base game scaling

Tharus.7249 · May 30, 2018

All I have are max characters which i'm sure is most people by now and most of them haven't explored most of the world. I can't I just can't when nothing is fun to play because every single character is too powerful. Does everybody really enjoy being super powerful in most zones. The game has already lost it's teeth for new characters which is sad. Now a few of my friends are starting and I want to join them, but after an hour I realized just my presence ruins the game. If it was my choice I would drastically reduce the power level of characters when entering lower level area's or at least add a toggle that selects how much you want your character scaled down. Currently my only option is to buy a character slot, start somebody new, and begin another 1/5th completed world discovery journey just to play with friends.

Ok did testing and came to the conclusion starting zones are just too easy. Now I think if we could add a system where you can group up with your friend and chose to scale to their level. That way if he is say a 12 and walked into a area with lvl 14 enemies it gets much harder and you would stay level 12 with him instead of scaling up and making the fight too easy. Or at the very least scale players down farther instead of being 2 levels higher than most enemy's around you.

Ojimaru.8970 · May 30, 2018

Or you could store all your max DPS gear in the bank and go have fun. =)

Tharus.7249 · May 30, 2018

you want me to what buy a full set of white or blue gear, waste charges on it's appearance so it doesn't look like trash, and do that for every single character just so a majority of the game is fun again. Isn't that a sign of a bad difficulty curve for any game if somebody says the solution is don't equip items. lol That would work but now I already have extra gear with different stats taking many slots so I bump into a annoying inventory problem just to fix the game

Inculpatus cedo.9234 · May 30, 2018

You could just put all your Trinkets in the bank; that might make a difference. Or change your traits or disable them. Lots of choices, really.

Julischka Bean.7491 · May 30, 2018

Yesterday I was doing map completion in Wayfarer Foothills on a level 80 an doing my best to tone down my firepower. While playing I noticed a player who was half dressed. She was wearing a top but panties on the bottom. She popped up several times in different parts of Wayfarer. Grin. The last time I saw her she was mounted on a Jackal or it could of been a Griffon...no it was a Jackel. That, and the lack of pants, told me she was, like me, tip-toeing through the lower level...she did it better :)

So, you could do something like that if it is too easy. Or do not use trinkets. Or get drunk and play...

Seriously, be glad you are such a good player and have such good gear, that the lower levels are miserably easy for you.

Lisa-salutes her glass of sweet tea to you and hopes you find a solution.

Nemo.5609 · May 30, 2018

Low-quality weapons and no trinkets should be enough of a stat-drop. Armor pieces don't really carry that much stats in comparison.

Solvar.7953 · May 31, 2018

Other thing is just don't play carefully. If you aggro half a dozen creatures + a veteran or 2, you may find out that you are no longer overpowered.

Tharus.7249 · May 31, 2018

Ok I took peoples advice on certain things. I went back to multiple zones with no accessories, no rings, no back piece, no necklace, and since I was on my flamethrower engineer I unequipped both pistols as well.

First thing I did was run into barradin's vaults with the 3 veteran ghosts and 5 adds each. Rounded them all up and killed all 15 or so enemies in 2 seconds staying basically at full hp. The last guy spawned in his room with what seemed like 20 ghosts as another low level new player joined but I killed them all so fast idk if he got to hit anything.

Next I ran to the wall up north and fought a champion ghost and his several adds that kept coming. He was able to move my health bar slightly but I ended up leaving this zone never having to use my heal skill or elite skill.

My take away from that is even without gear either my spec or armor still breaks the game in the lowest level zones. It was so bad I skipped straight to a 50 plus zone the Iron Marches.

Ran around looking for enemies. Grabbed 2 veteran flame legion flame thrower guys and at least 10 other flame legion solders during some protect mission that was already going. I used a few other skills thinking it would be harder instead of just auto attacking. I was wrong! They felt like maybe they lasted twice as long and the veterans lasting maybe another 2x on top of the normal mobs. I did lose 15% of my hp but didn't need to use my heal skill or elite skill.

Decided to step it up again and went to Frostgorge next and grabbed as many level 68 dredge as I could during a destroy the mortors mission on the far west. Easily killed all 15 didn't need to use my heal skill or elite skill but it felt more dangerous.

Just to check I went to Verdant brink gathered a group of 10 guys up during an event and immediately thought yeah I should equip my gear.

Even with only armor on my body and nothing else it took till Frostgorge Sound before I felt "Yeah this is ok. I would play this mmo" everything else before that felt like it was broken. idk either my armor still breaks it or the simple stacking might from the flamethrower is too much... which shouldn't be the case you don't have to play long to get stacking might skills. I guess i'll go back and try again with no armor, a bad spec, no useful skills, no weapons, and no jewelry to see if anything changes.

starlinvf.1358 · May 31, 2018

> @"Tharus.7249" said:

> All I have are max characters which i'm sure is most people by now and most of them haven't explored most of the world. I can't I just can't when nothing is fun to play because every single character is too powerful. Does everybody really enjoy being super powerful in most zones. The game has already lost it's teeth for new characters which is sad. Now a few of my friends are starting and I want to join them, but after an hour I realized just my presence ruins the game. If it was my choice I would drastically reduce the power level of characters when entering lower level area's or at least add a toggle that selects how much you want your character scaled down. Currently my only option is to buy a character slot, start somebody new, and begin another 1/5th completed world discovery journey just to play with friends.

Put your Bug Boy Role playing pants on, and pretend you're Saitama. Wandering the world, searching for an enemy that doen't die in one attack....

Kalendraf.9521 · May 31, 2018

You could try the naked toon challenge. The basic rule is the character can't equip any gear - no trinkets, no armor, no weapons. A variation of it allows weapons since for some classes it will be really hard to kill anything without a weapon equipped. I've tried it before with a brand new character with no gear. By doing city maps and portions of the starter maps I reached about 15th level or so before things started to get rather challenging to continue. BTW, this actually makes environmental weapons you find on maps rather useful. With an existing level 80 toon, it should be significantly easier to press through starter and mid-level maps, but the higher ones might be a challenge.

Laila Lightness.8742 · May 31, 2018

> @"Tharus.7249" said:

> > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > Maybe spend some time in level 80 zones on your level 80 characters?

>

> I guess I would also say what's the point of having leveling scaling in the game

To mention core game is actelly very easy even an new alt killa most stuff in 2seconds

joneirikb.7506 · May 31, 2018

Core game is too easy in general, and especially the starting zones have been made even easier since launch.

What I do is basically take of different parts of the character, I have tried multiple different ones, and often in combinations until I find something that works for me:

* No armor (this actually gets hard)

* No weapon (this just got boring, gave up at level 50 leveling new toon)

* No Trinkets (since 50% of your stats is from your trinkets)

* Only white gear (with or without trinkets)

* Only racial skills + 25% move signet (works best for leveling)

* Only try traits/skills/weapons I'm not familiar with (works best on leveling)

I played a Thief to level 50 with no weapon, before I just gave up out of boredom. Repeating the same combo of traps, steal sap with poison etc over and over.

I restarted the same Thief and this time with no armor, and at around level 50 again, you die pretty fast if you get hit. Been a while since I've played that toon now, but it's one of the hardest ones I've tried so far. This will obviously be easier with a full 80, but try taking the armor off and see how it will play.

Alternatively just taking of the chest piece, to remove the biggest part of armor, stats, and breaking your runeset.

---

On the other hand, I do wish the scaling made us "weaker", to make older content more interesting. But at this point I think the problem is that ANet has weakened a lot of areas, thus making the current scaling under-tuned. That, and core mobs are just dull and easy.

Don't think they will ever do anything about it. And I honestly can't say if that is a good or a bad thing, there are many players that really enjoy how easy the core tyria is, and would get upset if it got harder. And it is easier for us to "restrict" ourselves than the opposite would be for them. But I personally still want a big upgrade on enemy AI and builds in entire Core Tyria :p

Tharus.7249 · May 31, 2018

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Tharus.7249" said:

> > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > Maybe spend some time in level 80 zones on your level 80 characters?

> >

> > I guess I would also say what's the point of having leveling scaling in the game

>

> To mention core game is actelly very easy even an new alt killa most stuff in 2seconds

I haven't leveled a guy in forever. Last guy was before champion trains and they started removing champions out of the lower level zones. I don't remember it being that easy or maybe that was just because you can easily enter higher level area's. Well shit I guess I have a problem with the entire base game difficulty and not scaling.

Elden Arnaas.4870 · June 1, 2018

Well, you're really not doing anything to help your issues. They are:

World completion is boring, everything dies too fast.

and

Whenever I try to help friends who are new to the game, it isn't fun.

re: World completion -

After your first couple of characters, world completion is just something you get through. But you can do things to change it up and maybe make it more entertaining. You don't even have to fight.

You can try to get through it as quickly as possible.

Try to use only stealth/avoidance and not ever fight.

Use only movement skills to out-maneuver the enemy.

Fight but use only CC, so nothing ever has to die.

If you're half as good as you say you are, any of these (and more) should be viable.

re: Helping my friends who are new to the game - Put on a healing/support build and actually *help* them. Show them how to dodge. Show them that you can use buffs to support NPC's and other players. Teach them about buffs and combos.(*show* them how to do these) Explain tells, tactics, break bars, etc... Helping new players is one of the most rewarding things you can do in this game. If it isn't, then you're not doing it right.

FyzE.3472 · June 1, 2018

Get legend in pvp playing revenant

Kolache.3964 · June 1, 2018

Seems like something that would be fairly fixable? I mean couldn't they just adjust the scaling to increase difficulty in lower level zones for level 80 players? :)

starlinvf.1358 · June 1, 2018

As far as world complete goes, too many people make the mistake of trying to do it (and a lot of other things in the game) in a binge storm. If all the long term tasks are done on a short term schedule, then it won't be anything but frustrating due to sheer fixation of the fact you want to go faster.

I've found it much more manageable to handle World Complete as a distraction/adventure, but never out of deliberate reward chasing. Every day I do the daily routine of PSNA, the daily achievements, Dry Top for Quartz, and an LS3 gathering run if I'm low on something. The whole thing is a 2 hour affair.... and on work days thats all I have time to do. Then on the weekend I do WvW for the weekly skirmish track, since thats the only time most servers will put up a legit effort into fighting. The Fights are to accumulate WXP, since theres at least enough people to maintain a proper K-train if the zerg clashes are too unbalanced. Trying to do that outside of that window is a massive pain, because tower and keep captures are the biggest sources of WvW, and can be consistent enough to take advantage of a booster.

Once thats out of the way, I usually have 2 days of general free time to back fill my crafting supplies. I've spent the last 2 weeks doing Draconis Mons for Warfarers Henge just to get the extra Orchid nodes so I can produce Magnanimous consumables and stock pile a supply for trinkets. All of this in preparation to regear half my characters for WvW and Raids..... only to realize half of them switched to bountiful and furious.

At any rate..... when I have nothing planned, I make it a point to go wandering a Core map about once a week for basic gathering (ore, wood, herbs, etcs), and its in the times I put a half effort into knocking out world complete. Its not hard either, since most of my attention is following a chain of nodes and tagging events as I pass through an area. This knocks out the vast majority POIs, Vistas and Hearts; broken up by the occasional World boss or Bloodstone spawn. I could make a lot more farming LS maps.... but I'm so sick of them at this point, as are the HOT maps because of a constant need to replenish Ley crystals. I don't even bother with Octovine unless I'm already in the region, and following the K-Train.

Aside from the fact that I'm one of "those people" who actually like the scenery of the Core maps, I've learned a long time ago that the majority of "end game" stuff is purposefully designed to be massive time/gold sinks...... because the player base just endlessly demands "goals" faster then the Devs can produce proper rewards for. So we're stuck in this cycle of stupidity where intermediate rewards are considered worthless, end goals too valuable to QOL, and thus need to be obtained quickly to actually benefit, and binge farming having the double the burn out rate because things aren't metered properly for stable progress. I hate time gates, but I can't deny that we need them given how fast people burn through content, and then immediately demand twice as much in half the time. I remember the build up to Siren's landing, and how that map flared out in a little over 2 weeks..... which is notable, because it was also the most generous with its currency.

Thus I've found the only way to keep my sanity, is to be very careful about where I spend my time, and try to stock pile mats BEFORE I have a demand for them. That ability to more freely rotate through content, and accumulate over time is ultimately the only reason I still play anything outside of WvW. And I've also kind of stopped caring about LS4 maps..... theres too much contention between the need to make things less brain dead, yet somehow better for braindead farming.

JDub.1530 · June 1, 2018

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> As far as world complete goes, too many people make the mistake of trying to do it (and a lot of other things in the game) in a binge storm. If all the long term tasks are done on a short term schedule, then it won't be anything but frustrating due to sheer fixation of the fact you want to go faster.

So true. My guild used to run a World Boss Train, so often I would take characters and just run around collecting the WPs for that, and just do map complete as I pleased. Grabbing hearts, POIs, vistas along the way, not binging the whole map. If you ever do go back and finish the map, there's suddenly much less to do. Heck, I think sometimes I even left hearts partially completed, which means much less to do when you swing by again.

mindcircus.1506 · June 1, 2018

> @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> Maybe spend some time in level 80 zones on your level 80 characters?

This works in a game that doesn't incent players at the cap to complete lowbie zones.

GW2 is not one of those games.

Tharus.7249 · June 1, 2018

> @"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:

> Well, you're really not doing anything to help your issues. They are:

>

> World completion is boring, everything dies too fast.

> and

> Whenever I try to help friends who are new to the game, it isn't fun.

>

> re: World completion -

> After your first couple of characters, world completion is just something you get through. But you can do things to change it up and maybe make it more entertaining. You don't even have to fight.

> You can try to get through it as quickly as possible.

> Try to use only stealth/avoidance and not ever fight.

> Use only movement skills to out-maneuver the enemy.

> Fight but use only CC, so nothing ever has to die.

>

> If you're half as good as you say you are, any of these (and more) should be viable.

>

> re: Helping my friends who are new to the game - Put on a healing/support build and actually *help* them. Show them how to dodge. Show them that you can use buffs to support NPC's and other players. Teach them about buffs and combos.(*show* them how to do these) Explain tells, tactics, break bars, etc... Helping new players is one of the most rewarding things you can do in this game. If it isn't, then you're not doing it right.

>

Having a dedicated support/healer in a zone where the game is already too easy.... I don't think that solves the problem. As for difficulty if I have to try and make the game hard by playing ways I would never do then the game is badly designed.

Wouldn't a more aggressive scale down of power for high levels or a way to select a friend you are playing with and scale down to their level be better. I like that idea if you click match level on your level 12 friend and then you guys bump into a level 14 enemy. You get the added difficulty of being lower level than the mob because you stay at 12 with your friend.

Tharus.7249 · June 1, 2018

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> As far as world complete goes, too many people make the mistake of trying to do it (and a lot of other things in the game) in a binge storm. If all the long term tasks are done on a short term schedule, then it won't be anything but frustrating due to sheer fixation of the fact you want to go faster.

>

> I've found it much more manageable to handle World Complete as a distraction/adventure, but never out of deliberate reward chasing. Every day I do the daily routine of PSNA, the daily achievements, Dry Top for Quartz, and an LS3 gathering run if I'm low on something. The whole thing is a 2 hour affair.... and on work days thats all I have time to do. Then on the weekend I do WvW for the weekly skirmish track, since thats the only time most servers will put up a legit effort into fighting. The Fights are to accumulate WXP, since theres at least enough people to maintain a proper K-train if the zerg clashes are too unbalanced. Trying to do that outside of that window is a massive pain, because tower and keep captures are the biggest sources of WvW, and can be consistent enough to take advantage of a booster.

I never do world complete as a reward chasing goal. I did it twice years ago when the game was new and never since. I don't do things if I don't find them fun and I haven't felt the lower level zones are fun despite me liking them better than the new zones. If they got even slightly challenging again I would find it fun to do older events in those zones. I would be all over the place helping all those new guys fight champions and triggering events they didn't know about. I don't think the game does a good job of encouraging that at the moment despite having all these features that are supposed to.

starlinvf.1358 · June 1, 2018

> @"Tharus.7249" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > As far as world complete goes, too many people make the mistake of trying to do it (and a lot of other things in the game) in a binge storm. If all the long term tasks are done on a short term schedule, then it won't be anything but frustrating due to sheer fixation of the fact you want to go faster.

> >

> > I've found it much more manageable to handle World Complete as a distraction/adventure, but never out of deliberate reward chasing. Every day I do the daily routine of PSNA, the daily achievements, Dry Top for Quartz, and an LS3 gathering run if I'm low on something. The whole thing is a 2 hour affair.... and on work days thats all I have time to do. Then on the weekend I do WvW for the weekly skirmish track, since thats the only time most servers will put up a legit effort into fighting. The Fights are to accumulate WXP, since theres at least enough people to maintain a proper K-train if the zerg clashes are too unbalanced. Trying to do that outside of that window is a massive pain, because tower and keep captures are the biggest sources of WvW, and can be consistent enough to take advantage of a booster.

>

> I never do world complete as a reward chasing goal. I did it twice years ago when the game was new and never since. I don't do things if I don't find them fun and I haven't felt the lower level zones are fun despite me liking them better than the new zones. If they got even slightly challenging again I would find it fun to do older events in those zones. I would be all over the place helping all those new guys fight champions and triggering events they didn't know about. I don't think the game does a good job of encouraging that at the moment despite having all these features that are supposed to.

I don't get the complaint then...... World complete is the only reason anyone would be "forced" to be in those areas other then a World boss... and for world boss, you just sit around until it spawns. Because it sounds like you're combining to 2 different issues on this conflicted premise of incentive, and its getting confusing. You want it to be harder so its more interesting while you're there.... but why are you there if you don't already have a goal in mind?

Neural.1824 · June 1, 2018

> @"Ojimaru.8970" said:

> Or you could store all your max DPS gear in the bank and go have fun. =)

This ^^^^^, a thousand times. If you feel your character is "too OP", then gear down or go without armor at all to increase the challenge.

Tharus.7249 · June 1, 2018

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > @"Tharus.7249" said:

> > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > As far as world complete goes, too many people make the mistake of trying to do it (and a lot of other things in the game) in a binge storm. If all the long term tasks are done on a short term schedule, then it won't be anything but frustrating due to sheer fixation of the fact you want to go faster.

> > >

> > > I've found it much more manageable to handle World Complete as a distraction/adventure, but never out of deliberate reward chasing. Every day I do the daily routine of PSNA, the daily achievements, Dry Top for Quartz, and an LS3 gathering run if I'm low on something. The whole thing is a 2 hour affair.... and on work days thats all I have time to do. Then on the weekend I do WvW for the weekly skirmish track, since thats the only time most servers will put up a legit effort into fighting. The Fights are to accumulate WXP, since theres at least enough people to maintain a proper K-train if the zerg clashes are too unbalanced. Trying to do that outside of that window is a massive pain, because tower and keep captures are the biggest sources of WvW, and can be consistent enough to take advantage of a booster.

> >

> > I never do world complete as a reward chasing goal. I did it twice years ago when the game was new and never since. I don't do things if I don't find them fun and I haven't felt the lower level zones are fun despite me liking them better than the new zones. If they got even slightly challenging again I would find it fun to do older events in those zones. I would be all over the place helping all those new guys fight champions and triggering events they didn't know about. I don't think the game does a good job of encouraging that at the moment despite having all these features that are supposed to.

>

> I don't get the complaint then...... World complete is the only reason anyone would be "forced" to be in those areas other then a World boss... and for world boss, you just sit around until it spawns. Because it sounds like you're combining to 2 different issues on this conflicted premise of incentive, and its getting confusing. You want it to be harder so its more interesting while you're there.... but why are you there if you don't already have a goal in mind?

The complaint was I can't play with my friends without feeling like i ruin the game for them. Then a second complaint was I've avoided the rest of the game world not because I don't want to go fight in places but because nothing is fun in lower level zones which is why I've not moved towards world completion on any other guys. World completion would have been a side effect of me going around the world enjoying content but I don't find the combat enjoyment.

Tharus.7249 · June 1, 2018

> @"Neural.1824" said:

> > @"Ojimaru.8970" said:

> > Or you could store all your max DPS gear in the bank and go have fun. =)

>

> This ^^^^^, a thousand times. If you feel your character is "too OP", then gear down or go without armor at all to increase the challenge.

I guess you missed this earlier post.