If dwarves were playable...

[joneirikb.7506]

Just a note about the Revenant: I think that was a class ANet had planned more or less from the start (as they usually plan story a while in advance, as in years). So it is possible that they knew they where going to add the class since launch. That said, the Revenant is also still an incomplete/un-finished class (most notably so in the water).

 

And as I believe someone else mentioned in another current thread about this: There are differences between making a class and a race. The race requires a good bit more "up front" work (if they're adding city, starter maps, personal story, with VA etc, or a new skeleton to adapt armors for). While a Class have other problems, mostly a continual headache to balance :p

 

So in short, if ANet has already planned in a new race, we will see it. Otherwise, I doubt it. I'm ok with either way.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > @"Moonlit.6421" said:

> > > > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > > Do you people not want additional races or what? Are you arguing against more flavor, fun, and game options just to argue against it?

> > > > >

> > > > > Come on. So far, all I'm seeing from people for there not being another race added is, "it's like, super haaaaaaard tho" as if you speak for ANet.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, yea. It's hard. We don't do complex and intricate things because they're easy. Yea it would take money and time. So maybe not devote resources to more skins and outfits and all that stuff and shift it to adding a new race in an expansion. I would buy it. Wouldn't you guys?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Man you did not read through all the replies did you. Not even my thread and I had the decency to read through most of em. First off I'll start with my personal opinion. I don't think new races are needed, let alone inevitable. Would I buy a new expansion for that? Yes but only to support the game itself, as I do love the game, however I'd be disappointed in the direction it took. I have 42 characters and I adore lore and fashion wars but I would not want this waste of resources.

> > > >

> > > > Now as for what I've seen in this thread there are some incredibly logical arguments for why a new races should not be added. Is it possible? Technically yes. Would it require rewriting/adding things to every portion of the game, creating new starter maps, voice lines, racial abilities, changing the lore, and making sure all current armors could fit them? Yes. That is a huge load, maybe even more than an expac, all for a very small addition to the game. I would much rather get more skins, new maps, and improvements to our current game modes any day, not because I "hate more fun and flavor" but because I see what a waste of resources it would be.

> > >

> > > No i did not read through literally every single reply. I am not required to do so, and you are not a forum moderator. Now that that is out of the way, unless you work at ANet you can't determine in any way whatsoever what is a 'waste of resources' for them. At all. Everything you stated is all your opinion, and that's fine. But for you to assume authority and sit in an ivory tower and cast down your gavel of judgement on what would constitute a 'waste' is utterly subjective and absolutely not up to you. I guess a choya pinata tonic, kite skins and 'costumes' are all 'not a waste' but adding something as amazing as a new race that quite a few people would like, is a waste. Gotcha.

> >

> > Well, that was certainly aggressive...

> >

> > All I did was stating my opinion, and adding what I thought was the most logical reasons for why Anet did or did not want to do that. After all, this kind of thread comes up just about every single week since launch, most of us have seen the arguments back and forth a few hundred times by now. And ANet has never shown any interesting in changing their stance on this (as in "not right now"). So there isn't much left to do but repeat the same old things, or make it into another "Dram thread, what if I got everything I ever wanted in this game" style.

> >

> > > But for you to assume authority and sit in an ivory tower and cast down your gavel of judgement on what would constitute a 'waste' is utterly subjective and absolutely not up to you.

> >

> > I guess I could throw that one right back at you in this case, are you the one that allows us or not to post logical arguments in a discussion thread?

> >

> > > I guess a choya pinata tonic, kite skins and 'costumes' are all 'not a waste' but adding something as amazing as a new race that quite a few people would like, is a waste. Gotcha.

> >

> > Personally I am much more interested in the WvW world restructuring, balancing of classes to make PVP based combat actually fun again (as it hasn't been since before HOT), and stop all the powercreep since HOT release. Alternatively if we're going into wish mode: I'd like to see other additions first, like re-designing general mobs in the game to make PVE combat more engaging and fun, a hard mode for open world, like vanquish mode from gw1. But under no circumstance do I expect or demand ANet to make those, because I realize they're a waste of resources compared to what they could gain from it (economically).

> >

> > :(

>

> Ask yourself this question, then please:

>

> Do you really think adding a new race in a new expansion won't make them a decent respectable profit, versus giving those balance changes you want, for free?

 

Not really. While it might bring in some new/returned players, by now most people already have a set of level 80’s in the professions they play. If ANet makes a new race then they’re going to need to either give each account an 800 gem character slot (loss of money that way) or else wait out all the inevitable complaints and bad publicity from those who want to make a new char of that race and find out they need to pay 800 gems more than the last expansion. If they tack it on to the expansion price then those who have to pay the extra $/€ but who don’t want a new char of the race will complain. Either way (free new char slot or players complaining) is going to reduce their profits.

[Brother.1504]

Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

As to how popular a new race would be and how much money it would bring in, some information from the start of the game indicates that it would be less than advocates think.

 

>[Guild wars 2 writers disappointed in players heavily favoring humans](https://www.polygon.com/2012/10/16/3513902/guild-wars-2-writer-disappointed-in-games-players-heavily-favoring)

>As seen in the lower-left graph in the infographic above — which, from left to right, shows the breakdown for the Norn, Charr, Asura, Sylvari, and Human races — the Humans have more than double the population of just about all of the game's other inhabitants.... He later added that the disparity seen in the graph above has only gotten worse since the infographic was first published

 

 

[2018 statistics from WoW](https://www.statista.com/statistics/276315/distribution-of-world-of-warcraft-characters-by-race/) which shows humans are the most common race played. The more nonhuman a race is, the lower the % is that players make.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> As too how popular a new race would be and how much money it would bring in, some information from the start of the game indicates that it would be less than advocates think.

>

> >[Guild wars 2 writers disappointed in players heavily favoring humans](https://www.polygon.com/2012/10/16/3513902/guild-wars-2-writer-disappointed-in-games-players-heavily-favoring)

> >As seen in the lower-left graph in the infographic above — which, from left to right, shows the breakdown for the Norn, Charr, Asura, Sylvari, and Human races — the Humans have more than double the population of just about all of the game's other inhabitants.... He later added that the disparity seen in the graph above has only gotten worse since the infographic was first published

>

>

> [2018 statistics from WoW](https://www.statista.com/statistics/276315/distribution-of-world-of-warcraft-characters-by-race/) which shows humans are the most common race played.

 

I'd like to see what the graph would look like now in terms of race. I mean, I already expect Humans to be taking the lead but I wanna see how the other races fare.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > As too how popular a new race would be and how much money it would bring in, some information from the start of the game indicates that it would be less than advocates think.

> >

> > >[Guild wars 2 writers disappointed in players heavily favoring humans](https://www.polygon.com/2012/10/16/3513902/guild-wars-2-writer-disappointed-in-games-players-heavily-favoring)

> > >As seen in the lower-left graph in the infographic above — which, from left to right, shows the breakdown for the Norn, Charr, Asura, Sylvari, and Human races — the Humans have more than double the population of just about all of the game's other inhabitants.... He later added that the disparity seen in the graph above has only gotten worse since the infographic was first published

> >

> >

> > [2018 statistics from WoW](https://www.statista.com/statistics/276315/distribution-of-world-of-warcraft-characters-by-race/) which shows humans are the most common race played.

>

> I'd like to see what the graph would look like now in terms of race. I mean, I already expect Humans to be taking the lead but I wanna see how the other races fare.

 

I couldn’t find that information but looking at WoW’s statistics would suggest that the other races haven’t substantially increased by %.

[Heraldusluminare.2946]

Well, if they won't give us more playable races, then at least give us more combat tonics pls. Gendered ones would be nice, lol.

[Yamazuki.6073]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> Do you people not want additional races or what? Are you arguing against more flavor, fun, and game options just to argue against it?

 

People are not supportive of a new race because this isn't an imaginary world where things pop up out of thin air. Are you willing to cover the entire cost of developing a new race?

 

I and many others are indifferent towards a new race, it adds absolutely nothing of value to me, especially since all I'll see are mostly Humans either ways. I have zero interest in paying for a new race, and would not buy any expansion that only offered a new race unless it was something that had a Human body type (Elves). I would have no problem with a new race if the minority demanding a new race paid for the development process themselves, but they won't.

 

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> Those responses preclude the idea that an added race would not make an enormous profit (It would, and most likely by every single GW2 player, and it would also bring other players in who liked the race enough to start playing GW2 - I personally know friends who will not play the game because they do hate the current races and their aesthetic).

 

The unpopularity of non-Human bodies is easy to see, there's plenty of graphs for tons of games that show race popularity; Humans and other similar races like Elves always dominate over the races that are non-human. I would like to know how something unpopular could ever be "an enormous profit", ArenaNet would be lucky if it at a minimum paid for itself.

[Martimus.6027]

> @"Brother.1504" said:

> Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

 

What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> I'm not overly fussed about it. We've seen how playable races can be watered down and lose a lot of their flavour in order to fit the story and World. It's alreadya tragedy to see the Norn in the state they are, I don't think I want to see any other races lose their distinctness.

 

Actually I wouldn't mind if they killed norns off fullstop.. they just hog my jumping puzzle space, they seem, to me at least, to move so slow and jump so awkward, and as far as I'm concerned the worst NPC in the whole of the story thus far would then become nothing more than a bad memory... ASURA is LIFE!!!

[Martimus.6027]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > This game absolutely needs a new playable race. Not to the level of ridiculousness like WoW, but I think two more playable races would help quite a bit. I ONLY like humans and Sylvari. The others are _fugly_. Dwarf would be nice, or a bird race or reptilian one.

>

> None of what you wrote is a reason that the game _needs_ a new playable race. Don't make such a bold claim without statements that actually back it up

 

It is my opinion. That's how opinions work.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> Do you people not want additional races or what? Are you arguing against more flavor, fun, and game options just to argue against it?

>

> Come on. So far, all I'm seeing from people for there not being another race added is, "it's like, super haaaaaaard tho" as if you speak for ANet.

>

> Well, yea. It's hard. We don't do complex and intricate things because they're easy. Yea it would take money and time. So maybe not devote resources to more skins and outfits and all that stuff and shift it to adding a new race in an expansion. I would buy it. Wouldn't you guys?

>

>

 

Its not that people are against the idea...... merely that the arguments in favor of it are superficial at best. Guildwars 2 is, at an almost fundamental level, a Subversion of everything Everquest and WoW solidified as the MMORPG archetype. This includes the Tolkeinesqe tropes on which modern Fantasy is built upon. Everything, no matter how similar to the archetype it is on the surface, has some kind of spin on it to enable a different type of story to be told. Sylvari are both the equal and opposite of High Elves. Where as High Elves are typically among, if not the, oldest race of immortals, who have a society built on aristocraticy traditions that reflect their long lives, and jaded in their racist views of other sentient species, and share an unusual bond with nature and what they deem to be the natural order; the Sylvari are a race of children..... innocent, curious, and highly impressionable. By far the youngest race (the oldest among them not even 30 years of age), they explore their equivalent of "the human condition" as learn and interact with the world around them. Spanning many types of personalities, the only thing all of them have in common is a drive to discover their purpose in their lives, and act upon the notion of what it means. Canoch is bitter toward the world, and sees it filled with corruption and suffering..... but while his actions were seen as criminal, or at least misguided, his motivation is a strong sense of moral justice. The contention between the Nightmare Court and the Pale Tree is a clash of philosophies between Personal Freedom and Duty to Community.

 

In the case of the Dwarves, Guildwars 1 handled them as a "slow burning" elder race... old enough to remember a time before the human civilizations, but not enough memory of it to retain absolute clarity. Their role and lore were not at all fleshed out, and had only only existed to provide a supporting role in the story being told. Their set up and description is pretty bland in terms of Fantasy settings, and trying to fully expand upon what existed would most likely go down the same road many others have tread. Knowing this, Anet made the decision to marginalize them and the elder races, in order to pave way for the younger races to take the spot light for Utopia, the cancelled campaign that many suspected had a story arc based on time travel. Its hard to say when Plans for GW2 and having non-human races as an option was conceived- but it was clear Utopia was meant to lay the lore foundation that was eventually made into Guildwars 2.

 

While much of their fantasy elements are drawn directly from typical tropes, they made a great deal of effort to make each noteworthy in their own right. For the Dwarves, it was taking a battle against an ancient foe that lurked beneath the world, and give them a show down that would end them both in Glorious battle. An idea that plays into everything that defines dwarves as a trope, blended with a Norse-like mythology that is both like and unlike them to various extremes.

 

 

But this raises the question..... if none of that happened, and Dwarves survived until the time of Dragons, how would they fit into political landscape of modern Tyria? They hold far too much clout, and are too few in number (even in GW1 era), to not play a huge defining role in the formation of the Tyrian Pact, and the 5 Nation armies against the dragons. The core of the GW2 story is getting the young races to solve the problems the Elder races couldn't. ... thus an army of dwarves would have to be in the middle of it, marching themselves and their allies to certain doom. Which if you were paying attention, is what makes up a huge part of Nightfall's plot line. Its already been done within this world's lore.... and was arguably the weakest of the 3 campaigns due to its themes of warring gods, where the only resolution that doesn't end in world shattering destruction, was found in the hands of a group of Mortals. Which makes it double ironic that Path of Fire was written on that same theme, and told the story far better.

 

Anyway, this has become a ramble.... So I leave you with this question. What significance, real, world building significance, would having playable Dwarves offer the game, besides the "flavor" or superficial "choice"? How would they make themselves distinct by what they "ARE" and not solely about what they "were". Even the Asura, who full of themselves as to think of other intelligent species as little more then "sentient pests", had grown substantially as a culture in the wake of their exile to the surface. Would it be even half as interesting if Dwarves had met the same fate? Would they just be "less cranky" with their pride shattered, and utterly demoralized in their failure to defend their home?

[Martimus.6027]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > Do you people not want additional races or what? Are you arguing against more flavor, fun, and game options just to argue against it?

> >

> > Come on. So far, all I'm seeing from people for there not being another race added is, "it's like, super haaaaaaard tho" as if you speak for ANet.

> >

> > Well, yea. It's hard. We don't do complex and intricate things because they're easy. Yea it would take money and time. So maybe not devote resources to more skins and outfits and all that stuff and shift it to adding a new race in an expansion. I would buy it. Wouldn't you guys?

> >

> >

>

> Its not that people are against the idea...... merely that the arguments in favor of it are superficial at best. Guildwars 2 is, at an almost fundamental level, a Subversion of everything Everquest and WoW solidified as the MMORPG archetype. This includes the Tolkeinesqe tropes on which modern Fantasy is built upon. Everything, no matter how similar to the archetype it is on the surface, has some kind of spin on it to enable a different type of story to be told. Sylvari are both the equal and opposite of High Elves. Where as High Elves are typically among, if not the, oldest race of immortals, who have a society built on aristocraticy traditions that reflect their long lives, and jaded in their racist views of other sentient species, and share an unusual bond with nature and what they deem to be the natural order; the Sylvari are a race of children..... innocent, curious, and highly impressionable. By far the youngest race (the oldest among them not even 30 years of age), they explore their equivalent of "the human condition" as learn and interact with the world around them. Spanning many types of personalities, the only thing all of them have in common is a drive to discover their purpose in their lives, and act upon the notion of what it means. Canoch is bitter toward the world, and sees it filled with corruption and suffering..... but while his actions were seen as criminal, or at least misguided, his motivation is a strong sense of moral justice. The contention between the Nightmare Court and the Pale Tree is a clash of philosophies between Personal Freedom and Duty to Community.

>

> In the case of the Dwarves, Guildwars 1 handled them as a "slow burning" elder race... old enough to remember a time before the human civilizations, but not enough memory of it to retain absolute clarity. Their role and lore were not at all fleshed out, and had only only existed to provide a supporting role in the story being told. Their set up and description is pretty bland in terms of Fantasy settings, and trying to fully expand upon what existed would most likely go down the same road many others have tread. Knowing this, Anet made the decision to marginalize them and the elder races, in order to pave way for the younger races to take the spot light for Utopia, the cancelled campaign that many suspected had a story arc based on time travel. Its hard to say when Plans for GW2 and having non-human races as an option was conceived- but it was clear Utopia was meant to lay the lore foundation that was eventually made into Guildwars 2.

>

> While much of their fantasy elements are drawn directly from typical tropes, they made a great deal of effort to make each noteworthy in their own right. For the Dwarves, it was taking a battle against an ancient foe that lurked beneath the world, and give them a show down that would end them both in Glorious battle. An idea that plays into everything that defines dwarves as a trope, blended with a Norse-like mythology that is both like and unlike them to various extremes.

>

>

> But this raises the question..... if none of that happened, and Dwarves survived until the time of Dragons, how would they fit into political landscape of modern Tyria? They hold far too much clout, and are too few in number (even in GW1 era), to not play a huge defining role in the formation of the Tyrian Pact, and the 5 Nation armies against the dragons. The core of the GW2 story is getting the young races to solve the problems the Elder races couldn't. ... thus an army of dwarves would have to be in the middle of it, marching themselves and their allies to certain doom. Which if you were paying attention, is what makes up a huge part of Nightfall's plot line. Its already been done within this world's lore.... and was arguably the weakest of the 3 campaigns due to its themes of warring gods, where the only resolution that doesn't end in world shattering destruction, was found in the hands of a group of Mortals. Which makes it double ironic that Path of Fire was written on that same theme, and told the story far better.

>

> Anyway, this has become a ramble.... So I leave you with this question. What significance, real, world building significance, would having playable Dwarves offer the game, besides the "flavor" or superficial "choice"? How would they make themselves distinct by what they "ARE" and not solely about what they "were". Even the Asura, who full of themselves as to think of other intelligent species as little more then "sentient pests", had grown substantially as a culture in the wake of their exile to the surface. Would it be even half as interesting if Dwarves had met the same fate? Would they just be "less cranky" with their pride shattered, and utterly demoralized in their failure to defend their home?

 

Yeeaaaaaaa, umm. I want a new race, period... I'm not a dwarf cheerleader in any way. I would prefer Tengu or an aquatic race.

 

[Brother.1504]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

>

> What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

 

Humans provide the baseline. Because, you know, we are humans irl. Right from physical size to architecture having humans in the game gives us contrast to the more “fantasy” races.

[Ardid.7203]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Did new players rush to play WoW when they saw they could play as a panda?

>

> If existing players were likely to purchase the expansion that contains a new race anyway, any financial gain from it would be neglible.

 

In fact many people did. My girlfriend tried to get into WoW just because they added a panda race. I tried too because I liked the idea of an oriental-styled race. Same with many friends and acquaintances. Of course, WoW is not a very good game for my standards, so I left it in a couple of days. But at least two friends of mine continued playing for a good while.

Of course, I understand what I told is just anecdotal. But I doubt my social circle is that unique.

[DarcShriek.5829]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

>

> What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

 

Not sure if you're aware of this, but humans actually exist. They aren't a fantasy race. Dwarves don't exist, they are a fantasy race. That's a big difference right there.

[Martimus.6027]

> @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

> >

> > What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

>

> Not sure if you're aware of this, but humans actually exist. They aren't a fantasy race. Dwarves don't exist, they are a fantasy race. That's a big difference right there.

 

Dwarves do exist. Never heard of Warwick Davis?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfism

 

It's a bit unkind to deny an entire distinct genotype of people "nonexistent."

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > > > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

> > >

> > > What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

> >

> > Not sure if you're aware of this, but humans actually exist. They aren't a fantasy race. Dwarves don't exist, they are a fantasy race. That's a big difference right there.

>

> Dwarves do exist. Never heard of Warwick Davis?

 

Warwick Davis is a human. He is a short human with a genetic condition called dwarfism but he is not a member of a fantasy race.

[Martimus.6027]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> > > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > > > > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

> > > >

> > > > What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

> > >

> > > Not sure if you're aware of this, but humans actually exist. They aren't a fantasy race. Dwarves don't exist, they are a fantasy race. That's a big difference right there.

> >

> > Dwarves do exist. Never heard of Warwick Davis?

>

> Warwick Davis is a human. He is a short human with a genetic condition called dwarfism but he is not a member of a fantasy race.

 

So my argument was rather ridiculous, eh?

 

If people are concerned about realism being represented in a fantasy MMORPG, then they should get rid of magic.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> > > > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > > > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > > > > > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

> > > > >

> > > > > What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

> > > >

> > > > Not sure if you're aware of this, but humans actually exist. They aren't a fantasy race. Dwarves don't exist, they are a fantasy race. That's a big difference right there.

> > >

> > > Dwarves do exist. Never heard of Warwick Davis?

> >

> > Warwick Davis is a human. He is a short human with a genetic condition called dwarfism but he is not a member of a fantasy race.

>

> So my argument was rather ridiculous, eh?

>

> If people are concerned about realism being represented in a fantasy MMORPG, then they should get rid of magic.

 

I was pointing out that your post about Mr Davis was illogical as he is a human and therefore his existence doesn’t back up your argument about whether or not a race of dwarves should be in game.

[Martimus.6027]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> > > > > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > > > > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > > > > > > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not sure if you're aware of this, but humans actually exist. They aren't a fantasy race. Dwarves don't exist, they are a fantasy race. That's a big difference right there.

> > > >

> > > > Dwarves do exist. Never heard of Warwick Davis?

> > >

> > > Warwick Davis is a human. He is a short human with a genetic condition called dwarfism but he is not a member of a fantasy race.

> >

> > So my argument was rather ridiculous, eh?

> >

> > If people are concerned about realism being represented in a fantasy MMORPG, then they should get rid of magic.

>

> I was pointing out that your post about Mr Davis was illogical as he is a human and therefore his existence doesn’t back up your argument about whether or not a race of dwarves should be in game.

 

I get that. But I am using what you pointed out to make a point to the previous poster that pointing out that Humans actually exist as to why they deserve to be represented in every fantasy game is ludicrous to me.

[DarcShriek.5829]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > > > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

> > >

> > > What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

> >

> > Not sure if you're aware of this, but humans actually exist. They aren't a fantasy race. Dwarves don't exist, they are a fantasy race. That's a big difference right there.

>

> Dwarves do exist. Never heard of Warwick Davis?

>

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfism

>

> It's a bit unkind to deny an entire distinct genotype of people "nonexistent."

 

Are you saying he isn't human?

[Martimus.6027]

> @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> > > > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > > > > @"Brother.1504" said:

> > > > > Dwarves have been done to death in this genre. We need Tengu and some very clever writers to explain how they were here the entire time.

> > > >

> > > > What about humans, then? Humans are in every single MMO. Haven't humans been done to death, too? Though I do agree, Tengu should be a new race.

> > >

> > > Not sure if you're aware of this, but humans actually exist. They aren't a fantasy race. Dwarves don't exist, they are a fantasy race. That's a big difference right there.

> >

> > Dwarves do exist. Never heard of Warwick Davis?

> >

> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfism

> >

> > It's a bit unkind to deny an entire distinct genotype of people "nonexistent."

>

> Are you saying he isn't human?

 

Nope. I'm saying he is a dwarf and dwarves exist. He's a human dwarf. But this is detracting from the fact that whether a race exists in real life has zero bearing on if it should be in a fantasy MMORPG.

[joneirikb.7506]

Regarding humans, since all of us are humans in the real life, it is just easier for many people to relate to them. Removing humans as a race would actually turn of a large amount of players. And as seen by stats over several games, human is the most popular race.

 

People want different things out of a race in a cRPG game. I find that GW2 does a general better job of this than most others. If they removed human, then not so much.

 

(Example personally dislike Asura and Sylvari, like Human and Norn, things Charr is cool but just can't find a character I like for them. And can't think of a single other race that already exist in the game I'd actually want to play.)

[GreyWolf.8670]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Did new players rush to play WoW when they saw they could play as a panda?

>

> If existing players were likely to purchase the expansion that contains a new race anyway, any financial gain from it would be neglible.

 

Some did, yes. Some others fled even though they weren't required to play pandas. :pensive:

As for financial gain? Extra character slot sales...