urdriel.8496 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"Daishi.6027" said: > **Every class is given every tool they need to to out play a mirage I'm sorry if you do not see it, or know how to use it. > **Yes mirage has every tool to out play majority of the roster (still susceptible to a few counters) but that is true balance.** Then, i stopped reading because now i know which kind of balance you are looking for, arguing with you dont have any sense................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"urdriel.8496" said: > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > **Every class is given every tool they need to to out play a mirage I'm sorry if you do not see it, or know how to use it. > > **Yes mirage has every tool to out play majority of the roster (still susceptible to a few counters) but that is true balance.** > > Then, i stopped reading because now i know which kind of balance you are looking for, arguing with you dont have any sense................ Then there is no hope for you and you'll never be able to beat it even after nerfs. Your justification will just be "It needs to be nerfed even more". It's a good example of the kind of balance you are looking for. While I'm here with many others able to beat it consistently on pretty much any medium class, war, and sometimes ele. That is more than half the roster, and I don't really play the others so I cannot comment, but I'm sure they can do it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urdriel.8496 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > @"urdriel.8496" said: > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > **Every class is given every tool they need to to out play a mirage I'm sorry if you do not see it, or know how to use it. > > > **Yes mirage has every tool to out play majority of the roster (still susceptible to a few counters) but that is true balance.** > > > > Then, i stopped reading because now i know which kind of balance you are looking for, arguing with you dont have any sense................ > > Then there is no hope for you and you'll never be able to beat it even after nerfs. Your justification will just be "It needs to be nerfed even more". > It's a good example of the kind of balance you are looking for. > > While I'm here with many others able to beat it consistently on pretty much any medium class, war, and sometimes ele. That is more than half the roster, and I don't really play the others so I cannot comment, but I'm sure they can do it too. you are confused, you think that being able to beat a class, and a class being balanced is the same thing, and then when someone claim that a class need a tone down you say that he must l2p because you can kill them and they are balanced, sry man, you cant call a class balanced when they can permaevade while attacking/ressing/killing and evade in this game dont have any counter., and i didnt say i couldnt kill them , but to kill a mesmer is ten times harder than kill with such class, Meta must change, that would be good for the game itself, but right now, meta is always same class with distinct builds. You should compare what classes ( not mesmers alone) bring to the table, and then compare with other classes, if between 8-10 you have 4 that will always be better, then you need a balance, and you dont even need to l2p to do that, is common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"urdriel.8496" said: > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > @"urdriel.8496" said: > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > > **Every class is given every tool they need to to out play a mirage I'm sorry if you do not see it, or know how to use it. > > > > **Yes mirage has every tool to out play majority of the roster (still susceptible to a few counters) but that is true balance.** > > > > > > Then, i stopped reading because now i know which kind of balance you are looking for, arguing with you dont have any sense................ > > > > Then there is no hope for you and you'll never be able to beat it even after nerfs. Your justification will just be "It needs to be nerfed even more". > > It's a good example of the kind of balance you are looking for. > > > > While I'm here with many others able to beat it consistently on pretty much any medium class, war, and sometimes ele. That is more than half the roster, and I don't really play the others so I cannot comment, but I'm sure they can do it too. >sry man, you cant call a class balanced when they can permaevade while attacking/ressing/killing and evade in this game dont have any counter. ^ This is why you are critically wrong. You cannot "perma evade" let alone during a rez or stomp, nor while attacking for that matter but sure, there are skills that offer evades like blurred frenzy. However evade weapon attacks are not unique to mesmer. If you are making an argument to do away with all evades on weapon skills then I'm fine, and I'd be willing to have that discussion. Mirage has the same 2 doges, 1 long cooldown, and 1 short cooldown like every other class gets. You get one for heal, but that is blatantly obvious since it spawns a thing they need to actually walk into, if you are blowing cooldowns on that it is your own fault. You say perma when thief, and ranger have more access to evades, and Ranger pet is better than any phantasm for AI disjointed combat pressure. xD There is plenty counter play to evades, including baiting them. Heres a fun one next time you stun a mirage without EM, stow my weapons and see if he is silly enough to waste his time blowing two doges /gg. Works more often than you'd think. (if he is a patient player start an attack animation, and cancel.) Oh but you think hes evading all the time right nvm, I take it back, it wont work cuz you can't bait infinite endurance. Okay fine, killing something alone doesn't equal balanced. Game revolves around conquest lets use that as the basis for balance. As mirage it doesn't delay 3-2v1 on point vs decent players, fairly easy to push it off a point and force it to rotate, other classes are better in team fights and many faster at +1ing ganks, Sure it's strong side node 1v1 but as we've already gone over it's not hard to shut down..... So unless we're back to 2014 crying "Portal is OP", still in line with the rest of the game. (Excluding Condi mirage's output.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialka.7290 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > @"urdriel.8496" said: > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > **Every class is given every tool they need to to out play a mirage I'm sorry if you do not see it, or know how to use it. > > > **Yes mirage has every tool to out play majority of the roster (still susceptible to a few counters) but that is true balance.** > > > > Then, i stopped reading because now i know which kind of balance you are looking for, arguing with you dont have any sense................ > > Then there is no hope for you and you'll never be able to beat it even after nerfs. Your justification will just be "It needs to be nerfed even more". > It's a good example of the kind of balance you are looking for. > > While I'm here with many others able to beat it consistently on pretty much any medium class, war, and sometimes ele. That is more than half the roster, and I don't really play the others so I cannot comment, but I'm sure they can do it too. Yes, every class has every tool to deal with a mirage, BUT those class need to commit everything to deal with mirage, meaning, they will get wrecked against everyone else, while the mirage sacrifice NOTHING to deal with other class. Sorry to burst your bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"Specialka.7290" said: > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > @"urdriel.8496" said: > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > > **Every class is given every tool they need to to out play a mirage I'm sorry if you do not see it, or know how to use it. > > > > **Yes mirage has every tool to out play majority of the roster (still susceptible to a few counters) but that is true balance.** > > > > > > Then, i stopped reading because now i know which kind of balance you are looking for, arguing with you dont have any sense................ > > > > Then there is no hope for you and you'll never be able to beat it even after nerfs. Your justification will just be "It needs to be nerfed even more". > > It's a good example of the kind of balance you are looking for. > > > > While I'm here with many others able to beat it consistently on pretty much any medium class, war, and sometimes ele. That is more than half the roster, and I don't really play the others so I cannot comment, but I'm sure they can do it too. > > Yes, every class has every tool to deal with a mirage, BUT those class need to commit everything to deal with mirage, meaning, they will get wrecked against everyone else, while the mirage sacrifice NOTHING to deal with other class. > > Sorry to burst your bubble. Could you please elaborate or offer examples to support your claim? I have felt evenly screwed running out of cooldowns mid fight, the exception being that I can escape on thief and mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loboling.5293 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Mesmer has always been the least pleasant profession to fight, but the devs have made it even worse with this latest mesmer rework. I'd almost be happy if they were banned from pvp, but I wouldn't go that far.... Still, I think mesmers are a really silly profession, makes me forget how good the old days of pvp used to be. I'm so glad scourge has been brought down too, that class also used to be very oppressive, but it was short lived. Now it's just Meta tier, but for mesmer, they need to do something to remove the visual bloat. There are settings and changes they made because people don't like having a million particle effects on their screen, but mesmer forces you to endure that due to their class mechanics. (Unlike just removing some visual noise from engineer and elementalist skills) There is just too much clone spam now, its ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 > @"Loboling.5293" said: > Mesmer has always been the least pleasant profession to fight, but the devs have made it even worse with this latest mesmer rework. I'd almost be happy if they were banned from pvp, but I wouldn't go that far.... Still, I think mesmers are a really silly profession, makes me forget how good the old days of pvp used to be. I'm so glad scourge has been brought down too, that class also used to be very oppressive, but it was short lived. Now it's just Meta tier, but for mesmer, they need to do something to remove the visual bloat. There are settings and changes they made because people don't like having a million particle effects on their screen, but mesmer forces you to endure that due to their class mechanics. (Unlike just removing some visual noise from engineer and elementalist skills) There is just too much clone spam now, its ridiculous. That's only really a 'problem' on chronomancer otherwise it's about the same as it's always been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiki.9310 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 It has never been fun. They have so much damage, CC, and escapes in every build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeteCommander.4937 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Fighting against ranger is the most boring，they have too much Heal,sustain , condi remov,and evade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.3409 Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said: > Fighting against ranger is the most boring，they have too much Heal,sustain , condi remov,and evade i agree... theres really no counter plays to them beside.. being melee range.. and being able to break out of their knockback and evading their beast mode skills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st elmos fire.2987 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I like fighting mesmers on my holo cos I win them. But I main mesmer so I know them pretty well. Mirage is just booring to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarghhrrkblah.3412 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Obviously I'm biased as a thief main, but the classes most irritating for me to fight are scourge and spellbreaker. I think even condi thief is worse for me than mesmer. Mesmers can only have 3 clones out at once and it really only takes practice to pick out the real one. I rarely feel like i lose to mirage because of the class itself, but rather because of my own mistakes (ie stealing into blurred frenzy, distort or dodge). That said, there are a few mechanics that i think don't belong in the game. The biggest one is being able to dodge when stunned/immob'd (yes i feel the same about dash). Another one is the mirage detarget mechanic. Anets own stance on the game is the players should be "playing the game and not the ui." Detargeting forces players to watch their ui so they don't burn key skills on the air. It's just really annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smety.5379 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 For me the hardest class to deal with.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urdriel.8496 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Jay.3409" said: > > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said: > > Fighting against ranger is the most boring，they have too much Heal,sustain , condi remov,and evade > > i agree... theres really no counter plays to them beside.. being melee range.. and being able to break out of their knockback and evading their beast mode skills... yeah, nerf Ranger into the ground, is OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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