Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Aza.2105]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> -Should honestly get an emergency nerf before the season starts or soon within it

 

And that is the problem. It won't happen. We will be stuck the entire season or multiple seasons with Mesmer as it currently is. This is Anet's vicious balance cycle. They drop a balance patch, but do not address real issues and then we are forced to deal with it for many months.

 

If Mesmer and Scourge were removed from spvp, then balance would actually be pretty good.

 

 

 

[musu.9205]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > -Should honestly get an emergency nerf before the season starts or soon within it

>

> And that is the problem. It won't happen. We will be stuck the entire season or multiple seasons with Mesmer as it currently is. This is Anet's vicious balance cycle. They drop a balance patch, but do not address real issues and then we are forced to deal with it for many months.

>

> If Mesmer and Scourge were removed from spvp, then balance would actually be pretty good.

>

>

>

 

typical pvp forum : we don't want to discuss what proper nerf is for mes (mes does need nerf ) but hey we are here to ask anet to remove mesmer from pvp entirely .

wonder why anet didn't follow ?

 

it's funny if you look back all posts in this thread , most reasonable nerf ideas (not those removing class mechanic ones )came from mesmer who are supposed to defend mes class to death according pvp forum .

 

how about focus on topic

main problem also easy to fix ones :

 

EM

phantasm damage with certain traits combined

 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > TL;DR:

> > -Rework was an overbuff to a class that was already very viable

> > -Overwhelming majority of top players agree it's busted now

> > -nerfs hit other classes harder, resulting in mes being even stronger now

> > -Should honestly get an emergency nerf before the season starts or soon within it

> > -Current meta is a legit "Why play anything but mes" meta.

>

> 1. the rework was a buff to power build which was not meta in any way while same patch anet did nerf old condi mirage meta into oblivion .keep trying

> 2. we still saw some of those so called top players made misleading information of mesmer on forum (tho agree , some part of mes is bursted

> 3. patch was meant to deal with passive gameplay

> 4. maybe but what nerf ? the emergency nerf pvp forum are talking about is basically removing mesmer from pvp . complaint literally listed everything mesmer does and call them op . how to nerf mesmer properly is why we are here .

> 5. its not . there are some duo mesmer comp but that's it . a "balanced "comp still wins , mes isn't cele ele .

 

See, I agree with 100% of your post and your general stance on mesmer right now. It is possible to be a reasonable mesmer main.

 

My biggest problem with mesmer is that it was already top tier meta, got a rework in which it changed from one top tier meta build to another one while other classes could use reworks and get none, then a passive rework patch basically hit everything besides mesmer. And I think this is the problem people have right now - why the hell is mesmer getting reworks and avoiding nerfs when they've needed nerfs for so long, and several other classes already got the bat?

 

Anet is really clearly favoring mesmer here.

[musu.9205]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"musu.9205" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > TL;DR:

> > > -Rework was an overbuff to a class that was already very viable

> > > -Overwhelming majority of top players agree it's busted now

> > > -nerfs hit other classes harder, resulting in mes being even stronger now

> > > -Should honestly get an emergency nerf before the season starts or soon within it

> > > -Current meta is a legit "Why play anything but mes" meta.

> >

> > 1. the rework was a buff to power build which was not meta in any way while same patch anet did nerf old condi mirage meta into oblivion .keep trying

> > 2. we still saw some of those so called top players made misleading information of mesmer on forum (tho agree , some part of mes is bursted

> > 3. patch was meant to deal with passive gameplay

> > 4. maybe but what nerf ? the emergency nerf pvp forum are talking about is basically removing mesmer from pvp . complaint literally listed everything mesmer does and call them op . how to nerf mesmer properly is why we are here .

> > 5. its not . there are some duo mesmer comp but that's it . a "balanced "comp still wins , mes isn't cele ele .

>

> See, I agree with 100% of your post and your general stance on mesmer right now. It is possible to be a reasonable mesmer main.

>

> My biggest problem with mesmer is that it was already top tier meta, got a rework in which it changed from one top tier meta build to another one while other classes could use reworks and get none, then a passive rework patch basically hit everything besides mesmer. And I think this is the problem people have right now - why the hell is mesmer getting reworks and avoiding nerfs when they've needed nerfs for so long, and several other classes already got the bat?

>

> Anet is really clearly favoring mesmer here.

 

i think its more like they dont know where to start the nerf . the rework wasn't meant to be the buff /nerf to mesmer , it was to build something fundamentally better for mesmer class which also means it's easier to balance cross all game modes now . i can understand the salt from other players tho . but it's better for anet to adjust new mesmer tools properly than kneel jerk nerfs . and for the record , i think anet should rework rev and maybe engi next . some are long due

 

and tbh the average pvp skill level is lower than it once was . do we balance game around the new standard of average or the highest potential ? it may sound easier but if from anet point of view , its hard enough especially considering pvp population .

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > TL;DR:

> > -Rework was an overbuff to a class that was already very viable

> > -Overwhelming majority of top players agree it's busted now

> > -nerfs hit other classes harder, resulting in mes being even stronger now

> > -Should honestly get an emergency nerf before the season starts or soon within it

> > -Current meta is a legit "Why play anything but mes" meta.

>

> 1. the rework was a buff to power build which was not meta in any way while same patch anet did nerf old condi mirage meta into oblivion .keep trying

> 2. we still saw some of those so called top players made misleading information of mesmer on forum (tho agree , some part of mes is bursted

> 3. patch was meant to deal with passive gameplay

> 4. maybe but what nerf ? the emergency nerf pvp forum are talking about is basically removing mesmer from pvp . complaint literally listed everything mesmer does and call them op . how to nerf mesmer properly is why we are here .

> 5. its not . there are some duo mesmer comp but that's it . a "balanced "comp still wins , mes isn't cele ele .

 

For 4, I have no idea how Imagined Burden+Chronophantasma+Signet of the Ether combo was allowed out the gate. At the very least Imagined Burden should have the double summon removed _immediately_. Even if it wasn't good, it's just extremely unhealthy game play wise and visually to have something that clutters up the screen as much as that one combo can. It's just gross. It's like the entire zoo meta of old tiers of clutter packed onto one build.

 

I'd also condense Phantasmal Warlocks into one phantasm. You can combine their damage and vulnerability application into one phantasm, but it's just adding more gross clutter for no reason to have two phantasms on this one skill, even if I as a staff mesmer reaaally like getting two clones from this skill.

 

Elusive Mind is also a trait that's just too powerful to exist in it's current form, as people have been saying from the start. I don't know what else you'd do with it. Ideally you'd want something fun that plays into Mirage's theme of being intangible without being absurdly powerful but I don't know what. In the meantime you can just nerf it into two condi cleanse on dodge or something.

 

I think all of these are emergency level changes that should happen. immediately.

[Odik.4587]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > -Should honestly get an emergency nerf before the season starts or soon within it

> >

> > And that is the problem. It won't happen. We will be stuck the entire season or multiple seasons with Mesmer as it currently is. This is Anet's vicious balance cycle. They drop a balance patch, but do not address real issues and then we are forced to deal with it for many months.

> >

> > If Mesmer and Scourge were removed from spvp, then balance would actually be pretty good.

> >

> >

> >

>

> typical pvp forum : we don't want to discuss what proper nerf is for mes (mes does need nerf ) but hey we are here to ask anet to remove mesmer from pvp entirely .

> wonder why anet didn't follow ?

>

> it's funny if you look back all posts in this thread , most reasonable nerf ideas (not those removing class mechanic ones )came from mesmer who are supposed to defend mes class to death according pvp forum .

>

> how about focus on topic

> main problem also easy to fix ones :

>

> EM

> phantasm damage with certain traits combined

>

 

Who you talking about tho ? Which mesmer? (imma curious)

We still saw some of those so called top players made misleading information of mesmer on forum© .Who are 'top' players ? xD

[Aenaos.8160]

Isn't it strange that simplifying the mechanics of the class,while retaining all the qualities that made

it powerful before the rework,resulted in a even more powerful class?

Who could have known..........

 

[CreedOfGod.9764]

Joining the party late, figured this is the best place for an opinion though.

 

I'm biased because i'm a thief main, but I do not think that there should be another class with *more* mobility AND *more* damage than thief. Thief has been hit several times in the patches, from what im assuming is because of crazy mobility combined with burst, we have been toned down. Mirage has a plethora of evades, invulns/reflects teleports/ leaps/ invisibility/stuns/range/melee everything. Thief does have some of these tools, but no where near the level of mirage, not even daredevil is this efficient. I all for mirage being a master of misdirection, but mirage, for lack of a better statement, is just a straight up better thief.

 

Mirage being able to burst is fine.

Mirage being able to juke and misdirect opponents is fine

Mirage having more mobility than base mesmer/chrono is fine

 

Mirage being able to out run a thief that is using every available resource is not fine

Mirage having more single target teleports, shadowsteps, stealth and more burst than thief, is not fine.

Mirage being able to out burst a thief in full glass and have access to invuln + constant evade is not fine

(mind wrack doing as much as a backstab, without any of the required preparation)

Mirage summoning 60 clones at once is scary and I don't understand it

Jaunt should have a longer cooldown (3-5 seconds)

Sword ambush should be a smaller leap

Illusionary ambush should be 900 range not 1200

Mirage gets superspeed on dodge, when thief ("the most mobile class") only has superspeed when stealing from a ranger?

 

 

 

/rant

 

 

 

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > Seeing as we now have confirmation the devs are reading it, let's keep it constructive rather than 80% of the pre merged posts.

> >

> > "Okay first of all I would like to see Mirage and Scourge permanently deleted from the game. And Chronomancer locked into PvE only. I'm the only person here with any reasonable positions and the dev team are nothing but memes."

>

> Done mocking? Good. Glad you got it out of your system.

>

> Now that you're back with the rest of us, both scourge and mesmer have issues in PvP, but they differ significantly in the cause.

>

> * Scourge is overpowered because its fundamental mechanics (sand shade skills) are unbalanced and braindead to use.

> * Mesmer is unbalanced because of the sheer volume of temp invulns/evades/blocks/etc. combined with an excess of illusion vomit on the screen and high damage. Two mesmers in a fight makes it nearly impossible to figure out what the hell is going on if you're not those mesmers. Mesmer is _**supposed**_ to be hard to track, but not because of [information overload](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_overload "information overload").

 

To add onto this as well, scourge is also overpowered because the Sand Savant trait only trades off a tiny, insignificant thing: the ability to have 3 shades placed on the map at any given time. But, sand savant also enlarges their area of effect significantly, and it's still spammable, whilst also making said shade act as 3 shades in one. The trade off is very minor.

I'd suggest putting a flat 8-10 second cd for the sand shade skill when traiting sand savant, which would cause scourges to really think hard about how and where they lay their shade. Don't give it charges anymore, it doesn't need them.

It's difficult trying to place yourself strategically to counterplay a scourge when they can lay a shade big enough to cover all of tyria every second for 3 charges, and each charge having an 8 second cd, AS WELL as the shade skills also pulsing around the scourge itself. These are the reasonings behind my suggested changes.

[Odik.4587]

> @"CreedOfGod.9764" said:

> Joining the party late, figured this is the best place for an opinion though.

>

> I'm biased because i'm a thief main, but I do not think that there should be another class with *more* mobility AND *more* damage than thief. Thief has been hit several times in the patches, from what im assuming is because of crazy mobility combined with burst, we have been toned down. Mirage has a plethora of evades, invulns/reflects teleports/ leaps/ invisibility/stuns/range/melee everything. Thief does have some of these tools, but no where near the level of mirage, not even daredevil is this efficient. I all for mirage being a master of misdirection, but mirage, for lack of a better statement, is just a straight up better thief.

>

> Mirage being able to burst is fine.

> Mirage being able to juke and misdirect opponents is fine

> Mirage having more mobility than base mesmer/chrono is fine

>

> Mirage being able to out run a thief that is using every available resource is not fine - True with a portal ;)

> Mirage having more single target teleports, shadowsteps, stealth and more burst than thief, is not fine. - False

> Mirage being able to out burst a thief in full glass and have access to invuln + constant evade is not fine -> You really complaint about nerfed GS build ... Really... ?:D

> (mind wrack doing as much as a backstab, without any of the required preparation) - False

> Mirage summoning 60 clones at once is scary and I don't understand it - False

> Jaunt should have a longer cooldown (3-5 seconds) It has 'charges' and its cd 20s

> Sword ambush should be a smaller leap - Make it 500 and FFS FIX THIS NOT HITTING TARGET 80% oF TIME OK??????

> Illusionary ambush should be 900 range not 1200 WHY?:DDDDDDDDD random teleport scares you ?

> Mirage gets superspeed on dodge, when thief ("the most mobile class") only has superspeed when stealing from a ranger? - You dont even know WHY ?i will forgive you here, because you dont move anywhere when you press dodge :D

>

> /rant

>

:3

[Nightmare.1234]

I'm a core Mesmer main, the issues are defiantly with mirage and chronomancer. mirage with its high evades and ambush bursts. on top it has access to large amounts of extra Condi cleanse over core Mesmer. but both these specs have same issues, access to high burst while still keeping a lot of defence.

 

mirage should of been given just the ambush skills as an f5 on a cool down without combining it with dodges or mirage mirror mechanic

chrono should be a more defensive support spec but due to the phantasm buffs and Mesmer overhaul and their ability to mass generate stuff it as pushed them into high damage and defence by mistake. not sure how this could be fixed without hurting core Mesmer thou.

 

it not just Mesmer that suffers from these badly designed elite specs. elite spec were meant to push a profession into a different role but instead they just layer a role on top of its core role with no trade off causing this power creep.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

@arenanet Would you mind stop to work a few minutes and watch Helseth streaming Mirage right now? Just to see how broken this class is in the hands of a good player... And I'm not here to complain just to pin point a fact...

You can ask him what to nerf cause I have no idea where to start

[Marxx.5021]

The only real issue is the time anet requires to balance classes for PvP. Why are there no small adjustments with traits for PvP whenever a problem becomes obvious?

[zoopop.5630]

play a "tank" role to support to only get shutdown in seconds but a combined mirage and chrono spam at a point. you can clear condi off and have 50% damage reduce with no issues but still die to a combo of 2 mesmer is just dumb. No other class at the moment can do what mesmers can in the aspect of everything including dps and holding a point. they need a huge tone down in a few areas specially the 25might stack on auto hit from ambush....

[Arioch.4810]

State of Mesmer - topic that generates more heat than Incinerator's blade :)

I am playing a lot of GW2 this past 2 months - and i mean a lot. I noticed in that time that number of mesmer and scourge players i encounter every day is growing.

In WvW thanks to "pirate ship" tactics Scourges are a source of much bigger headache than Mesmers, if you play in a big group. In smaller skirmishes, Mesmers are more valuable for me thanks to mobility they offer not just to themselves but to the team in general.

In PvP, mesmer is currently the best profession -since you can't enter into match with 5 selected players*. (I'm disregarding tournaments here obv.)

Mesmer competes with thief often in that +1/decap role, but having multiples of Mesmers on the team does not devalue them the same way it happens to other professions, thanks to the kit they bring to the table. Btw, i do believe +1/decap role is not the best role for mesmer, but he will fit it to perfection when needed.

 

While other professions need to 'get lucky' with queue and get workable comp to compete in a match with opponents of similar skill level, Mesmer needs to coordinate roles with the team and dodges many of the issues that shows up when you have, for instance, 2 warriors, guardians, or thieves. I did not encounter 3 Mesmers in a team yet to see how would that affect them.

This is my sole complaint on profession - thanks to adaptable nature of the kit, there is advantage for Mesmers in pickup games where team composition is up to luck.

 

Btw, i also play a lot of PvE: If you touch that portal in Mesmer's kit, PvE community will have some things to say. Loudly. While holding pitchforks :)

 

I play Spellbreaker as my "main" and some Daredevil on the side. Then again, I am competitive person by nature, and since i played 160 arena matches in last 3 months - i decided to set aside some character slots and resources - developing tools that will give me equal footing, or competitive edge with some luck, for next season. So now i have lvl 80 Mesmer and Necro.

 

Here's a hypothetical question for all of us: You enter queue for arena, and system opens a panel with question: Guarantee 1 Mesmer in team composition yes/no?

How would you answer?

Would that answer be the same for, let's say, ranger?

 

If majority of players can only see an upside on having a profession on a team without no knowledge about the rest of it, something needs to change.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

Can we stop catching that such a class is op every time? Yes, mirage is quite strong with a good player, but we can still overcome and learn to create better builds to win against this class.

 

I must admit that the most difficult classes to face is spellbreaker and mirage full of evades, stealth and clones.

[bravan.3876]

> @"CreedOfGod.9764" said:

> Joining the party late, figured this is the best place for an opinion though.

>

> I'm biased because i'm a thief main, but I do not think that there should be another class with *more* mobility AND *more* damage than thief. Thief has been hit several times in the patches, from what im assuming is because of crazy mobility combined with burst, we have been toned down. Mirage has a plethora of evades, invulns/reflects teleports/ leaps/ invisibility/stuns/range/melee everything. Thief does have some of these tools, but no where near the level of mirage, not even daredevil is this efficient. I all for mirage being a master of misdirection, but mirage, for lack of a better statement, is just a straight up better thief.

>

> Mirage being able to burst is fine.

> Mirage being able to juke and misdirect opponents is fine

> Mirage having more mobility than base mesmer/chrono is fine

>

> Mirage being able to out run a thief that is using every available resource is not fine

> Mirage having more single target teleports, shadowsteps, stealth and more burst than thief, is not fine.

> Mirage being able to out burst a thief in full glass and have access to invuln + constant evade is not fine

> (mind wrack doing as much as a backstab, without any of the required preparation)

> Mirage summoning 60 clones at once is scary and I don't understand it

> Jaunt should have a longer cooldown (3-5 seconds)

> Sword ambush should be a smaller leap

> Illusionary ambush should be 900 range not 1200

> Mirage gets superspeed on dodge, when thief ("the most mobile class") only has superspeed when stealing from a ranger?

>

>

>

> /rant

>

>

>

 

Thief counters power mirage no matter what build the thief is playing.

Mirage is not faster than a dp daredevil.

Mirage has not a single teleport directly to the target, they are all groundbased, need LoS and a Mirage has only 2 teleport skills (blink, jaunt uhm ok i forgot illusionary ambush)

Mind wrack is not a Mirage feature and makes the same dmg since release of the game, you rly ask for core mesmer mechanic nerf? Lmao. Even with traiting for a oneshot with mental anguish (nerfed already recently) and superiority complex trait (could need a little bit of nerf still) Mind wrack makes not as much dmg as a backstab without a clone. Mind wrack with clone is a totallly different skill with different mechanic and can't be compared that way.

The clone limit still is 3 (can ppl without any clue of mesmer class stop crying pls and get informed before?)

The sword leap with 600 range is fine, they could remove the clone it generates

The superspeed on dodge is very short and only compensate the missing mobility from the mirage dodge, thief can stack perma swiftness on dodge with the both most common builds. Wtf you are complaining about?

 

A thief complaining about mesmer is a good joke.

 

What i think need to happen to make the few builds of mesmer which are op less broken:

 

- Revert the new phantasm rule except the one change that phantasms turn into clones after their first attack (means phantasms can be shattered as phantasms and they count into the max 3 illusion up rule together with clones again but they still become clones after first attack when they live long enough and don't get shattered). The phantasm change was made for PvE mostly and is just broken in PvP/ WvW, even a phantasm limit of 3 will not solve any of the problems the phantasmspam builds cause. Compensate the mesmer in PvE only for not having perma up phantasm anymore in another way that is splitable from PvP/ WvW (like more dmg on skills or lower cds).

- means also revert the dmg- and effect-buffs a lot of phantasms got with the patch in PvP and WvW. A shattermesmer never let phantasms live longer than for one attack before shatter anyway, no need to buff them just because they turn into clones after one attack now (some utility phantasm giving perma bonus as long as they live like dmg reduction ofc need a reword because they don't make sense when they don't stay alive but don't do it by give them 10k dmg hits). Turn staff phantasm back to only one warlock which make the same dmg than before the patch. Staff has already a very high clone production without the mesmer need to trait for it.

 

- Chaosline and Inspirationline are the only lines making mesmer ez and forgiving to play and that in a more or less passive way. Both lines should either get more nerfs than they got already or should get reworked into more active defense lines. Also a mesmer using one (or even both) of these traitlines should make remarkable less dmg (on shatters and phantasms). The more facetank ability (or even active defense) a build has the less dmg it should put out. Atm a choasline phantasm spam mesmer can still make insane dmg by being very hard to kill even when only played on average lvl. Dunno how to give less dmg to builds using defensive traitlines after the remove of statbonuses before hot release. Maybe implement somthing like 15-20 % less dmg on all skills per defensive line as addition to excisting minor traits.

 

- the stunbreak on dodge should get removed completely, the recent nerf is just a bad solution, ofc better than nothing but do not rly solve the problem.

 

 

Btw for the one trying to quote helseth from today stream: he clearly said all he complains about of mirage was based only on the one build he was playing and he played the old condi mirage meta. He said even for the phantasm powerbuild it is a different thing. And he would be the first to tell you that a pure glass shatter mirage (means not build on phantasm spam and not using chaos or inspiration) is more or less trash (stunbreak on dodge the only issue here but even trash with that). Discern between builds and don't just cry unreflected about everything and pls get informed about the class before start crying for nerfs that literally means just delete mesmer/ mirage from the game.

[Elxdark.9702]

lmao 22 pages, mesmer is fine guys 4Head

[Turk.5460]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"CreedOfGod.9764" said:

> > Joining the party late, figured this is the best place for an opinion though.

> >

> > I'm biased because i'm a thief main, but I do not think that there should be another class with *more* mobility AND *more* damage than thief. Thief has been hit several times in the patches, from what im assuming is because of crazy mobility combined with burst, we have been toned down. Mirage has a plethora of evades, invulns/reflects teleports/ leaps/ invisibility/stuns/range/melee everything. Thief does have some of these tools, but no where near the level of mirage, not even daredevil is this efficient. I all for mirage being a master of misdirection, but mirage, for lack of a better statement, is just a straight up better thief.

> >

> > Mirage being able to burst is fine.

> > Mirage being able to juke and misdirect opponents is fine

> > Mirage having more mobility than base mesmer/chrono is fine

> >

> > Mirage being able to out run a thief that is using every available resource is not fine

> > Mirage having more single target teleports, shadowsteps, stealth and more burst than thief, is not fine.

> > Mirage being able to out burst a thief in full glass and have access to invuln + constant evade is not fine

> > (mind wrack doing as much as a backstab, without any of the required preparation)

> > Mirage summoning 60 clones at once is scary and I don't understand it

> > Jaunt should have a longer cooldown (3-5 seconds)

> > Sword ambush should be a smaller leap

> > Illusionary ambush should be 900 range not 1200

> > Mirage gets superspeed on dodge, when thief ("the most mobile class") only has superspeed when stealing from a ranger?

> >

> >

> >

> > /rant

> >

> >

> >

>

> Thief counters power mirage no matter what build the thief is playing.

 

lol wut. I stopped reading at this, because it is no longer October 22nd, 2015.

[Odik.4587]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

Calling chaos/inspiration passive trait lines?

Mmmmm ? You know to get something outta there you have to use something ? Thats active defense that mesmer gets from it.

This 2 traitlines never been an issue but on top of 'reverting phantasm rework' demand to nerf traitlines that never been a problem (inspiration was nerfed,chaos getting first nerfs in years ... xD )

> Maybe implement somthing like 15-20 % less dmg on all skills per defensive line as addition to excisting minor traits.

You wot ? xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Why people want to nerf superior complex if thats not being used even... Its been amazing with old 5s cd CS and mental anguish,all nerfed, why touch this trait ... ?

Where any kind of compenastion of making all phantasms/clones thin as paper as they removed all HP bonuses?Or why they supposed to die if their attack being interrupted ? They didnt add HP to them... Clone production from phantasms feels needed even because of this AoE spam in this game with PoF rised up by a lot, you cant shatter if everything melt under 0.1 second

Warlock phantasm been goddamn trash because anet in 5 years couldnt change its projectile in something that actually HIT target. Also after they revert it and give proper projectile, this would still crit for 10k as it was ... if that landed ...you would start to cry again about it.

Rest tldr

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> lmao 22 pages, mesmer is fine guys 4Head

 

Sssshhhh. ?

[Kako.1930]

My biggest problem with mesmers ATM is the screen clutter. They went from having 3 illusions up at a time to potentially 9+. It's just a lot. Especially if there are more than just one on the same team.

 

I don't think their damage should be nerfed or anything, but a way to reduce the amount of screen space that the clones take up would be nice. Maybe make phantasms the size of minis? Or make it so only 3 phantasms and 3 clones can be out at a time? Idk.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"CreedOfGod.9764" said:

> > > Joining the party late, figured this is the best place for an opinion though.

> > >

> > > I'm biased because i'm a thief main, but I do not think that there should be another class with *more* mobility AND *more* damage than thief. Thief has been hit several times in the patches, from what im assuming is because of crazy mobility combined with burst, we have been toned down. Mirage has a plethora of evades, invulns/reflects teleports/ leaps/ invisibility/stuns/range/melee everything. Thief does have some of these tools, but no where near the level of mirage, not even daredevil is this efficient. I all for mirage being a master of misdirection, but mirage, for lack of a better statement, is just a straight up better thief.

> > >

> > > Mirage being able to burst is fine.

> > > Mirage being able to juke and misdirect opponents is fine

> > > Mirage having more mobility than base mesmer/chrono is fine

> > >

> > > Mirage being able to out run a thief that is using every available resource is not fine

> > > Mirage having more single target teleports, shadowsteps, stealth and more burst than thief, is not fine.

> > > Mirage being able to out burst a thief in full glass and have access to invuln + constant evade is not fine

> > > (mind wrack doing as much as a backstab, without any of the required preparation)

> > > Mirage summoning 60 clones at once is scary and I don't understand it

> > > Jaunt should have a longer cooldown (3-5 seconds)

> > > Sword ambush should be a smaller leap

> > > Illusionary ambush should be 900 range not 1200

> > > Mirage gets superspeed on dodge, when thief ("the most mobile class") only has superspeed when stealing from a ranger?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > /rant

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Thief counters power mirage no matter what build the thief is playing.

>

> lol wut. I stopped reading at this, because it is no longer October 22nd, 2015.

 

I'm in 2018 clearly. Maybe you NA? Than we have the problem. There somehow ppl believe thief now is a victim even from power mesmers...

 

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> Calling chaos/inspiration passive trait lines?

> Mmmmm ? You know to get something outta there you have to use something ? Thats active defense that mesmer gets from it.

> This 2 traitlines never been an issue but on top of 'reverting phantasm rework' demand to nerf traitlines that never been a problem (inspiration was nerfed,chaos getting first nerfs in years ... xD )

> > Maybe implement somthing like 15-20 % less dmg on all skills per defensive line as addition to excisting minor traits.

> You wot ? xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

> Why people want to nerf superior complex if thats not being used even... Its been amazing with old 5s cd CS and mental anguish,all nerfed, why touch this trait ... ?

> Where any kind of compenastion of making all phantasms/clones thin as paper as they removed all HP bonuses?Or why they supposed to die if their attack being interrupted ? They didnt add HP to them... Clone production from phantasms feels needed even because of this AoE spam in this game with PoF rised up by a lot, you cant shatter if everything melt under 0.1 second

> Warlock phantasm been kitten trash because anet in 5 years couldnt change its projectile in something that actually HIT target. Also after they revert it and give proper projectile, this would still crit for 10k as it was ... if that landed ...you would start to cry again about it.

> Rest tldr

 

Defender Proc is passive even when you need to dodge or block something, the heal/condiremove or boonspam fest from chaos and inspi you get as a sideline from using shatters, you don't even need to think about it. The only case you actively use a shatter only to get a specific boon is when you need stability for example for a stomp, aside from that no chaosmesmer even think about what shatter gives what boon, you use your shatter as shatterskills and just passively generate boons during that. PU generates boons passively after using a stealth skill. The only not passive trait in chaos is the interrupt trait. Minor traits generate boons passive on Hp threshold. No one would rly argue about that Inspiration and Choas make playing mesmer easier, more forgiving and more newbie friendly. They simply allow to make more mistakes. And that a mesmer with this higher and easy applied sustain (lets call it semi-passive if you feel better than) still can make insane dmg is not balanced at all.

 

The warlock can stay with beaming instead having a single projectile, i just say make it only one warlock instead of 2, the clone generation from mesmers without the need to trait for it (without using Deceptive Evation or Self Deception) is just way too high atm. I don't know why you seems to have a lot of problems with your clones and phantasms staying alive long enough. I never have this problem without even being that good on mesmer and i never see a problem like this when watching other mesmer like Misha, Frostball or Helseth on Twitch. Maybe you do something wrong in terms of positioning or the timing you use your skills.

 

Before the rework of traits prehot you had specific statboni on traitlines, means when you used a defensive traitline you lost a good amount of power- or precision-/ condistats and got like vitality or toughness stats instead. After this was deleted a defensive traited build still could make remarkable more dmg than pre hot. That is not only for mesmer, it's for all classes. This is also the reason bruiser builds become a thing. All these builds having high sustain and still do almost the same, in some cases even the same or more dmg than a high risk build. Anet ever faild in balancing the sustain-dmg relation, dooming high risk builds to be only effective vs noobs or other high risk builds who are easy to oneshot.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> Lest this merging confuse you: There were about 8 threads about the state of the mesmer. We're merged those threads (and may add a few more) because the Devs **want** to read your feedback, but have asked to get it in one place to let them do that efficiently.

 

Honestly, this is extremely hard to believe considering how long they ignored our begging them to fix EM, and then doing something that no one asked for that doesnt' even fix the issue with teh trait.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > Lest this merging confuse you: There were about 8 threads about the state of the mesmer. We're merged those threads (and may add a few more) because the Devs **want** to read your feedback, but have asked to get it in one place to let them do that efficiently.

>

> There was almost as much mesmer spam on the PvP forums as a Chronophantasma Imagined Burden Contiuum Split Illusionary Berserker+Signet of the Ether, Illusionary Berseker / Continuum Split Ends Illusionary Berserker+Signet of the Ether, Illusionary Berseker combo.

 

I know, right? :)

 

But seriously, when a dev specifically asks for a merge, that means they're looking into reading your comments. The better we can keep things consolidated (and constructive!) the more valuable the thread will be.