Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > A hack resulting of a leak would likely cause a lot more damage with... I don't know... text logs from in game? personal info such as irl name? email?

> > >

> > > Tbh, irl names arent even THAT important.

> > > Knowing every process being run on a computer - on the other hand - makes it way easier to attack that computer, thats just a fact even amateurs should realize. Anet created a security risk with their behaviour, and they did it in a way thats unsavory and distasteful because it also was an infringement on everybodies privacy.

> > >

> > > And btw, we still dont know what Anet EXACTLY did with that data.

> > >

> > > The lack of concern about the security risks and infringement on privacy just plainly worry me. So what if other companies do the same or even worse? That doesnt make ANY of it right.

> >

> > About privacy, you accepted to be monitored while playing the game when you signed the ToS. There is really nothing else to say.

>

> Wrong. Read it please without bias.

>

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > The second scenario assumes that anet kept all hashed processes from everyone and is going to be hacked, causing a leak.

>

> Again, wrong. Simply by having gw2 client send that data to their server regularly and over an extended period of time they exposed that data.

>

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > Also, even having a salt does not necessarily protect you, if the formula (for example md5) is known and the salt is unique per client, anet still need to keep track of which client is using which salt in order to generate a set of hashes for the unauthorized programs per client.

>

> So what? Nobody said its easy to legally keep hackers away from your software. Anet went with the most lazy approach, and the one doing most damage to innocent bystanders.

>

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > Again, while yes in theory it could be possible to make use of such things, I think we're getting to paranoiac levels of concern. It's a WHOLE OTHER DEBATE in general. It doesn't only apply to this case, but also how do we know that our logs are safe today? How do we ensure that a leak isn't going to reveal my personal name + address?

>

> Again, your irl name and address isnt even the most interesting part about your computer. Dunno why you keep thinking that.

>

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > And not focusing on anet, how do you know that your banking data is safe is a leak happen at Microsoft, at Sony? At all these online stores that you go to everyday? Is all the data being transferred to them safe?

>

> THOSE have to get certified regularly either for me to buy something there, or by law (online banking). Dont compare apples and shoes please. Also, its nice of you to mention Microsoft, since THEY at least warn you upfront about the data they gather. For each case, not just hidden away in some broad UA statement.

>

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > But bringing that up NOW as an argument to fight a ban wave is plain hypocrisy, unless people were absolutely unaware of it all of that and have now disabled javascript, avoiding google, facebook, and have started a big fight for their privacy rights with all these companies, with microsoft and all.

>

> I was aware of it, I take countermeasures. But thats beside the point. I couldnt care less about the suspensions, except to find it *hilariously* laughable that Anet:

> a) thinks CheatEngine is mainly used for cheating

> b) wasnt even able to check for handles and

> c) didnt even ban way more offensive software

>

> As if someone that creates hacks and bots for mmos plays around with CheatEngine for long, just plain hilarious.

>

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > Anet shouldn't be burnt at the stake for it while sharing information with servers (the LARGE portion of it being for non malicious intents) has become a standard today, and when the MAIN purpose is to make everyone's experience better in their game!

>

> Yes, Anet should be burned for it, because they crossed a line there. They went and snooped around in my underwear drawers, put me under general suspicion without me giving them any reason and exposed my computer system to security risks.

 

- I do understand that they can monitor based on their ToS, It's also common sense to me, as it is for most multiplayer games trying to avoid cheaters. It's been discussed many times in this very thread and I am not circling back to it.

 

- What do you say wrong for? Assuming someone is sniffing your network, but then you're getting to the paranoiac level of concern I was mentioning earlier.

Okay yeah, you're in a hotel where a big geek convention is held, and you decide to play guild wars. Yep, a sniffer could see the list of md5 coming from your ip, figure out what these are for, find out which process you're using that has a potential backdoor and try to exploit it.

And by the time you're back home none of that would matter, since you wouldn't be on that local IP anymore.

If you're not in this case, yeah the gov agencies could sniff it, and these guys have better things to do really, or already have backdoors anyway.

 

- Because I consider data leak about personal information to be what actually matters, rather than what seems to be causing an outrage in this case, and regulation agencies tend to agree with that, also it's this kind of data that's actually in play on the facebook case.

 

- You're basically saying users don't read agreements and so shouldn't expect monitoring. Nope. doesn't work like that. Also again, common sense... "massively ONLINE multiplayer" game.

You're also assuming Microsoft tells you about it every time they take data from you, or that they tell you about every potential backdoor.... that's... concerning from someone that concerned about a list of running processes ending up on the internet.

 

- No, you're beside the point. You're talking about the inefficiency of an action, I'm talking about people blowing things out of proportions and blaming anet for even monitoring (which you did again with your first point about the ToS).

This whole kittening about Anet spying on us is beside the point. You should just be sticking up to these 3 bullet-ed points you made (which I understand and agree to an extend), and give up the rest.

 

- That's your opinion, I would rather have cheaters be out of the game, even if that means they're gonna look at my processes.

[Zaraki.5784]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > @"Jason.5983" One is still better than none, but again . . . good luck with convincing ANet otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > I am doubtful I need to convince them.

> > > > I have heard of some suspensions being lifted, and the backlash here in the discussion speaks for itself.

> > > >

> > > > Damage to a companies reputation can have effects on sales, and so forth.

> > >

> > > The ironic part is all this thread tells me is how good this game is, and how far people will go to convince ANet to let them play this game again if suspended from it.

> > >

> > > But damage control and so-called reputations is a whole 'nother topic.

> >

> > Nah the point of this thread has shifted from what you said to "anet are bad people for spying us".

> >

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > > > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Jason.5983" One is still better than none, but again . . . good luck with convincing ANet otherwise.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am doubtful I need to convince them.

> > > > > > > I have heard of some suspensions being lifted, and the backlash here in the discussion speaks for itself.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Damage to a companies reputation can have effects on sales, and so forth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The ironic part is all this thread tells me is how good this game is, and how far people will go to convince ANet to let them play this game again if suspended from it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But damage control and so-called reputations is a whole 'nother topic.

> > > > >

> > > > > That element is humorous in all games. I remember seeing it back in Runescape when I was a bit younger - it was mostly teenagers crying and claiming they wouldn't do it again.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would imagine most of the people who were banned recently, likely bought another account or are planning on it. Perhaps a certain amount left the game, for another or maybe they stopped playing games. I think if someone is willing to take that risk to bot, they feel it's a valid enough reason, be it gaining gold, which would probably mean they are somewhat addicted to the game and are quite likely to return, or literally for black market money, where it's foreseeable that some have still made more money than they have lost in time and money for a new account.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's a bit of a sad side of all this. People are also aware of the hashing, and I would imagine there is some technical way to hide your processes (there always is), meaning perhaps this method would be less efficient when used in the future. Can obviously contrast this to other methods of anti-cheating.

> > > >

> > > > The sad side of this is the people in the forums blindly defending ANET and claiming false bans are okay because ANET can do whatever they want

> > >

> > > It's not blindly defending ... it's simply accepting responsibility and acknowledging the space in which we play. Anet owns the accounts. They CAN do what they want with them. Accept it. That's NOT just an Anet thing either.

> >

> > I don't know if you truly realized what you said....no matter what ToS are, if a game company ban people _**without reasons**_ even if they can legally do that, be sure that people will stop buying their products and said company will fail the more the news spreads.

>

> I didn't say anything about Anet banning people without reasons ... and in this case they didn't.

 

I'm not referring to this specific case, I'm referring to your general statement "Anet owns the accounts. They CAN do what they want with them."

[Tasida.4085]

Those who got banned also agreed with the EULA. Consider it a lesson learned and play smarter when it is lifted. No sympathy here for those banned.

[GreyWolf.8670]

> @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > > Additionally, it's not spyware when you consent which everyone using this service did. You voluntarily gave up whatever perceived right to privacy when you consented to the user agreement which states in pretty clear as day terms that anet can scan your system for any tools that may be used to cheat or otherwise gain an unfair advantage.

> > > > >

> > > > > You would not say that if the tool had accessed your webcam and sent screenshots to Anet, just to monitor if nobody else is playing your account, because that would be against the ToS.

> > > > >

> > > > > Or maybe you would, the slavish obedience expressed to authority in many posts here by several people horrifies me.

> > > >

> > > > If i consented to it, i would allow it.

> > > > However, i don't own a webcam so your hypothetical Orwellian scenario falls flat.

> > > >

> > > > You know though whats even more horrifying than what you claim to be slavish obedience ? The sheer attempts to feign ignorance and pretending that anything you do online is protected. What you do online is about as protected as what you do in a park. Both are public spaces.

> > >

> > > And still, personally, Im wearing clothes in park... you know, for protecting my privacy.

> >

> > Wow are you intentionally missing the point.

> >

> > What you do in said park is public, it has consquences. What you do online is also public, it has consequences.

> >

> > If someone happens to catch you in the act of a crime in a public space, guess what....You're likely to face the consequences.

> > You get caught running a tool that can be utilized to cheat at the same time (not happenstance, not accident) for a sustained period of time in a service where you've agreed not to... You face the consequences.

> >

> > If you wish to continue to miss the point that's on you but i hope i dont have to explain this any further.

>

> But my desktop isn't a public space its private.

>

> > What you do in said park is public, it has consquences. What you do online is also public, it has consequences.

>

> It's like ANET looking through the window of my house, seeing i have a knife in my hand and assuming i'm going to murder someone and arresting me.

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

 

Section 7 part D:

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO...

 

If you played the game agreeing to the license you gave them the right to do this. Note the EULA last update is 2015.

[ffletcher.3468]

"Monitoring" in my view does not involve data transfers from my computer to their servers.

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[Rankomonaut.4708]

Trying to log in gives you : Your Guild Wars 2 account has been suspended for modifying or tampering with the game, which is a breach of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct. Access will be restored in 4242 hour. message

 

IF they would check me good they would have seen that I didn't modidy or tamper with their game, but instead they tell me I did and punished me. And yes, I used cheat engine for and idle clicker game that runs while I play the real games (Dark Souls, Guild Wars, Fallout, Witcher, whatever I play).

 

1st: their susp. message is just plain wrong because having a program running does mean jackkitten - or else even my OS would be 3rd party software ;D

2nd: they decided to spy on us and then STOP RIGHT BEFORE THEY COULD FIND :::REAL EVIDENCE:::

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[morrolan.9608]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > Also, even having a salt does not necessarily protect you, if the formula (for example md5) is known and the salt is unique per client, anet still need to keep track of which client is using which salt in order to generate a set of hashes for the unauthorized programs per client.

> > > >

> > > > So what? Nobody said its easy to legally keep hackers away from your software. Anet went with the most lazy approach, and the one doing most damage to innocent bystanders.

> > > >

> > >

> > > But no damage has been done at all. I wish people with zero knowledge about this would stop talking.

> >

> > So those people who say had Cheat Engine for legitimate uses who got banned are irrelevant? This sure is a great community.

> >

>

> CheatEngine has legitimate uses. Having CheatEngine running while you're playing GW2 or indeed any online multiplayer game is stupid. CheatEngine being on your system isn't what got anyone banned. Having CheatEngine running while GW2 was running is what flagged accounts for a ban.

 

Yet we've been able to do it for 6 years, now without warning they get a ban without actually doing anything.

[Ubi.4136]

> @"SlateSloan.3654" said:

 

> you cannot say that someone who sits in a car gets punished for speeding if you have no proof that the person drove over the limits.

 

Let me fix your analogy for you:

This is like you sitting behind the wheel of your car drunk with the car off but the key IN the ignition. (logged in to guild wars with cheat software running)

An officer shows up, does a sobriety check and you go to jail for DUI. Sure, your car isn't moving, you aren't driving, but the intent/possibility is there.

The law says that you are guilty. Anet, by their own set of laws, has deemed you guilty. Why you may ask? Because you have their game open with cheating software open at the same time.

 

Honestly, I don't care if you cheat in other games (mmo or other), but you aren't "innocent". Most of the "apology" videos/writeups I see, those people are cheating in pretty much everything they play. Anet doesn't need to prove anything, but they did catch an awful lot of people with their hands in the cookie jar, even ones who claim they were just making sure the cookies were safe and had no intention of eating any.

 

 

 

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

People really need to stop admitting they use cheats like the ones ANet listed as not allowed on these forums . . . even if it was for other games.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > Also, even having a salt does not necessarily protect you, if the formula (for example md5) is known and the salt is unique per client, anet still need to keep track of which client is using which salt in order to generate a set of hashes for the unauthorized programs per client.

> > > > >

> > > > > So what? Nobody said its easy to legally keep hackers away from your software. Anet went with the most lazy approach, and the one doing most damage to innocent bystanders.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > But no damage has been done at all. I wish people with zero knowledge about this would stop talking.

> > >

> > > So those people who say had Cheat Engine for legitimate uses who got banned are irrelevant? This sure is a great community.

> > >

> >

> > CheatEngine has legitimate uses. Having CheatEngine running while you're playing GW2 or indeed any online multiplayer game is stupid. CheatEngine being on your system isn't what got anyone banned. Having CheatEngine running while GW2 was running is what flagged accounts for a ban.

>

> Yet we've been able to do it for 6 years, now without warning they get a ban without actually doing anything.

 

Oh sure, they weren't doing anything :wink: :wink: just like I never speed.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > @"SlateSloan.3654" said:

>

> > you cannot say that someone who sits in a car gets punished for speeding if you have no proof that the person drove over the limits.

>

> Let me fix your analogy for you:

> This is like you sitting behind the wheel of your car drunk with the car off but the key IN the ignition. (logged in to guild wars with cheat software running)

> An officer shows up, does a sobriety check and you go to jail for DUI. Sure, your car isn't moving, you aren't driving, but the intent/possibility is there.

> The law says that you are guilty. Anet, by their own set of laws, has deemed you guilty. Why you may ask? Because you have their game open with cheating software open at the same time.

Let me fix your analogy when applied to cheat engine for you:

Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running is like standing outside of several cars in the driveway while drunk with keys in hand -- you won't get a DUI unless there is further evidence that you had driven while drunk.

Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running and attached to guild wars is like sitting drunk in your car with the key in the ignition, though its clear the car hasn't been driven yet (cold engine + tires) -- you can get in trouble for an attempted DUI.

Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running and attached to Solitaire is like sitting drunk in your car with the keys in the ignition of the car parked in front of you.

 

> Honestly, I don't care if you cheat in other games (mmo or other), but you aren't "innocent". Most of the "apology" videos/writeups I see, those people are cheating in pretty much everything they play. Anet doesn't need to prove anything, but they did catch an awful lot of people with their hands in the cookie jar, even ones who claim they were just making sure the cookies were safe and had no intention of eating any.

And you aren't innocent either -- I'm sure you've cheated or broken a rule at one point or another in another game, virtual or physical (board game, maybe a sport?). And denying these allegations won't help your case, because anything you say will just make you look like a liar, because naturally that's how these accusatory statements work, right? :)

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"ffletcher.3468" said:

> "Monitoring" in my view does not involve data transfers from my computer to their servers.

 

How do they take action if what was monitored cannot be reported to them.......

 

I feel like we're back two decade where people are slowly figuring out what the internet is.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > Also, even having a salt does not necessarily protect you, if the formula (for example md5) is known and the salt is unique per client, anet still need to keep track of which client is using which salt in order to generate a set of hashes for the unauthorized programs per client.

> >

> > So what? Nobody said its easy to legally keep hackers away from your software. Anet went with the most lazy approach, and the one doing most damage to innocent bystanders.

> >

>

> But no damage has been done at all. I wish people with zero knowledge about this would stop talking.

>

> Also did you ever heared of "The end justifies the means."? They cannot let thousands of cheaters go unpunished just because some clueless people blow this out of proportion. There are literally thousands of areas where complains about privacy would be justified. This case isnt.

 

The damage was done when Anet accessed data outside gw2 *and* send parts of that data to their servers.

 

The end **NEVER** justifies the means. On the contrary, illegal or unethical measures invalidate positive results. Fun fact here, cheating is exactly that... end result justifying the means. Think about it.

[Ubi.4136]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> The damage was done when Anet accessed data outside gw2 *and* send parts of that data to their servers.

 

You do realize that just about every game company does this (actually, I think just about every "company" does now too).

[Ubi.4136]

> @"Nightlark.4029" said:

 

> Let me fix your analogy when applied to cheat engine for you:

> Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running is like standing outside of several cars in the driveway while drunk with keys in hand -- you won't get a DUI unless there is further evidence that you had driven while drunk.

 

If you are logged IN to the game AND have the cheat software on AT THE SAME TIME, you are clearly inside the car. with the keys in the ignition. You have the option to drive (or to use your cheat software). Anet does not need to know anything else, and neither does law enforcement. I'm just sad the suspensions aren't bans, but it was nice they at least made them longer than 3 days.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > @"Nightlark.4029" said:

>

> > Let me fix your analogy when applied to cheat engine for you:

> > Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running is like standing outside of several cars in the driveway while drunk with keys in hand -- you won't get a DUI unless there is further evidence that you had driven while drunk.

>

> If you are logged IN to the game AND have the cheat software on AT THE SAME TIME, you are clearly inside the car. with the keys in the ignition. You have the option to drive (or to use your cheat software). Anet does not need to know anything else, and neither does law enforcement. I'm just sad the suspensions aren't bans, but it was nice they at least made them longer than 3 days.

There is a big difference between Cheat Engine being attached to GW2 and not being attached to GW2 -- and that is something that ANet could have detected with a small amount of additional code. Your response seems to shows a lack of understanding of what Cheat Engine is (and how it falls into the tools category more than cheat category like other software ANet was looking for) -- I'd suggest checking out the software and learning more about it, maybe even trying it out to gain a basic understanding of its operation (not with GW2 -- try messing with the timer in minesweeper), and learn about some of its legitimate (non-cheating) uses as a development tool before claiming that simply having cheat engine running is the equivalent of having keys in the ignition.

 

With any of the other software ANet was banning for, I'd agree with your analogy, but with Cheat Engine, simply the program running is the equivalent of being outside the car -- it can't touch GW2 unless the person using it decides to _attach_ it to the GW2 process, at which point it can begin interacting with GW2; that is like having the key in the ignition, since it shows obvious intent to use it to "cheat" in GW2, even though they haven't carried out the action yet. Otherwise, Cheat Engine could easily be attached to Notepad, which would be the equivalent of the keys being in the ignition of the car parked in front of you -- when attached to Notepad, Cheat Engine will not interact with GW2 in any way.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

This thread has gone off topic

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> This thread has gone off topic

 

It’s still related to suspensions ANet gave out. But it’s more debate about freedoms/privacy, whether they had enough checks in place to accurately ascertain guilt, what is enforceable in the ToS, and poorly crafted analogies.

 

Some of the subtopics may have initially been separate threads, but they got merged into this one, which may have made it messier.

 

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > @"ffletcher.3468" said:

> > "Monitoring" in my view does not involve data transfers from my computer to their servers.

>

> How do they take action if what was monitored cannot be reported to them.......

>

> I feel like we're back two decade where people are slowly figuring out what the internet is.

 

It's funny that it's mostly techies here (and on reddit) who can explain why the tool is spyware and violates your privacy. We know exactly how the Internet and computers work, what processes are and packages and how encrypting works. People who haven't figured out how things work usually have no issue with it. Those who only have a vague understanding of things tend to trust authorites more.

 

@your question: They could have done the monitoring and filtering and getting positives locally, and only send the hits to their server. That way, Anet wouldn't have filled a database on their servers with personal information like IP addresses combined with all software you are running. I would have been fine with that.

 

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > The damage was done when Anet accessed data outside gw2 *and* send parts of that data to their servers.

>

> You do realize that just about every game company does this (actually, I think just about every "company" does now too).

 

No, they don't. They do it in a less invasive way and don't send all the data to their servers. Your assumption is uninformed, but the information is even in this thread.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> >

> > But no damage has been done at all. I wish people with zero knowledge about this would stop talking.

> >

> > Also did you ever heared of "The end justifies the means."? They cannot let thousands of cheaters go unpunished just because some clueless people blow this out of proportion. There are literally thousands of areas where complains about privacy would be justified. This case isnt.

>

> The damage was done when Anet accessed data outside gw2 *and* send parts of that data to their servers.

>

> The end **NEVER** justifies the means. On the contrary, illegal or unethical measures invalidate positive results. Fun fact here, cheating is exactly that... end result justifying the means. Think about it.

 

In other words, those caught cheating are asking ANet to be more ethical than they were themselves. You'll excuse me if I dismiss this attempt at qualifying 'justification' and the results. They got caught cheating. Dissecting the minutia of how, why, and with what doesn't interest me.

 

This isn't a court of law. This is a video game. And trying to shade ANet as some mustache-twirling villain here isn't doing anyone any favors.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

This thing is not a big deal they read what your pc is doing while playing most online games do even most programs do

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > @"ffletcher.3468" said:

> > > "Monitoring" in my view does not involve data transfers from my computer to their servers.

> >

> > How do they take action if what was monitored cannot be reported to them.......

> >

> > I feel like we're back two decade where people are slowly figuring out what the internet is.

>

> It's funny that it's mostly techies here (and on reddit) who can explain why the tool is spyware and violates your privacy. We know exactly how the Internet and computers work, what processes are and packages and how encrypting works. People who haven't figured out how things work usually have no issue with it. Those who only have a vague understanding of things tend to trust authorites more.

 

It ... doesn't change the fact that you accept to be monitored to an extend by agreeing to the ToS.

 

And that in order to fight cheaters, at some point they need some information about what you're doing.

Again... (and again, and again) this is not about whether it could have been/be improved, it's about this whole attitude of trying to turn an attempt as sanitizing the game into an evil scheme. I'm sorry to not be paranoid like my fellow techies. I understand what could be done with it, I also understand that as of the age of today, it's not a huge deal, and only non techies are gonna believe that and freak out even though they're already sending info every single day.

 

So yes, Anet, improve your methods, BUT thank you for at least trying to do something, and sorry that all you ever get from this community is people calling you EA and Facebook.

[Shikigami.4013]

> @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > @"Jason.5983" One is still better than none, but again . . . good luck with convincing ANet otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > I am doubtful I need to convince them.

> > > > I have heard of some suspensions being lifted, and the backlash here in the discussion speaks for itself.

> > > >

> > > > Damage to a companies reputation can have effects on sales, and so forth.

> > >

> > > The ironic part is all this thread tells me is how good this game is, and how far people will go to convince ANet to let them play this game again if suspended from it.

> > >

> > > But damage control and so-called reputations is a whole 'nother topic.

> >

> > That element is humorous in all games. I remember seeing it back in Runescape when I was a bit younger - it was mostly teenagers crying and claiming they wouldn't do it again.

> >

> > I would imagine most of the people who were banned recently, likely bought another account or are planning on it. Perhaps a certain amount left the game, for another or maybe they stopped playing games. I think if someone is willing to take that risk to bot, they feel it's a valid enough reason, be it gaining gold, which would probably mean they are somewhat addicted to the game and are quite likely to return, or literally for black market money, where it's foreseeable that some have still made more money than they have lost in time and money for a new account.

> >

> > That's a bit of a sad side of all this. People are also aware of the hashing, and I would imagine there is some technical way to hide your processes (there always is), meaning perhaps this method would be less efficient when used in the future. Can obviously contrast this to other methods of anti-cheating.

>

> The sad side of this is the people in the forums blindly defending ANET and claiming false bans are okay because ANET can do whatever they want

 

As stated several times, all the people who think ArenaNet can not do what the user agreement specifically allows ArenaNet to, because their counrty says "No, no, no, this is not legal" may tell ArenaNet that they may not suspend them because the user agreement is not valid for them. Have fun with the outcome of it.

 

I don't know if you are german Twoodi or if you just jumped on what some german people said, but the settled case law in germany invalidates an EULA only if the customer was made aware of it after the purchase. The GW2 base game and creating a GW2 account has been free for years now. The expansions that are actually bought only expand an existing free game. Nice little twist eh?

 

The things that really are invalid in any EULA, regardless of you accept them or not, are sections that are in conflict of the law of your country. This applies to all EULA even if you were made aware of them before you purchased the software.