Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[aDemoNnDisguisE.8576]

Mes needs Nerfs.

There has never been a class that needed to be nerfed more than Mes in the history of the game.

 

Take away all their blocks, invuln and evades.

Nuke this stupid class from orbit!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"aDemoNnDisguisE.8576" said:

> Mes needs Nerfs.

> There has never been a class that needed to be nerfed more than Mes in the history of the game.

>

> Take away all their blocks, invuln and evades.

> Nuke this stupid class from orbit!

 

And give them the hp and damage of a clone too!

[Odik.4587]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > It's not a repeated lie, mesmer has been capable of maintaining permanent evade uptime for quite a long time. It is obviously not possible for a class to have more evade uptime than PERMANENT evade. The mistake they are making is that most mesmers don't use PERMANENT evade in pvp (since nobody NEEDS permanent evade and some of those evades are better spent on utility or damage), and that the sigils required for mesmer to have permanent evade uptime have been nerfed in pvp.

> > >

> > > Yeah you can maintain permaevade or close to it, you only need to have adv runes, sigils of energy, false oasis, illusionary ambush, crystal sands, sand through glass and do nothing but spamming evades, mirrors and shatters, similar to Sanic DD back then (which I didn't saw anyone complaining about, QQ is kind of thieves' unique mechanic)

> > > So be my guess and take mirrors out of crystal sands and sand through glass, no one uses them either way.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > **So Anet must do something about CHRONOPHANTASMA before nerfing Mesmer anywhere. Nerfing Mesmer everywhere but not Chronophantasma to keep it for PVE its not how you deal with a problem.**

> > >

> > > I would add something to help with these evades spams everyone talks about and doesn't exist, make mirage cloak a boon so it can be corrupt or stripped.

> > > (My plan is for mirage cloak duration to be increased by concentration so everyone cries even more :) )

> >

> > You are wrong about perma evades .

> > You need desert distortion,signet of illusions, mimic ,to mimic signet ofc (for 3 times f4 and 9 mirrors! 12 seconds of invul,9 seconds of evades from this omagaaaaaaad),mirage heal , ambush, crystal sands, mirage breakstun ,so you can be untouchable for a very long time! (sigil of energy ,adventurer ofc too).

> > What i have done? It was a secret build for easly monthly win ... :(

> >

> > Why you mention core problem of memser balance and talk about ideas that only Shirliass can come up with :< . Such disrespect

> >

>

> I was actually referring to the normal condi mesmer axe PVE build that was prevalent before the phantasm rework, and I inferred as much in my initial post, but whatever I'll let this one go.

>

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > And we're walking in circles again...Exclude portal (core mes) thieves have more mobility than mes.

> > >

> > > What I like the most aboud this thread is the ones crying harder for nerfs are thieves and I've seen this movie before.

> > > PU gots buffed back in the day - thieves reaction "omg mes have too much stealth! unfair! no one should have as much stealth as thieves!"

> > > Mirage has evades - thieves reaction "too many evades! unfair! no one should have as many evades as thieves!"

> > > Mirage has mobility - thieves reaction "too much mobility! unfair! no one should have as much mobility as thieves!"

> > >

> > > Like I said above, relax thieves, you still have your unique mechanic - QQ!

> > >

> >

> > It seems more like a thief design issue since honestly aside from mobility and stealth there's literally nothing interesting about them.

>

> That's exactly correct. And stealth really is kind of pointless in this game in the first place, it doesn't actually DO anything. If people aren't attacking you in conquest because you're stealthed, they're going to be capping a node or attacking a teammate. It's really just a detriment to your team most of the time when being able to actually win the fight 1v1 would've been preferable.

>

> So thief has dodges and mobility basically, and not a whole lot else. The burst people complain about on thief is really not justified whining - most other classes do a way better job of oneshotting than thief does. So of course, when mesmer gets as much mobility and evades as thief, thief is going to be pushed out of the meta. It's just the natural conclusion of those changes. This is why I think mobility is the target for mesmer and why I think thief needs to do... something else, so that having 2 is not an instaloss.

>

> I'd like to see mesmer lose 1 mobility skill to start with (sword ambush in particular) and see if it needs more changes from there, and for steal to be reworked into something that actually gives thief some identity - as it is steal amounts to a teleport with an interrupt most of the time. That guy complaining about how broken the mesmer steal is really needs to put some thought into how long those buffs last.

 

You are hellish delusional. About everything : burst,mobility,evades but tf you claim you are not ?:D

Best part is consume plasma not being ridiculously broken and its fine ...LUL

Let me expose you :

>However, if you're asking me what should be done specifically TO MESMER to balance the game - I do think less mobility is the way to go.

Thats ... saying that means you completely out of touch with what memser need to be nerfed/adjusted :)

Just another thief complaining about class that he hardcounter/farming(at least supposed to be).

If you cant... accept my condolences...

Dis thieves complaining about mesmer thats beyond me tbh xD

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > It's not a repeated lie, mesmer has been capable of maintaining permanent evade uptime for quite a long time. It is obviously not possible for a class to have more evade uptime than PERMANENT evade. The mistake they are making is that most mesmers don't use PERMANENT evade in pvp (since nobody NEEDS permanent evade and some of those evades are better spent on utility or damage), and that the sigils required for mesmer to have permanent evade uptime have been nerfed in pvp.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah you can maintain permaevade or close to it, you only need to have adv runes, sigils of energy, false oasis, illusionary ambush, crystal sands, sand through glass and do nothing but spamming evades, mirrors and shatters, similar to Sanic DD back then (which I didn't saw anyone complaining about, QQ is kind of thieves' unique mechanic)

> > > > So be my guess and take mirrors out of crystal sands and sand through glass, no one uses them either way.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > **So Anet must do something about CHRONOPHANTASMA before nerfing Mesmer anywhere. Nerfing Mesmer everywhere but not Chronophantasma to keep it for PVE its not how you deal with a problem.**

> > > >

> > > > I would add something to help with these evades spams everyone talks about and doesn't exist, make mirage cloak a boon so it can be corrupt or stripped.

> > > > (My plan is for mirage cloak duration to be increased by concentration so everyone cries even more :) )

> > >

> > > You are wrong about perma evades .

> > > You need desert distortion,signet of illusions, mimic ,to mimic signet ofc (for 3 times f4 and 9 mirrors! 12 seconds of invul,9 seconds of evades from this omagaaaaaaad),mirage heal , ambush, crystal sands, mirage breakstun ,so you can be untouchable for a very long time! (sigil of energy ,adventurer ofc too).

> > > What i have done? It was a secret build for easly monthly win ... :(

> > >

> > > Why you mention core problem of memser balance and talk about ideas that only Shirliass can come up with :< . Such disrespect

> > >

> >

> > I was actually referring to the normal condi mesmer axe PVE build that was prevalent before the phantasm rework, and I inferred as much in my initial post, but whatever I'll let this one go.

> >

> > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > And we're walking in circles again...Exclude portal (core mes) thieves have more mobility than mes.

> > > >

> > > > What I like the most aboud this thread is the ones crying harder for nerfs are thieves and I've seen this movie before.

> > > > PU gots buffed back in the day - thieves reaction "omg mes have too much stealth! unfair! no one should have as much stealth as thieves!"

> > > > Mirage has evades - thieves reaction "too many evades! unfair! no one should have as many evades as thieves!"

> > > > Mirage has mobility - thieves reaction "too much mobility! unfair! no one should have as much mobility as thieves!"

> > > >

> > > > Like I said above, relax thieves, you still have your unique mechanic - QQ!

> > > >

> > >

> > > It seems more like a thief design issue since honestly aside from mobility and stealth there's literally nothing interesting about them.

> >

> > That's exactly correct. And stealth really is kind of pointless in this game in the first place, it doesn't actually DO anything. If people aren't attacking you in conquest because you're stealthed, they're going to be capping a node or attacking a teammate. It's really just a detriment to your team most of the time when being able to actually win the fight 1v1 would've been preferable.

> >

> > So thief has dodges and mobility basically, and not a whole lot else. The burst people complain about on thief is really not justified whining - most other classes do a way better job of oneshotting than thief does. So of course, when mesmer gets as much mobility and evades as thief, thief is going to be pushed out of the meta. It's just the natural conclusion of those changes. This is why I think mobility is the target for mesmer and why I think thief needs to do... something else, so that having 2 is not an instaloss.

> >

> > I'd like to see mesmer lose 1 mobility skill to start with (sword ambush in particular) and see if it needs more changes from there, and for steal to be reworked into something that actually gives thief some identity - as it is steal amounts to a teleport with an interrupt most of the time. That guy complaining about how broken the mesmer steal is really needs to put some thought into how long those buffs last.

>

> You are hellish delusional. About everything : burst,mobility,evades but tf you claim you are not ?:D

> Best part is consume plasma not being ridiculously broken and its fine ...LUL

> Let me expose you :

> >However, if you're asking me what should be done specifically TO MESMER to balance the game - I do think less mobility is the way to go.

> Thats ... saying that means you completely out of touch with what memser need to be nerfed/adjusted :)

> Just another thief complaining about class that he hardcounter/farming(at least supposed to be).

> If you cant... accept my condolences...

> Dis thieves complaining about mesmer thats beyond me tbh xD

 

"Expose" is a word you use to describe someone you're giving new information about, not someone whose quotes you're repeating that the thread has already read and agreed upon as correct.

 

And really, nobody is going to take the opinion of a mesmer about other classes having anything "broken" as a serious opinion. Sorry bud.

 

Here's some facts for you in case you actually believe you're somehow correct about anything you're saying:

On the entire GW2 forums I was able to find 4 threads with over 1k comments. Out of those other 3 threads, one was created in JUNE 2017, one in MAY 2017, and one in NOVEMBER 2017.

 

This, the merged mesmer is op thread, is about to surpass the size of the May 24th thread (over 1k comments) and has existed for:

**FIVE

DAYS**

 

Just some facts for you buddy. I guess I should be thanking or congratulating you, since the size of this thread was made possible in large part by you attempting to defend the current state of mesmer. Without you none of this would have been possible. This might be the largest thread that has ever existed in the GW2 PVP forums? You've created a tiny piece of history.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

https://tinyurl.com/ycsbtuab

[Odik.4587]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

>_meaningless arguments_

 

Your entire argument why you beleive everything you complaint about is 'correct' because 'largest thread that ever existed' ?_facepalm_

 

>"Expose" is a word you use to describe someone you're giving new information about, not someone whose quotes you're repeating that the thread has already read and agreed upon as correct.

Who said you are correct? Large size of the thread again ?

If not count that people alrdy playing in AT's 4 chronomancers with paladin amulets without a portal and you you are like MOBILITY IS THE PROBLEM .

I quotted it because its clearly show you are biased and have no clue about obvious problem(small hint its caused by rework of something )

 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> >_meaningless arguments_

>

> Your entire argument why you beleive everything you complaint about is 'correct' because 'largest thread that ever existed' ?_facepalm_

>

> >"Expose" is a word you use to describe someone you're giving new information about, not someone whose quotes you're repeating that the thread has already read and agreed upon as correct.

> Who said you are correct? Large size of the thread again ?

> If not count that people alrdy playing in AT's 4 chronomancers with paladin amulets without a portal and you you are like MOBILITY IS THE PROBLEM .

> I quotted it because its clearly show you are biased and have no clue about obvious problem(small hint its caused by rework of something )

>

 

If you want to revert the phantasm changes, that's fine with me, but your class had identity issues with phantasms and the change had nothing to do with balance. Reverting the changes would just make mesmer less sensible as a class and still completely OP, since mesmer was meta before the rework and hasn't received as many nerfs as other classes in the latest patch. So as much as I'd like to find something to agree with you on, this change would probably be the worst thing for mesmer.

 

You can still go back to limiting the number of clones which would be fine, but reverting the changes is probably not best.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > >_meaningless arguments_

> >

> > Your entire argument why you beleive everything you complaint about is 'correct' because 'largest thread that ever existed' ?_facepalm_

> >

> > >"Expose" is a word you use to describe someone you're giving new information about, not someone whose quotes you're repeating that the thread has already read and agreed upon as correct.

> > Who said you are correct? Large size of the thread again ?

> > If not count that people alrdy playing in AT's 4 chronomancers with paladin amulets without a portal and you you are like MOBILITY IS THE PROBLEM .

> > I quotted it because its clearly show you are biased and have no clue about obvious problem(small hint its caused by rework of something )

> >

>

> If you want to revert the phantasm changes, that's fine with me, but your class had identity issues with phantasms and the change had nothing to do with balance. Reverting the changes would just make mesmer less sensible as a class and still completely OP, since mesmer was meta before the rework and hasn't received as many nerfs as other classes in the latest patch. So as much as I'd like to find something to agree with you on, this change would probably be the worst thing for mesmer.

>

> You can still go back to limiting the number of clones which would be fine, but reverting the changes is probably not best.

 

.... You dont even read what i wrote before lol... I advice you to RE-read it

I want to get rid of chronophantasma and remove double phantasms to reduce clutter and wouldnt need to nerf new phantasmal traits .

Mesmer had 'least' amount of nerfs because patch was aiming to reduce defensive autoprocs that mesmer NEVER had XD (but they forgot about offensive.mesmer dont have them too lol) . Before that they destroyed confusion on mesmer and gave it very short duration but whatever.

As for guy who complaint about mesmer have too many 'meta' builds ... 2 of them phantasm based and 1 not even meta(how its can be true if that build was recently nerfed a lot ?)

[zoopop.5630]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" anything gonna get done with this class or are we gonna ignore everything till end of the season? ANY information about this would help most of us understand where the dev's are at with this issue. 16k random crit from an illusion and over 12 clones appearing on screen is beyond cancer / broken. This should of been a hotfix by now yet it's still being ignored/not talk about at all so again i'm asking you for some sort of information/feedback about this.

[Odik.4587]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

I think its much more complicated for them to decide how to fix/rework chronophantasma.

Your 16k random crits coming from phantasm that need rework . (even tho its aoe radius is small but whatever :D)

 

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> I think its much more complicated for them to decide how to fix/rework chronophantasma.

> Your 16k random crits coming from phantasm that need rework . (even tho its aoe radius is small but whatever :D)

>

 

doesn't defeat the purpose that the dps output is broken and shouldn't be hitting for so high. (regardless of how small the radius is :D), It shouldn't be so Complicated to tone down dmg overall on a class/ability at all.

[Ghos.1326]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > I think its much more complicated for them to decide how to fix/rework chronophantasma.

> > Your 16k random crits coming from phantasm that need rework . (even tho its aoe radius is small but whatever :D)

> >

>

> doesn't defeat the purpose that the dps output is broken and shouldn't be hitting for so high. (regardless of how small the radius is :D), It shouldn't be so Complicated to tone down dmg overall on a class/ability at all.

 

I agree. It's ok for a bursting build to output high amounts of damage and chunk out up to 30-35% hp for a rotation, but then that rotation needs to be on a decent cooldown, enough for other builds to recoop properly. A bursting build should not be a 1hko build, it should be a build designed to take out low targets or provide pressure to targets with builds that have no defense, or who focus only on healing and condition clear. a bunker build should never be pressured by a bursting build, because of their role in being a physical damage tank, but should be pressured by steady condition damage. Nor should a bunker build have super high damage. As well, a bursting build should function much like a glass cannon, and should pick their fights wiseless, chunking out decent patches of hp in one go, but then needing to wait a certain time to do it again, as not to cause too much damage in too little time (example: each mind wrack rotation dealing 35% damage, traited to do 2x mind wracks, 70% damage if successful rotation is done, but then needing to get out before being pooped on if the opponent is not dead, and giving a 10-15 second window of opportunity for the opponent to either run away if still alive, or counter pressure if possible.)

 

I think we can all agree that being able to body a man who is at 100% health, with protection, other damage mitigation, and defensive amulets and traits is just not healthy for the game.

[Odik.4587]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > I think its much more complicated for them to decide how to fix/rework chronophantasma.

> > Your 16k random crits coming from phantasm that need rework . (even tho its aoe radius is small but whatever :D)

> >

>

> doesn't defeat the purpose that the dps output is broken and shouldn't be hitting for so high. (regardless of how small the radius is :D), It shouldn't be so Complicated to tone down dmg overall on a class/ability at all.

I believe its hard because you touching it in PvE , so many happy mesmers playing power DPS there

We should look at deadeye oneshot as well may be(18k+ crit on demolisher amulet with 16k hp.30+ on marauder?:D) ?At least Defender is visible all the time xD

I dont agree its need damage nerf, that thing supposed to defend you not, not oneshot unaware people xD

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/464401#Comment_464401 i hope you agree :>

 

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> I think we can all agree that being able to body a man who is at 100% health, with protection, other damage mitigation, and defensive amulets and traits is just not healthy for the game.

Its not possible for anyone in this game to do so with any build (may be full yolo dagger dagger thief can if he steal protection). When Firebrand was even more bunkerish S/D core thief destroyed poor firebrands because three three three three :) . I dont know they fare now , probably he same , because FB got nerfs too .

Also what 15seconds you talking about ? Its nonsense :D

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> Its not possible for anyone in this game to do so with any build (may be full yolo dagger dagger thief can if he steal protection). When Firebrand was even more bunkerish S/D core thief destroyed poor firebrands because three three three three :) . I dont know they fare now , probably he same , because FB got nerfs too .

It is possible. Mesmers do it a lot. 2x mind wrack can body a man within 10 seconds.

> Also what 15seconds you talking about ? Its nonsense :D

The 15 seconds I am referring to, is referring to the cooldown that **SHOULD** be present in any burst build. And if the build can output burst in faster time frames (example being fresh air ele, refresh air attunement on crit and when attuning to air, deal lightning strike damage to player) then tone down the damage a lot. It just takes a little reading.

 

 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > >_meaningless arguments_

> > >

> > > Your entire argument why you beleive everything you complaint about is 'correct' because 'largest thread that ever existed' ?_facepalm_

> > >

> > > >"Expose" is a word you use to describe someone you're giving new information about, not someone whose quotes you're repeating that the thread has already read and agreed upon as correct.

> > > Who said you are correct? Large size of the thread again ?

> > > If not count that people alrdy playing in AT's 4 chronomancers with paladin amulets without a portal and you you are like MOBILITY IS THE PROBLEM .

> > > I quotted it because its clearly show you are biased and have no clue about obvious problem(small hint its caused by rework of something )

> > >

> >

> > If you want to revert the phantasm changes, that's fine with me, but your class had identity issues with phantasms and the change had nothing to do with balance. Reverting the changes would just make mesmer less sensible as a class and still completely OP, since mesmer was meta before the rework and hasn't received as many nerfs as other classes in the latest patch. So as much as I'd like to find something to agree with you on, this change would probably be the worst thing for mesmer.

> >

> > You can still go back to limiting the number of clones which would be fine, but reverting the changes is probably not best.

>

> .... You dont even read what i wrote before lol... I advice you to RE-read it

> I want to get rid of chronophantasma and remove double phantasms to reduce clutter and wouldnt need to nerf new phantasmal traits .

> Mesmer had 'least' amount of nerfs because patch was aiming to reduce defensive autoprocs that mesmer NEVER had XD (but they forgot about offensive.mesmer dont have them too lol) . Before that they destroyed confusion on mesmer and gave it very short duration but whatever.

> As for guy who complaint about mesmer have too many 'meta' builds ... 2 of them phantasm based and 1 not even meta(how its can be true if that build was recently nerfed a lot ?)

 

Correct, but when you nerf classes across the board and then don't nerf one class because it doesn't have a lot of passive, the outcome should be obvious and predictable and something else should have happened to mesmer.

 

I agree with your idea of essentially reducing clutter but I don't like how thief and mesmer are basically filling the same role right now and I think that needs to be addressed also.

 

You have already mentioned that you don't like how ATs are won by 4 mesmer teams so you seem to agree that mesmer needs nerfs and idk why you're arguing with everyone.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > >_meaningless arguments_

> > > >

> > > > Your entire argument why you beleive everything you complaint about is 'correct' because 'largest thread that ever existed' ?_facepalm_

> > > >

> > > > >"Expose" is a word you use to describe someone you're giving new information about, not someone whose quotes you're repeating that the thread has already read and agreed upon as correct.

> > > > Who said you are correct? Large size of the thread again ?

> > > > If not count that people alrdy playing in AT's 4 chronomancers with paladin amulets without a portal and you you are like MOBILITY IS THE PROBLEM .

> > > > I quotted it because its clearly show you are biased and have no clue about obvious problem(small hint its caused by rework of something )

> > > >

> > >

> > > If you want to revert the phantasm changes, that's fine with me, but your class had identity issues with phantasms and the change had nothing to do with balance. Reverting the changes would just make mesmer less sensible as a class and still completely OP, since mesmer was meta before the rework and hasn't received as many nerfs as other classes in the latest patch. So as much as I'd like to find something to agree with you on, this change would probably be the worst thing for mesmer.

> > >

> > > You can still go back to limiting the number of clones which would be fine, but reverting the changes is probably not best.

> >

> > .... You dont even read what i wrote before lol... I advice you to RE-read it

> > I want to get rid of chronophantasma and remove double phantasms to reduce clutter and wouldnt need to nerf new phantasmal traits .

> > Mesmer had 'least' amount of nerfs because patch was aiming to reduce defensive autoprocs that mesmer NEVER had XD (but they forgot about offensive.mesmer dont have them too lol) . Before that they destroyed confusion on mesmer and gave it very short duration but whatever.

> > As for guy who complaint about mesmer have too many 'meta' builds ... 2 of them phantasm based and 1 not even meta(how its can be true if that build was recently nerfed a lot ?)

>

> Correct, but when you nerf classes across the board and then don't nerf one class because it doesn't have a lot of passive, the outcome should be obvious and predictable and something else should have happened to mesmer.

>

> I agree with your idea of essentially reducing clutter but I don't like how thief and mesmer are basically filling the same role right now and I think that needs to be addressed also.

>

> You have already mentioned that you don't like how ATs are won by 4 mesmer teams so you seem to agree that mesmer needs nerfs and idk why you're arguing with everyone.

 

No , i meant overall in game were 4 mesmers. 2 on each side.

Nerfs were focused on Mirage/core mostly . I said that Chrono wasnt affected (because CP/signet/split combos). Its not simple for them to remove CP and replace with something else quick.

Arguing because people want to gut the class and complain about something wasnt broken to begin with,they wont stop to complain anway . After Anet decide what to do with CP then would be easier to adjust things properly .

Thief have better roamer abilities and its build that used to 'coseplay thief' was nerfed surprisingly... Thief still have better mobility and plus 1 ,can stick to a target because target teleprots(i dont count portals). And thief always destroyed mesmer and still keep this tradition (tyvm plasma, its used to be 1,then 2 and now 4 , which was buffed ...)

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

I didnt add shatterstorm to the game kek ... (Anyone use this trait? )

GS nerfed, CS(exact 15 seconds what you asking for),mental anguish nerfed. Not sure if you still have issues with this build , especially on bunkers,its impossible to die to it on bunker with said protections and stuff. (unless you are AFK)

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > I think its much more complicated for them to decide how to fix/rework chronophantasma.

> > > Your 16k random crits coming from phantasm that need rework . (even tho its aoe radius is small but whatever :D)

> > >

> >

> > doesn't defeat the purpose that the dps output is broken and shouldn't be hitting for so high. (regardless of how small the radius is :D), It shouldn't be so Complicated to tone down dmg overall on a class/ability at all.

> I believe its hard because you touching it in PvE , so many happy mesmers playing power DPS there

> We should look at deadeye oneshot as well may be(18k+ crit on demolisher amulet with 16k hp.30+ on marauder?:D) ?At least Defender is visible all the time xD

> I dont agree its need damage nerf, that thing supposed to defend you not, not oneshot unaware people xD

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/464401#Comment_464401 i hope you agree :>

>

 

a Deadeye "one-shot" isn't a one shot at all, It's a series of abilities needing to be met before he "hit" for so high. A Mesmer Ability such as Defender Can be easily summoned and noting needs to be met for the random "one-shot" to happen at all. The fact a class can do this and have it under a 30 second cool-down is beyond absurd. Also PvP and Pve Changes can be separate no reason why the changes to PvP needs to happen for Pve. We already get those changes from time to time and even though defender is visible it still doesn't change the fact it can possibly one shot you or anyone else on the team with no issues at all. At least with a deadeye we can counter it easily with reflect or barriers which is also easy to see coming once you get marked/hear the sound from the deadeye.

 

Comparing the deadeye to a mesmer was pretty foolish if everyone was able to get away with instantly bursting people down in 1 shot then they'll be crying for nerfs just how they are for mesmers(for multiple reasons as to why). In no game should any class be able to "melt" or "one-shot" a "tank" within a second(s) during a fight. It Kills the game play/defeats the purpose being a "tank".

[Ghos.1326]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > I think its much more complicated for them to decide how to fix/rework chronophantasma.

> > > > Your 16k random crits coming from phantasm that need rework . (even tho its aoe radius is small but whatever :D)

> > > >

> > >

> > > doesn't defeat the purpose that the dps output is broken and shouldn't be hitting for so high. (regardless of how small the radius is :D), It shouldn't be so Complicated to tone down dmg overall on a class/ability at all.

> > I believe its hard because you touching it in PvE , so many happy mesmers playing power DPS there

> > We should look at deadeye oneshot as well may be(18k+ crit on demolisher amulet with 16k hp.30+ on marauder?:D) ?At least Defender is visible all the time xD

> > I dont agree its need damage nerf, that thing supposed to defend you not, not oneshot unaware people xD

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/464401#Comment_464401 i hope you agree :>

> >

>

> a Deadeye "one-shot" isn't a one shot at all, It's a series of abilities needing to be met before he "hit" for so high. A Mesmer Ability such as Defender Can be easily summoned and noting needs to be met for the random "one-shot" to happen at all. The fact a class can do this and have it under a 30 second cool-down is beyond absurd. Also PvP and Pve Changes can be separate no reason why the changes to PvP needs to happen for Pve. We already get those changes from time to time and even though defender is visible it still doesn't change the fact it can possibly one shot you or anyone else on the team with no issues at all. At least with a deadeye we can counter it easily with reflect or barriers which is also easy to see coming once you get marked/hear the sound from the deadeye.

>

> Comparing the deadeye to a mesmer was pretty foolish if everyone was able to get away with instantly bursting people down in 1 shot then they'll be crying for nerfs just how they are for mesmers(for multiple reasons as to why). In no game should any class be able to "melt" or "one-shot" a "tank" within a second(s) during a fight. It Kills the game play/defeats the purpose being a "tank".

 

agreed.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > >_meaningless arguments_

> > > > >

> > > > > Your entire argument why you beleive everything you complaint about is 'correct' because 'largest thread that ever existed' ?_facepalm_

> > > > >

> > > > > >"Expose" is a word you use to describe someone you're giving new information about, not someone whose quotes you're repeating that the thread has already read and agreed upon as correct.

> > > > > Who said you are correct? Large size of the thread again ?

> > > > > If not count that people alrdy playing in AT's 4 chronomancers with paladin amulets without a portal and you you are like MOBILITY IS THE PROBLEM .

> > > > > I quotted it because its clearly show you are biased and have no clue about obvious problem(small hint its caused by rework of something )

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > If you want to revert the phantasm changes, that's fine with me, but your class had identity issues with phantasms and the change had nothing to do with balance. Reverting the changes would just make mesmer less sensible as a class and still completely OP, since mesmer was meta before the rework and hasn't received as many nerfs as other classes in the latest patch. So as much as I'd like to find something to agree with you on, this change would probably be the worst thing for mesmer.

> > > >

> > > > You can still go back to limiting the number of clones which would be fine, but reverting the changes is probably not best.

> > >

> > > .... You dont even read what i wrote before lol... I advice you to RE-read it

> > > I want to get rid of chronophantasma and remove double phantasms to reduce clutter and wouldnt need to nerf new phantasmal traits .

> > > Mesmer had 'least' amount of nerfs because patch was aiming to reduce defensive autoprocs that mesmer NEVER had XD (but they forgot about offensive.mesmer dont have them too lol) . Before that they destroyed confusion on mesmer and gave it very short duration but whatever.

> > > As for guy who complaint about mesmer have too many 'meta' builds ... 2 of them phantasm based and 1 not even meta(how its can be true if that build was recently nerfed a lot ?)

> >

> > Correct, but when you nerf classes across the board and then don't nerf one class because it doesn't have a lot of passive, the outcome should be obvious and predictable and something else should have happened to mesmer.

> >

> > I agree with your idea of essentially reducing clutter but I don't like how thief and mesmer are basically filling the same role right now and I think that needs to be addressed also.

> >

> > You have already mentioned that you don't like how ATs are won by 4 mesmer teams so you seem to agree that mesmer needs nerfs and idk why you're arguing with everyone.

>

> No , i meant overall in game were 4 mesmers. 2 on each side.

> Nerfs were focused on Mirage/core mostly . I said that Chrono wasnt affected (because CP/signet/split combos). Its not simple for them to remove CP and replace with something else quick.

> Arguing because people want to gut the class and complain about something wasnt broken to begin with,they wont stop to complain anway . After Anet decide what to do with CP then would be easier to adjust things properly .

> Thief have better roamer abilities and its build that used to 'coseplay thief' was nerfed surprisingly... Thief still have better mobility and plus 1 ,can stick to a target because target teleprots(i dont count portals). And thief always destroyed mesmer and still keep this tradition (tyvm plasma, its used to be 1,then 2 and now 4 , which was buffed ...)

 

It sounds like we agree on most of the stuff here and you just don't want to admit it. I don't recall anyone saying they want to gut the class (except that one guy who wants to "nuke the class from orbit"). Everyone wants mesmer to still be viable after the next balance sweep, but right now it's way out of line. If you agree with that then you should just say so and you'll get a lot less hassle in this forum.

[Odik.4587]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> a Deadeye "one-shot" isn't a one shot at all, It's a series of abilities needing to be met before he "hit" for so high. A Mesmer Ability such as Defender Can be easily summoned and noting needs to be met for the random "one-shot" to happen at all. The fact a class can do this and have it under a 30 second cool-down is beyond absurd. Also PvP and Pve Changes can be separate no reason why the changes to PvP needs to happen for Pve. We already get those changes from time to time and even though defender is visible it still doesn't change the fact it can possibly one shot you or anyone else on the team with no issues at all. At least with a deadeye we can counter it easily with reflect or barriers which is also easy to see coming once you get marked/hear the sound from the deadeye.

>

> Comparing the deadeye to a mesmer was pretty foolish if everyone was able to get away with instantly bursting people down in 1 shot then they'll be crying for nerfs just how they are for mesmers(for multiple reasons as to why). In no game should any class be able to "melt" or "one-shot" a "tank" within a second(s) during a fight. It Kills the game play/defeats the purpose being a "tank".

 

>> a Deadeye "one-shot" isn't a one shot at all, It's a series of abilities needing to be met before he "hit" for so high

What series of abilities ? For what reason GS combo shatter was nerfed if its 'series of abilities' ?

You need to use F1 and wait till your malice reach maximum stacks,kneel,press 4. Its a single hit that have highest damage when conditions are met.(That kill player with a single hit)

We can count you wrong here ? Defender need condition to be met as well.

>A Mesmer Ability such as Defender Can be easily summoned and noting needs to be met for the random "one-shot" to happen at all

You are wrong here ;) . Read description of a defender . Its need to be hit 10 times within its block duration and be very close it . You said its need NOTHING TO BE MET FOR THE RANDOM ONE SHOT.

> Comparing the deadeye to a mesmer was pretty foolish if everyone was able to get away with instantly bursting people down in 1 shot

Why its foolish ? Both abilities need conditions to be met to deal its maximum damage , both are not instant .

>The fact a class can do this and have it under a 30 second cool-down is beyond absurd.

Its cooldown is 50 seconds (can be gained through signet but still its cooldown is not less than 30) . Death Judgement have no cooldown.

I alrdy said : its need a rework with chronophantasma.

>At least with a deadeye we can counter it easily with reflect or barriers which is also easy to see coming once you get marked/hear the sound from the deadeye.

Not everyone have insta reflect on demand ? Barriers? For me its hard to see mark because how poorly made animation especially when things happen in chaotic teamfight or sounds of every character shouting stuff/sound effects.

>At least with a deadeye we can counter.

As counterplay to defender i can only suggest to stop attacking him and standing next ot him in same time? Its not invisible, your teammates can read ?

If you noticed I didnt ask for DE nerfs or defend current Defender.

Dont exaggerate that much pls .

[omgdracula.6345]

The mental gymnastics mesmer players are doing in this thread is hilarious. Scourge and Mesmer are both completely out of line. I don't blame the players though. I blame Anets lack of action for letting things go unchecked and their kind of "deal with it until season end" attitude.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

 

> If you noticed I didnt ask for DE nerfs or defend current Defender.

> Dont exaggerate that much pls

 

Because DE would need to be multiple power levels stronger to be on par with Mirage lol.

 

[FtoPScrub.5476]

Double post

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

>

> > If you noticed I didnt ask for DE nerfs or defend current Defender.

> > Dont exaggerate that much pls

>

> Because DE would need to be multiple power levels stronger to be on par with Mirage lol.

>

 

What mirage? its 50s cd phantasm doesnt belong to mirage, its genius that work in Anet decided that would be nice to create phantasm that praise Allah... instead of being 'DEFENDER'.My highest Death Judgement was 35k , some1 posted screen defender exploded for 16.600)

(Why I respond ? Im bored ,also making thread bigger , helping to acheive 30 pages)

Funniest thing , guy pretend nothing should oneshot ...

>In no game should any class be able to "melt" or "one-shot" a "tank" within a second(s) during a fight

But if you didnt notice this mark on you OR if you notice but didnt dodge this one hit coming from stealth you are dead ,but if defender exploded in a small radius for 16.6k (obsly it was on some other guy without armor/toughness/protection) if you attack him 10 times and somehow managed to NOT see him its bad...

So my question is why 35k crits that instagib from stealth is fine but 16k crits from defender(why ppl hitting him anyway?) that visible and AFK stationary is not ok ?

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> So my question is why 35k crits that instagib from stealth is fine but 16k crits from defender(why ppl hitting him anyway?) that visible and AFK stationary is not ok ?

 

My question is why do you consider an obscenely visible mark for TWENTY ONE SECONDS of buildup an "instagib"