evilsofa.7296 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > The flax farms in Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink, like all other farms I've encountered, would give me four hits total if I was lucky. No surprise there. > > Now, Orrian Pearls . . . that was a surprise. As far as I know, I farmed every, single pearl in the zone . . . and not one gave me an extra hit. In two cases, I got an extra pearl for a total of two from those nodes in one hit, but I believe that's normal regardless. So yes, Glyph of Bounty will not help with Orrian Pearls. Just to be sure, I'll file a bug report. > > I suspect this has to do with certain quests in the zone, but I'm hoping this is a bug instead. Yet, given how every other node in the zone gave me the usual amount of extra hits, I suspect it's not a bug and intended due to those above mentioned quests. > > Just to be sure, I'll file a bug report. I'm going to guess that it's working as intended, because the tradeoffs for no extra strikes are: 1. You can farm the 21 or so nodes with each character each day 2. You get at least one Orrian Pearl on every harvest. That makes it the second most plentiful harvest per account per day after Winterberries. All of the others have much more severe restraints on how many you can harvest each day. In fact, I suspect the no extra strikes rule was done in order to make Orrian Pearls not as plentiful as Winterberries so it would be difficult to generate 6 ascended backpacks in a single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I suspect, given what happened with Winterberries, your theory is on the mark. Still . . . I'd like to know for sure. Here's to hoping it's a bug! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I *think* there is a single Orrian Pearl node which can multistrike, which is the one in the northeast of the map. At a glance, the data implying that bonus strike chance is heavily weighted towards the first bonus strike on a plant node appears to be correct. I am getting very very few 4x strikes when I should probably be getting many, many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsofa.7296 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > I *think* there is a single Orrian Pearl node which can multistrike, which is the one in the northeast of the map. > > At a glance, the data implying that bonus strike chance is heavily weighted towards the first bonus strike on a plant node appears to be correct. I am getting very very few 4x strikes when I should probably be getting many, many more. Using plant nodes such as flax because it is easiest to see what is going on: you get a 1 in 3 chance to generate an extra strike on the initial hit. That extra strike has a 33% chance of generating another extra strike; therefore, any given plant node has a 1 in 9 chance of generating two extra strikes. Continue this progression and there is a 1 in 27 chance of generating three extra strikes. 1/3 = 33.3333%, 1/9 = 11.1111%, 1/27 = 3.7037%. Out of 100 strikes, the single extra strikes should generate 33.3333 extra strikes; the double extra strikes should generate 22.2222 extra strikes; and the triple extra strikes should generate 11.1111 extra strikes. 33.3333+22.2222+11.1111=66.6666 extra strikes per 100 normal strikes. In a relatively modest run of 306 flax nodes with the Glyph of Bounty, I saw 204 extra strikes, or 66.6667% extra strikes. Perfect. Major edit: figured out where I went wrong in my math - 1/27 not 1/81 - and edited the rest of the post that followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsofa.7296 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I finally figured out something I've been seeing that confused me. While harvesting Winterberries with the Glyph of Bounty, I would sometimes also harvest trees standing right next to the Winterberries. Sometimes I would get an extra strike from the tree. Why? Because, on your first strike of a node, the Glyph of Bounty gives you a boon, called Glyph of Bounty, that lasts for 4 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 > @"evilsofa.7296" said: > In a relatively modest run of 306 flax nodes with the Glyph of Bounty, I saw 204 extra strikes, or 66.6667% extra strikes. Perfect. > > Major edit: figured out where I went wrong in my math - 1/27 not 1/81 - and edited the rest of the post that followed. This does not appear correct. As Drarnor illustrated earlier 1 extra hit: 29 plants (96.7%) 2 extra hits: 8 plants (26.7%) 3 extra hits: 2 plants (6.7%) 4 extra hits: 0 plants (0%) Is my experience. To me it does not seem that the boosters have clear mechanics or are working as advertised. They do not operate as a simple additive function; I'm using all three boosts, and I am not getting the number of 4x strikes which I should be (.99^3=.97% chance for a strike to be a quad strike). They don't seem to operate multiplicatively, or as three 'rolls', as I'm not good at statistics but I'm pretty sure this ends up being 1-.67^3=.69, which is also not anywhere near the near-certain chance for a second strike. The modifier does not describe a total gathering yield, otherwise the data that Drarnor and I have both seen would not be the case (as you obviously cannot be getting +66% yield from +97% strikes). I have seen precious little evidence suggesting that Glyph+Booster+Weekend is actually having any kind of benefit over Glyph+Booster. At a glance, Booster+Weekend do not appear to be stacking, or there is a different calculation going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted April 22, 2018 Author Share Posted April 22, 2018 > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > > @"evilsofa.7296" said: > > In a relatively modest run of 306 flax nodes with the Glyph of Bounty, I saw 204 extra strikes, or 66.6667% extra strikes. Perfect. > > > > Major edit: figured out where I went wrong in my math - 1/27 not 1/81 - and edited the rest of the post that followed. > > This does not appear correct. > > As Drarnor illustrated earlier > 1 extra hit: 29 plants (96.7%) > 2 extra hits: 8 plants (26.7%) > 3 extra hits: 2 plants (6.7%) > 4 extra hits: 0 plants (0%) > > Is my experience. > > To me it does not seem that the boosters have clear mechanics or are working as advertised. They do not operate as a simple additive function; I'm using all three boosts, and I am not getting the number of 4x strikes which I should be (.99^3=.97% chance for a strike to be a quad strike). They don't seem to operate multiplicatively, or as three 'rolls', as I'm not good at statistics but I'm pretty sure this ends up being 1-.67^3=.69, which is also not anywhere near the near-certain chance for a second strike. The modifier does not describe a total gathering yield, otherwise the data that Drarnor and I have both seen would not be the case (as you obviously cannot be getting +66% yield from +97% strikes). > > I have seen precious little evidence suggesting that Glyph+Booster+Weekend is actually having any kind of benefit over Glyph+Booster. At a glance, Booster+Weekend do not appear to be stacking, or there is a different calculation going on. You're arguing two different things. evilsofa is saying that the average for just one modifier (glyph, weekend bonus, or booster) has an average expected yield on plants and their sampling matched that expectation. It says nothing about adding in more modifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsofa.7296 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Know that a very elegant description for Additional Strikes has been posted to the wiki page for Gathering and linked to from Glyph of Bounty and Shifting Sands Mining Pick: [Notes on Additonal Strikes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gathering#Notes_on_Additional_Strikes "Notes on Additonal Strikes") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Given how you get a guaranteed Orrian pearl as mentioned earlier, and there's been zero response to the bug report, I'm going to guess it's intended. Even with the bonus weekend, nothing changed as far as more hits or pearls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted April 22, 2018 Author Share Posted April 22, 2018 > @"evilsofa.7296" said: > Know that a very elegant description for Additional Strikes has been posted to the wiki page for Gathering and linked to from Glyph of Bounty and Shifting Sands Mining Pick: > > [Notes on Additonal Strikes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gathering#Notes_on_Additional_Strikes "Notes on Additonal Strikes") Good to see and I made a small edit on the wiki reflecting the Black Lion Garden Plots. After a bit more testing, I will probably edit it again with the interactions of multiple strike boosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsofa.7296 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 I did the same 34 nodes from the four flax farms again with my 9 characters for the same total of 306 nodes as before, while using the Glyph of Bounty, the only difference this time being that I also had the Bonus Weekend Event buff on, which is supposed to be another 33% chance for extra strike, like the Item Booster and Glyph of Bounty effects. I can confirm that the last node harvested of each of the four farms always returns only one strike, which is very curious. Out of 306 nodes, I got 38 with no extra strikes (36 of these were the last nodes of the farms); 195 nodes with 1 extra strike; 57 nodes with 2 extra strikes; 8 nodes with 3 extra strikes. 38 is 12.42% of 306; 195 is 63.73% of 306; 57 is 18.63% of 306; 8 is 2.61% of 306. 57 x 2 = 114; 8 x 3 = 24; 195+114+24 = 333 extra strikes, which is 108.82% of 306. If two 33% bonuses added up to a 66% chance at an extra strike, you would get a 2 in 3 chance to generate an extra strike on the initial hit. That extra strike has a 66% chance of generating another extra strike; therefore, any given plant node has a 2 in 9 chance of generating two extra strikes, and a 2 in 27 chance of generating 3 extra strikes. 2/3 = 66.6666%; 2/9 = 22.2222%; 2/27 = 7.4074%. Out of 100 strikes, the single extra strikes should generate 66.6666 extra strikes; the double extra strikes should generate 44.4444 extra strikes; and the triple extra strikes should generate 22.2222 extra strikes. 66.6666+44.4444+22.2222=133.3332 extra strikes per 100 strikes. But I actually got 108.82 extra strikes per 100 strikes. What happens if those 36 strikes that were forced to have no extra strikes were generating extra strikes? 133.3332% of 36 is 48; 333+48=381; 391 is 124.51% of 306, not quite good enough. What happens if we pretend the forced 36 didn't happen? 306-36=270; 333 is 123.33% of 270. Either two 33% bonuses to extra strike do not simply add up to 66%, or my data sets are too small to verify and the first time around being perfect was a fluke. Since others have been saying they don't seem to be getting enough for a 66% bonus, it seems as if stacking this bonus is not simply additive. There is, however, no doubt that the Bonus Weekend Event boon is having a significant effect, increasing extra strikes per node from 66.666% to 108.82%. One final calculation: the percentage increase from 66.6666% to 108.52% is 63.23% - which is almost 66%. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted April 22, 2018 Author Share Posted April 22, 2018 > @"evilsofa.7296" said: > Either two 33% bonuses to extra strike do not simply add up to 66%, or my data sets are too small to verify and the first time around being perfect was a fluke. Since others have been saying they don't seem to be getting enough for a 66% bonus, it seems as if stacking this bonus is not simply additive. > My tests suggest that once one of the extra strike chances procs, all others "turn off" for that node. In other words, boosters and such don't stack after the first extra strike, only the first. However, they also seem to stack oddly on that first extra strike. In your tests, if they stacked additively, you should have only seen ~202 nodes that generated an extra strike. Stacking multiplicitively, you should have seen ~138 nodes that did the same. Instead, you saw 268 nodes that generated extra strikes, which is well above expectations (87.6%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsofa.7296 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 306 plant nodes. First test with only Glyph of Bounty: 204 extra strikes, or 66% more strikes than base. Second test with Glyph of Bounty and Bonus Weekend Event boon: 333 extra strikes, an increase of 63.24% more strikes than base plus Glyph of Bounty. I think this was subject to RNG and would have gotten closer to 66% with a larger sample size, A mere 7 more strikes, or 340 strikes would have done it. I suggest that a third bonus, from Item Booster, would increase the number of extra strikes to 566 (66% more than 340). 306 plant nodes would increase to 510 total strikes (66% more total strikes) with one bonus, to 646 total strikes (111% more total strikes) with two bonuses, and to 872 total strikes (184% more total strikes) with all three bonuses. Is this anything like what other people are seeing? Edit: if the actual results are always falling just short of my suggested totals, it's probably the last nodes of each flax farm being forced to not have extra strikes. What a peculiar bit of code that is; I wonder why they do that. If I drop the last nodes of each farm from the calculations, then my first test with only Glyph of Bounty goes over that perfect 66.6667%. It may simply be that RNG favored me in a very coincidental way on the first test and swung the other way on the second test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I'm honestly starting to believe the bonus weekend did nothing for those who use Glyph of Bounty. At least, from my experience, the yields were exactly the same. Indeed, it feels very RNG. Also, I suspect the bonus weekend overwrote Glyph of the County's bonus and they did not in fact stack as was claimed by ANet. Everything I experienced suggested exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > I'm honestly starting to believe the bonus weekend did nothing for those who use Glyph of Bounty. At least, from my experience, the yields were exactly the same. > > Indeed, it feels very RNG. Also, I suspect the bonus weekend overwrote Glyph of the County's bonus and they did not in fact stack as was claimed by ANet. > > Everything I experienced suggested exactly that. My experience was the opposite, actually. I noticed no difference between glyph+booster and glyph+weekend and booster+weekend, which is all exactly as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Tier Six nodes, like Ori ore and Orrian wood, have a small chance . . . a _very_ small chance . . . of giving two extra hits with Glyph of Bounty. I suspect it's possible they can give a total of six, like their counterparts, but I also suspect this number is infinitely low. I've gotten five hits on Ori ore in Istan and five hits on Ancient Wood in Ember Bay, but those two have been the only times it's occurred. That said, it's entirely possible these two nodes would've given four hits without the Glyph, as I've encountered this situation in the past six years a handful of times before, but the Glyph gave the extra hit regardless for a total of five. That said, I still think four hits is the norm save for these rare nodes that give four hits regardless. The fifth hit must happen because of the Glyph as I've never gotten five hits from any Tier Six nodes prior to the Glyph of Bounty, but have gotten four as mentioned earlier. Will keep testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindariel.2354 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37502/game-update-notes-april-24-2018#latest >Divinity's Reach: Entering the Salma District will no longer scale the player's level down to 15. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 Noted and editing the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Notes on additional strikes: When you receive an extra strike on a node, you get to gather from the node an additional time. There are certain details and limits: Some nodes cannot receive additional strikes: All rich metal veins All home instance nodes except for those from the Black Lion Garden Plot Deed (which do receive extra strikes) Guild hall synthesizers **Orrian Oysters** There is a limit of three additional strikes per node. For example, normal metal nodes have a hard cap of six strikes per node. Nodes with a per-day harvest limit (such as Bloodstone Crystals) interact differently with extra strikes: For Bloodstone Crystals, Petrified Stumps, and Jade Fragments, extra strikes are allowed and do not count towards the daily limit. Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gathering#Notes_on_Additional_Strikes Ah well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"evilsofa.7296" said: > I suggest that a third bonus, from Item Booster, would increase the number of extra strikes to 566 (66% more than 340). 306 plant nodes would increase to 510 total strikes (66% more total strikes) with one bonus, to 646 total strikes (111% more total strikes) with two bonuses, and to 872 total strikes (184% more total strikes) with all three bonuses. Is this anything like what other people are seeing? 111% is almost exactly the yield increase I see on my regular farming with Bounty+Item Booster. I've gotten around 1400-1450 Flax on 58 characters per day (hitting the Jaka Itzel nodes). Average for a character with no strike increases should be around 700 so 111% seems about on the mark, striking 7 nodes which are eligible for the bonus strikes and 1 which is not(the last node). +184% on three bonuses, though, is absolutely not what I saw. I saw what might be a +10% increase from the third booster but that could easily be chalked up to slightly better luck. I did not record statistics unfortunately. I am still fairly certain that there were no actual benefits from having both the Item Booster and the Weekend Booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemis.6781 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > > @"evilsofa.7296" said: > > I suggest that a third bonus, from Item Booster, would increase the number of extra strikes to 566 (66% more than 340). 306 plant nodes would increase to 510 total strikes (66% more total strikes) with one bonus, to 646 total strikes (111% more total strikes) with two bonuses, and to 872 total strikes (184% more total strikes) with all three bonuses. Is this anything like what other people are seeing? > > 111% is almost exactly the yield increase I see on my regular farming with Bounty+Item Booster. I've gotten around 1400-1450 Flax on 58 characters per day (hitting the Jaka Itzel nodes). Average for a character with no strike increases should be around 700 so 111% seems about on the mark, striking 7 nodes which are eligible for the bonus strikes and 1 which is not(the last node). > > +184% on three bonuses, though, is absolutely not what I saw. I saw what might be a +10% increase from the third booster but that could easily be chalked up to slightly better luck. I did not record statistics unfortunately. I am still fairly certain that there were no actual benefits from having both the Item Booster and the Weekend Booster. I have to agree with you. From what I experienced today, I do not believe that the glyph of bounty plus booster worked with the weekend bonus. (On flax in VB & Draconis) My extra strikes were pretty much identical to the weekend bonus and I gathered nearly the same amount of flax. I have 16 characters that i do these 2 flax farms on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 @"artemis.6781" Agreed . . . sadly. My experience was the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsofa.7296 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 So, in summary, you can get two bonuses from Glyph of Bounty, Item Booster and Bonus Weekend Event, but not all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"evilsofa.7296" said: > So, in summary, you can get two bonuses from Glyph of Bounty, Item Booster and Bonus Weekend Event, but not all three. That's what I experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemis.6781 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 BTW, I just discovered that the glyph of bounty DOES work on our garden plot within the home instance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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