bravan.3876 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Confounding Suggestion got a 15 sec cd in pvp and wvw what is a big nerf. Making it not proc for 100% will higher the rng what is never good in competitive modes, the mesmer should still be able to work with the stun he can't do it when it procs randomly. Try it first with a 10 secs cd would have been a better way, with 15secs it is clearly not op in any way anymore. The only problem i see in the mirage traitline is Elusive Mind, the nerf was done in a bad way indeed. The stunbreak should just get removed completely. Otherwise i mostly agree with your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rank eleven monk.9502 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Stopped reading at claiming Duelist line is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I largely disagree honestly. You claim dueling is a throwaway line. You also complain about confounding suggestions without even completely understanding the trait. It has a 5sec ICD. It cannot proc back to back. Maybe the ICD is too short, maybe it isn't, and that is a debate that I'm sure some would like to have. But its not relevant here really, since you didn't seem aware of that fact in your initial post. I wonder how impartial you are honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said: > Stopped reading at claiming Duelist line is bad. I think he means that the other traitlines offer more things, that is a common PoV as far as i know. It is ofc not bad just worse than all other lines, at least it was before Superiority Complex was added. A trait i would also nerf btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Mirage problems are imho 2. 1. Mirage cloak, which allow not only to attacco while dodging, but also to use an enhanched version of the attacco itself. Solution, remove it. No class should be able to attack while dodging. Let him use the ambush for 1 sec after the dodge has expired. 2. Elusive mind. Solution, Remove stunbreak effect at all. 1 condi removed per dodge ( even if you don't dodge any attack is definitely good as tier 3. Thief tier 2 requires you to dodge an attack in order to proc ). Eventually entirely rework the trait. Mesmer fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > I largely disagree honestly. You claim dueling is a throwaway line. That wasn’t my intention at all. I’ll edit the post accordingly. I meant other lines were better than Dueling. >You also complain about confounding suggestions without even completely understanding the trait. It has a 5sec ICD. It cannot proc back to back. I was saying if you break stun of the first, you will get caught to the second daze. Or if you get dazed while it’s on CD, and break it, you’ll get caught to the stun. >Maybe the ICD is too short, maybe it isn't, and that is a debate that I'm sure some would like to have. But its not relevant here really, since you didn't seem aware of that fact in your initial post. > > I wonder how impartial you are honestly. I really should start taking English courses to tell what I actually mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > Mirage problems are imho 2. > > 1. Mirage cloak, which allow not only to attacco while dodging, but also to use an enhanched version of the attacco itself. Solution, remove it. No class should be able to attack while dodging. Let him use the ambush for 1 sec after the dodge has expired. Means just lets delete Mirage lel. That they can cast during dodge don't make them unbeatable or uncounterable, this is a l2p issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > Mirage problems are imho 2. > > 1. Mirage cloak, which allow not only to attacco while dodging, but also to use an enhanched version of the attacco itself. Solution, remove it. No class should be able to attack while dodging. Let him use the ambush for 1 sec after the dodge has expired. > "Let's eliminate the class mechanic. That's a smart change." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > Mirage problems are imho 2. > > > > 1. Mirage cloak, which allow not only to attacco while dodging, but also to use an enhanched version of the attacco itself. Solution, remove it. No class should be able to attack while dodging. Let him use the ambush for 1 sec after the dodge has expired. > > Means just lets delete Mirage lel. That they can cast during dodge don't make them unbeatable or uncounterable, this is a l2p issue. > > I don't know maybe he has a point. Scourge shouldn't be able to use other skills while using sand shroud. Same with soulbeasts when they merge with their pets. No other skill use. Let's "fix" all the PoF classes like this: Holosmith: Photon forge drains endurance Firebrand: Lose utility and elite when opening a book. Can't close the book until they've finished it. Renegade: Citadel skills require a renegade stance to use Spellbreaker: Use of full counter uses all adrenaline and prevents any new adrenaline gain for 20 seconds Deadeye: Can only attack and damage marked target Weaver: Must pick two attunements and can only use those. Can still mix them. There, now every PoF spec is worse than Core or HoT specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > Mirage problems are imho 2. > > There, now every PoF spec is worse than Core or HoT specs. Finally a good solution, ppl cry even about a pure glass core shattermes, making pof even worse than that maybe ends the hate. Even tho i'm sure ppl will still find soemthing about a worse than core-mesmer to cry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > Mirage problems are imho 2. > > > > 1. Mirage cloak, which allow not only to attacco while dodging, but also to use an enhanched version of the attacco itself. Solution, remove it. No class should be able to attack while dodging. Let him use the ambush for 1 sec after the dodge has expired. > > > "Let's eliminate the class mechanic. That's a smart change." > If it's broken the first you admit and fix it the better. White knightism brings to nowhere. Eh it's broken but it's what differences mesmers from other classes... ...oh Well then it's ok then. I guess. And I also remember than mesmers were able to win without casting during dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 They also weren't always considered op when they could cast during dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezd.6359 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Absinthey.5340" said: > > Logged on for the first time in a while. > > > > Went to FFA Arena. > > > > Fought a Mesmer. > > > > Exited Game and Uninstalled Gw2. > > > > Been fun I guess o/ > > That's pretty much how it went the last time I uninstalled. > > It's actually WORSE now. Alternatively you can find a corner and cry, after a hour or two return back to play like a man with... sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"Ario.8964" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > > oh look he got destroyed against actually good players what a surprise. > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing against him but can we stop with this mes stuff, we all know it's broken but you don't need to make 5 threads per day about it. > > > > > > > > > > You do realize he isn't complaining about mesmer yeah? He's linking the twitch of a good player for other people to enjoy, what's wrong with that? > > > > > > > > He did the same yesterday linking a stream of Blackjack playing mesmer while he's a guardian main, if he wants to prove mesmer is broken this is not the right way to do it. > > > > > > Or he thinks blackjack is doing a good job and is promoting the last of the few even decent players left. He and I both know shorts and play with him a ton so I'm 95% sure he's doing this to promote a friend who likes to showcase his gameplay. Nobody needs to prove mesmer is broken cause everyone knows it, I see this and the blackjack link as promotion of fellow players and commendation for their play, but to each their own I suppose. > > > > No he was not only posting the thread with black Jack he clearly also complained about how ez a guy not even main mesmer destroy ppl, during showing unranked NA footage with ppl backbaddle and ignoring him complete. Black Jack was not even playing an op build, he just got free kills because of very not so good opponents. These kind of footage proves nothing about how op something is. And ppl rly should l2discern between different builds. This mesmer here playing chrono phantasm spam with chaosline what ofc is a broken build still. > > Well then, I see I have made an error about the Blackjack (I abbreviated and filters didn't like my abbreviation XD) thread. This one I stand by what I said, I don't think the OP's intention with this thread was to complain about mesmer even if the other threads were for that. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... It must be an Elephant? All classes but Rev/Thief are my mains... Mesmer is OP in some areas but people like OP have the torches ready to burn the whole class down. The most OP thing about Mesmer will never get nerfed either and that's the psychological effect it has on players because it is a class that can literally confuse the player if played right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > Mirage problems are imho 2. > > > > > > 1. Mirage cloak, which allow not only to attacco while dodging, but also to use an enhanched version of the attacco itself. Solution, remove it. No class should be able to attack while dodging. Let him use the ambush for 1 sec after the dodge has expired. > > > > > "Let's eliminate the class mechanic. That's a smart change." > > > > If it's broken the first you admit and fix it the better. White knightism brings to nowhere. > > Eh it's broken but it's what differences mesmers from other classes... > > ...oh Well then it's ok then. > I guess. > > And I also remember than mesmers were able to win without casting during dodge. Aside from Elusive Mind I really don't think the Mirage specialization is the problem. The Chaos and illusions lines are really the biggest culprits with mesmer right now. Not only does chaos provide absurd amounts of buffs, but also stability on Shatter is insane, and chaos storm having something as powerful as aegis in it's random assortment of boon is not good. Also they're problematic because the might stacking potential of one adds to the might stacking potential of another and it creates this feedback loop that allows them to get 25 might relatively easily on their own (Though the balance patch addressed most of this). If I had to pick the key problems with Mesmer it's this. Not because they can cast through Mirage Cloak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Constructive feedback from person that know too little about mesmer... Amazing... (/sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelada.2947 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 i will put this simple : a class with stealth and a clone mechanic should not have the defensive capabilites the mesmer has, it's just bad design. On top of that add the terrible noisy design of the class and everything just goes to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > > > oh look he got destroyed against actually good players what a surprise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing against him but can we stop with this mes stuff, we all know it's broken but you don't need to make 5 threads per day about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > You do realize he isn't complaining about mesmer yeah? He's linking the twitch of a good player for other people to enjoy, what's wrong with that? > > > > > > > > > > He did the same yesterday linking a stream of Blackjack playing mesmer while he's a guardian main, if he wants to prove mesmer is broken this is not the right way to do it. > > > > > > > > Or he thinks blackjack is doing a good job and is promoting the last of the few even decent players left. He and I both know shorts and play with him a ton so I'm 95% sure he's doing this to promote a friend who likes to showcase his gameplay. Nobody needs to prove mesmer is broken cause everyone knows it, I see this and the blackjack link as promotion of fellow players and commendation for their play, but to each their own I suppose. > > > > > > No he was not only posting the thread with black Jack he clearly also complained about how ez a guy not even main mesmer destroy ppl, during showing unranked NA footage with ppl backbaddle and ignoring him complete. Black Jack was not even playing an op build, he just got free kills because of very not so good opponents. These kind of footage proves nothing about how op something is. And ppl rly should l2discern between different builds. This mesmer here playing chrono phantasm spam with chaosline what ofc is a broken build still. > > > > Well then, I see I have made an error about the Blackjack (I abbreviated and filters didn't like my abbreviation XD) thread. This one I stand by what I said, I don't think the OP's intention with this thread was to complain about mesmer even if the other threads were for that. > > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... It must be an Elephant? > > All classes but Rev/Thief are my mains... Mesmer is OP in some areas but people like OP have the torches ready to burn the whole class down. > The most OP thing about Mesmer will never get nerfed either and that's the psychological effect it has on players because it is a class that can literally confuse the player if played right. because the OP has demanded everything to be nerf down the ground right? The OP doesn't touch the mesmer class at all either? I guess we can just assume things because the class is down right broken to it's core and everyone in their moms that plays the class wants to keep it as is because it's in such a "good spot". The only thing the "OP" has ever truly complained about what the amount of clones/phants that's put out during a single fight. It's a major cluster fuck and beyond stupid for multiple reasons. But again Let's Keep QQing about mesmer threads being made because said person doesn't like seeing it, even though the purpose of the last 2 posted were for obv promoting purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > > > oh look he got destroyed against actually good players what a surprise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing against him but can we stop with this mes stuff, we all know it's broken but you don't need to make 5 threads per day about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > You do realize he isn't complaining about mesmer yeah? He's linking the twitch of a good player for other people to enjoy, what's wrong with that? > > > > > > > > > > He did the same yesterday linking a stream of Blackjack playing mesmer while he's a guardian main, if he wants to prove mesmer is broken this is not the right way to do it. > > > > > > > > Or he thinks blackjack is doing a good job and is promoting the last of the few even decent players left. He and I both know shorts and play with him a ton so I'm 95% sure he's doing this to promote a friend who likes to showcase his gameplay. Nobody needs to prove mesmer is broken cause everyone knows it, I see this and the blackjack link as promotion of fellow players and commendation for their play, but to each their own I suppose. > > > > > > No he was not only posting the thread with black Jack he clearly also complained about how ez a guy not even main mesmer destroy ppl, during showing unranked NA footage with ppl backbaddle and ignoring him complete. Black Jack was not even playing an op build, he just got free kills because of very not so good opponents. These kind of footage proves nothing about how op something is. And ppl rly should l2discern between different builds. This mesmer here playing chrono phantasm spam with chaosline what ofc is a broken build still. > > > > Well then, I see I have made an error about the Blackjack (I abbreviated and filters didn't like my abbreviation XD) thread. This one I stand by what I said, I don't think the OP's intention with this thread was to complain about mesmer even if the other threads were for that. > > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... It must be an Elephant? > > All classes but Rev/Thief are my mains... Mesmer is OP in some areas but people like OP have the torches ready to burn the whole class down. > The most OP thing about Mesmer will never get nerfed either and that's the psychological effect it has on players because it is a class that can literally confuse the player if played right. I admit to being wrong about something and explain why that mistake doesn't apply to this instance... people look at it and try to make smart ass comments.... and everyone wonders why nothing gets done? Just because OP wants mesmer nerfed doesn't mean every time he says the word "mesmer" he is going on a crusade against the class. He shared a friend's stream for the sake of getting him viewers and you all want to crucify him for sharing a mesmer main's stream because he said somewhere else he wants mes nerfed? Really? I agree mes needs nerfs and I agree most people don't know shit about the class and are crying for absurd nerfs but be reasonable. It's a stream link, get the fuck over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"bravan.3876" said: > Confounding Suggestion got a 15 sec cd in pvp and wvw what is a big nerf. Making it not proc for 100% will higher the rng what is never good in competitive modes, the mesmer should still be able to work with the stun he can't do it when it procs randomly. Try it first with a 10 secs cd would have been a better way, with 15secs it is clearly not op in any way anymore. The only problem i see in the mirage traitline is Elusive Mind, the nerf was done in a bad way indeed. The stunbreak should just get removed completely. Otherwise i mostly agree with your post. Genuine question: If they changed CS to a 10 sec cd and added a little indicator on the player that the trait was up do you think that'd be too obvious as a tell for the trait to be used or would it still be a worthwhile choice for mesmer builds? If not just adding an indicator and leaving it at 5 seconds would be fine for me (Other people may say it's still too strong but once every 5 seconds isn't too bad imo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Just undo the UC nerf and all the auto attack nerfs for thief and all is well. Edit: and take the cooldown off stealth attacks bro **Okay, I know some expected more, so I will give it. The mesmer may indeed be fine, but a few classes can't really compete. I won't give a list but I bet others can. How could you class be adjusted to make the fight more fair? Leave poor mesmer baby alone.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"Ario.8964" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > Confounding Suggestion got a 15 sec cd in pvp and wvw what is a big nerf. Making it not proc for 100% will higher the rng what is never good in competitive modes, the mesmer should still be able to work with the stun he can't do it when it procs randomly. Try it first with a 10 secs cd would have been a better way, with 15secs it is clearly not op in any way anymore. The only problem i see in the mirage traitline is Elusive Mind, the nerf was done in a bad way indeed. The stunbreak should just get removed completely. Otherwise i mostly agree with your post. > > Genuine question: If they changed CS to a 10 sec cd and added a little indicator on the player that the trait was up do you think that'd be too obvious as a tell for the trait to be used or would it still be a worthwhile choice for mesmer builds? If not just adding an indicator and leaving it at 5 seconds would be fine for me (Other people may say it's still too strong but once every 5 seconds isn't too bad imo) 10s with indication would give mesmer control over it,would be very good for mesmer and probs wont help enemies at all ... But 15s and no tell tell when its ready...thats very bad ...but no real choice there... But nerfing CS+ anguish wasnt enough ! They decided to nerf a greatsword thats being used for 1 build on top of this 2 traits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Since mesmer is a hot topic and might be getting dev eyes, how about a stealth cancelling option. What I mean is, dump stealth off yourself, cancel your own stealth. I mean mesmers got stealth, it is kinda on topic....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 What can one say.. I am not even mad any more.. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Here is some constructive feedback.. diversity in builds makes the game interesting to play.. When we can tell each players build before a game starts.. something is very very... boring.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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