Why Scourge will always be broken.

[Vague Memory.2817]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > All Anet have to do find out which elites are broken is look at how the class population changes after they add new elite specs. Currently almost every game I play (literally) there are 2 necros and 2 mirages on each team. The fact MM can't compose matches without adding 2 of each means these are the two top played elites specs at the moment. Why? Because they are easy mode, you can jump on them and not knowing how to play the class and reap high reward for little effort. Good for PvP achievements, not so good for PvP.

>

> Easier said than done. Everybody hops on the new stuff for the first few months, and there will always be an adjustment period. It's self-apparent *now* that chrono and scourge are too easy to play for the reward, but that's not easy to figure out shortly after launch.

 

Dude, you're wrong it is Mirage not Chrono. Chrono actually takes some skill to play. Currently about 9 out of 10 Mes in PvP are playing Mirage not Chrono. Fact.

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > All Anet have to do find out which elites are broken is look at how the class population changes after they add new elite specs. Currently almost every game I play (literally) there are 2 necros and 2 mirages on each team. The fact MM can't compose matches without adding 2 of each means these are the two top played elites specs at the moment. Why? Because they are easy mode, you can jump on them and not knowing how to play the class and reap high reward for little effort. Good for PvP achievements, not so good for PvP.

> >

> > Easier said than done. Everybody hops on the new stuff for the first few months, and there will always be an adjustment period. It's self-apparent *now* that chrono and scourge are too easy to play for the reward, but that's not easy to figure out shortly after launch.

>

> Dude, you're wrong it is Mirage not Chrono. Chrono actually takes some skill to play. Currently about 9 out of 10 Mes in PvP are playing Mirage not Chrono. Fact.

 

AHA

CHRONO

SKILL

 

AHA

[Abazigal.3679]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> Just think about this. Scourges have had almost nothing but nerfs since PoF launched and can still dominate.

>

> That means someone actually thought "scourges were gtg" for PvP months ago...

 

That's because of players behaviour, besides bad design. In solo queue, we had turret meta, people kept rushing in. We had DH meta, people kept rushing in. If people couldn't dodge such predictable and " slow ' damage builds, it's not going to work with scourge, which is 3 times more annoying than these builds.

 

Add to it mesmers ( usually one or two) who can easily handle sides, and you get the problem..

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > All Anet have to do find out which elites are broken is look at how the class population changes after they add new elite specs. Currently almost every game I play (literally) there are 2 necros and 2 mirages on each team. The fact MM can't compose matches without adding 2 of each means these are the two top played elites specs at the moment. Why? Because they are easy mode, you can jump on them and not knowing how to play the class and reap high reward for little effort. Good for PvP achievements, not so good for PvP.

> >

> > Easier said than done. Everybody hops on the new stuff for the first few months, and there will always be an adjustment period. It's self-apparent *now* that chrono and scourge are too easy to play for the reward, but that's not easy to figure out shortly after launch.

>

> Dude, you're wrong it is Mirage not Chrono. Chrono actually takes some skill to play. Currently about 9 out of 10 Mes in PvP are playing Mirage not Chrono. Fact.

 

Chrono is actually the worst offender right now, after the phantasm rework. Mirage is still strong, don't get me wrong, but chrono is where you get the crazy phantasm spam from.

 

And no, 9/10 mes's in PvP are not playing mirage. If any of them are using shield (which is most of them), they are playing chrono. I'd say it's more of 40/60 split (mirage/chrono, respectively).

[Vague Memory.2817]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > > All Anet have to do find out which elites are broken is look at how the class population changes after they add new elite specs. Currently almost every game I play (literally) there are 2 necros and 2 mirages on each team. The fact MM can't compose matches without adding 2 of each means these are the two top played elites specs at the moment. Why? Because they are easy mode, you can jump on them and not knowing how to play the class and reap high reward for little effort. Good for PvP achievements, not so good for PvP.

> > >

> > > Easier said than done. Everybody hops on the new stuff for the first few months, and there will always be an adjustment period. It's self-apparent *now* that chrono and scourge are too easy to play for the reward, but that's not easy to figure out shortly after launch.

> >

> > Dude, you're wrong it is Mirage not Chrono. Chrono actually takes some skill to play. Currently about 9 out of 10 Mes in PvP are playing Mirage not Chrono. Fact.

>

> Chrono is actually the worst offender right now, after the phantasm rework. Mirage is still strong, don't get me wrong, but chrono is where you get the crazy phantasm spam from.

>

> And no, 9/10 mes's in PvP are not playing mirage. If any of them are using shield (which is most of them), they are playing chrono. I'd say it's more of 40/60 split (mirage/chrono, respectively).

 

Are you sure you know the difference between Chrono and Mirage, it can be difficult for F2P people to differentiate.

[Dralor.3701]

People mention the turrets and dh. There is obviously a problem when classes have access to such extreme area denial in a game where every match is conquest.

 

Even if you take power level and skill out of the equation, it doesn’t make for a very enjoyable experience.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > > > All Anet have to do find out which elites are broken is look at how the class population changes after they add new elite specs. Currently almost every game I play (literally) there are 2 necros and 2 mirages on each team. The fact MM can't compose matches without adding 2 of each means these are the two top played elites specs at the moment. Why? Because they are easy mode, you can jump on them and not knowing how to play the class and reap high reward for little effort. Good for PvP achievements, not so good for PvP.

> > > >

> > > > Easier said than done. Everybody hops on the new stuff for the first few months, and there will always be an adjustment period. It's self-apparent *now* that chrono and scourge are too easy to play for the reward, but that's not easy to figure out shortly after launch.

> > >

> > > Dude, you're wrong it is Mirage not Chrono. Chrono actually takes some skill to play. Currently about 9 out of 10 Mes in PvP are playing Mirage not Chrono. Fact.

> >

> > Chrono is actually the worst offender right now, after the phantasm rework. Mirage is still strong, don't get me wrong, but chrono is where you get the crazy phantasm spam from.

> >

> > And no, 9/10 mes's in PvP are not playing mirage. If any of them are using shield (which is most of them), they are playing chrono. I'd say it's more of 40/60 split (mirage/chrono, respectively).

>

> Are you sure you know the difference between Chrono and Mirage, it can be difficult for F2P people to differentiate.

 

Really cute there, because I was about to ask you the same thing.

[Curennos.9307]

It's ridiculous that f5 is both offensive and defensive at the same time and can be used while CC'ed. Change it so that the damage slowly ramps up - earlier ticks do less damage, and a decent chunk of the damage comes from the last tick. Same damage, but you're not suddenly forced to 'get away from this massive area, spam cleanse, or just plain die'. Maybe pick a couple of shade abilities that can't be used while CC'ed (f4, maybe f3, leave f2/suggestion below/f5 alone)

 

Then give Scourges a 'Shade Attack' button, up the condi cleanse and cost of f2/reduced CD or something. They have too much crammed into their f-skills, so any utility they bring will also come with damage. Giving them a pure 'shade attack' skill that costs a small amount of life force (compared to the other skills that will fear + attack, cleanse + attack, barrier + attack) and does nothing but cause the shades to attack will balance things out some. Remove the shade-attack part of the other f-skills except the one designated to make the shades attack. Rebalance LF costs appropriately.

 

Change Sand Savant into a different kind of support. Keep the increased targets, but no big shade. Add some additional bonus to picking that trait. I dunno, barriers give buff to allies who have the barrier? Reduced incoming dmg, increased outgoing damage, increased incoming healing/barrier heals ally as it depletes (except if depleted by damage). Something like that. Or heck, going with the new 'shade attack' button, have the GM trait change the attack into a 'pulse out a small amount of barrier and healing'. Note I'm not suggesting giving -all- of these to the shades - pick one. Increased outgoing dmg OR this OR that, etc etc. An offensive/defensive/utility method for GM traits would be a nice way to organize. We have that burn on torment/increased torment dmg trait for damage, the 'gain any boons you rip' as utility, and then the suggestion in this paragraph for defensive.

 

Anet could really do a lot if they messed around with what skills cause the shades to pulse an attack and the timing of that attack. And if they stopped cramming so many damn things into a single skill every time xD

[Crab Fear.1624]

* F2, F3, F4 are instacast

* Sand Savant