Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > My question is why do you consider an obscenely visible mark for TWENTY ONE SECONDS of buildup an "instagib"

>

> You don't need either:

> Wait for full malice or kill the marked target to instagib with DE.

> But I'm pretty sure as a thief you know that.

>

 

Um, yes, you do need to wait for full malice to kill the marked target. DJ without malice stacks does like 5k damage on crit, it won't even downstate another 11k hp berserker thief if you hit with both without the malice stack bonus.

 

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> But what you are risking if you being constantly in stealth, as reward you kill people with 1 hit ...

> Its doesnt fit for coqnuest thus should exist?

 

You're risking losing the game, because the TWENTY ONE SECONDS you spend in stealth while your team is losing the battle and subsequently failing to decap/capture the point is costing your team a lot more than you gain by forcing the other guy to press any of his 16+ buttons to avoid an obviously telegraphed attack that he's had 21 seconds to prepare for while you contributed nothing.

 

The way this typically plays out in actual combat is:

1. mark an enemy from stealth

2. while you are waiting 21 seconds for the chance to make your contribution to the fight, your team has probably already died OR the enemy captured the node you are contesting if you're by yourself

3. finally finish waiting 21 seconds, press rifle 4 - obvious telegraph - enemy presses one of his 16+ buttons to evade, block, destroy, or reflect the incoming projectile

4. other guy uses any cc and kills you with 1 or 2 regular attacks, OR, you were in mid and killed the afk baddie target, but since your team lost mid while you were afking for 21 seconds his buddy sees you down him and subsequently cc's and kills you, rallying him

 

Let's assume the enemy is bad, then this can also play out as:

1, 2 the same

4. enemy has no idea how to avoid attacks and dies in 1 hit to DJ on top of the node

5. you fire another DJ to kill his downstate, then proceed to capture the node

6. by the time you finish capturing the node, the enemy has respawned, forcing you to move off the point while you wait another 21 seconds to kill him again

7. repeat 1, 2

8. repeat 4

9. repeat 5

 

As this sequence continues, you begin to realize that the enemy has the node for longer than you and is getting points while you aren't. **This is against an enemy who has no idea how to press any of the buttons on his bar and is doing nothing other than running to and afk'ing at his point. Even in that instance you are still losing the game**

 

Lastly, anyone who understands how to get out of combat will be able to remove mark by running out of range for a few seconds then coming back before the stacks cap, making your build ACTUALLY useless.

 

That is not an exaggeration, that is what happens using a berserker DJ build.

 

Sorry, I don't know that much about defender and I'm not specifically asking for changes to defender, but anyone who is calling DJ an OP ability because of its damage scaling potential needs to understand how the game works. There is a reason why rifle isn't meta.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > My question is why do you consider an obscenely visible mark for TWENTY ONE SECONDS of buildup an "instagib"

> >

> > You don't need either:

> > Wait for full malice or kill the marked target to instagib with DE.

> > But I'm pretty sure as a thief you know that.

> >

>

> Um, yes, you do need to wait for full malice to kill the marked target. DJ without malice stacks does like 5k damage on crit, it won't even downstate another 11k hp berserker thief if you hit with both without the malice stack bonus.

 

That's simply not true.

With the shadow arts build you need half malice + sin's signet+dj to instagib.

With the trickery build you need 0 malice to instagib - signet+dj+trb.

 

 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > My question is why do you consider an obscenely visible mark for TWENTY ONE SECONDS of buildup an "instagib"

> > >

> > > You don't need either:

> > > Wait for full malice or kill the marked target to instagib with DE.

> > > But I'm pretty sure as a thief you know that.

> > >

> >

> > Um, yes, you do need to wait for full malice to kill the marked target. DJ without malice stacks does like 5k damage on crit, it won't even downstate another 11k hp berserker thief if you hit with both without the malice stack bonus.

>

> That's simply not true.

> With the shadow arts build you need half malice + sin's signet+dj to instagib.

> With the trickery build you need 0 malice to instagib - signet+dj+trb.

>

>

 

False.

 

Some numbers for you taken from the wiki:

Backstab: Back damage: 880 (2.4)?

Death's Judgement Damage: 696 (1.65)?

 

In other words DJ deals SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DAMAGE than backstab when it has no malice stacks. In fact 696 (1.65) is a pretty fucking pedestrian number compared to many abilities in gw2, there are a fuckton of abilites doing way more damage.

 

Gravedigger: Damage: 1,210 (3.0)?

Death spiral: Damage (6x): 798 (1.98)?

 

That's 2 out of 5 abilities on the bar of a reaper. Are you saying reaper is OP?

[floody.4951]

if this shit doesnt get nerfed in the next few weeks im gonna quit i swear, also fix fucking holo autoattack

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Milan.9035" said:

> just came here because had a few matches vs these raid boss mesmers. is this a bug or something? why is this not fixed yet lol. i guess soon everyone will be top 250 cause that will be the total population of pvp

 

lol I looked at the LB on NA...God is sad man, you can get(at the time that I looked) on top 250 being on Gold T3 lol well you cant blame people for refusing to play the game, sPvP used to be my favorite game mode but I allready switched to WvW roaming...if I gonna have to fight and deal with this unbalance at least I will do it where balance was never a thing to begin with.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

 

> False.

>

> Some numbers for you taken from the wiki:

> Backstab: Back damage: 880 (2.4)?

> Death's Judgement Damage: 696 (1.65)?

>

> In other words DJ deals SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DAMAGE than backstab when it has no malice stacks. In fact 696 (1.65) is a pretty kitten pedestrian number compared to many abilities in gw2, there are a fuckton of abilites doing way more damage.

>

> Gravedigger: Damage: 1,210 (3.0)?

> Death spiral: Damage (6x): 798 (1.98)?

>

> That's 2 out of 5 abilities on the bar of a reaper. Are you saying reaper is OP?

 

False.

Somehow you forgot all damage modifiers.

With zerker amulet/rune of scholar/sin's signet DJ deals - damage: 1965.

With demolisher/rune of scholar/sin signet Dj deals 1864. Add might from trickery and modifiers from critical traitline and you can instagib with dj+trb.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

>

> > False.

> >

> > Some numbers for you taken from the wiki:

> > Backstab: Back damage: 880 (2.4)?

> > Death's Judgement Damage: 696 (1.65)?

> >

> > In other words DJ deals SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DAMAGE than backstab when it has no malice stacks. In fact 696 (1.65) is a pretty kitten pedestrian number compared to many abilities in gw2, there are a fuckton of abilites doing way more damage.

> >

> > Gravedigger: Damage: 1,210 (3.0)?

> > Death spiral: Damage (6x): 798 (1.98)?

> >

> > That's 2 out of 5 abilities on the bar of a reaper. Are you saying reaper is OP?

>

> False.

> Somehow you forgot all damage modifiers.

> With zerker amulet/rune of scholar/sin's signet DJ deals - damage: 1965. add might from trickery and modifiers from critical traitline and you can instagib with dj+trb.

 

What part is false? The part that I linked directly from the wiki? The part where I do basic math to show you other abilities having higher damage than un-maliced DJ? ROFL

 

Buddy, you seem to be not udnerstanding that zerker amulet and scholar runes are something that every class has, as well as damage buffs from their traitline or utility skills. Literally every class has access to those things. If you're saying DJ is OP because of those things, so is literally every ability in the game.

 

What you're doing right now is the same as the guy who argued flanking strike did too much damage and linked a video of it doing 6k. It's just a goddamn stupid argument, it has the same scaling as an auto attack. If you died to it its because your build lacks any kind of defense and has no hp and you were afk while a guy with all damage and no survivability hit you in the back.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> >

> > > False.

> > >

> > > Some numbers for you taken from the wiki:

> > > Backstab: Back damage: 880 (2.4)?

> > > Death's Judgement Damage: 696 (1.65)?

> > >

> > > In other words DJ deals SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DAMAGE than backstab when it has no malice stacks. In fact 696 (1.65) is a pretty kitten pedestrian number compared to many abilities in gw2, there are a fuckton of abilites doing way more damage.

> > >

> > > Gravedigger: Damage: 1,210 (3.0)?

> > > Death spiral: Damage (6x): 798 (1.98)?

> > >

> > > That's 2 out of 5 abilities on the bar of a reaper. Are you saying reaper is OP?

> >

> > False.

> > Somehow you forgot all damage modifiers.

> > With zerker amulet/rune of scholar/sin's signet DJ deals - damage: 1965. add might from trickery and modifiers from critical traitline and you can instagib with dj+trb.

>

> What part is false? The part that I linked directly from the wiki? The part where I do basic math to show you other abilities having higher damage than un-maliced DJ? ROFL

>

> Buddy, you seem to be not udnerstanding that zerker amulet and scholar runes are something that every class has, as well as damage buffs from their traitline or utility skills. Literally every class has access to those things. If you're saying DJ is OP because of those things, so is literally every ability in the game.

 

The part that you say it's not possible to instagib with 0 malice.

I never said dj was OP, I said you can instagib with 0 malice using trick/crit/de - using mark as a stun+signet+dj+trb.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > >

> > > > False.

> > > >

> > > > Some numbers for you taken from the wiki:

> > > > Backstab: Back damage: 880 (2.4)?

> > > > Death's Judgement Damage: 696 (1.65)?

> > > >

> > > > In other words DJ deals SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DAMAGE than backstab when it has no malice stacks. In fact 696 (1.65) is a pretty kitten pedestrian number compared to many abilities in gw2, there are a fuckton of abilites doing way more damage.

> > > >

> > > > Gravedigger: Damage: 1,210 (3.0)?

> > > > Death spiral: Damage (6x): 798 (1.98)?

> > > >

> > > > That's 2 out of 5 abilities on the bar of a reaper. Are you saying reaper is OP?

> > >

> > > False.

> > > Somehow you forgot all damage modifiers.

> > > With zerker amulet/rune of scholar/sin's signet DJ deals - damage: 1965. add might from trickery and modifiers from critical traitline and you can instagib with dj+trb.

> >

> > What part is false? The part that I linked directly from the wiki? The part where I do basic math to show you other abilities having higher damage than un-maliced DJ? ROFL

> >

> > Buddy, you seem to be not udnerstanding that zerker amulet and scholar runes are something that every class has, as well as damage buffs from their traitline or utility skills. Literally every class has access to those things. If you're saying DJ is OP because of those things, so is literally every ability in the game.

>

> The part that you say it's not possible to instagib with 0 malice.

> I never said dj was OP, I said you can instagib with 0 malice using trick/crit/de - using mark as a stun+signet+dj+trb.

 

So are we arguing about real effectiveness of actual pvp builds or are we making stupid pointless comments about what is technically capable in wvw with dumb suicide builds? Most of the abilities in this game can oneshot an 11k hp thief under the right conditions, we are talking about real effectiveness of an ability which implies normal usage in a normal pvp build under normal pvp conditions. Why are you wasting everyone's time with this? FFS guy.

[Hylo.1968]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > >

> > > > > False.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some numbers for you taken from the wiki:

> > > > > Backstab: Back damage: 880 (2.4)?

> > > > > Death's Judgement Damage: 696 (1.65)?

> > > > >

> > > > > In other words DJ deals SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DAMAGE than backstab when it has no malice stacks. In fact 696 (1.65) is a pretty kitten pedestrian number compared to many abilities in gw2, there are a fuckton of abilites doing way more damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Gravedigger: Damage: 1,210 (3.0)?

> > > > > Death spiral: Damage (6x): 798 (1.98)?

> > > > >

> > > > > That's 2 out of 5 abilities on the bar of a reaper. Are you saying reaper is OP?

> > > >

> > > > False.

> > > > Somehow you forgot all damage modifiers.

> > > > With zerker amulet/rune of scholar/sin's signet DJ deals - damage: 1965. add might from trickery and modifiers from critical traitline and you can instagib with dj+trb.

> > >

> > > What part is false? The part that I linked directly from the wiki? The part where I do basic math to show you other abilities having higher damage than un-maliced DJ? ROFL

> > >

> > > Buddy, you seem to be not udnerstanding that zerker amulet and scholar runes are something that every class has, as well as damage buffs from their traitline or utility skills. Literally every class has access to those things. If you're saying DJ is OP because of those things, so is literally every ability in the game.

> >

> > The part that you say it's not possible to instagib with 0 malice.

> > I never said dj was OP, I said you can instagib with 0 malice using trick/crit/de - using mark as a stun+signet+dj+trb.

>

> So are we arguing about real effectiveness of actual pvp builds or are we making stupid pointless comments about what is technically capable in wvw with dumb suicide builds? Most of the abilities in this game can oneshot an 11k hp thief under the right conditions, we are talking about real effectiveness of an ability which implies normal usage in a normal pvp build under normal pvp conditions. Why are you wasting everyone's time with this? kitten guy.

 

what's this? aren't we going to give feedbacks to nerf mirages\chronos?

i've actually seen **a lot** of helpful suggestions

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> So are we arguing about real effectiveness of actual pvp builds or are we making stupid pointless comments about what is technically capable in wvw with dumb suicide builds? Most of the abilities in this game can oneshot an 11k hp thief under the right conditions, we are talking about real effectiveness of an ability which implies normal usage in a normal pvp build under normal pvp conditions. Why are you wasting everyone's time with this? kitten guy.

 

For the looks of it we're arguing about people dumb enough to attack a defender dozens of times and stay in his small range to get instagib by it, that's where it all started, remember?!

 

 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > >

> > > > False.

> > > >

> > > > Some numbers for you taken from the wiki:

> > > > Backstab: Back damage: 880 (2.4)?

> > > > Death's Judgement Damage: 696 (1.65)?

> > > >

> > > > In other words DJ deals SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DAMAGE than backstab when it has no malice stacks. In fact 696 (1.65) is a pretty kitten pedestrian number compared to many abilities in gw2, there are a fuckton of abilites doing way more damage.

> > > >

> > > > Gravedigger: Damage: 1,210 (3.0)?

> > > > Death spiral: Damage (6x): 798 (1.98)?

> > > >

> > > > That's 2 out of 5 abilities on the bar of a reaper. Are you saying reaper is OP?

> > >

> > > False.

> > > Somehow you forgot all damage modifiers.

> > > With zerker amulet/rune of scholar/sin's signet DJ deals - damage: 1965. add might from trickery and modifiers from critical traitline and you can instagib with dj+trb.

> >

> > What part is false? The part that I linked directly from the wiki? The part where I do basic math to show you other abilities having higher damage than un-maliced DJ? ROFL

> >

> > Buddy, you seem to be not udnerstanding that zerker amulet and scholar runes are something that every class has, as well as damage buffs from their traitline or utility skills. Literally every class has access to those things. If you're saying DJ is OP because of those things, so is literally every ability in the game.

>

> The part that you say it's not possible to instagib with 0 malice.

> I never said dj was OP, I said you can instagib with 0 malice using trick/crit/de - using mark as a stun+signet+dj+trb.

 

I just did the build you described and with assassins signet activated, target marked and all the revealed buffs up without any malice stacks DJ hits for reliably ~11k. This is literally ONLY a oneshot for another thief with also a berserker amulet and only if he has no defensive buffs (and he's still technically standing). I would argue that's not a guaranteed oneshot.


 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > So are we arguing about real effectiveness of actual pvp builds or are we making stupid pointless comments about what is technically capable in wvw with dumb suicide builds? Most of the abilities in this game can oneshot an 11k hp thief under the right conditions, we are talking about real effectiveness of an ability which implies normal usage in a normal pvp build under normal pvp conditions. Why are you wasting everyone's time with this? kitten guy.

>

> For the looks of it we're arguing about people dumb enough to attack a defender dozens of times and stay in his small range to get instagib by it, that's where it all started, remember?!

>

>

 

No, I never said anything about defender, that's what everyone else is saying. I said DJ is garbage, which it is, and that you can't oneshot someone without malice stacks, which I've just proven is correct.

[mes.4607]

Mesmer needs to be nerfed. It's too damn strong. Its evade mechanics on mirage are ridiculous. Extend the amount of time their auto attack changes from a dodge, but they should be able to dodge and attack. They're able to kite so well it's crazy. Mesmer is wild!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> I just did the build you described and with assassins signet activated, target marked and all the revealed buffs up without any malice stacks DJ hits for reliably ~11k. This is literally ONLY a oneshot for another thief with also a berserker amulet and only if he has no defensive buffs (and he's still technically standing). I would argue that's not a guaranteed oneshot.

> 

>

As I said mark as a stun+signet+dj+**TRB**. Add in the quickness trait instead of the malice one.

 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > I just did the build you described and with assassins signet activated, target marked and all the revealed buffs up without any malice stacks DJ hits for reliably ~11k. This is literally ONLY a oneshot for another thief with also a berserker amulet and only if he has no defensive buffs (and he's still technically standing). I would argue that's not a guaranteed oneshot.

> > 

> >

> As I said mark as a stun+signet+dj+**TRB**. Add in the quickness trait instead of the malice one.

>

 

No, that's not what you said. Here's the quote chain for those who are unable to follow:

 

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > My question is why do you consider an obscenely visible mark for TWENTY ONE SECONDS of buildup an "instagib"

> > >

> > > You don't need either:

> > > Wait for full malice or kill the marked target to instagib with DE.

> > > But I'm pretty sure as a thief you know that.

> > >

> >

> > Um, yes, you do need to wait for full malice to kill the marked target. DJ without malice stacks does like 5k damage on crit, it won't even downstate another 11k hp berserker thief if you hit with both without the malice stack bonus.

>

> That's simply not true.

> With the shadow arts build you need half malice + sin's signet+dj to instagib.

> With the trickery build you need 0 malice to instagib - signet+dj+trb.

 

The original comment was that you NEED to wait for malice before you can instagib anyone. You said you don't need full malice. In actual reality I did 25870 with a full suicide build and full malice stacks. With the same suicide build and 0 malice stacks I did ~11k damage, not enough to downstate a berserker amulet thief who will have at least 11645 hp.

 

You then LATER deflected and went off to add TRB, sorry, you're not going to get away with that with me. TRB is a second (actually 4th or 5th if we want to go through all the conditions) ability and is not an instagib.

 

Bottom line, you do not oneshot anyone using DJ without a full suicide build, full 7 stacks of malice, the PERFECT conditions (behind enemy, no defenses active, with revealed trait and several stacks of might), and the enemy being afk. These are the facts. Even then, a max hp character could still survive with 31572 HP pool, and a normal warrior or necro or etc build would still survive with a single defensive bonus of any kind, IE protection or barrier. Actually I suspect a warrior with 0 vitality in his build could still survive with enough toughness/armor.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > So are we arguing about real effectiveness of actual pvp builds or are we making stupid pointless comments about what is technically capable in wvw with dumb suicide builds? Most of the abilities in this game can oneshot an 11k hp thief under the right conditions, we are talking about real effectiveness of an ability which implies normal usage in a normal pvp build under normal pvp conditions. Why are you wasting everyone's time with this? kitten guy.

> >

> > For the looks of it we're arguing about people dumb enough to attack a defender dozens of times and stay in his small range to get instagib by it, that's where it all started, remember?!

> >

> >

>

> No, I never said anything about defender, that's what everyone else is saying. I said DJ is garbage, which it is, and that you can't oneshot someone without malice stacks, which I've just proven is correct.

 

Lets figure this out once and for all : instagib means to be killed in short amount of time or 1 hit. Its possible to being killed quick even with just DJ and triple tap.Thats been on sindrener stream ,long time ago ... Someone ask about 'viable DE or not' and 1 second later as sindrener come to point DE spammed triple taps with quickness so sindrener died because he wasnt suspecting that (no malice), as excuse sindrener said : OH COME ON ITS JUST ONESHOT BUILD. Idk how to find that 30s video but whatever. Lincolnbeard tested that ,still can get quick kill.

Zoopop was too mad, brought too much false claims/false(that all been disproven) info in his post based on emotions saying its random oneshot phantasm that need nothing to oneshot people on right and left .

I dont ask why DE rifle zerk is not meta.I asked why 30-35k crit (might not see cuz of server lags or whatever) is fine while defender that is completely visible ,have a different name on it ,small radius ,way less damage than that and unable to oneshot anyone from full health especially as he said BUNKER with defensive buffs. Lets quit this discussion ,okay ?

You better to give an idea how to fix chronophantasma without making it completely bad/unusable(That trait cant exist as it is now). Too many grandmaster traits are worthless alrdy .

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I said with shadow arts you need half malice.

With trick you need 0 but need TRB.

 

I don't know if you've reading issues, **quickness trait!**.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> I said with shadow arts you need half malice.

> With trick you need 0 but need TRB.

>

> I don't know if you've reading issues, **quickness trait!**.

 

This is the build that was used buddy:


 

If you can find a higher damaging DJ single shot build that you can actually use in pvp please do so. You can visually see in both images that I used all of the required traits to maximize DJ damage: attack from the side, fire after marking, fire with revealed buff, fire with might + fury. It's the most damage you can get out of the ability on your own. In actuality odik up there is saying DJ does 35k topend damage and from what I've seen it caps out at 25k unless you're using outside help.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > So are we arguing about real effectiveness of actual pvp builds or are we making stupid pointless comments about what is technically capable in wvw with dumb suicide builds? Most of the abilities in this game can oneshot an 11k hp thief under the right conditions, we are talking about real effectiveness of an ability which implies normal usage in a normal pvp build under normal pvp conditions. Why are you wasting everyone's time with this? kitten guy.

> > >

> > > For the looks of it we're arguing about people dumb enough to attack a defender dozens of times and stay in his small range to get instagib by it, that's where it all started, remember?!

> > >

> > >

> >

> > No, I never said anything about defender, that's what everyone else is saying. I said DJ is garbage, which it is, and that you can't oneshot someone without malice stacks, which I've just proven is correct.

>

> Lets figure this out once and for all : instagib means to be killed in short amount of time or 1 hit. Its possible to being killed quick even with just DJ and triple tap.Thats been on sindrener stream ,long time ago ... Someone ask about 'viable DE or not' and 1 second later as sindrener come to point DE spammed triple taps with quickness so sindrener died because he wasnt suspecting that (no malice), as excuse sindrener said : OH COME ON ITS JUST ONESHOT BUILD. Idk how to find that 30s video but whatever. Lincolnbeard tested that ,still can get quick kill.

> Zoopop was too mad, brought too much false claims/false(that all been disproven) info in his post based on emotions saying its random oneshot phantasm that need nothing to oneshot people on right and left .

> I dont ask why DE rifle zerk is not meta.I asked why 30-35k crit (might not see cuz of server lags or whatever) is fine while defender that is completely visible ,have a different name on it ,small radius ,way less damage than that and unable to oneshot anyone from full health especially as he said BUNKER with defensive buffs. Lets quit this discussion ,okay ?

> You better to give an idea how to fix chronophantasma without making it completely bad/unusable(That trait cant exist as it is now). Too many grandmaster traits are worthless alrdy .

 

It's POSSIBLE to be killed by pretty much anything in the game in a "short amount of time". But in real pvp this is not what happens. If sindrener died to TRB's that is his own fault, just because he's very good doesn't mean he can't accidentally die to a shitty build once in a blue moon. Sindrener would beat that same build 10/10 times if he wasn't asleep at the wheel. Dude was probably hung over and high on cocaine or something. And I just showed DJ does not do 35k without significant outside help. You literally can't do even 30k damage with DJ on your own in a pvp setting even with PERFECT CONDITIONS on a SUICIDE ZERKER build. It caps out just under 26k. This is with your entire build being focused on offense, with 11k hp, and after waiting 21 seconds and using sins signet with all available bonuses.

 

I'm not really commenting on CP right now, as a thief main I'm merely pointing out all the bullshit people are spouting about DJ. The ability is trash tier, stop talking about it.

 

If you want my opinion on mesmer I've already given it. The class does too many things too well, it needs to either lose mobility, lose damage, lose utility, or lose defenses. I say it should lose mobility, you say it should lose damage/utility depending on what you classify CP as. I have no issues with your proposed change, I think it's a fine idea. Others are saying mesmer has too much defense, I'm fine with those going away as well. I would rather mesmer lose mobility, but I'm fine with a CP change.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Stop focusing DJ only. It doesn't matter if DJ hits for 6k or 8k or whatever when you can followup quickly enough with TRB.

https://imgur.com/a/237bz

 

And no one is spouting about DJ, again, DJ came into the talk because people died to 16k defender.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Stop focusing DJ only. It doesn't matter if DJ hits for 6k or 8k or whatever when you can followup quickly enough with TRB.

> https://imgur.com/a/237bz

>

> And no one is spouting about DJ, again, DJ came into the talk because people died to 16k defender.

 

You made a claim that you can oneshot someone with DJ without malice, I proved that was incorrect. If you want to start debating on the quality of TRB now, or on DE as a whole, or on twoshot combos we can go there, but you're going to lose that argument as well because we've all seen DE in pvp and its trash.

 

How about we get back to the issue of mesmer? Odik has suggested changes to CP. I want changes to sword ambush. How about we get back on topic.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Again I said without malice you need TRB.

Yes DE is trash.

 

Back on topic, sw ambush now requires a target, there, mobility solved.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Again I said without malice you need TRB.

> Yes DE is trash.

>

> Back on topic, sw ambush now requires a target, there, mobility solved.

 

Agreed with the thief stuff.

As for sw ambush, idk if that would be enough. In fact I doubt it would be. You'd need to either remove the movement on sw ambush altogether or make your proposed change in addition to something else (just another small change would do). Also, chrono builds don't use mirage cloak so you'd probably need to do something about CP as odik is suggesting as well. Though IDK if odik would agree to that.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Odik new solution to CP is good imo, solves the spam and clutter and makes it still good.

As for sw ambush if the problem is mobility either that or (I think someone saying this but can't remember where) make sw ambush act like Ride the lightning, if you use it without a target gets an internal low cd.