them detrimental to the fight. ie bosses i've seen having a buff that turns all projectiles into healing....

 

the excuse that only melee is high risk and high rewards and ranged shouldn't have as much damage because of it is total bs and hasn't really applied sense vanilla gw2.

[Barzah.8019]

Well after playing Rifle deadeye intensively for couple day, right now im completely against suggestion to rework rifle mechanic. In general, the weapon offer loads of variation for offensive and defensive tactic, and it's actually work very well with Deadeye Mark on both PvP and PvE situation. The main problem with this weapon is the damage output outside the DJ skill which is rather low (even with kneel). Also, the slow attack speed make it really hard to gain malice at faster rate, while deadeye rifle are heavily depend to this mechanic.

 

So what rifle needed right now is an adjustment to both damage number and malice gain to make deadeye rifle a great sniping tool.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

I have a suggestion that I know they won't do but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. I feel it would increase our sustained dps in pve and not break pvp. I also feel my idea would add some interesting game play and decision making during combat. My idea is that DJ has a 33% chance on crit to make our next TRB free and deal 20% more damage. This would be baked into the rifles mechanics. This would follow their design philosophy of having us prioritize DJ usage. It isn't consistent enough to break pvp but it would add sustained dps in raids. Pvp would see a bonus every now and again but if they are using DJ they were probably close to a kill anyway. This would not buff our damage while standing so we would want to prioritize kneeling like the devs want. This also adds more gameplay choices than 1,1,1,1,4 repeat. I'm imagining TRBs logo to light up around the border when this free usage procs. That's what I would do to make the weapon more competitive.

 

Edit: if it seems too good in pvp they could make the chance to proc against players 10%. Also, this would only work on crits on a marked target across all game modes.

[LazerusKI.7485]

> @Endlos.4852 said:

> PVE player's crazy thought: What if Death's Judgement had its additional bonus damage from malice lowered or even removed, but instead restored 1 initiative for each point of malice you currently have, up to 5?

>

> Base damage numbers would need to be tinkered with: Death's Judgement should be less damage-per-initiative than Three Round Burst at low malice stacks, but then at high malice stacks the refund on DJ should push it significantly ahead of TRB and make it sustainable at the same time. Malice already drops off after 25 seconds, so you couldn't DJ infinitely, and you'd still have the "backloaded" buildup of doing TRB at low malice then switching to DJ spam at high malice without the initiative starvation.

>

> Currently, I can either choose to spam TRB at low initiative and then not have any initiative for DJ, or I can just sit around using TRB only at full initiative, otherwise autoattacking, waiting to be able to use DJ. It feels like, due to mechanics, I end up making the wrong choice over half the time. If I save my initiative for DJ, the target could move, or it could die, or it could hit me with a control effect that eats up time during my malice stack and knocks me out of kneel. If I blow my initiative on Three Round Burst, I am starved at max malice and can't use DJ. In either case, the rifle's auto attack doesn't hit nearly hard enough.

>

> Getting to use DJ "properly" should feel like a reward, not a requirement to finally start functioning. Once you are at 5/7 malice, a lower-damage-per-shot-but-spammable DJ would make it feel like you aren't "punished" for using initiative early on the 2 or 3 skills, and make it feel like you're "rewarded" for maintaining a single target rather than simply unlocking access to really hurt it after a long period of just pooling initiative. This would also have the nice side effect of lessening the negative impact of an enemy dodge or block. If I pool everything now and then DJ gets avoided or consumed, I'm completely hosed. If DJ fire could be sustained in exchange for damage, a missed, interrupted, or bungled shot wouldn't feel as painful as it currently does.

>

> With the lockdown mechanic of kneel and all the ways that can be countered, even by simple PVE target mechanics, Deadeye needs to consistently hit harder than it does. If we're forced to be immobile in a game that punishes standing still as hard as GW2 often does, then we should be high-tier melee DPS. If we're upright and moving, we should be dealing competent damage in line with other ranged specs and weapons. As it is, it feels like we need Kneel just to do "acceptable" damage for range, and upright is a complete joke.

>

> As a note, I feel like putting the initiative refund on TRB would force Anet to lower its damage even more, and we already do terrible damage below full malice. TRB builds might and, even counting the pre-launch reduction, still hits okay-ish. And that still wouldn't solve the current problem of "Malice is full. DJ. Auto. Auto. Auto. Auto. Auto. DJ. Auto. Auto. Auto. Auto. Auto. DJ." which simply doesn't feel very fluid -- that auto-attack gap is way too large. TRB is already a decent key. DJ isn't very good and even getting the chance to use it is unreliable. DJ is the one that needs love, we should feel like we want to push DJ when we're finally at max malice, not a button that we feel like we have to push but often can't.

 

then i wouldnt have a reason to use rifle at all because then DJ would be literally a worse version of Unload. DJ allready only deals around 50% more damage than Unload, but Unload doesnt need Malice and has more chances to Proc sigils and stack conditions all while staying fully mobile, hell add a Sigil of strength and you even generate Might like crazy.

Personally i think that TRB should get a buff, let it regain initiative just like Unload so that we have a reason to actually use it. Also its THREE round burst that deals around 5k damage for me...while my autoattack hits for 2.5k. thats not THREE bullets, thats TWO. I dont understand why the damage was lowered when it was "stronger" than DJ, why wasnt DJ buffed instead to make it worth using?

DJ Damage needs to be even higher than it is now to actually compete with other weapons like Pistols Unload, since DJ has the added drawbacks of chargetime, high initiative cost, malice requirement and kneeling requirement. Pressing Unload twice deals more damage in a shorter time with more mobility and more effects than DJ i think...that shouldnt be the case, where is the reward for all the preparation?

[flyingfox.6150]

Not sure they are going to buff something they just nerfed. They really shouldn't have nerfed it. Maybe they can consider lowering initiative cost or gain initiative cost like Unload. Then again, I don't want it to behave exactly like unload...not a fan of homogenizing skills and talents in games.

[LazerusKI.7485]

> @flyingfox.6150 said:

> Not sure they are going to buff something they just nerfed. They really shouldn't have nerfed it. Maybe they can consider lowering initiative cost or gain initiative cost like Unload. Then again, I don't want it to behave exactly like unload...not a fan of homogenizing skills and talents in games.

 

even if they dont increase the damage again, doing something for initiative would allready be enough. maybe combine it with malice, for every point of malice you have you get one initiative back, that way it would scale nicely with the new mechanic and encourage using it even with the "nerfed damage".

[Barzah.8019]

Initiative reduction for double tap would be great, also Rifle definitely need something to make them gain malice at faster rate. For icing on the cake, giving skill 1 2 3 increase damage per malice stack just like DJ while kneeling will solve the damage problem while not making this class another unload spam all over again.

[OlsenSan.2987]

I made a new thief only for this expansion, to play along with deadeye and enjoy the best from it. Ofc the first thing I miss compared to daredevil is the lack of endurance to evade/dodge skills from foes. I kinda like the boosts, but as most of people said in here, I dont think it is viable to use rifle on most of the fights, specially openworld/solo, when you get caught in a zerg of mobs and it wont give you much to do, plus will take away your mobility and you will end up dead. As most of people said, the kneeling skills dmg are great, after using mark. You can actually use backward/evade skills when kneeling, but you have to make sure to hit 5 to stand or you will be an easy prey anyway. Rifles are bad in fights against condi aoe dmg classes. After playing daredevil, anything that makes me feel slow and stuck isnt good.

 

Now, when I switch to d/d I think it gives me an increased dmg and mobility during a fight. You are able to dodge and evade more often and actually engage fights against zergs. One change that I think could be made for this specialization would be making endurance bar as much as we have with daredevil.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @Saraneth.6021 said:

> > @Jana.6831 said:

> > I quit. Not because rifle didn't give me what I wanted but because anet have no clue what they're doing in general.

> > Had I the faith that they will make this game decent again I'd bought it no matter what.

>

> Hmm. All I can say is that it has only been a few days. Give them a chance. If you don't like something discuss it. Don't do what DeceiverX wants and stay quite. Be vocal. Being vocal about issues you are having is healthy. Just be nice about it.

>

 

You must be new around here to say I haven't been vocal about what the thief on the design-level needs.

 

Hell, I even proposed the Deadeye concept - even named the Deadeye - in a much different form with full implementation details nearly two years ago, did all the balancing math, and directly assessed what would happen if a stealth sniper were implemented and why it would be bad for the game. I've reiterated myself probably a hundred times in every stealth-sniper thread made about why this is the outcome people should have been expecting and why we shouldn't have gotten rifle/deadeye concept as it is. You can't make this concept fun and balanced for everyone. It's a gimmick, and I'm not the only one who was saying this about the stealth-sniper concept, either. It'll always either be mediocre at best, or completely dominant over everything else from being broken numerically.

 

I've just stopped playing thief in general considering they also removed my build from the game and nerfed/changed design direction on the power builds I found fun. I've picked up power reaper which I find simply more fun these days. Really, my GW2 time in overall is down to maybe 10% of what it used to be before HoT. I'm not buying PoF because I will not support ANet until they at the very least fix their first expansion, which they still haven't. If I can design something justifiably more mechanically solid in a few weeks than what ANet can come up with, and recognize the design problems of other concepts before they even get implemented, I find it fully admissible for me to say their design capabilities are poor. I've worked in the MMO industry. ANet isn't doing a good job.

 

Being a long-term advocate for this profession, and one of the more numerically-knowledgeable people on this class, I stick around for the sake of sticking around to help when people ask for it or have meaningful discussion to bring. Sadly, most people (on all professions) don't recognize the state of the rest of the game, and insist on getting frivolous buffs and broken concepts applied to their professions which further break the game long-term and reduce enjoyment for everyone involved.

 

[Barzah.8019]

> @OlsenSan.2987 said:

> As most of people said, the kneeling skills dmg are great, after using mark. You can actually use backward/evade skills when kneeling, but you have to make sure to hit 5 to stand or you will be an easy prey anyway. Rifles are bad in fights against condi aoe dmg classes. After playing daredevil, anything that makes me feel slow and stuck isnt good.

>

> Now, when I switch to d/d I think it gives me an increased dmg and mobility during a fight. You are able to dodge and evade more often and actually engage fights against zergs. One change that I think could be made for this specialization would be making endurance bar as much as we have with daredevil.

 

Most people say that because they don't know how to play rifle properly, while thinking that rifle is just pistol unload with longer range (saw it with my own eye...it's a sad situation for them). If you spec your trait properly, rifle spec can be the most stealthiest / condition free spec compared to other build which make close range combat viable enough since we can quickly do hit and run fairly easy...unless there are warrior with magebane tether nearby.

[Jana.6831]

> @DeceiverX.8361 said:

> Being a long-term advocate for this profession, and one of the more numerically-knowledgeable people on this class, I stick around for the sake of sticking around to help >when people ask for it or have meaningful discussion to bring. Sadly, most people (on all professions) don't recognize the state of the rest of the game, and insist on >getting frivolous buffs and broken concepts applied to their professions which further break the game long-term and reduce enjoyment for everyone involved.

 

True that, but even you get stuff wrong or don't see the bigger picture - that happens to everybody and that's why anet should be the judge. They've failed us with that the past 3 years.

 

 

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @Jana.6831 said:

> There's competition in PvE?

 

Score-attack is a thing... Maybe not in this game, but...

 

In this game, PvE has RACING! REAL COMPETITIVE RACING!

 

I swear it's legit. I swerrr...

[Jana.6831]

> @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> > @Jana.6831 said:

> > There's competition in PvE?

>

> Score-attack is a thing... Maybe not in this game, but...

>

> In this game, PvE has RACING! REAL COMPETITIVE RACING!

>

> I swear it's legit. I swerrr...

 

:# I feel the pain!

And I also get that a power weapon has got to be the winner in a condi dominated game mode!

[LazerusKI.7485]

> @Barzah.8019 said:

> > @OlsenSan.2987 said:

> > As most of people said, the kneeling skills dmg are great, after using mark. You can actually use backward/evade skills when kneeling, but you have to make sure to hit 5 to stand or you will be an easy prey anyway. Rifles are bad in fights against condi aoe dmg classes. After playing daredevil, anything that makes me feel slow and stuck isnt good.

> >

> > Now, when I switch to d/d I think it gives me an increased dmg and mobility during a fight. You are able to dodge and evade more often and actually engage fights against zergs. One change that I think could be made for this specialization would be making endurance bar as much as we have with daredevil.

>

> Most people say that because they don't know how to play rifle properly, while thinking that rifle is just pistol unload with longer range (saw it with my own eye...it's a sad situation for them). If you spec your trait properly, rifle spec can be the most stealthiest / condition free spec compared to other build which make close range combat viable enough since we can quickly do hit and run fairly easy...unless there are warrior with magebane tether nearby.

 

how to play rifle properly? erm...

 

1: is a slow autoattack. dont use slow autoattack unless you have to, you want to kill something, remember?

2: is a piercing bullet that slows/roots , no meaningful damage here and useless against ranged targets

3: is the only real damageskill until you have malice, sadly even kneeling it only deals around two times the damage of your 1

4: is our "finisher" that only really hurts when we have malice.

5: is our camping key

 

now...how do you play it properly when we have exactly one skill to burst out damage until we have malice?

remember the patchnotes from day one? TRB Nerfed by 16% because DJ wasnt worth using? So yes, TRB WAS our Unload

[Gray.9041]

> @KrHome.1920 said:

> > @Zalavaaris.5329 said:

> > I want to go to a dummy and see the dps match a staff daredevil. I want to go to my raid with my rifle and not hold my group back.

> Rifle is is a ranged weapon. Staff is not.

>

> These PvE'ers....

>

> Kind of naive to expect a 1200 range (let's ignore the kneel mechanic at this point) weapon to be DPS competitive to melee weapons.

 

Staff has cleave, Rifle does not.

 

These PvP'ers....

 

Kind of naive to expect a 3-target (let's ignore vault at this point) weapon to be DPS competitive to single-target weapons.

 

 

 

> And it's not that you can't use any melee weapons with deadeye.

 

being able to use other weapons doesn't excuse the issues rifle has.

 

> Focusing on burst was the only non-game-breaking thing Anet could do with the rifle. And they did a pretty good job.

 

I can understand burst, but most other burst weapons can do _something_ while waiting between bursts. And I wholly disagree - they didn't do a good job with rifle. it doesn't feel fun to play. numbers aside, the gameplay doesn't _feel_ fun, which is as if not more important.

[Barzah.8019]

> @LazerusKI.7485 said:

> 1: is a slow autoattack. dont use slow autoattack unless you have to, you want to kill something, remember?

> 2: is a piercing bullet that slows/roots , no meaningful damage here and useless against ranged targets

> 3: is the only real damageskill until you have malice, sadly even kneeling it only deals around two times the damage of your 1

> 4: is our "finisher" that only really hurts when we have malice.

> 5: is our camping key

>

> now...how do you play it properly when we have exactly one skill to burst out damage until we have malice?

> remember the patchnotes from day one? TRB Nerfed by 16% because DJ wasnt worth using? So yes, TRB WAS our Unload

1. more like pair your 1 with 2 skil if you want a decent damage + annoying condition. If you want to pop malice quickly, then use stolen skill + improvisation and revealed malice. That's 7-8 second full stack malice for y

2. Panic strike turn spotter shot into annoying tools

3. We got triple tap remember :D it's still a decent skill right now and you can take glass cannon relatively easy on PvP. If you want a good rotation, mix your tap with other skill (not DJ tho) + Stolen item at the right moment so you can get full malice stack asap

4. While i do agree that rifle count as the slowest weapon when it comes to malice gain. bellow 10 second 5 to full malice definitely make you a powerhouse thx to DJ

5. Rebind the key plz, i put 5 skill to R and never got any problem using it

[LazerusKI.7485]

> @Barzah.8019 said:

> > @LazerusKI.7485 said:

> > 1: is a slow autoattack. dont use slow autoattack unless you have to, you want to kill something, remember?

> > 2: is a piercing bullet that slows/roots , no meaningful damage here and useless against ranged targets

> > 3: is the only real damageskill until you have malice, sadly even kneeling it only deals around two times the damage of your 1

> > 4: is our "finisher" that only really hurts when we have malice.

> > 5: is our camping key

> >

> > now...how do you play it properly when we have exactly one skill to burst out damage until we have malice?

> > remember the patchnotes from day one? TRB Nerfed by 16% because DJ wasnt worth using? So yes, TRB WAS our Unload

> 1. more like pair your 1 with 2 skil if you want a decent damage + annoying condition. If you want to pop malice quickly, then use stolen skill + improvisation and revealed malice. That's 7-8 second full stack malice for y

> 2. Panic strike turn spotter shot into annoying tools

> 3. We got triple tap remember :D it's still a decent skill right now and you can take glass cannon relatively easy on PvP. If you want a good rotation, mix your tap with other skill (not DJ tho) + Stolen item at the right moment so you can get full malice stack asap

> 4. While i do agree that rifle count as the slowest weapon when it comes to malice gain. bellow 10 second 5 to full malice definitely make you a powerhouse thx to DJ

> 5. Rebind the key plz, i put 5 skill to R and never got any problem using it

 

pve enemies dont care about slow or immobilize because usually they are in groups and in most cases there is a ranged fighter too, or one that pulls you, or one that sets your camp on fire.

yeah how nice when panic strike can turn spotter shot into an annoying tool. the whole design is based on power though, not on conditions. i want to kill, not annoy.

pvp. as it was said several times before, DE in pvp is entirely different from how he is in pve. yes you can take out single targets easily, but you can do the same with pistols even faster. and in pve you usually dont encounter a single target as i said above. or you have bosses in pve that force you to move where all the burst damage that can kill a glasscannon in pvp is suddenly not working anymore.

and for your 4...well...you can instead take "be quick or be killed" , mark a target, get quickness, press Unload. Since unload deals just a little less damage than a fully charged DJ with 7 malice you will deal a lot more damage in a much shorter time with the added advantage of gaining back initiative to chain them together like crazy. even if your target doesnt go down after one unload, malice ticks up and gives you more damage.

on R i have my heal, shift+r is my "special" (the thing on [-] or [ß])

[Barzah.8019]

> @LazerusKI.7485 said:

> pve enemies dont care about slow or immobilize because usually they are in groups and in most cases there is a ranged fighter too, or one that pulls you, or one that sets your camp on fire.

> yeah how nice when panic strike can turn spotter shot into an annoying tool. the whole design is based on power though, not on conditions. i want to kill, not annoy.

> pvp. as it was said several times before, DE in pvp is entirely different from how he is in pve. yes you can take out single targets easily, but you can do the same with pistols even faster. and in pve you usually dont encounter a single target as i said above. or you have bosses in pve that force you to move where all the burst damage that can kill a glasscannon in pvp is suddenly not working anymore.

> and for your 4...well...you can instead take "be quick or be killed" , mark a target, get quickness, press Unload. Since unload deals just a little less damage than a fully charged DJ with 7 malice you will deal a lot more damage in a much shorter time with the added advantage of gaining back initiative to chain them together like crazy. even if your target doesnt go down after one unload, malice ticks up and gives you more damage.

> on R i have my heal, shift+r is my "special" (the thing on [-] or [ß])

 

1. With mug + be quick or be killed, you can easily jump from 1 weak enemy to the other. If you insist fighting mob squad with a rifle, using shadow art will give you constant stealth from mark which make it easier for you to keep changing position. My favorite tactic on the other hand is to keep my mark on 1 mob and use DJ on others, it work on both PvE and PvP situation.

2. Panic strike from Deadly art work as additional damage and prevent enemy overheal, which mean it's better for PvP situation. Critical strike trait on the other hand give better rifle damage compared to deadly art that make this skill really good to pump rifle damage. Also it's somewhat fun to make the whole mob stack into one spot and then spam skill 2 :D

3. Indeed, pistol unload perform better at short damage burst. However, rifle + maleficent seven shine at maintaining damage burst since...7-8 second full mark and DJ spam. Not to mention that you can mix Tap with skill 1 and stolen item before full stack to get damage bonus from lead attack minor trait. If rifle is also better at short burst damage, then what's the point of using pistol

4. Well It's up to you to rebind kneel to whatever button that you are familiar with,

 

[LazerusKI.7485]

> @Barzah.8019 said:

> > @LazerusKI.7485 said:

> > pve enemies dont care about slow or immobilize because usually they are in groups and in most cases there is a ranged fighter too, or one that pulls you, or one that sets your camp on fire.

> > yeah how nice when panic strike can turn spotter shot into an annoying tool. the whole design is based on power though, not on conditions. i want to kill, not annoy.

> > pvp. as it was said several times before, DE in pvp is entirely different from how he is in pve. yes you can take out single targets easily, but you can do the same with pistols even faster. and in pve you usually dont encounter a single target as i said above. or you have bosses in pve that force you to move where all the burst damage that can kill a glasscannon in pvp is suddenly not working anymore.

> > and for your 4...well...you can instead take "be quick or be killed" , mark a target, get quickness, press Unload. Since unload deals just a little less damage than a fully charged DJ with 7 malice you will deal a lot more damage in a much shorter time with the added advantage of gaining back initiative to chain them together like crazy. even if your target doesnt go down after one unload, malice ticks up and gives you more damage.

> > on R i have my heal, shift+r is my "special" (the thing on [-] or [ß])

>

> 1. With mug + be quick or be killed, you can easily jump from 1 weak enemy to the other. If you insist fighting mob squad with a rifle, using shadow art will give you constant stealth from mark which make it easier for you to keep changing position. My favorite tactic on the other hand is to keep my mark on 1 mob and use DJ on others, it work on both PvE and PvP situation.

> 2. Panic strike from Deadly art work as additional damage and prevent enemy overheal, which mean it's better for PvP situation. Critical strike trait on the other hand give better rifle damage compared to deadly art that make this skill really good to pump rifle damage. Also it's somewhat fun to make the whole mob stack into one spot and then spam skill 2 :D

> 3. Indeed, pistol unload perform better at short damage burst. However, rifle + maleficent seven shine at maintaining damage burst since...7-8 second full mark and DJ spam. Not to mention that you can mix Tap with skill 1 and stolen item before full stack to get damage bonus from lead attack minor trait. If rifle is also better at short burst damage, then what's the point of using pistol

> 4. Well It's up to you to rebind kneel to whatever button that you are familiar with,

>

 

1. works without mug too, be quick or be killed is strong enough when used with Pistols, usually in pve the fight is over before i can get the third point of malice.

2. only had that situation once with very weak enemies, i also use 2 when another enemy blocks my shots as usual...

3. i highly doubt that. Unload can start with high damage right from the start with permanent quickness and better ini efficiency, unload can also deal more damage later in the fight since it also profits from malice stacks and generates might. to spam DJ you pretty much have to attack with 1 only, and even with autoattack and the trickery traits i was only able to use DJ twice in a row and then a third time very closely before the mark ended. if i want to "boost" DJ with might i have to use energy on TRB shortly before i reach 7 malice, which means i can use DJ just once (and from what i have seen thats not worth it at all)

So both in short time burst and long time damage the pistol wins. thats the whole point, why using a rifle when the pistols win in every single real situation? I dont have to wait for that one skill to deal damage, i deal more damage with every unload i press, i can chain them together pretty much as long as i want, they are the main damage skill AND the main buff skill at the same time, not split in two heavy ini users locked behind a timegate like it is on rifle. At the end of a mark i dealt around 60k damage with my rifle and 90k with pistols...

4. yep, sadly there is no "per character" keybind option

 

instead of nerfing trb it would have been better to buff dj -.-