DemonSeed.3528 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Conncept.7638" said: > Second, far more fights have a real, concrete, satisfying _conclusion_. There's no more petering off as people get revived and then die and then get revived again, and both sides can't tell what's going on, are we winning, are we losing, do we stay at spawn or run back, or this, or that, or the other thing; it's exhausting, confusing, and anticlimactic. A good encounter should always have a conclusion, instead of just when you steamroll or get steamrolled. And however inelegant removing the down state may be, it did the trick, and while I don't think that necessarily means that downstate needs to remain removed, getting standard WvW to where winning battles feels that way is certainly something the devs should consider, be it by this change or another. For me they feel less satisfying - it's just meh, kill kablam boom that's it, it's boring because they can't really fight back. How does steamroll/getting steamroll not have a conclusion? The steamroll is just faster now. I feel that the people who enjoy it more are probably the ones who didn't get to kill much, or the trolly groups who can't seal their kills. I do see some groups just not want to engage at all even with same numbers. Gank groups have been enjoying this more, as well as those people that like to chase off 1 guy with 15 ppl lol. The fighting just feels more dumbed down [for me], no feeling of risk at all. On the bright side at least finishing chests will be way easy. At least with this event it gives a chance for people to feel like they are killing stuff I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegie.3620 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > Can we do an event where your main's unique mechanic is disabled too? > Just your main class though, nobody else's Like many, I play all nine classes, so not sure what you mean. Are you saying that downstate is primordial in your current build identity, and that being deprived of it for one week, you resent ANEt's decision so much that your first reaction is to mock / flame players that dare to enjoy it, in the hope your louder voice will prevail in the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conncept.7638 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > @"Conncept.7638" said: > > Second, far more fights have a real, concrete, satisfying _conclusion_. There's no more petering off as people get revived and then die and then get revived again, and both sides can't tell what's going on, are we winning, are we losing, do we stay at spawn or run back, or this, or that, or the other thing; it's exhausting, confusing, and anticlimactic. A good encounter should always have a conclusion, instead of just when you steamroll or get steamrolled. And however inelegant removing the down state may be, it did the trick, and while I don't think that necessarily means that downstate needs to remain removed, getting standard WvW to where winning battles feels that way is certainly something the devs should consider, be it by this change or another. > > For me they feel less satisfying - it's just meh, kill kablam boom that's it, it's boring because they can't really fight back. How does steamroll/getting steamroll not have a conclusion? The steamroll is just faster now. I feel that the people who enjoy it more are probably the ones who didn't get to kill much, or the trolly groups who can't seal their kills. I do see some groups just not want to engage at all even with same numbers. Gank groups have been enjoying this more, as well as those people that like to chase off 1 guy with 15 ppl lol. The fighting just feels more dumbed down [for me], no feeling of risk at all. On the bright side at least finishing chests will be way easy. At least with this event it gives a chance for people to feel like they are killing stuff I suppose. That is the exact opposite of what I said, under the _normal_ system, the only time a fight had a real conclusion is when one side steamrolled the other, whereas under this new temporary system, you much more frequently get a concrete and clear conclusion in those fights where one side does _not_ steamroll the other. And I don't see by what logic steamrolling is faster, this whole change makes zerging and population a much smaller advantage, as when you kill someone, they are dead, and there is absolutely _nothing_ the zerg can do about it. So a smaller group of better players can kite, snipe, and dive and actually make a dent in a zerg, unlike before where any such tactic would have merely resulted in a downed player, that would be revived, literally instantly, as his zerg rolled over him towards you. This change single-handedly removed one of the most powerful tools and enabling mechanics behind zerging, as many players said it would who repeatedly made the suggestion over the last six years. Not even kidding, if the old forums were up, you would find hundreds, if not thousands, of threads in which this change was suggested, it seemed so obvious to so many that I can't believe it's taken the devs this long just to test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > > Was winning a lot of outnumbered fights last night on the red bl with our closed raid. Downstate made it hard to win outnumbered so I love this change. > > > > True skill wins outnumbered even with downstate. > > ya, ok there pal. In a 22 vs 60 how can you finish 20 downs when you have 40 other guys pushing you? You have no clue what you're talking about. If you can't handle it, then maybe you shouldn't try in the first place - better yet, if you can't then maybe you should try getting more people? Try different tactics for chipping their numbers, don't push blindly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkamania.7561 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > > @"" said: > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > > > Was winning a lot of outnumbered fights last night on the red bl with our closed raid. Downstate made it hard to win outnumbered so I love this change. > > > > > > True skill wins outnumbered even with downstate. > > > > ya, ok there pal. In a 22 vs 60 how can you finish 20 downs when you have 40 other guys pushing you? You have no clue what you're talking about. > > If you can't handle it, then maybe you shouldn't try in the first place - better yet, if you can't then maybe you should try getting more people? Try different tactics for chipping their numbers, don't push blindly Zerg busting is better with this system. If you don't understand that I dunno what anyone can say to get through to you so whatever. DKAL lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > > > @"" said: > > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > > > > > Was winning a lot of outnumbered fights last night on the red bl with our closed raid. Downstate made it hard to win outnumbered so I love this change. > > > > > > > > True skill wins outnumbered even with downstate. > > > > > > ya, ok there pal. In a 22 vs 60 how can you finish 20 downs when you have 40 other guys pushing you? You have no clue what you're talking about. > > > > If you can't handle it, then maybe you shouldn't try in the first place - better yet, if you can't then maybe you should try getting more people? Try different tactics for chipping their numbers, don't push blindly > > Zerg busting is better with this system. If you don't understand that I dunno what anyone can say to get through to you so whatever. DKAL lol It's a crutch is what it is. That's understandable if you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"Zefrost.3425" said: > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > If they remove it and keep the game as it was, it'd be one of the biggest mistakes Anet has ever made with gw2. > > > > > > I was skeptical about it before i played reset last night, however it was pretty dam fun lord room fights as a Weaver is pretty intense to say the least, What's your reason to why it would be a mistake? > > > > Because currently, GW2 is highly successful and bringing in many new players. Why change what isn't broken? Jagex did that with EoC and destroyed runescape (though OSRS has brought it back) I know I would quit if downstate was gone. > > > > Downstate adds a sense of urgency or panic and introduces a whole new skillset when someone goes down in a fight. Bad players will try to res the downed without being intelligent about it which lets you kill more players with AOE, for example. > > Actually outnumbered fights are more fun and fair now with no downstate, I killed 2 scourges solo before, I killed one and I didn't have to worry about his stupid broken downed state or being ressed by a stupid npc death, so I immediately focused the other guy killing him as well. Sometimes you are in a 1vs2 and you down one guy, and the other guy unless its a thief will get the ress 9 times out of 10 and then they win, that's not fair, it's stupid and frustrating when happens. he's probably a zergling that relies on others to revive him. no way there's a single roamer will ever complain about not having a downstate. when you 1v3, down one of them, and he's insta rezed, that's just cheap. Lots of times i had to disengage in a 1vX because there was no way of killing the downed person before he gets rezed. That's just dumb. Downstate belongs to pve, not pvp. If you rely on downstate for people to revive you, then maybe get better at the game instead of relying on a noob friendly mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Elegie.3620" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > Can we do an event where your main's unique mechanic is disabled too? > > Just your main class though, nobody else's > > Like many, I play all nine classes, so not sure what you mean. Are you saying that downstate is primordial in your current build identity, and that being deprived of it for one week, you resent ANEt's decision so much that your first reaction is to mock / flame players that dare to enjoy it, in the hope your louder voice will prevail in the end? 1. How is playing "all nine classes" relevant? I'm talking about a specific e-spec. 2. Straw man! I'm not talking about downstate, I'm talking scrapper's unique mechanic, which can only be used with downstate. I wouldn't mind this "mode" if it wasn't exclusionary. 3. I would enjoy it if Deadeye couldn't mark, or Mirage couldn't mirage cloak, so why are you mocking me for asking for some equality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > @"Zefrost.3425" said: > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > If they remove it and keep the game as it was, it'd be one of the biggest mistakes Anet has ever made with gw2. > > > > > > > > I was skeptical about it before i played reset last night, however it was pretty dam fun lord room fights as a Weaver is pretty intense to say the least, What's your reason to why it would be a mistake? > > > > > > Because currently, GW2 is highly successful and bringing in many new players. Why change what isn't broken? Jagex did that with EoC and destroyed runescape (though OSRS has brought it back) I know I would quit if downstate was gone. > > > > > > Downstate adds a sense of urgency or panic and introduces a whole new skillset when someone goes down in a fight. Bad players will try to res the downed without being intelligent about it which lets you kill more players with AOE, for example. > > > > Actually outnumbered fights are more fun and fair now with no downstate, I killed 2 scourges solo before, I killed one and I didn't have to worry about his stupid broken downed state or being ressed by a stupid npc death, so I immediately focused the other guy killing him as well. Sometimes you are in a 1vs2 and you down one guy, and the other guy unless its a thief will get the ress 9 times out of 10 and then they win, that's not fair, it's stupid and frustrating when happens. > > he's probably a zergling that relies on others to revive him. no way there's a single roamer will ever complain about not having a downstate. when you 1v3, down one of them, and he's insta rezed, that's just cheap. Lots of times i had to disengage in a 1vX because there was no way of killing the downed person before he gets rezed. That's just dumb. Downstate belongs to pve, not pvp. If you rely on downstate for people to revive you, then maybe get better at the game instead of relying on a noob friendly mechanic. Exactly, I am not that great player, but I have lost count how many 1vs2 I would have won if there wasn't a stupid downed state to ress those bad players around, especially if the ressing guy is a ranger or a warrior popping stab and endure pain, you can't pressure the downed and the ressed enough to kill the down or interrupt the resser. I don't mind downed state in pve or even pvp because of control points and a downed still contribute to a cap or deny a cap. But as someone said, WvW is war zone, if you die you just die, and it's cheap being ressed and win a battle when you don't deserve it. If you died means you are bad and you should be sent to spawn, end of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virelion.4128 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > ... If anet will change downstate in wvw permamently they would need to change a lot skils. Scraper function gyro would be changed as well. Chill out. As I am enjoying no downstate while playing necro in wvw, I think that it wouls require too much of functional skill splits between modes. Just because of this this change will not be implemented permamently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geist.9173 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 It provides bad gameplay we already have in roaming with thieves and mesmer (and some other builds). If we had no downstate, everyone would go back to bunker builds and we'd see even more stupid and endless fights just to avoid death as it is already the case now. And it completely takes out a tactical option to bait people with downstate players or in the other case good teamwork to res someone of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meviken.2054 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Heibi.4251" said: > The no downstate was quite enjoyable last night. I can see its allure. But I think the occasional us of the no downstate week would be better than a permanent one. The week is still young and we'll see what kind of population is left after the weekend. Will it be an increased runaway from a fight wasteland(which already existed before) or will more stand and fight encounters? My squad did real well last night and had a great time. But after defeating a certain group multiple times, they never stood and fought us again, unless they had massive backup. I hesitate to use the limited experience so far as an indicator, but I think WvW population has upticked a little. Not sure how much, but I see a lot more friendly dots on the map at the times I play than I did last week or the week before. There are a lot of complaints about the "no downed state," though. Many players don't like it, but are willing to put up with it for the concomitant bonuses during the time it'll be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"geist.9173" said: > It provides bad gameplay we already have in roaming with thieves and mesmer (and some other builds). If we had no downstate, everyone would go back to bunker builds and we'd see even more stupid and endless fights just to avoid death as it is already the case now. > And it completely takes out a tactical option to bait people with downstate players or in the other case good teamwork to res someone of your own. No one is going bunker because of mesmers and thieves. That's just your imagination speaking. Game will stay exactly as is but instead of having a circlejerk during every zeg fight, it would an actual fight that you cannot faceroll. And when it comes to roaming, its significantly easier to 1v3 when you know they won't be reviving the downed players as soo as they're in the downstate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geist.9173 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Meviken.2054" said: > > @"Heibi.4251" said: > > The no downstate was quite enjoyable last night. I can see its allure. But I think the occasional us of the no downstate week would be better than a permanent one. The week is still young and we'll see what kind of population is left after the weekend. Will it be an increased runaway from a fight wasteland(which already existed before) or will more stand and fight encounters? My squad did real well last night and had a great time. But after defeating a certain group multiple times, they never stood and fought us again, unless they had massive backup. > > I hesitate to use the limited experience so far as an indicator, but I think WvW population has upticked a little. Not sure how much, but I see a lot more friendly dots on the map at the times I play than I did last week or the week before. > > There are a lot of complaints about the "no downed state," though. Many players don't like it, but are willing to put up with it for the concomitant bonuses during the time it'll be that way. You forgot that it is not "no down state weekend" but also giving huge bonuses to MF, reward tracks and wvwxp. They are the reason for more players in wvw. Everyone wants the ranks for the armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geist.9173 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > @"geist.9173" said: > > It provides bad gameplay we already have in roaming with thieves and mesmer (and some other builds). If we had no downstate, everyone would go back to bunker builds and we'd see even more stupid and endless fights just to avoid death as it is already the case now. > > And it completely takes out a tactical option to bait people with downstate players or in the other case good teamwork to res someone of your own. > > No one is going bunker because of mesmers and thieves. That's just your imagination speaking. Game will stay exactly as is but instead of having a kitten during every zeg fight, it would an actual fight that you cannot faceroll. And when it comes to roaming, its significantly easier to 1v3 when you know they won't be reviving the downed players as soo as they're in the downstate. That's your opinion, it doesn't equal a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Virelion.4128" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > ... > If anet will change downstate in wvw permamently they would need to change a lot skils. Scraper function gyro would be changed as well. Chill out. Lol, no they wouldn't. Engineers have been asking for "function" gyro to have some "function" other than finishing or rezzing for years -- since HoT launched, in fact. We can't use it to harvest nodes, we can't use it on full-downed allies, we can't use it to interact with environmental objects. It's basically a worse form of "Search and Rescue!" because it doesn't even have pet functionality. So if they made this permanent, I wouldn't expect them to adjust scrapper at all. Why would they when they haven't for this long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryrok.1302 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Grain of salt, because I'm a super casual player and am just learning WvW, but it is far more fun for me this week than last. I love having downed state in Open World, because sometimes you'll get dismounted by a zillion mobs and need it to help you fight your way out. But in WvW it felt like I couldn't contribute, especially since I don't have a large group of friends or a guild. I'm betting that the more established and organized you are in WvW, the more this may be punishing. But if you're just trying out the mode trying to see if you want to play more, I think it's a win. And if it encourages players gear less glass cannon, I think that's for the better. That said, I _do_ think reducing runback times would be a win, because IMO that's the worst part of WvW (well, that and the completely opaque mechanics that there's not a great way to learn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"geist.9173" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > @"geist.9173" said: > > > It provides bad gameplay we already have in roaming with thieves and mesmer (and some other builds). If we had no downstate, everyone would go back to bunker builds and we'd see even more stupid and endless fights just to avoid death as it is already the case now. > > > And it completely takes out a tactical option to bait people with downstate players or in the other case good teamwork to res someone of your own. > > > > No one is going bunker because of mesmers and thieves. That's just your imagination speaking. Game will stay exactly as is but instead of having a kitten during every zeg fight, it would an actual fight that you cannot faceroll. And when it comes to roaming, its significantly easier to 1v3 when you know they won't be reviving the downed players as soo as they're in the downstate. > > That's your opinion, it doesn't equal a fact. Your idea makes no sense. I play enough wvw to know that what you've suggested will never happen. So its not much of a matter of opinion, but simply common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilamanjaro.2705 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I keep waiting for it to grow on me.....hasn't happened. Been in on DH, SpB, Scourge and Chrono. Havoc, solo and zerg. Once I hit diamond 6 this week I'm done, bonus xp/MF or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geist.9173 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > Your idea makes no sense. I play enough wvw to know that what you've suggested will never happen. So its not much of a matter of opinion, but simply common sense. So you basically even can't argument, but call your opinion common sense? That sounds like you are from Amurica. Care to elaborate your "common sense". If not, don't bother to join a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I don't consider myself a pro player or anything, but let me just say generally speaking that if you are one of those players that don't bother trying to be competitive you deserve to get farmed. If you are one of those players that have to get carried because of downstate and only know how to run to find safety in zergs because you cant be bothered to stop using zerker gear, scholar runes and magic find food, than honestly I don't care if your hunt for shinies gets derailed because your constant rallybotting is ruining it for others. This should be a permanent feature, or at the very least they should take the nerfbat to rezzing and downstate in general. Also Sasha love your quirky quotes in teamchat every night :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"geist.9173" said: > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said: > > > > > Your idea makes no sense. I play enough wvw to know that what you've suggested will never happen. So its not much of a matter of opinion, but simply common sense. > > So you basically even can't argument, but call your opinion common sense? That sounds like you are from Amurica. > Care to elaborate your "common sense". If not, don't bother to join a discussion. > > There's nothing to argue. It cannot happen. Its like expecting Anet to upgrade thier engine, it simply cannot happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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