Guild Wars 2 needs a team required competitive seasoned based game mode, or HA

[Crab Fear.1624]

**If you want the short and dirty go to the next bold section.**

 

Is it true that an individual's rating is determined by the performance of the team they are on in addition to their own performance?

 

Does the system make the assumption that everyone on the team is going to play to the best of their abilities with the intention of winning?

 

How can a system account for deviants with ulterior motives?

 

Players : A B C D and E are all roughly the same rating of about 1650. This is so we can assume solo q.

 

Players: F G H I and J are all roughly the same rating of about 1650

 

 

Now these 10 players are all competing for the top spot, but they are playing on a team even if it is random.

 

A B C D E || F G H I J the line is to imagine the division of teams.

 

switching the players around, how many possible match ups? [Permutation Calculator](https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/discretemathematics/permutations.php "https://calculatorsoup.com/calculators/discretemathematics/permutations.php")

 

This is just a sample of 10

 

Imagine 1000 or 10,000 players

 

So if you were in every possible combination of team and had the most wins after playing through the gauntlet _perhaps_ you could really cl;aim to be number 1, but what if someone else had as many wins?

 

We don't play through every match possible because it would take lifetimes.

 

This is not a solo game. There is proof of this because when queue up, wether you formed one or not you are placed on a team.

 

_Can you Pro-player in a team game as a solo player?_

 

Look at it this way. You can be a pro tennis player solo, because you can play solo, but how can you be a pro basketball player without a team?

 

Guild Wars 2 is like basketball, not tennis.

 

**Guild Wars 2 needs a seasonal competitive team required game mode.**

 

How will this benefit GW2?

 

* PVP guilds will come back in full force. Believe it or not, socializing is addictive, and the prospect of logging in to face off against another skillful team **at anytime** with your friends and digipals is very enticing. **You cant be sure of this in unranked or tournaments and the reasons have been effectively stated.**

* While balance may be an issue, good teams can remove cheaters, throwers, and match manipulators from their matches because they will be on a team they trust. If someone on the team is a double agent, they will be kicked.

* Even if you rating was based the same way, the team you are on, atleast it is in hands you trust.

* The pvp population will grow, and perhaps even the game. The game mode must be a team only game mode much like HA.

* Pro-teams will come back be reborn possibly

* Streams will be even more entertaining to watch the best teams kick ass, meaning possibly more viewers and more exposure.

 

 

Keep ranked for the solo q , it can be the random arenas, while your team is offline.

 

 

 

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

Somehow this got double posted. This is the correct thread to argue with me on.

[montecristo.1324]

Totally agree with you, we need a 5v5 enviromnet for guilds. It can be a kind of HA or it can be something different I don't know but we need it.

Also for improving cooperation I would suggest that in the soloQ when you win you start the next match with the same team like in old RA in gw1, it is a simple thing that should help people to understand that is a TEAM game and not a single player game.

[Skittledness.5106]

Playing against other skillful teams is the hardest content in Gw2.

Bring a teamq to the game or maybe add never ending automated tournaments? Like the daily ones.

 

Other thing pvp needs

1. Build templates

2. Dev communication and support

 

[Aza.2105]

None of this matters if the game its self isn't competitive. And the game can't be competitive if a character can kill another character in one second. The game will not be competitive as long as their is visual clutter and AI running rampant. The game also won't be competitive if the entire thing revolves around spamming.

 

Fix the nature of the game first then maybe it will grow. Do you know what made HA exciting in gw1? The long tactical matches. In gw2 its the opposite, it will be a short, aoe spamming, non tactical matches. You can add all the modes gw2 is missing from gw1 and the population will still shrink. Why? Because its not the real problem.

 

GW2 suffers from vet-syndrome. Its just a player who has invested a long amount of time into the game and has a very difficult time understanding why a new player isn't as interested in the game as he/she is. All the vet ideas tend revolve around improving his personal experience of the game, instead of ideas that would improve the experience of new players and attract them to come play. One common example is the bursty damage that is currently seen in game. A Vet player will say its fair, get gud, use reflect, dodge and you won't get one shot. A new player will say what happened? Does the game improve? Is high lvl pvp just one shotting? Eventually the new player will leave. Because guess what? There ARE better pvp games out there.

 

If everyone wants to grow the pvp population then that means attracting new players. There won't be too many new players if any who choose gw2 over a moba, overwatch, fighting game or any other competitive game due to gw2 not being a very competitive game in the first place. Think why? Then look at what needs to change.

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"montecristo.1324" said:

> Totally agree with you, we need a 5v5 enviromnet for guilds. It can be a kind of HA or it can be something different I don't know but we need it.

> Also for improving cooperation I would suggest that in the soloQ when you win you start the next match with the same team like in old RA in gw1, it is a simple thing that should help people to understand that is a TEAM game and not a single player game.

 

Yes this continue the match while on a streak is a very good idea. Fill it in the same way if someone drops.

Nice

[Crab Fear.1624]

Receiving an individual rating for team effort is not what made Guild Wars popular. Look at the past, when a team won hoh was it announced as solo player won hall of heroes or was it the guild tag and name? If it’s all about the individual how did gw1 do so well? If it’s all about the individual then what is up with pvp now? Stop trying to be an option to another game. BE GUILD WARS

[apharma.3741]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> None of this matters if the game its self isn't competitive. And the game can't be competitive if a character can kill another character in one second. The game will not be competitive as long as their is visual clutter and AI running rampant. The game also won't be competitive if the entire thing revolves around spamming.

>

> Fix the nature of the game first then maybe it will grow. Do you know what made HA exciting in gw1? The long tactical matches. In gw2 its the opposite, it will be a short, aoe spamming, non tactical matches. You can add all the modes gw2 is missing from gw1 and the population will still shrink. Why? Because its not the real problem.

>

> GW2 suffers from vet-syndrome. Its just a player who has invested a long amount of time into the game and has a very difficult time understanding why a new player isn't as interested in the game as he/she is. All the vet ideas tend revolve around improving his personal experience of the game, instead of ideas that would improve the experience of new players and attract them to come play. One common example is the bursty damage that is currently seen in game. A Vet player will say its fair, get gud, use reflect, dodge and you won't get one shot. A new player will say what happened? Does the game improve? Is high lvl pvp just one shotting? Eventually the new player will leave. Because guess what? There ARE better pvp games out there.

>

> If everyone wants to grow the pvp population then that means attracting new players. There won't be too many new players if any who choose gw2 over a moba, overwatch, fighting game or any other competitive game due to gw2 not being a very competitive game in the first place. Think why? Then look at what needs to change.

>

>

 

I fully agree with this, the game used to have really active PvP even amongst casual players and while one shot builds did exist 3 or 4 years ago they weren’t as rampant but had considerable down sides, normally and you wouldn’t die in less than 1s to anything but a coordinated spike. The whole game has become far too fast for new players to understand what’s going on, damage has reached insane levels and the whole thing has become a spamfiesta. Spam AoE, spam defence, spam boons, spam corrupts, it’s just not as enjoyable.

[Skittledness.5106]

Actually with the new chrono build at the highest tier of the game turns into timed out 15 min games where people sit in stalemate 2v2s and wait for your thief to carry you.

And make the reward for a real based gamemode something attractive.

Sure we have AT's and while they are great they have several flaws

[Kako.1930]

I 100% agree with this. Increasing the rewards for team play would be good too. No pug vs premades and no being forced to play solo/duo. It's a win/win. The only downside would be the queue times, but most people seem to prefer longer queues with better match quality than short queues with lop-sided matches anyways.

[moonstarmac.4603]

I wouldn't mind seeing a dedicated Team Arena and Guild Arena. Granted, I am not in a guild that is active enough for either, but it would definitely benefit the more avid PVP crowd.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

I would love to see Halls of Heroes or a proper 8-man GVG replace the dead stronghold mode. Bring back PvP modes from GW1 that most of us who played enjoyed.

 

Wouldn’t it be great if we had an alternative scourges vomiting on tiny red circles?

 

Another workable solution would be to make secondary objectives (killing beasts, capturing bell, etc.) on maps in conquest stronger and more mentally stimulating than spamming AoE and CC to encourage brain use.

[Thiago.5946]

oioi

i am a solo player, and i think we need a ranked team season ,and this is why , today i tried AT not searious just to see whatsup i use lfg and join in a group

in first match was cool watching the diference of random and a team player focused and know exactly what need to do, we lose ''ofc'' 500-5

i dont think we got so unexperienced pvp player, our team try do the job but fail badly .

solo ranked is to kids ,who just play to farm pips or think someday will be legendary carry or beeing carried with plpls afraid to lose a match couse will lose rank this is sad and toxic .

we need a team season to make some solid and competitive teams ,a first step to got a real team experience .and maybe someday i can make a team and learn how to real pvp.

 

 

from a silver pip farmer

[Skittledness.5106]

We need this pls anet would it be that hard?

[witcher.3197]

You're making too much sense, inb4 ban

[Jacobin.8509]

Been there done that 2+ years ago. Even ESL and prize money didn't work.

 

There are nowhere near enough teams to support a ladder that works so it just ends up with a few vet teams farming the day 1 teams to the point where barely any new teams reach day 2. No one is interested in losing 100% of the time with their only option being to maybe someday git gud.

 

The. Ship. Has. Sailed.

 

There are tons of other competitive games that are built solely to support 5v5 ladder. The truth is that people who want pre-made 5v5 in Gw2 actually just want to farm PUGs but will not admit it.

 

Unless you can demonstrate that there are enough players to support dozens or more teams there is no point in asking for this. Every one of these posts is just a single person wanting 5v5 with no reference to how many teams would actually play. Get a petition or 100+ guild on board otherwise why would Anet waste their time.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Is it true that an individual's rating is determined by the performance of the team they are on in addition to their own performance?

 

In the sense that in each match, that matters, yes. In the sense that you don't get continuous teams, but random selection, no, because over time - multiple matches - the effects of randomly selected teams will even out.

 

> Does the system make the assumption that everyone on the team is going to play to the best of their abilities with the intention of winning?

 

No.

 

> How can a system account for deviants with ulterior motives?

 

By relying on the fact that, statistically, you are **more** likely to get a player with an ulterior motive on the other team than on your team, if randomly assigning players. So, while they may influence any individual match, over time their ability to influence your performance is statistically negligible.

 

I'm sorry to break it to you, but your conspiracy theory is thwarted by simple math, exactly as expected. You have not, in fact, come up with an original plan for attacking the system. You have invented ... the most trivially obvious attack possible on a matchmaking system. The one that a kindergarten school child would invent, if asked to invent one.

 

Hope that helps, have a nice day.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > Is it true that an individual's rating is determined by the performance of the team they are on in addition to their own performance?

>

> In the sense that in each match, that matters, yes. In the sense that you don't get continuous teams, but random selection, no, because over time - multiple matches - the effects of randomly selected teams will even out.

>

> > Does the system make the assumption that everyone on the team is going to play to the best of their abilities with the intention of winning?

>

> No.

>

> > How can a system account for deviants with ulterior motives?

>

> By relying on the fact that, statistically, you are **more** likely to get a player with an ulterior motive on the other team than on your team, if randomly assigning players. So, while they may influence any individual match, over time their ability to influence your performance is statistically negligible.

>

> I'm sorry to break it to you, but your conspiracy theory is thwarted by simple math, exactly as expected. You have not, in fact, come up with an original plan for attacking the system. You have invented ... the most trivially obvious attack possible on a matchmaking system. The one that a kindergarten school child would invent, if asked to invent one.

>

> Hope that helps, have a nice day.

 

Show the math, not just say the word 'math'

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Jacobin.8509" said:

> Been there done that 2+ years ago. Even ESL and prize money didn't work.

>

> There are nowhere near enough teams to support a ladder that works so it just ends up with a few vet teams farming the day 1 teams to the point where barely any new teams reach day 2. No one is interested in losing 100% of the time with their only option being to maybe someday git gud.

>

> The. Ship. Has. Sailed.

>

> There are tons of other competitive games that are built solely to support 5v5 ladder. **The truth is that people who want pre-made 5v5 in Gw2 actually just want to farm PUGs but will not admit it.**

>

> Unless you can demonstrate that there are enough players to support dozens or more teams there is no point in asking for this. Every one of these posts is just a single person wanting 5v5 with no reference to how many teams would actually play. Get a petition or 100+ guild on board otherwise why would Anet waste their time.

 

Your truth.

 

They already have the systems coded.

 

Check out this.

 

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Check this out for those that think teams are not part of the core GW spirit.

>

> [Official Introduction of PvP Leagues](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-pvp-leagues/ "https://guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-pvp-leagues/")

>

> [Official Introduction of PvP Teams](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-pvp-guild-teams/ "https://guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-pvp-guild-teams/")

>

> And a couple picture screens I just took. The last one is the best. The devs took the words out of my mouth.

>

> 

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> 

>

> 

>

>

 

from this thread:

 

[https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33233/5-man-queue-season-11-trial#latest](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33233/5-man-queue-season-11-trial#latest "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33233/5-man-queue-season-11-trial#latest")

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > Is it true that an individual's rating is determined by the performance of the team they are on in addition to their own performance?

>

> In the sense that in each match, that matters, yes. In the sense that you don't get continuous teams, but random selection, no, because over time - multiple matches - the effects of randomly selected teams will even out.

>

> > Does the system make the assumption that everyone on the team is going to play to the best of their abilities with the intention of winning?

>

> No.

>

> > How can a system account for deviants with ulterior motives?

>

> By relying on the fact that, statistically, you are **more** likely to get a player with an ulterior motive on the other team than on your team, if randomly assigning players. So, while they may influence any individual match, over time their ability to influence your performance is statistically negligible.

>

> I'm sorry to break it to you, but your conspiracy theory is thwarted by simple math, exactly as expected. You have not, in fact, come up with an original plan for attacking the system. You have invented ... the most trivially obvious attack possible on a matchmaking system. The one that a kindergarten school child would invent, if asked to invent one.

>

> Hope that helps, have a nice day.

 

The rating system might make more sense if each category had a best, like best offensive player, best defensive player, most kills, most healing.

 

Raitng an individual on team effort as a whole is flawed. It might make you feel good, but it is still wrong.

 

There is no best basketball player; MVP's and GOATs are voted, and subject to debate. I contend that this rate the individual on team efforts (currently) is the same concept. Like i said if there were leaderboards for the top- stats it might make sense, but that would be pathetic.

 

Realistically there should not be an individual leaderboard. Ranked should have been a team only game mode from the start.

 

Despite the basement dwellers' claims that it's hard to form a team, it is not, and GW1 proved that.

 

 

[Jacobin.8509]

Yes pre-made vs pre-made has existed since day 1 and still does in normal mode and servers. There is just no point in supporting a ladder.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Jacobin.8509" said:

> Yes pre-made vs pre-made has existed since day 1 and still does in normal mode and servers. There is just no point in supporting a ladder.

 

well on the thread i linked(a poll) 89 people voted yes, and 16 voted maybe. so about 105 that we know that would be willing, even if under certain conditions, to play on a team.

let's just assume that these voters don't have friends who didnt vote (obviously not true) and that we had to form teams from this pool. 105/5 = 21 teams

 

if the seasons were short, there is plenty of reason to support it for these teams. the nfl, nba, nhl only have 30-32 teams.

 

that is assuming no one else would do it, in a game that supposedly has ~3 million players.

 

if it can't be on demand, it could be designed to allow this hypothetical set of teams to schedule their games.

 

Okay that was my reply to you, this next bit is for everyone:

 

**Elite game content is team required, team based.**

**Why should “ranked”, probably what could be considered the elite PVP content not be team required?**

 

**Why not make raids solo or duo q? Then the system can group of groups of 1 and 2 to form the needed 10. Hopefully they got what it takes.**

 

**Imagine that.**

 

P.S.

Any other response from me will be tomorrow. I am drinking now. Logic box has clocked out, among other important skills.

 

[Skittledness.5106]

Unlimited upvotes foe this thread.

Any team content is appreciated

[BMW.2951]

With the poor balance they might as well pull the plug on SPvP and focus on WvW.