Do you think ANet should make Elite spec weapons available earlier?

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Kal Spiro.9745" said:

> I'm ok with weapons being locked behind elite specs. I wish elite specs weren't locked behind level 80 and having every skill and trait line unlocked. I would like to be able to start building into an Elite spec at level 21 when traits are unlocked.

 

Honestly I think the real problem is how Especs ended up being seen as "end game", thus devaluing Core in the process. The level design in Verdant Brink and Crystal Oasis perpetuate this problem, due to how drastically the Difficulty spikes in the opening corner of the map, reinforcing the idea you need the Especs ASAP just to survive. They wanted the ESpecs to be an unlock as you go process in the expansion's PvE content..... but both the level design, and the inherent need for 3 trait lines to have a coherent build, dismantled this idea at every turn.

 

This could had worked with the old Trait system, because it allowed you to invest in other areas while trying unlock portions of new line (pre-collection era achievements at the time).... you could keep a coherent build, and weave the new traits into it as they become available. But with the current trait system... you are literally denied 3 major traits, including the build defining Grandmasters, until 75% of the line is unlocked. Until that happens, you'd have to rely on a half functional Profession mechanic, the face value power of the weapon skills, and a huge power loss from a lack of trait synergy for the rest of your skills. And with the opening Maps actively trying to Drive home how it differs from Core Tyria, you're actively trying to avoid being at a disadvantage, rather then acclimating to the new environment.

 

It was very obvious in POF they wanted to take a second shot at "Especs as an Adventure" with the Training NPCs..... and it must had been just as obvious as it is now with HOT, that it wasn't going to work with players only having Half builds for the first several hours, surrounded by things that demand a full build just to combat. I'm pretty sure those that didn't have enough spare HPs from HOT just ran their HOT builds until they had enough to get the key traits unlocked...... and all the Boosted players trundled around with the pre-set (hyper defense) builds with no idea how to counter the more CC heavy enemies. _POF's huge saving grace is the space to navigate around the more dangerous mobs (such as Hydras), and do more controlled pulling in early maps._ Its forgiving enough that new players had some kind of control on their situation; and I'm assuming this is big reason most players didn't get frustrated there, but get hugely frustrated when they try hitting HOT afterwards.

 

 

But that does nothing to improve the learning curve of players; which would further exacerbate the problem of new players trying to load a barely unlocked Espec on a class they don't even understand the core of to begin with. Unlocking it early also doesn't make any of this better, because Core doesn't train you in enough mechanics to make the leap to PoF or HoT...... so you still hit that same wall, you still have no idea what you're doing wrong, except now you are under the impression that the new maps (or even the especs) are garbage, because your existing build competency has no value.

 

 

The entire leveling experience in Core needs a massive overhaul to facilitate any kind of importing of Especs into it. It would also need to happen if they want to address a crash course for players who came in late and boosted their first characters. Specializations, and by extension the Elite specs, were never designed with a good leveling process in mind. It just kind of rode on the low difficulty barrier of Core to carry casual players, and wrote off the difficulty spike as just part of the Expansion being the new "end game".

[piitb.7635]

The way it is currently set up Anet can add new weapon types to the game, being tied to elite specs, without having to go back and add and skin level 1-79 weapons.

 

They should keep it the same to allow this avenues to open up.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

 

Man, I didn't understand any of that. Traits don't matter in any of the open world content. They're nice to have and definitely change the play, but they're not actually making or breaking a class in that area. I just want the espec because it also includes the skills that go with it. If I can immediately start training and running an espec at 21 that means I'm building my character from nearly the ground up. At that level traits don't matter anyway since you basically don't have any. As for learning curves, what does that have to do with anything. You'd be learning your espec from the beginning, which is the most important thing at that point, rather than learning a class that will be turned upside down and now having to learn a completely different way of doing everything. This is more so true of the PoF especs.

[Alga.6498]

No it's fine the way it is. That's the whole point of the Expansion specs aswell… unlocking a new Elite spec for your character from the Expansion… :lol:

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Kal Spiro.9745" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

>

> Man, I didn't understand any of that. Traits don't matter in any of the open world content. They're nice to have and definitely change the play, but they're not actually making or breaking a class in that area. I just want the espec because it also includes the skills that go with it. If I can immediately start training and running an espec at 21 that means I'm building my character from nearly the ground up. At that level traits don't matter anyway since you basically don't have any. As for learning curves, what does that have to do with anything. You'd be learning your espec from the beginning, which is the most important thing at that point, rather than learning a class that will be turned upside down and now having to learn a completely different way of doing everything. This is more so true of the PoF especs.

 

ESpecs were put in primarily to address the complaints of veteran players that they were tired of playing the same professions in the same way for (at that time) 3 years. The secondary reason they were put in was to provide a sense of progression post-80. Making them available to players out the gate is irrelevant to the first design goal and contrary to the second. There are plenty of ways to instant-80: the scroll players can buy, the instant-80 with XPac's and combinations of birthday scrolls (this year, will there be an instant-level-60 version?) and Tomes. As such, I doubt ANet sees the desire to play ESpecs "right away" as enough of an insurmountable problem to warrant stepping away from the design goals.

 

This is not me saying, "Don't ask." It is me saying, "Don't expect changes."

[Kal Spiro.9745]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

I never expect changes. But that's not really what this thread is about, is it?

[rajmaj.4576]

I like the process of learning how to use a new weapon with a character, even though it took a bit of time. Personally I think the time to learn the class' base mechanics is good, as when I boosted a character I felt lost despite just having to learn one specialisation instead of relearning the character.

[Edelweiss.4261]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> If we were to have "everything available from the start" it may be too much for new players to decipher. The progression system is in a good place. When you hit 80 you have 100% of core unlocked and have to work a little for those elite specs. When you look back, the time spent leveling to cap will seem less significant compared to your experience after 80.

 

This is something I didn't really consider. I frequently enjoy leveling alts to 80 and trying different builds, so I was coming at it from that angle. Leveling a new character to 80 before having access to all of the toys can feel quite tedious at times. I do agree that having this as an option may be a bit much for new players, however.