Linken.6345 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Alehin.3746" said: > >muh privacy > Just have "chill run" or "non meta" in the tittle, "DPS meter people" wont join you. Sounds to me the OP dont want to put up lfg and instead join any of the ones already listed, cant seem to find any none meta or chill runs so want everyone to be open to them without any hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haleydawn.3764 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Can this thread be closed already, the circling is dizzying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayra.7405 Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > Can this thread be closed already, the circling is dizzying! Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Is it spying for a person to see someone's posts in a forum thread they have chosen to join? is it spying for a person to hear someone speak in a discord channel they have chosen to join? if the answer is no then it is not spying for a person to see the DPS of someone who has chosen to join a party in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to, if they have the right to see my DPS then i have the right to see if they use a DPS meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. > > i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. > i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. > however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to, if they have the right to see my DPS then i have the right to see if they use a DPS meter. You do not get to decide what your supposed rights are when on someone else's property. Your dps is public information when you are in a group according to anet. What software someone else is running on their computer has not been so designated by anet...yet. it seems unlikely that this will change unless anet adds an integral dps program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > > > > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. > > > > i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. > > i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. > > however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to, if they have the right to see my DPS then i have the right to see if they use a DPS meter. > > You do not get to decide what your supposed rights are when on someone else's property. Your dps is public information when you are in a group according to anet. What software someone else is running on their computer has not been so designated by anet...yet. it seems unlikely that this will change unless anet adds an integral dps program. a DPS meter is a public knowledge the moment you use it, i have all the right to know that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > > > > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > > > > > > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. > > > > > > i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. > > > i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. > > > however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to, if they have the right to see my DPS then i have the right to see if they use a DPS meter. > > > > You do not get to decide what your supposed rights are when on someone else's property. Your dps is public information when you are in a group according to anet. What software someone else is running on their computer has not been so designated by anet...yet. it seems unlikely that this will change unless anet adds an integral dps program. > > a DPS meter is a public knowledge the moment you use it, i have all the right to know that fact. And who are you to decide that? You don't have the right to know what programs I am using when playing GW2. Only Arenanet does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > > > > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > > > > > > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. > > > > > > i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. > > > i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. > > > however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to, if they have the right to see my DPS then i have the right to see if they use a DPS meter. > > > > You do not get to decide what your supposed rights are when on someone else's property. Your dps is public information when you are in a group according to anet. What software someone else is running on their computer has not been so designated by anet...yet. it seems unlikely that this will change unless anet adds an integral dps program. > > a DPS meter is a public knowledge the moment you use it, i have all the right to know that fact. No not even in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbitalButt.5708 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > > > > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > > > > > > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. > > > > > > i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. > > > i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. > > > however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to, if they have the right to see my DPS then i have the right to see if they use a DPS meter. > > > > You do not get to decide what your supposed rights are when on someone else's property. Your dps is public information when you are in a group according to anet. What software someone else is running on their computer has not been so designated by anet...yet. it seems unlikely that this will change unless anet adds an integral dps program. > > a DPS meter is a public knowledge the moment you use it, i have all the right to know that fact. No it isn't and no you don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. > > i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. > i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. > however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to, if they have the right to see my DPS then i have the right to see if they use a DPS meter. Nope. You have no such right. But thanks for playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 You will never achieve agreement on forums about this as it's not possible to expect consensus with this community. Unfortunately ArenaNet will never join dps meter implementation and policy discussions. What you can do however is proving arenanet the level of unfair toxicity their flawed policy causes in game. If you start your group and your LFG says nothing about dps meters and you are being attacked by players who joined you using these tools, make screenshots and recordings and send reports to ArenaNet. Use targeted harassment option. Don't use in-game report function, it's useless. Submit support tickets, provide screenshots and videos, show ArenaNet what they encourage on daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > > > > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > > > > > > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. > > > > > > i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. > > > i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. > > > however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to, if they have the right to see my DPS then i have the right to see if they use a DPS meter. > > > > You do not get to decide what your supposed rights are when on someone else's property. Your dps is public information when you are in a group according to anet. What software someone else is running on their computer has not been so designated by anet...yet. it seems unlikely that this will change unless anet adds an integral dps program. > > a DPS meter is a public knowledge the moment you use it, i have all the right to know that fact. Nope. You do not get to assign yourself rights on someone else's property. Want that ability? Buy the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > You will never achieve agreement on forums about this as it's not possible to expect consensus with this community. Unfortunately ArenaNet will never join dps meter implementation and policy discussions. What you can do however is proving arenanet the level of unfair toxicity their flawed policy causes in game. If you start your group and your LFG says nothing about dps meters and you are being attacked by players who joined you using these tools, make screenshots and recordings and send reports to ArenaNet. Use targeted harassment option. Don't use in-game report function, it's useless. Submit support tickets, provide screenshots and videos, show ArenaNet what they encourage on daily basis. Anet has already participated in the discussion. They formulated policy, and announced it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > You will never achieve agreement on forums about this as it's not possible to expect consensus with this community. Unfortunately ArenaNet will never join dps meter implementation and policy discussions. What you can do however is proving arenanet the level of unfair toxicity their flawed policy causes in game. If you start your group and your LFG says nothing about dps meters and you are being attacked by players who joined you using these tools, make screenshots and recordings and send reports to ArenaNet. Use targeted harassment option. Don't use in-game report function, it's useless. Submit support tickets, provide screenshots and videos, show ArenaNet what they encourage on daily basis. > > Anet has already participated in the discussion. They formulated policy, and announced it as well. They formulated the policy, yes. But they never discuss it with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > You will never achieve agreement on forums about this as it's not possible to expect consensus with this community. Unfortunately ArenaNet will never join dps meter implementation and policy discussions. What you can do however is proving arenanet the level of unfair toxicity their flawed policy causes in game. If you start your group and your LFG says nothing about dps meters and you are being attacked by players who joined you using these tools, make screenshots and recordings and send reports to ArenaNet. Use targeted harassment option. Don't use in-game report function, it's useless. Submit support tickets, provide screenshots and videos, show ArenaNet what they encourage on daily basis. But if that happens, what's the real problem there? Who's to blame? Do you really think the cause of the harassment is the DPS meter? No, the problem is the bully and the bully should get banned. DPS meters are just a tool and those who abuse the tool or use it to have an unacceptable behavior should get punished. But DPS is not at fault and neither those who use the meter and never attack anyone are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > You will never achieve agreement on forums about this as it's not possible to expect consensus with this community. Unfortunately ArenaNet will never join dps meter implementation and policy discussions. What you can do however is proving arenanet the level of unfair toxicity their flawed policy causes in game. If you start your group and your LFG says nothing about dps meters and you are being attacked by players who joined you using these tools, make screenshots and recordings and send reports to ArenaNet. Use targeted harassment option. Don't use in-game report function, it's useless. Submit support tickets, provide screenshots and videos, show ArenaNet what they encourage on daily basis. > > > > Anet has already participated in the discussion. They formulated policy, and announced it as well. > > They formulated the policy, yes. But they never discuss it with anyone. They did discuss it internally and during their AMA where they announced it their policy sorry but those pesky facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > You will never achieve agreement on forums about this as it's not possible to expect consensus with this community. Unfortunately ArenaNet will never join dps meter implementation and policy discussions. What you can do however is proving arenanet the level of unfair toxicity their flawed policy causes in game. If you start your group and your LFG says nothing about dps meters and you are being attacked by players who joined you using these tools, make screenshots and recordings and send reports to ArenaNet. Use targeted harassment option. Don't use in-game report function, it's useless. Submit support tickets, provide screenshots and videos, show ArenaNet what they encourage on daily basis. Ofcourse you have stated in your lfg no dps meters allowed. If you havent you cant complain of someone use it and point out that why is 2 out of 3 supposed dps competing with the heal druid in damage. Edit Pointing that out might not be harassment or bullying depending on how the person phrase it tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Noroku.5342 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Just a quick mention OP... not sure if someone else said it, but 10 pages.. tldr... You're thinking people with meters invades your privacy... did you forget that Anet invaded the privacy of everyone just before the ban wave?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 > @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said: > Just a quick mention OP... not sure if someone else said it, but 10 pages.. tldr... > > You're thinking people with meters invades your privacy... did you forget that Anet invaded the privacy of everyone just before the ban wave?! Sigh....... No they didn't. Your privacy cannot be invaded if you give consent as everyone did by accepting the user agreement. So let's not start this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy Lu.3865 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I follow this thread since the beginning, thumbing up some posts here and there... With time passing and posts adding, considering also earlier threads we had in this forum, it seems to me that the opinion about DPS meter is depending a lot on the player's activities and way of playing. I explain what I mean based on my own experience: At earlier times, when I was doing mainly PvE, sporadic casual WvW, no raiding, I was 100% against DPS meter. Reason had nothing to do with data sharing though. For me it was with the "toxic" side of it. I didn't know what does exactly a DPS meter, but I was witnessing regularly the rude behavior of some players using those, and due to that, my first impression of DPS meter was a very negative one. Muuuuuuuuuuuuch later, I changed my way to play. I joined a guild doing serious WvW and I started raiding. I was then rapidly confronted to a problem: I wanted to be a solid contributor, but I had no real way to check what are my performances. So, I started to look closer into what is a DPS meter and realized how useful it is to check own DPS and compare to others playing same class to see if doing well (or not), and also to see what class is more active when, helping to timely cast... Wow! Not so bad then... :o And that's when I changed my mind to: DPS meters are supportive tools. I truly believe - at least it is my experience - that as soon as doing WvW and raid as a serious activities, being member of a core team, with training for learning and motivation to improve, DPS meters are helpful. But in that case, it's a global team agreement so there is no trouble. On the other hand, I still do not agree with players who have a toxic/rude behaviour toward others, due to the use of DPS meters. All in all, I think that until there is an official solution available, this is with each player to adapt own behaviour. Personally, if I feel like playing free (class, build, whatever I want), and don't want to be judged/measured, I then just take care not to join a team asking for specific players, because I know I will not match. I rather search for a more "casual" team. And if I do not find one, I then open one myself, specifying "all welcome". Usually, it does not need long. Edited for an add: Sorry, I was interrupted while writing this and in the meantime, the thread kept going. I did not see it when posted and now my post has spawn far from where I was in the thread when I wrote it. That's why it does not catch well with what is being said above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynn.1659 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 TLDR **What did we learn so far?** 1. Dps meters invade your privacy by not invading your privacy. 2. Dps is a property, and you should buy company to see it. 3. Dps meters magically hack anet servers to find out where you live, so EU law can stop them. 4. People "didn't" get kicked before for ap, playing wrong class and any other number of arbitrary reasons. It's all dps meter fault. 5. Dps meters "hack" computers of other players by not hacking anything and just reading info that is in game memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > > > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > > > > > > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. > > > > > > i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" > > > > You'll likely have to get used to specifying which type of player you are. ...which you could be doing right now. No flag necessary. > > i have that set for about 20 years now, how i wanna play. > i play my build the way i like it, if the meta is not ready for that then that's not my problem. > however, if i want to play a content without judgemental elitists eyes i darn well want to know who to avoid and who not to You need not worry. No, really, you don't. When you come with a snowflake build, the elitists will spot you. We don't want to play with you either. It is our mutual interest to recognize one another, so we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > You will never achieve agreement on forums about this as it's not possible to expect consensus with this community. Unfortunately ArenaNet will never join dps meter implementation and policy discussions. What you can do however is proving arenanet the level of unfair toxicity their flawed policy causes in game. If you start your group and your LFG says nothing about dps meters and you are being attacked by players who joined you using these tools, make screenshots and recordings and send reports to ArenaNet. Use targeted harassment option. Don't use in-game report function, it's useless. Submit support tickets, provide screenshots and videos, show ArenaNet what they encourage on daily basis. > > Ofcourse you have stated in your lfg no dps meters allowed. > If you havent you cant complain of someone use it and point out that why is 2 out of 3 supposed dps competing with the heal druid in damage. > Edit > Pointing that out might not be harassment or bullying depending on how the person phrase it tho. DPs meter is not part of the game and I am not obligated to assume anyone is using it until it's properly announced. Combat data is public, yes, but ArcDPS and its creator are not parts of ArenaNet and the contract between Anet and customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin.6921 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said: > > Just a quick mention OP... not sure if someone else said it, but 10 pages.. tldr... > > > > You're thinking people with meters invades your privacy... did you forget that Anet invaded the privacy of everyone just before the ban wave?! > > Sigh....... > > No they didn't. You're privacy cannot be invaded if you give consent as everyone did by accepting the user agreement. > So let's not start this again. Its a bit irrelevant to the thread (which i think it is utter BS) but that is not entirely true. A user agreement is not a legally binding document. If a law is been broken by it the company is still liable and your privacy can be invaded even if you have consented, if the data collected are not justified by the collector. Please this kind of misunderstanding is dangerous to spread. Whether the monitoring software broke the law or not depends on what it did. If the monitoring software did sufficient filtering of data (sending only the relevant info to Anet servers eg if you used an non-compliant application), had good encryption and most processing was done client-side it is fine even with the new GDPR. If on the other hand, the encryption was lacking (which it might have been from what it been said) and if it sent a list of all processes running alongside the game (even if irrelevant to the game) then it would be an invasion of privacy and it would break the GDPR even if you have given consent in the user agreement. Data collection can only be justified if it is essential for the business and only if you make a strong case that the collection you are doing is the minimum possible for the function you would be using it. In other words: If it can be done with **less ** with the **same ** result you are breaking the law no matter the ToS or the UA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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