Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Girth.9731" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the game launched I stood behind the idea that block and evade should just be merged. They perform the EXACT same function, which is completely mitigation of incoming damage with the exception of condi ticks. In addition, evade doesn't have any counter play. While block has unblockable skills available to multiple classes. As it stands evade should NOT be baked on to offensive skills. Defensive skills? Absolutely! But the ability to evade and deal high damage to the opponent is out of proportion. It always been. Its just that in the recent years its become a lot worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact Evades have counter play but hey that’s just knowing what skills are in game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Certain skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include: > > > > > > > > > Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Dragon's Maw, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, Temporal Curtain's cripple, and others. > > > > > > > > > The pull skill for Guardian (the chain skill of Binding Blade) and Hunter's Verdict for Dragonhunter (the chain skill of Spear of Justice) are also not able to be evaded. > > > > > > > > > Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know right? > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s almost like you’re trying to have a political discussion with far left or far right minded individual and instead of listening to logic they just... ignore it. > > > > > > > > > > Right, I even made a video of it. I have very little experience with mesmer and still was running 2v1s. It is broken as kitten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agaisnt sub par opponents. I imagine you’ve ran into ithliwen at some point. > > > > > > What pvp title do you hold again? > > > > You mean the ones that have been win traded for? > > https://imgur.com/sh1jy8g > > i put the thread up on reddit describing how it's done, so it's pretty safe to say i didn't have to win trade for mine. Where's yours? Sure. But like it’s been explained before, you may not have win trading yourself but easily could have benefitted from it. It’s a title, that means you grinded out some PvP. Good job, it’s not like the game is some competitive master piece. It means no more than having a dragon finisher which everyone has now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Girth.9731" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the game launched I stood behind the idea that block and evade should just be merged. They perform the EXACT same function, which is completely mitigation of incoming damage with the exception of condi ticks. In addition, evade doesn't have any counter play. While block has unblockable skills available to multiple classes. As it stands evade should NOT be baked on to offensive skills. Defensive skills? Absolutely! But the ability to evade and deal high damage to the opponent is out of proportion. It always been. Its just that in the recent years its become a lot worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact Evades have counter play but hey that’s just knowing what skills are in game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Certain skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include: > > > > > > > > > > Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Dragon's Maw, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, Temporal Curtain's cripple, and others. > > > > > > > > > > The pull skill for Guardian (the chain skill of Binding Blade) and Hunter's Verdict for Dragonhunter (the chain skill of Spear of Justice) are also not able to be evaded. > > > > > > > > > > Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s almost like you’re trying to have a political discussion with far left or far right minded individual and instead of listening to logic they just... ignore it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Right, I even made a video of it. I have very little experience with mesmer and still was running 2v1s. It is broken as kitten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agaisnt sub par opponents. I imagine you’ve ran into ithliwen at some point. > > > > > > > > What pvp title do you hold again? > > > > > > You mean the ones that have been win traded for? > > > > https://imgur.com/sh1jy8g > > > > i put the thread up on reddit describing how it's done, so it's pretty safe to say i didn't have to win trade for mine. Where's yours? > > Sure. But like it’s been explained before, you may not have win trading yourself but easily could have benefitted from it. > It’s a title, that means you grinded out some PvP. Good job, it’s not like the game is some competitive master piece. It means no more than having a dragon finisher which everyone has now. What, no comments on how if i'm not top 10 i can't discuss why your favorite toy is super broken? i'm hurt man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Girth.9731" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the game launched I stood behind the idea that block and evade should just be merged. They perform the EXACT same function, which is completely mitigation of incoming damage with the exception of condi ticks. In addition, evade doesn't have any counter play. While block has unblockable skills available to multiple classes. As it stands evade should NOT be baked on to offensive skills. Defensive skills? Absolutely! But the ability to evade and deal high damage to the opponent is out of proportion. It always been. Its just that in the recent years its become a lot worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact Evades have counter play but hey that’s just knowing what skills are in game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Certain skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include: > > > > > > > > > > > Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Dragon's Maw, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, Temporal Curtain's cripple, and others. > > > > > > > > > > > The pull skill for Guardian (the chain skill of Binding Blade) and Hunter's Verdict for Dragonhunter (the chain skill of Spear of Justice) are also not able to be evaded. > > > > > > > > > > > Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s almost like you’re trying to have a political discussion with far left or far right minded individual and instead of listening to logic they just... ignore it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right, I even made a video of it. I have very little experience with mesmer and still was running 2v1s. It is broken as kitten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agaisnt sub par opponents. I imagine you’ve ran into ithliwen at some point. > > > > > > > > > > What pvp title do you hold again? > > > > > > > > You mean the ones that have been win traded for? > > > > > > https://imgur.com/sh1jy8g > > > > > > i put the thread up on reddit describing how it's done, so it's pretty safe to say i didn't have to win trade for mine. Where's yours? > > > > Sure. But like it’s been explained before, you may not have win trading yourself but easily could have benefitted from it. > > It’s a title, that means you grinded out some PvP. Good job, it’s not like the game is some competitive master piece. It means no more than having a dragon finisher which everyone has now. > > What, no comments on how if i'm not top 10 i can't discuss why your favorite toy is super broken? i'm hurt man Aww don’t cry. I hate I hurt your feelings telling you that your title doesn’t mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Mesmers are a hot topic. The view and replies grow to thousands and hundreds respectively in just a day or two. I am tempted to create one so I can feel good about creating a popular thread. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 It's off season man, no clue what you'll have to fight. But you can be sure that there'll be mesmers, and they'll be rocking people until they're nerfed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > It's off season man, no clue what you'll have to fight. But you can be sure that there'll be mesmers, and they'll be rocking people until they're nerfed Except that you making false claims/not understanding mesmer problems that needs to be fixed and such... All you demand is smiters boon like everyone else and obsly not everyone want it. Imo there been plently of suggestions how to make it more balanced without destroying class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 If every other class is being gutted with this patch, mesmers should too or that's all well see next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 The real issue with Mez right now is the class just doesn't have any real weakness. It has SS tier burst damage, SS tier survival, SS tier mobility, SS tier utility, etc. It's supposed to be a jack of all trades class but the rework buffs made it a master of all trades. Anet devs need to sit around and ask themselves "What do we want the counter to mesmer to be?" -because currently there isn't one and that's the problem. You can't give a class legit everything and expect it to be fair in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragion.2831 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > The real issue with Mez right now is the class just doesn't have any real weakness. It has SS tier burst damage, SS tier survival, SS tier mobility, SS tier utility, etc. It's supposed to be a jack of all trades class but the rework buffs made it a master of all trades. Anet devs need to sit around and ask themselves "What do we want the counter to mesmer to be?" -because currently there isn't one and that's the problem. > > You can't give a class legit everything and expect it to be fair in PvP. > > This isnt the type of combat where you force weaknesses on classes. Devs tried that with necro trying to make it weak to CC and mobile classes. We've seen how that worked out. Devs tried it with Rev saying it has to be weak to condi. We've seen how that worked out. Thief also was forced to be weak to conditions a long time ago since it was good at everything, it became a problem and they ended up having to give thief cleanse on evade. With rev in particular i knew all hope was lost when id asked someone from anet in game why Rev has no cleanse, he said rev needs its weaknesses. Lol I dare one of them to say that on rev forums right now. Retired revs will come out for that one. Anyway, with GW2, the fact that you can choose when to attack and defend and use the map to your advantage means that players themselves act as weaknesses to other players by the choices they make. You can force the opponent to make certain moves that can put you in a better position so whats the point of giving a class/build an advantage over another when this isnt rock paper scissors. What always ends up happening is players become really good at exploiting weaknesses to the point where a balance patch is necessary. Besides, it really sucks when you are forced into certain death because anet has decided which build/class will work against which build/class because they are trying to create some kumbaya hold hands and coordinate pvp system (with no voice chat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > The real issue with Mez right now is the class just doesn't have any real weakness. It has SS tier burst damage, SS tier survival, SS tier mobility, SS tier utility, etc. It's supposed to be a jack of all trades class but the rework buffs made it a master of all trades. Anet devs need to sit around and ask themselves "What do we want the counter to mesmer to be?" -because currently there isn't one and that's the problem. > > You can't give a class legit everything and expect it to be fair in PvP. > > And it’s a good thing that it does have counters then isn’t it? Power shatter is weak to power builds. So... warrior, thief, guardian. It’s also weak to condi. The Chrono Phantasms build is again weak to power. Condi not so much The mirage version also weak to power and can be weak to condi. Condi shatter isn’t used. Mesmer wasn’t supposed to be s jack of all trades. It was built, from the ground up, to excel in dueling and small scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > The real issue with Mez right now is the class just doesn't have any real weakness. It has SS tier burst damage, SS tier survival, SS tier mobility, SS tier utility, etc. It's supposed to be a jack of all trades class but the rework buffs made it a master of all trades. Anet devs need to sit around and ask themselves "What do we want the counter to mesmer to be?" -because currently there isn't one and that's the problem. > > > > You can't give a class legit everything and expect it to be fair in PvP. > > > > > > And it’s a good thing that it does have counters then isn’t it? > > Power shatter is weak to power builds. So... warrior, thief, guardian. It’s also weak to condi. > > The Chrono Phantasms build is again weak to power. Condi not so much > > The mirage version also weak to power and can be weak to condi. > > Condi shatter isn’t used. > > Mesmer wasn’t supposed to be s jack of all trades. It was built, from the ground up, to excel in dueling and small scale. Nope. Mesmer was suppose to be weak to conditions and when their clones get destroyed they feel pressure. None of this happens anymore. They have condi clear as good as any other class and if you destroy their clones they just summon more and more. Actually each class had a specific weakness that anet listed, they called them "holes in roles". By the time HoT rolled around, most of those holes were gone. Here are some of them that I can remember off hand: Warrior: Low access to boons, must rely on team mates to clear condis. No way to remove enemy boons so they must power through them with raw damage. Guardian: Removing boons from them puts a lot of pressure on them, since guardian is a boon oriented class. They also have bad mobility and were designed with no real escape options. Mesmer: Bad condi removal options, destroying clones puts a lot of pressure on them. Necro: Lack of reliable stability, so they are prone to CC. Ele: I don't remember exactly, but I believe theirs was simply they were a jack of all trades. Not being extremely good at any one role. Thief: Bad access to condi removal, doesn't have access to many boons. Ranger: Don't remember Engi: Don't remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Aza.2105" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > The real issue with Mez right now is the class just doesn't have any real weakness. It has SS tier burst damage, SS tier survival, SS tier mobility, SS tier utility, etc. It's supposed to be a jack of all trades class but the rework buffs made it a master of all trades. Anet devs need to sit around and ask themselves "What do we want the counter to mesmer to be?" -because currently there isn't one and that's the problem. > > > > > > You can't give a class legit everything and expect it to be fair in PvP. > > > > > > > > > > And it’s a good thing that it does have counters then isn’t it? > > > > Power shatter is weak to power builds. So... warrior, thief, guardian. It’s also weak to condi. > > > > The Chrono Phantasms build is again weak to power. Condi not so much > > > > The mirage version also weak to power and can be weak to condi. > > > > Condi shatter isn’t used. > > > > Mesmer wasn’t supposed to be s jack of all trades. It was built, from the ground up, to excel in dueling and small scale. > > Nope. > > Mesmer was suppose to be weak to conditions and when their clones get destroyed they feel pressure. None of this happens anymore. They have condi clear as good as any other class and if you destroy their clones they just summon more and more. Actually each class had a specific weakness that anet listed, they called them "holes in roles". By the time HoT rolled around, most of those holes were gone. Here are some of them that I can remember off hand: > > Warrior: Low access to boons, must rely on team mates to clear condis. No way to remove enemy boons so they must power through them with raw damage. Has ok condi clear, resistance and with Spellbreaker removes/punishes boons. > Guardian: Removing boons from them puts a lot of pressure on them, since guardian is a boon oriented class. They also have bad mobility and were designed with no real escape options. Still have no escape options but can do well without boon. > Mesmer: Bad condi removal options, destroying clones puts a lot of pressure on them. See below. Clones being destroyed still is way to beat them. > Necro: Lack of reliable stability, so they are prone to CC. This is the only one is the truest of them all. > Ele: I don't remember exactly, but I believe theirs was simply they were a jack of all trades. Not being extremely good at any one role. Good at dps in PvE and zerging but it’s getting to be it. > Thief: Bad access to condi removal, doesn't have access to many boons. Daredevil introduced fairly good condi removal. Still no boons. > Ranger: Don't remember > Engi: Don't remember Unless you traited Inspiration, which currently one meta build does, then you are still weak to conditions. Mirage, if running EM and jaunt, will clear 5 conditions. Inspiration doesn’t synergize well with mirage but does Chrono. With Chrono it does have over the top condi clear as it can spam phantasms and shatters. This is an unintentional effect, imo, and is easily remedied by implementing a 3 phantasm limit so spamming phantasms doesn’t have any benefit. However, none of the changes do anything to actually fix the core problem in the game currently. Continuously adding boons to skills is adding a tremendous amount of power creep. This is the reason why Chrono phantasm spam works so well. With high access to a large number of boons that then is further increased by the Concentration stat it’s unbalancable without destroying everything. This is not a Mesmer centric problem however. Currently all classes are benefiting from a large access of boon and boon duration. On the other side of the coin, conditions will never be truly balanced due to expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: Here are the exact words from Anet about each class and its balance: **Warrior** We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions. **Guardian** The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage. **Ranger** The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range. **Engineer** The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons. **Thief** Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters. **Mesmer** Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks. **Ele** We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage. **Necro** The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health. **Going forward** Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta. AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches. https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Aza.2105" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > Here are the exact words from Anet about each class and its balance: > > **Warrior** > We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions. > > **Guardian** > > The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage. > > **Ranger** > > The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range. > > **Engineer** > > The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons. > > **Thief** > > Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters. > > **Mesmer** > > Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks. > > **Ele** > > We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage. > > **Necro** > > The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health. > > **Going forward** > > Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta. > > AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches. > https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012 > And all of this is based off of their plans shortly after release. We are now going on the 6th year of the game with two elite specs. Everything above is null and void so you can’t base balance now off of it. Does that mean I agree with the changes? No, they have took on more than they could handle with the introduction of elite specs as they change the premise of the game. However, without going back in time we can’t change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 omegalul tbh... Why Nowdays your BUILD have weakness depends what you take into it. Engis running pretty low on condi removals ,yet they can go for being immune to condis with new spec etc. For example druid have no weaknesses. This listed thing for 'holes in roles' doesnt applied anymore since elite specs fix them and allow to run 'broken' builds (unless its s/d thief :DDDD) Everyone forgot that to get rid of some you had to spam all shatters just to stay alive? Now condi builds was destroyed and you surprised that builds supposed to be defenseless against them do well ? Still can easly die to forgotten condi s/d thief, cant forget Misha being dying to it 1x1 all the time, 1x2 instant death. > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > Power shatter is weak to power builds. So... warrior, thief, guardian. It’s also weak to condi. > > L O L > O > L Your comment is pretty much L O L. AH,passives always been an issue to kill them because he could withstand 3~ bursts and stay alive ,not to count its not hard to dodge/block it . Thief need no introduction. DH/core always been favored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > And all of this is based off of their plans shortly after release. We are now going on the 6th year of the game with two elite specs. Everything above is null and void so you can’t base balance now off of it. > > Does that mean I agree with the changes? No, they have took on more than they could handle with the introduction of elite specs as they change the premise of the game. However, without going back in time we can’t change that. My point isn't that they should return to their class philosophy and balance around it. My point is to show what happens when you turn upon your original principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Aza.2105" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > And all of this is based off of their plans shortly after release. We are now going on the 6th year of the game with two elite specs. Everything above is null and void so you can’t base balance now off of it. > > > > Does that mean I agree with the changes? No, they have took on more than they could handle with the introduction of elite specs as they change the premise of the game. However, without going back in time we can’t change that. > > My point isn't that they should return to their class philosophy and balance around it. My point is to show what happens when you turn upon your original principles. > > And I understand. But they’ve also had a lot of positions being changed so it’s only natural for their operational agendas to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDemoNnDisguisE.8576 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Agree with OP... posted the same thing. Didn't see your thread but it does not surprise me that this topic is getting talked about in multiple places. Anet enough already with the invulnerable mesmer. I don't care that they have a lot of power but the blocks need to be toned way the fuck down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper.2650 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > > > > > > @"Girth.9731" said: > > > > > > > Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the game launched I stood behind the idea that block and evade should just be merged. They perform the EXACT same function, which is completely mitigation of incoming damage with the exception of condi ticks. In addition, evade doesn't have any counter play. While block has unblockable skills available to multiple classes. As it stands evade should NOT be baked on to offensive skills. Defensive skills? Absolutely! But the ability to evade and deal high damage to the opponent is out of proportion. It always been. Its just that in the recent years its become a lot worse. > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact Evades have counter play but hey that’s just knowing what skills are in game. > > > > > > > > > > Certain skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include: > > > > > Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Dragon's Maw, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, Temporal Curtain's cripple, and others. > > > > > The pull skill for Guardian (the chain skill of Binding Blade) and Hunter's Verdict for Dragonhunter (the chain skill of Spear of Justice) are also not able to be evaded. > > > > > Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras > > > > > > > > This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count. > > > > > > I know right? > > > > It’s almost like you’re trying to have a political discussion with far left or far right minded individual and instead of listening to logic they just... ignore it. > > Right, I even made a video of it. I have very little experience with mesmer and still was running 2v1s. It is broken as kitten. > > The only thing this video shows is 1. Some bad people 2. Your Mes skills are not bad or above average because there is no way you can faceroll a chrono with few matches 3. Mirage can be killed. You just did it @ 4:00. Period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezd.6359 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 All heavy classes use their faces to survive, to kill them you must have big burst damage. All fragile classes have tricks to survive, to kill them you must spam skills more ofthen than they can spam tricks or better time your skills. Just another tactic. If you waste all your skills on clones or evades it is pure l2p issue. P.S. Mesmer has 2 evades like other classes + 1 from sword (not in every build). If not tanky build you can hit him for 50% hp easy, some classes/skills can almost oneshot him. Sure, remove his tricks then delete the class lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"trooper.2650" said: > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > > > > > > > @"Girth.9731" said: > > > > > > > > Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the game launched I stood behind the idea that block and evade should just be merged. They perform the EXACT same function, which is completely mitigation of incoming damage with the exception of condi ticks. In addition, evade doesn't have any counter play. While block has unblockable skills available to multiple classes. As it stands evade should NOT be baked on to offensive skills. Defensive skills? Absolutely! But the ability to evade and deal high damage to the opponent is out of proportion. It always been. Its just that in the recent years its become a lot worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact Evades have counter play but hey that’s just knowing what skills are in game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Certain skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include: > > > > > > Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Dragon's Maw, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, Temporal Curtain's cripple, and others. > > > > > > The pull skill for Guardian (the chain skill of Binding Blade) and Hunter's Verdict for Dragonhunter (the chain skill of Spear of Justice) are also not able to be evaded. > > > > > > Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras > > > > > > > > > > This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count. > > > > > > > > I know right? > > > > > > It’s almost like you’re trying to have a political discussion with far left or far right minded individual and instead of listening to logic they just... ignore it. > > > > Right, I even made a video of it. I have very little experience with mesmer and still was running 2v1s. It is broken as kitten. > > > > > > The only thing this video shows is 1. Some bad people 2. Your Mes skills are not bad or above average because there is no way you can faceroll a chrono with few matches 3. Mirage can be killed. You just did it @ 4:00. Period > The video also shows that I have around 300 games played as mes over the last 5 years, I picked up what I'm doing in that video over the course of an afternoon. It's really not hard to pick up since half the skills make you invuln. That mirage got me 3:1 over that match man, I got lucky but thought it was a good clip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"trooper.2650" said: > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Girth.9731" said: > > > > > > > > > Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the game launched I stood behind the idea that block and evade should just be merged. They perform the EXACT same function, which is completely mitigation of incoming damage with the exception of condi ticks. In addition, evade doesn't have any counter play. While block has unblockable skills available to multiple classes. As it stands evade should NOT be baked on to offensive skills. Defensive skills? Absolutely! But the ability to evade and deal high damage to the opponent is out of proportion. It always been. Its just that in the recent years its become a lot worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact Evades have counter play but hey that’s just knowing what skills are in game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Certain skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include: > > > > > > > Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Dragon's Maw, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, Temporal Curtain's cripple, and others. > > > > > > > The pull skill for Guardian (the chain skill of Binding Blade) and Hunter's Verdict for Dragonhunter (the chain skill of Spear of Justice) are also not able to be evaded. > > > > > > > Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras > > > > > > > > > > > > This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count. > > > > > > > > > > I know right? > > > > > > > > It’s almost like you’re trying to have a political discussion with far left or far right minded individual and instead of listening to logic they just... ignore it. > > > > > > Right, I even made a video of it. I have very little experience with mesmer and still was running 2v1s. It is broken as kitten. > > > > > > > > > > The only thing this video shows is 1. Some bad people 2. Your Mes skills are not bad or above average because there is no way you can faceroll a chrono with few matches 3. Mirage can be killed. You just did it @ 4:00. Period > > > > The video also shows that I have around 300 games played as mes over the last 5 years, I picked up what I'm doing in that video over the course of an afternoon. It's really not hard to pick up since half the skills make you invuln. > > That mirage got me 3:1 over that match man, I got lucky but thought it was a good clip Any build will obliterate potatoes **that don’t dodge a single hard hitting skill and are more concerned with standing on a point and tanking everything with stats**. I have a video of me killing a berserker and reaper in WvW on core Mesmer before either of those classes were properly toned down, doesn’t mean core Mesmer was strong just my opponents were abysmally bad and I made enough mistakes I should have died had 1 of them been anything but utter garbage, I mean Dom, duel, insp wasn’t even a great build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > @"trooper.2650" said: > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Aza.2105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Girth.9731" said: > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the game launched I stood behind the idea that block and evade should just be merged. They perform the EXACT same function, which is completely mitigation of incoming damage with the exception of condi ticks. In addition, evade doesn't have any counter play. While block has unblockable skills available to multiple classes. As it stands evade should NOT be baked on to offensive skills. Defensive skills? Absolutely! But the ability to evade and deal high damage to the opponent is out of proportion. It always been. Its just that in the recent years its become a lot worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact Evades have counter play but hey that’s just knowing what skills are in game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Certain skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include: > > > > > > > > Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Dragon's Maw, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, Temporal Curtain's cripple, and others. > > > > > > > > The pull skill for Guardian (the chain skill of Binding Blade) and Hunter's Verdict for Dragonhunter (the chain skill of Spear of Justice) are also not able to be evaded. > > > > > > > > Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know right? > > > > > > > > > > It’s almost like you’re trying to have a political discussion with far left or far right minded individual and instead of listening to logic they just... ignore it. > > > > > > > > Right, I even made a video of it. I have very little experience with mesmer and still was running 2v1s. It is broken as kitten. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing this video shows is 1. Some bad people 2. Your Mes skills are not bad or above average because there is no way you can faceroll a chrono with few matches 3. Mirage can be killed. You just did it @ 4:00. Period > > > > > > > The video also shows that I have around 300 games played as mes over the last 5 years, I picked up what I'm doing in that video over the course of an afternoon. It's really not hard to pick up since half the skills make you invuln. > > > > That mirage got me 3:1 over that match man, I got lucky but thought it was a good clip > > Any build will obliterate potatoes **that don’t dodge a single hard hitting skill and are more concerned with standing on a point and tanking everything with stats**. I have a video of me killing a berserker and reaper in WvW on core Mesmer before either of those classes were properly toned down, doesn’t mean core Mesmer was strong just my opponents were abysmally bad and I made enough mistakes I should have died had 1 of them been anything but utter garbage, I mean Dom, duel, insp wasn’t even a great build. 2v1 even against bad players is a bad match up for the 1. Mesmers can still regularly win those fights due to the very forgiving nature of the class, the combination of high damage and high damage mitigation needs addressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilli.2976 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Mirage needs their dodge stomp nerfed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper.2650 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Chilli.2976" said: > Mirage needs their dodge stomp nerfed > Nobody says anything about scrapper gyro stomps or dare devil elite skill. It's part of the package. Live with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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