Please Overhaul Raids.

[Teamkiller.4315]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> No, again, *not* jealousy. Geeze, why do you always have to leap to the most negative impulses?

 

Oh man, I hope you haven't forgotten this exchange:

 

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Teamkiller.4315" " said:

> > Yeah you keep painting these completely ordinary thoughts: pride, envy, etc. that most people have as being "indecent" or "awful".

> You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right?

 

:astonished:

 

I starting to lean over 50% that you're just baiting everyone and you don't actually believe what you're arguing for. I have a lot of trouble believing self awareness can be lacking to this degree.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > No, again, *not* jealousy. Geeze, why do you always have to leap to the most negative impulses?

>

> Oh man, I hope you haven't forgotten this exchange:

>

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"Teamkiller.4315" " said:

> > > Yeah you keep painting these completely ordinary thoughts: pride, envy, etc. that most people have as being "indecent" or "awful".

> > You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right?

>

> :astonished:

>

> I starting to lean over 50% that you're just baiting everyone and you don't actually believe what you're arguing for. I have a lot of trouble believing self awareness can be lacking to this degree.

 

Teamkiller.

 

Seriously.

 

*You* were the one that brought up Envy and Pride.

 

Not me.

 

I just pointed out how silly that was.

 

Please stop randomly conflating two completely different situations as if they are somehow a "gotcha moment" of some sort.

 

It hurts to read.

[Teamkiller.4315]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > No, again, *not* jealousy. Geeze, why do you always have to leap to the most negative impulses?

> >

> > Oh man, I hope you haven't forgotten this exchange:

> >

> > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" " said:

> > > > Yeah you keep painting these completely ordinary thoughts: pride, envy, etc. that most people have as being "indecent" or "awful".

> > > You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right?

> >

> > :astonished:

> >

> > I starting to lean over 50% that you're just baiting everyone and you don't actually believe what you're arguing for. I have a lot of trouble believing self awareness can be lacking to this degree.

>

> Teamkiller.

>

> Seriously.

>

> *You* were the one that brought up Envy and Pride.

>

> Not me.

>

> I just pointed out how silly that was.

>

> Please stop randomly conflating two completely different situations as if they are somehow a "gotcha moment" of some sort.

>

> It hurts to read.

 

I only quoted like one line so I thought you'd know what I was talking about but apparently not? I guess I have to bold it?

 

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> No, again, *not* jealousy. Geeze, **why do you always have to leap to the most negative impulse**s?

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > No, again, *not* jealousy. Geeze, why do you always have to leap to the most negative impulses?

> > >

> > > Oh man, I hope you haven't forgotten this exchange:

> > >

> > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" " said:

> > > > > Yeah you keep painting these completely ordinary thoughts: pride, envy, etc. that most people have as being "indecent" or "awful".

> > > > You realize that you just listed off two of the "seven deadly sins," right?

> > >

> > > :astonished:

> > >

> > > I starting to lean over 50% that you're just baiting everyone and you don't actually believe what you're arguing for. I have a lot of trouble believing self awareness can be lacking to this degree.

> >

> > Teamkiller.

> >

> > Seriously.

> >

> > *You* were the one that brought up Envy and Pride.

> >

> > Not me.

> >

> > I just pointed out how silly that was.

> >

> > Please stop randomly conflating two completely different situations as if they are somehow a "gotcha moment" of some sort.

> >

> > It hurts to read.

>

> I only quoted like one line so I thought you'd know what I was talking about but apparently not? I guess I have to bold it?

>

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > No, again, *not* jealousy. Geeze, **why do you always have to leap to the most negative impulse**s?

 

Yeah, no, I got what you meant, it's just still not relevant. You're comparing apples and hand grenades.

[Ayra Lightbringer.2874]

Sure, if you do not speak English, that complicates things. But not speaking English is your fault, andyou cannot blame anyone else for that. However, there are opportunities to learn raiding for players who do not speak English. Unfortunately I do not speak French or Spanish, however most German/Dutch social guilds I have been in, also raided and were willing to teach. And at least the German gaming community developed some great guilds like raidcommunity.de who will teach you raiding in your native language. Is it easy to get a non-english / non-german speaking trainings guild? Probably not. But there other options. Be it learning it by yourself and pugging (There are plenty of no LI runs, at least for the easy bosses), joining social guilds which speak your language, or making a group with your friends.

You can of course come up with other reasons why you cannot go raiding and need Arenanet to gift you the Raid rewards.

[nia.4725]

> @"Ayra Lightbringer.2874" said:

> Sure, if you do not speak English, that complicates things. But not speaking English is your fault, andyou cannot blame anyone else for that. However, there are opportunities to learn raiding for players who do not speak English. Unfortunately I do not speak French or Spanish, however most German/Dutch social guilds I have been in, also raided and were willing to teach. And at least the German gaming community developed some great guilds like raidcommunity.de who will teach you raiding in your native language. Is it easy to get a non-english / non-german speaking trainings guild? Probably not. But there other options. Be it learning it by yourself and pugging (There are plenty of no LI runs, at least for the easy bosses), joining social guilds which speak your language, or making a group with your friends.

> You can of course come up with other reasons why you cannot go raiding and need Arenanet to gift you the Raid rewards.

 

You're mixing unrelated things.

 

1) It isn't as easy as you think learning a new language. "Your fault"? Do you have some common sense? Do you really think than anybody can start learning a language when and how they want? You must be kidding.

 

2) There are opportunities, yeah. But not plenty. I believe that anybody who really wants to learn will find a way to learn, but that doesn't mean that the accessibility issues aren't there. I'm lucky because when I decided to get into raids I got into a spanish raiding guild where they took me to raids and taught me, but my guild (which was one of the few that actually took newbies in and helped them get started) is now inactive. Currently, there aren't any teaching guilds. New raiders can still pug and try to learn by themselves / join LFG squads, but no one can deny that's a much tougher path to take. I've had guildmates who were afraid of pugging, and actually never pugged, because they didn't know nor understand English. Can I really tell my guildmate, a 50 something year-old, that it's his fault if he doesn't know English? No, I can't. I can say that to my other guildmate who is the same age as me.

 

But this problem can't be solved by Anet, the players have to be the ones who create guilds and help each other.

 

3) Your post is pretty much talking about what I said, and you're confusing me with those who want easy mode. I do not want easy mode and I strongly believe that anyone who really wants to raid, or to get the shinies tied to raid, will make the effort and find a way. These reasons I listed are issues that can make much more difficult to get into raiding, but I don't think they actually prevent anyone from doing so.

[Ayra Lightbringer.2874]

1)Well most people had English in school. How you improve on that foundation lies entirely in your hands. But I understand your point, some people did not have that oppurtunity, maybe because they are from an older generation.

 

2)That is a pity that the Spanish-speaking community does not offer teaching anymore, but an obstacle that can be overcome.

 

3)Glad that we agree on that issue.

[Neutra.6857]

I have an idea that may work as a compromise. PVP and WvW each have armor that can be made into legendary armor. The skin is not unique, so if all you want is the skin you can go with ascended. Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

 

Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

 

Would this compromise work for people?

[Teamkiller.4315]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> Yeah, no,** I got what you meant,** it's just still not relevant. You're comparing apples and hand grenades.

 

Are you sure? Sure doesn't seem like it.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Ayra Lightbringer.2874" said:

> Sure, if you do not speak English, that complicates things. But not speaking English is your fault, andyou cannot blame anyone else for that. However, there are opportunities to learn raiding for players who do not speak English. Unfortunately I do not speak French or Spanish, however most German/Dutch social guilds I have been in, also raided and were willing to teach. And at least the German gaming community developed some great guilds like raidcommunity.de who will teach you raiding in your native language. Is it easy to get a non-english / non-german speaking trainings guild? Probably not. But there other options. Be it learning it by yourself and pugging (There are plenty of no LI runs, at least for the easy bosses), joining social guilds which speak your language, or making a group with your friends.

> You can of course come up with other reasons why you cannot go raiding and need Arenanet to gift you the Raid rewards.

 

Yeah, I have to agres with nia here. Not every school teaches english, especially 3rd world ones, and even then english is the most complicated language to learn as it has been mothered by so many different languages.

[nia.4725]

> @"Neutra.6857" said:

> I have an idea that may work as a compromise. PVP and WvW each have armor that can be made into legendary armor. The skin is not unique, so if all you want is the skin you can go with ascended. Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

>

> Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

>

> Would this compromise work for people?

 

Probably not. Some people here not only want legendary armor, they want the Envoy.

[Neutra.6857]

> @"nia.4725" said:

> > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > I have an idea that may work as a compromise. PVP and WvW each have armor that can be made into legendary armor. The skin is not unique, so if all you want is the skin you can go with ascended. Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

> >

> > Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

> >

> > Would this compromise work for people?

>

> Probably not. Some people here not only want legendary armor, they want the Envoy.

 

This compromise allows people to get legendary armor without doing raids while allowing raids to keep it's unique armor skin, that is a compromise. Just like you need to do teq or triple trouble to get the skins that are associated with those events you need to do raids to get the envoy skin.

[Teamkiller.4315]

> @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > > I have an idea that may work as a compromise. PVP and WvW each have armor that can be made into legendary armor. The skin is not unique, so if all you want is the skin you can go with ascended. Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

> > >

> > > Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

> > >

> > > Would this compromise work for people?

> >

> > Probably not. Some people here not only want legendary armor, they want the Envoy.

>

> This compromise allows people to get legendary armor without doing raids while allowing raids to keep it's unique armor skin, that is a compromise. Just like you need to do teq or triple trouble to get the skins that are associated with those events you need to do raids to get the envoy skin.

 

One of the core points that Ohoni has been pushing for is in fact Envoy Armor. He wants _that specific skin_. Everything else is much lower priority or stuff he doesn't care about at all.

 

Also in order to defend his arguments he has devised a belief system of "not believing in exclusive rewards." Until you manage to get that out of his head, I'm afraid your arguments fall on deaf ears.

[Lunateric.3708]

> @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > > > I have an idea that may work as a compromise. PVP and WvW each have armor that can be made into legendary armor. The skin is not unique, so if all you want is the skin you can go with ascended. Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

> > > >

> > > > Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

> > > >

> > > > Would this compromise work for people?

> > >

> > > Probably not. Some people here not only want legendary armor, they want the Envoy.

> >

> > This compromise allows people to get legendary armor without doing raids while allowing raids to keep it's unique armor skin, that is a compromise. Just like you need to do teq or triple trouble to get the skins that are associated with those events you need to do raids to get the envoy skin.

>

> One of the core points that Ohoni has been pushing for is in fact Envoy Armor. He wants _that specific skin_. Everything else is much lower priority or stuff he doesn't care about at all.

>

> Also in order to defend his arguments he has devised a belief system of "not believing in exclusive rewards." Until you manage to get that out of his head, I'm afraid your arguments fall on deaf ears.

 

He has openly said he wants that skin several times in several posts. Hard to believe people keep feeding him thinking it's the persecution of some higher purpose x)

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> > @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > > > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > > > > I have an idea that may work as a compromise. PVP and WvW each have armor that can be made into legendary armor. The skin is not unique, so if all you want is the skin you can go with ascended. Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

> > > > >

> > > > > Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

> > > > >

> > > > > Would this compromise work for people?

> > > >

> > > > Probably not. Some people here not only want legendary armor, they want the Envoy.

> > >

> > > This compromise allows people to get legendary armor without doing raids while allowing raids to keep it's unique armor skin, that is a compromise. Just like you need to do teq or triple trouble to get the skins that are associated with those events you need to do raids to get the envoy skin.

> >

> > One of the core points that Ohoni has been pushing for is in fact Envoy Armor. He wants _that specific skin_. Everything else is much lower priority or stuff he doesn't care about at all.

> >

> > Also in order to defend his arguments he has devised a belief system of "not believing in exclusive rewards." Until you manage to get that out of his head, I'm afraid your arguments fall on deaf ears.

>

> He has openly said he wants that skin several times in several posts. Hard to believe people keep feeding him thinking it's the persecution of some higher purpose x)

 

Ye he is blowing himself out of the water with that one, Skins are unique to content, that's the way it should be, because it gives us all different goals and objectives and satisfying rewards. Its a pity because its muddied the waters about easy/hard mode raids.

[Raizel.8175]

The discussion with Ohoni probably won't lead to anythin anyway.

 

I still think that raids are fine the way they are and that we only have an accessibility and a community problem. While you can't heal a stupid pseudo-elitist community (and yes, some parts of the raiding-community truly are stupid), you at least can work on the accessibility problem. I can only repeat the suggestions I've already made:

1. More publicity for training-guilds/communities through the implementation of a guild-browser and an improved LFG.

2. More class-balance (especially considering support-classes) so you have softer predefined setups/more variation in what setups you can use.

3. Another skill-indicator-system as alternative to the stupid LI/KP-system.

Other than that, to satisfy the need for another PvE-legendary-armorset, I'd favor a fractal- and PoF-based armor-set.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> > > Time is precious and getting older you notice that more and more. When I was mid 20 I didn't have any problems to invest time in raiding, failing like 3 hours twice a week. Today, I don't have that much time anymore, you have to work, you invest a lot of time with other being and other hobbies. Still you don't want to miss out this content, hence a more accessible mode would be welcomed. I really appreciated the LFR in WoW (and I played since vanilla).

> >

> > Raids in WoW are around 50% of the content after expansions hit and progress the main story. In GW2 not so much. You will always miss out content. Either you have no time or interest.

>

> This is still no argument to miss it out. What is the problem if everyone or at least most people can do this content?

 

You will miss it out in any case. The core of this content is its difficulty.

[Sykper.6583]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> Ye he is blowing himself out of the water with that one, Skins are unique to content, that's the way it should be, because it gives us all different goals and objectives and satisfying rewards. Its a pity because its muddied the waters about easy/hard mode raids.

 

This puts it together nicely. I actually want to encourage an open-world incentive to reach a different kind of Legendary Armor acquisition, but that phrasing around 'Legendary Armor' itself has both 'Skin and Quality' and just 'Quality' tied to it. Provisioner Tokens (despite how I hate daily turn-ins) are effectively an open-world method to craft a must-have component of Legendary Armor. They could tie these Tokens to a theoretical alternative Legendary Armor with a different skin that is rewarded upon different other Open World Tasks.

[Sephylon.4938]

What do you guys think about a stat swappable asc armor in the same vein as caladbolg as the reward for easy mode then? I.e armor that you can trade the current one you have+currency (which you can only get [time gated] from easy mode)to essentially reset it and the runes you put on it.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> What do you guys think about a stat swappable asc armor in the same vein as caladbolg as the reward for easy mode then? I.e armor that you can trade the current one you have+currency (which you can only get [time gated] from easy mode)to essentially reset it and the runes you put on it.

 

stat swapping is legendary in effect, its what motivates me to target the items certainly. turning on its head, what about recategorizing the gear from the top level raiding as 'legendary envoy', which has a unique animation that you cant get elsewhere (which is actually where it is at just now, lets protect that). Now for me that's a healthy compromise - everyone wins a little.

[Sykper.6583]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> What do you guys think about a stat swappable asc armor in the same vein as caladbolg as the reward for easy mode then? I.e armor that you can trade the current one you have+currency (which you can only get [time gated] from easy mode)to essentially reset it and the runes you put on it.

 

As long as it's not the same skin, I don't mind. You could even make it a 'lesser' version that has far less animated pieces, less glorified if you will which actually fits in quite well with how the WvW Weapons were set up, one without effects and one with effects.

[Neutra.6857]

> @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > > > I have an idea that may work as a compromise. PVP and WvW each have armor that can be made into legendary armor. The skin is not unique, so if all you want is the skin you can go with ascended. Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

> > > >

> > > > Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

> > > >

> > > > Would this compromise work for people?

> > >

> > > Probably not. Some people here not only want legendary armor, they want the Envoy.

> >

> > This compromise allows people to get legendary armor without doing raids while allowing raids to keep it's unique armor skin, that is a compromise. Just like you need to do teq or triple trouble to get the skins that are associated with those events you need to do raids to get the envoy skin.

>

> One of the core points that Ohoni has been pushing for is in fact Envoy Armor. He wants _that specific skin_. Everything else is much lower priority or stuff he doesn't care about at all.

>

> Also in order to defend his arguments he has devised a belief system of "not believing in exclusive rewards." Until you manage to get that out of his head, I'm afraid your arguments fall on deaf ears.

 

I wasn't really responding to Ohoni, since we fundamentally differ on how game rewards should work.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Sykper.6583" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > What do you guys think about a stat swappable asc armor in the same vein as caladbolg as the reward for easy mode then? I.e armor that you can trade the current one you have+currency (which you can only get [time gated] from easy mode)to essentially reset it and the runes you put on it.

>

> As long as it's not the same skin, I don't mind. You could even make it a 'lesser' version that has far less animated pieces, less glorified if you will which actually fits in quite well with how the WvW Weapons were set up, one without effects and one with effects.

 

what if it looked like the pre-precursor armor?

 

edit

found the name: experimental envoy

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Neutra.6857" said:

>Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

 

I'm sure some would like this, but honestly I do not give a kitten about having "Legendary armor," what I'm looking for is the Envoy skins themselves. Give me blues and greens with Envoy skins and I'm fine. I'm not even sure which of my characters currently has my *actual* Ascension backpiece, just which ones have the skins on.

 

>Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

 

This seems like a fine unlocking method though.

 

> @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > Yeah, no,** I got what you meant,** it's just still not relevant. You're comparing apples and hand grenades.

>

> Are you sure? Sure doesn't seem like it.

 

Positive, but you'll figure it out.

 

> @"Neutra.6857" said:

> This compromise allows people to get legendary armor without doing raids while allowing raids to keep it's unique armor skin, that is a compromise. Just like you need to do teq or triple trouble to get the skins that are associated with those events you need to do raids to get the envoy skin.

 

Well, the thing with a "compromise" is that each side gets a part of what they like. You're suggesting that skin-less purple armor would be a fair portion of the raid armor, and for some people that might be true, but honestly I have zero interest in that, it's *nothing* of what I'm looking for. Also, it's worth pointing out that Teq and Tripe Trouble don't even have unique skins, they are just generic Ascended skins with some minor added effects to them. If you only have Ascended, you aren't missing out on much there.

 

> @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> He has openly said he wants that skin several times in several posts. Hard to believe people keep feeding him thinking it's the persecution of some higher purpose x)

 

The higher purpose *is* making the skins available to a wider audience. What higher purpose could a game have?

 

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> What do you guys think about a stat swappable asc armor in the same vein as caladbolg as the reward for easy mode then? I.e armor that you can trade the current one you have+currency (which you can only get [time gated] from easy mode)to essentially reset it and the runes you put on it.

 

Completely pointless.

 

Honestly, the game really should just move into a permanently stat-swappable place, like sPvP. Just let players swap their stats around using a drop-down menu. That alone would help make raids more accessible, since if a player showed up with a non-meta build, instead of having to invest a large chunk of gold into shifting their entire inventory, the more experienced player should just go "click "Viper's" in the dropdown," and there they'd be, ready to go.

[Neutra.6857]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> >Make a similar skin for PvE (ascened armor with a new skin that can be promoted to legendary with the same skin). This leaves envoy armor as a raid skin, but allows people who want to get legendary in OW to get legendary.

>

> I'm sure some would like this, but honestly I do not give a kitten about having "Legendary armor," what I'm looking for is the Envoy skins themselves. Give me blues and greens with Envoy skins and I'm fine. I'm not even sure which of my characters currently has my *actual* Ascension backpiece, just which ones have the skins on.

>

> >Getting even the ascended armor version in WvW and PvP has a certain time commitment, so do something similar for OW PVE where there is a limit to how much of a certain currency you can get a week and that currency is needed to make the ascended and legendary armor. That currency can be gotten from open world events with smaller events earning maybe 1 of that currency and larger/longer/harder events earning more (this part needs a bit of work to figure out). Currently little done meta events would give the most of that currency, so for instance...Serpant's Ire, the Junundru Rising events, or the one for portal spiker would give a relatively large amount of that currency (find something similar in HOT maps and core Tyria).

>

> This seems like a fine unlocking method though.

>

> > @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > Yeah, no,** I got what you meant,** it's just still not relevant. You're comparing apples and hand grenades.

> >

> > Are you sure? Sure doesn't seem like it.

>

> Positive, but you'll figure it out.

>

> > @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > This compromise allows people to get legendary armor without doing raids while allowing raids to keep it's unique armor skin, that is a compromise. Just like you need to do teq or triple trouble to get the skins that are associated with those events you need to do raids to get the envoy skin.

>

> Well, the thing with a "compromise" is that each side gets a part of what they like. You're suggesting that skin-less purple armor would be a fair portion of the raid armor, and for some people that might be true, but honestly I have zero interest in that, it's *nothing* of what I'm looking for. Also, it's worth pointing out that Teq and Tripe Trouble don't even have unique skins, they are just generic Ascended skins with some minor added effects to them. If you only have Ascended, you aren't missing out on much there.

>

> > @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> > He has openly said he wants that skin several times in several posts. Hard to believe people keep feeding him thinking it's the persecution of some higher purpose x)

>

> The higher purpose *is* making the skins available to a wider audience. What higher purpose could a game have?

>

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > What do you guys think about a stat swappable asc armor in the same vein as caladbolg as the reward for easy mode then? I.e armor that you can trade the current one you have+currency (which you can only get [time gated] from easy mode)to essentially reset it and the runes you put on it.

>

> Completely pointless.

>

> Honestly, the game really should just move into a permanently stat-swappable place, like sPvP. Just let players swap their stats around using a drop-down menu. That alone would help make raids more accessible, since if a player showed up with a non-meta build, instead of having to invest a large chunk of gold into shifting their entire inventory, the more experienced player should just go "click "Viper's" in the dropdown," and there they'd be, ready to go.

 

Triple Trouble and Teq does have unique skins though since the effects are unique to the skin. There are of course other examples, for instance fractal weapons which require you to do fractals. Or the hero weapons which require you do WvW, or the specialization weapons which require you to do some of the activities in HOT/POF. There are a ton of skins that can only be gotten by doing specific types of activities in this game. I see Envoy armor as the same. The compromise is that you get legendary armor. If you just want the skin then there is no way to compromise, because there is either you get the skin or you do not. I see the envoy skin itself as the raid only thing, hell I personally think legendary armor in PvE should be raid only (since I think the best armor in game should be gated behind somewhat difficult content), but am willing to compromise and say that people in OW can get legendary armor so long as the skin remains raid only.

 

As to what higher purpose could a game have, providing fun content with unique rewards, for the activities being done. Kinda like most games, even single player games do. You know that finger cannon in Dead Space 2, you can only get it by doing the game on the hardest difficulty. Most games link at least some of their rewards to doing difficult activities, or doing the game in hard mode. Envoy armor is one of GW2s examples of this.