Second column of soulbeast trait is a problem ...

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > Lately i thought about a possible trait idea for Soulbeast.

> > > How about: Activate Lesser wolfpack when activating or leaving soulbeast mode.

> > > So lets say for the next 2s you have the effect of one wolf pack active. If you activate the stance share trait it will also be shared by allies.

> > > Could be an interesting interaction and could lead to specialized dmg support builds.

> >

> > I would like more to have Unstoppable Union in both way, when you go in and when you go out from beastmode. Because like it is now, the trait is almost useless.

>

> The trait is fantastic as is. We can already get decent uptime on unblockables. I really don't think we need it when we leave Beastmode as well.

 

Personally i think about the stunbreak not the unblockable. The unblockable can stay as is or even put on another power based trait and unstoppable union gets the bothway treatment.

 

[Wondrouswall.7169]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> Yeah vulture stance could do it to. But i stand on the swap idea.

> This way soulbeast could be most valuable in group play by weaving in and out instead of camping. The duration could be increased by a small amount though and its duration should ofcourse increase when you take the correaponding GM.

 

That's probably why I'm not really down on proc a lesser stance when weaving in and out of BM. I'm more with retaining archetype stats and having that trait as a GM. That and so far, no trait allows a lesser Elite to proc, let alone every 10s and I have no doubt there will ever be one is a master tier.

 

Doesn't seem fitting to weave in and out of BM for a lesser utility when it should be (to me) involving a core feature of the spec.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > Yeah vulture stance could do it to. But i stand on the swap idea.

> > This way soulbeast could be most valuable in group play by weaving in and out instead of camping. The duration could be increased by a small amount though and its duration should ofcourse increase when you take the correaponding GM.

>

> That's probably why I'm not really down on proc a lesser stance when weaving in and out of BM. I'm more with retaining archetype stats and having that trait as a GM. That and so far, no trait allows a lesser Elite to proc, let alone every 10s and I have no doubt there will ever be one is a master tier.

>

> Doesn't seem fitting to weave in and out of BM for a lesser utility when it should be (to me) involving a core feature of the spec.

 

Yeah the last one is a good point and you know that i am all for the retain archetype bonus idea.

Basically i am brainstorming with my self how this spec can be made more effective and engaging.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

In terms of an engaging weave gameplay with an effective master tier, how about this:

(adept) Fresh Reinforcement - changed so boons are also shared with the pet when exiting Beastmode (very important to make this work).

(master) Essence of Speed - changed to increase archetype bonuses by 40% (said 20% before but that's a bit low) while under the effects of quickness.

(grandmaster) Twice as Vicious - changed to retain archetype bonuses for 10s when exiting Beastmode.

 

Combine that with the above minors of Live Fast and Furious Strength, then a weaving-style can be engaging and rewarding. Take the other stuff I posted above and that can be for a condition Soulbeast camping style that currently exists (for those that enjoy it in that mode).

 

EoS suggestion (at 40%) would be like consuming mid-high grade food. 200/100 archetypes would offer 80/40, an extra 6% of boon duration, and 10% healing effectiveness on support. Not too shabby for a master tier and not too powerful either since it needs quickness uptime to nab it.

 

Synergy built-in if Live Fast can become a minor and a great bonus with a GM trait to retain archetype bonuses after exiting. Have that momentum of Beastmode while fighting with the pet. Although FR needs boons to be shared both ways, otherwise, a weaving-style is a bust if boons have to be re-applied to the pet. If not, then the playstyle would be locked into having WHaO as the heal, but that would not be as good with cooldown differences.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> In terms of an engaging weave gameplay with an effective master tier, how about this:

> (adept) Fresh Reinforcement - changed so boons are also shared with the pet when exiting Beastmode (very important to make this work).

> (master) Essence of Speed - changed to increase archetype bonuses by 40% (said 20% before but that's a bit low) while under the effects of quickness.

> (grandmaster) Twice as Vicious - changed to retain archetype bonuses for 10s when exiting Beastmode.

>

> Combine that with the above minors of Live Fast and Furious Strength, then a weaving-style can be engaging and rewarding. Take the other stuff I posted above and that can be for a condition Soulbeast camping style that currently exists (for those that enjoy it in that mode).

>

> EoS suggestion (at 40%) would be like consuming mid-high grade food. 200/100 archetypes would offer 80/40, an extra 6% of boon duration, and 10% healing effectiveness on support. Not too shabby for a master tier and not too powerful either since it needs quickness uptime to nab it.

>

> Synergy built-in if Live Fast can become a minor and a great bonus with a GM trait to retain archetype bonuses after exiting. Have that momentum of Beastmode while fighting with the pet. Although FR needs boons to be shared both ways, otherwise, a weaving-style is a bust if boons have to be re-applied to the pet. If not, then the playstyle would be locked into having WHaO as the heal, but that would not be as good with cooldown differences.

 

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> In terms of an engaging weave gameplay with an effective master tier, how about this:

> (adept) Fresh Reinforcement - changed so boons are also shared with the pet when exiting Beastmode (very important to make this work).

> (master) Essence of Speed - changed to increase archetype bonuses by 40% (said 20% before but that's a bit low) while under the effects of quickness.

> (grandmaster) Twice as Vicious - changed to retain archetype bonuses for 10s when exiting Beastmode.

>

> Combine that with the above minors of Live Fast and Furious Strength, then a weaving-style can be engaging and rewarding. Take the other stuff I posted above and that can be for a condition Soulbeast camping style that currently exists (for those that enjoy it in that mode).

>

> EoS suggestion (at 40%) would be like consuming mid-high grade food. 200/100 archetypes would offer 80/40, an extra 6% of boon duration, and 10% healing effectiveness on support. Not too shabby for a master tier and not too powerful either since it needs quickness uptime to nab it.

>

> Synergy built-in if Live Fast can become a minor and a great bonus with a GM trait to retain archetype bonuses after exiting. Have that momentum of Beastmode while fighting with the pet. Although FR needs boons to be shared both ways, otherwise, a weaving-style is a bust if boons have to be re-applied to the pet. If not, then the playstyle would be locked into having WHaO as the heal, but that would not be as good with cooldown differences.

 

Love the idea, sounds great.

Asking for permission to use these ideas for my soulbeast comprehensive improvement thread.

How would you change the more defensive traits and the condition department ?

Second akin has a decent effect but lacks some flavor and predators cunning is the best trait in this section but would suck in comparison to your suggestion.

 

[Wondrouswall.7169]

By all means, use them. I always like seeing threads like yours that are a think-tank of discussion and refinement. A worst-case scenario is that ideas are used for other profession's next e-spec. :lol:

 

As for the defensive line, I personally like how Unstoppable Union is thematically, having a defensive feature via stun break and boasting an offensive measure with unblockable attacks. I say keep that theme rolling throughout the line of offering tools to turn the momentum starting with UU as a base. Maybe:

 

(adept) Unstoppable Union - as-is. A possibility of unblockable going both ways but hear me out.

(master) Second Skin - Protection also reduces condition damage. Gain Protection (3s) when gaining Unblockable.

(grandmaster) Eternal Bond - Swapping pets recharges Beastmode.

 

An odd pairing of synergy for gaining protection when gaining the unblockable effect, but this will have it extend to Signet of the Hunt and Call of the Wild on Warhorn (when in Beastmode) so there's a bit of defense when going on the offense.

 

Biggest suggestion is changing EB completely from a passive, second-wind trait to something that can allow players to jump right back into Beastmode after unmerging with the trade-off of having to swap pets. This means the potential gain of Unstoppable Union again for chaining unblockable, protection, and beast abilities from 2 different archetypes.

 

A simple but powerful trait worthy of a GM (imo) and much better than a passive, second-wind type trait that is bolstered further through the use of other traits such as pet swap traits and other combinations such as using Fresh Reinforcement instead of Unstoppable Union.

 

Or subbing out Second Skin with Essence of Speed suggestion. Those bonuses are amped because quickness uptime if chaining 2 beast abilities while offering a different way to ensure one can take advantage of those bonuses without the suggested Twice as Vicious because the player can simply return in Beastmode after a swap. Way more active and engaging and with posibilities!

[Rap Tiger.1257]

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> By all means, use them. I always like seeing threads like yours that are a think-tank of discussion and refinement. A worst-case scenario is that ideas are used for other profession's next e-spec. :lol:

>

> As for the defensive line, I personally like how Unstoppable Union is thematically, having a defensive feature via stun break and boasting an offensive measure with unblockable attacks. I say keep that theme rolling throughout the line of offering tools to turn the momentum starting with UU as a base. Maybe:

>

> (adept) Unstoppable Union - as-is. A possibility of unblockable going both ways but hear me out.

> (master) Second Skin - Protection also reduces condition damage. Gain Protection (3s) when gaining Unblockable.

> (grandmaster) Eternal Bond - Swapping pets recharges Beastmode.

>

> An odd pairing of synergy for gaining protection when gaining the unblockable effect, but this will have it extend to Signet of the Hunt and Call of the Wild on Warhorn (when in Beastmode) so there's a bit of defense when going on the offense.

>

> Biggest suggestion is changing EB completely from a passive, second-wind trait to something that can allow players to jump right back into Beastmode after unmerging with the trade-off of having to swap pets. This means the potential gain of Unstoppable Union again for chaining unblockable, protection, and beast abilities from 2 different archetypes.

>

> A simple but powerful trait worthy of a GM (imo) and much better than a passive, second-wind type trait that is bolstered further through the use of other traits such as pet swap traits and other combinations such as using Fresh Reinforcement instead of Unstoppable Union.

>

> Or subbing out Second Skin with Essence of Speed suggestion. Those bonuses are amped because quickness uptime if chaining 2 beast abilities while offering a different way to ensure one can take advantage of those bonuses without the suggested Twice as Vicious because the player can simply return in Beastmode after a swap. Way more active and engaging and with posibilities!

 

Great idea, that would be better than the current state of the traits.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> By all means, use them. I always like seeing threads like yours that are a think-tank of discussion and refinement. A worst-case scenario is that ideas are used for other profession's next e-spec. :lol:

>

> As for the defensive line, I personally like how Unstoppable Union is thematically, having a defensive feature via stun break and boasting an offensive measure with unblockable attacks. I say keep that theme rolling throughout the line of offering tools to turn the momentum starting with UU as a base. Maybe:

>

> (adept) Unstoppable Union - as-is. A possibility of unblockable going both ways but hear me out.

> (master) Second Skin - Protection also reduces condition damage. Gain Protection (3s) when gaining Unblockable.

> (grandmaster) Eternal Bond - Swapping pets recharges Beastmode.

>

> An odd pairing of synergy for gaining protection when gaining the unblockable effect, but this will have it extend to Signet of the Hunt and Call of the Wild on Warhorn (when in Beastmode) so there's a bit of defense when going on the offense.

>

> Biggest suggestion is changing EB completely from a passive, second-wind trait to something that can allow players to jump right back into Beastmode after unmerging with the trade-off of having to swap pets. This means the potential gain of Unstoppable Union again for chaining unblockable, protection, and beast abilities from 2 different archetypes.

>

> A simple but powerful trait worthy of a GM (imo) and much better than a passive, second-wind type trait that is bolstered further through the use of other traits such as pet swap traits and other combinations such as using Fresh Reinforcement instead of Unstoppable Union.

>

> Or subbing out Second Skin with Essence of Speed suggestion. Those bonuses are amped because quickness uptime if chaining 2 beast abilities while offering a different way to ensure one can take advantage of those bonuses without the suggested Twice as Vicious because the player can simply return in Beastmode after a swap. Way more active and engaging and with posibilities!

 

Cheers to that. Thx for permission.

The idea with the unblockable sounds awesome too with great synergy. Especially because second skin is more a PvP trait and this plays into eachother.

The idea of eternal bond is also very nice and something that would increase playflow.

If i understand correctly the suggested lay out looks like this:

 

Minors:

Adept: Baseline stays.

Master: Live Fast

GM: Furious Strength (now also affecting condi dmg)

 

Major Adept:

Fresh Reinforcement: Working both ways now.

 

Unstoppable Union: Working both ways now (i would also add the stunbreak in both directions for consistency and fluidity)

 

Missing Spot: Maybe an iteration of Twice as Vicious. I would like to see also here a weave in and out theme so it would be a choice in between the adepts claiming that aspect.

 

Major Master:

Second Skin: Protection reduces condi dmg. Gaining Unblockable gives protection.

 

Essence of Speed:

Your archetype bonus is increased by a certain amount (40% proposed) while under the effects of quickness. Also affects your pet (see GM for that)

 

Predators Cunning: As is atm, although i would like to see some improvememts here.

 

Major GM:

Leader of the Pack:

As is. Probably.

 

Eternal Bond: Swapping Pets recharges Beastmode. (swear this is just plain out elegant idea)

 

Oppressive Superiority:

Your archetype bonus stays for a short duration when outside beastmode for you and your pet.

 

 

 

Note:

Some condi duration is missing and could be put on either twice as vicious and predators cunning.

Old effect of oppresive superiority could be put on twice as vicious. Does not seems to potent to me actually, but this is my humble opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

[Wondrouswall.7169]

Pretty much. Though, I really think the weave/retain archetype bonus GM trait should be "Twice as Vicious" for thematic reasons. The player is fighting with the pet while pseudo-Soulbeast. Doesn't make sense to have it be called Oppressive Superiority (to me).

 

Edit: As for the last line, the above post about it being a hybrid/stance line that fits into one of the current PvE meta. Moving Predator's Cunning to an adept to take the blank spot created if minors are shifted to Live Fast and Furious Strength, then Oppressive Supremacy is moved down to a master to make way for a more thematic Twice as Vicious in the GM slots.

 

Traits would then look like this:

 

(minor adept) Elevated Bond

(minor master) Live Fast

(minor grandmaster) Furious Strength - 10% damage while under the effects of fury.

 

(adept) Predator's Cunning - as-is or possibly reduce effectiveness as an adept (up for discussion).

(master) Oppressive Supremacy - 5% damage & condition damage vs foes with lower health.

Cast Lesser Vulture Stance (4s) when striking a foe under 50% health - 30s ICD.

(grandmaster) Leader of the Pack

 

(adept) Fresh Reinforcement - changed so boons are also shared with the pet when exiting Beastmode.

(master) Essence of Speed - changed to increase archetype bonuses by 40% while under the effects of quickness.

(grandmaster) Twice as Vicious - changed to retain archetype bonuses for 10s when exiting Beastmode.

 

(adept) Unstoppable Union

(master) Second Skin - Protection also reduces condition damage. Gain Protection (3s) when gaining Unblockable.

(grandmaster) Eternal Bond - Swapping pets recharges Beastmode.

 

I think keeping Furious Strength as pure damage and bumping it to 10% is the way to go. What hyrbid Rangers lack is power while the condition side is solid. A weak spot being dagger coefficients, with the conditions that were buffed too much that it locks itself more as a PvE weapon (imo), but that's another topic. I'm being reserved from suggesting too many modifiers to affect power and condition damage so power specs (at least in PvE) don't face a constant up-hill battle to what's already meta.

 

Overall, top line is all bout Entering Beastmode and gaining an offensive measure with defensive buffer. The middle line's theme is about constantly weaving in and out of Beastmode while fighting along side with the pet. The bottom line is a hybrid line with stance sharing. Each trait in each tier being solid, with GMs that are defining, potent, and not overloaded with effects. Best part is mixing and matching. In my opinion, if we were to get _this_ trait layout, there's a lot of customization that can be done just within the Soulbeast traits, as well as synergy with core.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> Pretty much. Though, I really think the weave/retain archetype bonus GM trait should be "Twice as Vicious" for thematic reasons. The player is fighting with the pet while pseudo-Soulbeast. Doesn't make sense to have it be called Oppressive Superiority (to me).

>

> Edit: As for the last line, the above post about it being a hybrid/stance line that fits into one of the current PvE meta. Moving Predator's Cunning to an adept to take the blank spot created if minors are shifted to Live Fast and Furious Strength, then Oppressive Supremacy is moved down to a master to make way for a more thematic Twice as Vicious in the GM slots.

>

> Traits would then look like this:

>

> (minor adept) Elevated Bond

> (minor master) Live Fast

> (minor grandmaster) Furious Strength - 10% damage while under the effects of fury.

>

> (adept) Predator's Cunning - as-is or possibly reduce effectiveness as an adept (up for discussion).

> (master) Oppressive Supremacy - 5% damage & condition damage vs foes with lower health.

> Cast Lesser Vulture Stance (4s) when striking a foe under 50% health - 30s ICD.

> (grandmaster) Leader of the Pack

>

> (adept) Fresh Reinforcement - changed so boons are also shared with the pet when exiting Beastmode.

> (master) Essence of Speed - changed to increase archetype bonuses by 40% while under the effects of quickness.

> (grandmaster) Twice as Vicious - changed to retain archetype bonuses for 10s when exiting Beastmode.

>

> (adept) Unstoppable Union

> (master) Second Skin - Protection also reduces condition damage. Gain Protection (3s) when gaining Unblockable.

> (grandmaster) Eternal Bond - Swapping pets recharges Beastmode.

>

> I think keeping Furious Strength as pure damage and bumping it to 10% is the way to go. What hyrbid Rangers lack is power while the condition side is solid. A weak spot being dagger coefficients, with the conditions that were buffed too much that it locks itself more as a PvE weapon (imo), but that's another topic. I'm being reserved from suggesting too many modifiers to affect power and condition damage so power specs (at least in PvE) don't face a constant up-hill battle to what's already meta.

>

> Overall, top line is all bout Entering Beastmode and gaining an offensive measure with defensive buffer. The middle line's theme is about constantly weaving in and out of Beastmode while fighting along side with the pet. The bottom line is a hybrid line with stance sharing. Each trait in each tier being solid, with GMs that are defining, potent, and not overloaded with effects. Best part is mixing and matching. In my opinion, if we were to get _this_ trait layout, there's a lot of customization that can be done just within the Soulbeast traits, as well as synergy with core.

 

Brb copy pasting this in thread^^

WS needs some ajustements though if Sbeast is layed out this way because we lack condi duration.

An idea is to put increase bleeding duration on sharpened edges and increased poison duration on refined toxins.

Rework hidden barbs and poisonmaster and we are good to go.