Daher Main Hand dmg

[NoNameNoob.9758]

Hey ,

 

i just came back to The Game 2 weeks ago.

Played some Pvp/WvW with D/P thief and it feels like The Dmg is to low.

Was there any Nerf to The Auto Attacks from Dagger Main Hand?

[MUDse.7623]

yes AA from dagger and sword got nerfed.

[NoNameNoob.9758]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> yes AA from dagger and sword got nerfed.

 

Wow thanks, any reason? Dagger aa was Not that powerfull at all? Do you Know The exact numbers from The nerv?

Where can i find The Patchnotes ?

Thanks!

[MUDse.7623]

> @"NoNameNoob.9758" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > yes AA from dagger and sword got nerfed.

>

> Wow thanks, any reason? Dagger aa was Not that powerfull at all? Do you Know The exact numbers from The nerv?

> Where can i find The Patchnotes ?

> Thanks!

 

patchnotes:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33724/game-update-notes-march-27-2018#latest

 

but more detailed dev note is in this here :

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/34056/damage-nerf-by-the-numbers/p2

 

why it was done i am not really sure of but the dagger AA was strong so it was often not usefull to use any other skill aside from backstab and AA for damage they did plan to also buff shadow shot and heartseeker damage in the same patch but when the patch came they already had removed that already. what did make less sense was sowrd AA nerf in the same patch tho, that did hurt sword dagger thieves alot especially in wvw roaming were opponents can be tankier then in spvp.

 

the thing with thief damage is that many common builds dont use enough of thieves damage potential as that would be too squishy, wich is only worth if you can oneshot. in fact thief especially as deadeye can build up bursts that are able to 100-0 people within no time. if you now buff thieves damage so that the more defensive builds deal decent damage, then you can build for oneshots with even less investment into it and will have a higher chance to get away with oneshot builds, wich is already pretty forgiving and deemed unhealthy by many.

[NoNameNoob.9758]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"NoNameNoob.9758" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > yes AA from dagger and sword got nerfed.

> >

> > Wow thanks, any reason? Dagger aa was Not that powerfull at all? Do you Know The exact numbers from The nerv?

> > Where can i find The Patchnotes ?

> > Thanks!

>

> patchnotes:

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33724/game-update-notes-march-27-2018#latest

>

> but more detailed dev note is in this here :

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/34056/damage-nerf-by-the-numbers/p2

>

> why it was done i am not really sure of but the dagger AA was strong so it was often not usefull to use any other skill aside from backstab and AA for damage they did plan to also buff shadow shot and heartseeker damage in the same patch but when the patch came they already had removed that already. what did make less sense was sowrd AA nerf in the same patch tho, that did hurt sword dagger thieves alot especially in wvw roaming were opponents can be tankier then in spvp.

>

> the thing with thief damage is that many common builds dont use enough of thieves damage potential as that would be too squishy, wich is only worth if you can oneshot. in fact thief especially as deadeye can build up bursts that are able to 100-0 people within no time. if you now buff thieves damage so that the more defensive builds deal decent damage, then you can build for oneshots with even less investment into it and will have a higher chance to get away with oneshot builds, wich is already pretty forgiving and deemed unhealthy by many.

 

 

Thanks a lot for The Information !

[DeceiverX.8361]

Even backstab was a burst loss the AA was previously so good. Standard PvP burst was Shadow Shot -> AA since SShot's aftercast/cast delay is faster than backstab's, which led to more AA's per unit of time.

 

 

[NoNameNoob.9758]

but it feels way to weak now idk maybe it was a bit to much

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"NoNameNoob.9758" said:

> but it feels way to weak now idk maybe it was a bit to much

 

Well.. they were going to buff heart seekers. But for some reason people said it wasn't needed.

 

Honestly, if they just buffed the situational side of the move it'd be fine.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"NoNameNoob.9758" said:

> > but it feels way to weak now idk maybe it was a bit to much

>

> Well.. they were going to buff heart seekers. But for some reason people said it wasn't needed.

>

> Honestly, if they just buffed the situational side of the move it'd be fine.

 

heartseeker needs to leave the thief vulnerable as it is a commonly used way to enter stealth using it in combo with a smoke field. but this vulnerability here makes the skill pretty useless in most situation for actually dealing damage. if my opponents run tanky builds whos damage i dont need to fear and when they are low i sometimes still just spamm heartseeker cause then it does its job as a finisher. but against most opponents you simply cant use the skill within their reach.

if they now made the smoke + leap/blast combos just extend stealth but not grant stealth to a visible player, then we could change heartseeker to be safer for the thief than it currently is and it would balance out a little the d/d and d/p builds so that d/d is the only stealth weaving one while d/p is an ambush set and not d/p superior in both.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @"NoNameNoob.9758" said:

> > > but it feels way to weak now idk maybe it was a bit to much

> >

> > Well.. they were going to buff heart seekers. But for some reason people said it wasn't needed.

> >

> > Honestly, if they just buffed the situational side of the move it'd be fine.

>

> heartseeker needs to leave the thief vulnerable as it is a commonly used way to enter stealth using it in combo with a smoke field. but this vulnerability here makes the skill pretty useless in most situation for actually dealing damage. if my opponents run tanky builds whos damage i dont need to fear and when they are low i sometimes still just spamm heartseeker cause then it does its job as a finisher. but against most opponents you simply cant use the skill within their reach.

> if they now made the smoke + leap/blast combos just extend stealth but not grant stealth to a visible player, then we could change heartseeker to be safer for the thief than it currently is and it would balance out a little the d/d and d/p builds so that d/d is the only stealth weaving one while d/p is an ambush set and not d/p superior in both.

 

I'd agree with these changes.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @"NoNameNoob.9758" said:

> > > but it feels way to weak now idk maybe it was a bit to much

> >

> > Well.. they were going to buff heart seekers. But for some reason people said it wasn't needed.

> >

> > Honestly, if they just buffed the situational side of the move it'd be fine.

>

> heartseeker needs to leave the thief vulnerable as it is a commonly used way to enter stealth using it in combo with a smoke field. but this vulnerability here makes the skill pretty useless in most situation for actually dealing damage. if my opponents run tanky builds whos damage i dont need to fear and when they are low i sometimes still just spamm heartseeker cause then it does its job as a finisher. but against most opponents you simply cant use the skill within their reach.

> if they now made the smoke + leap/blast combos just extend stealth but not grant stealth to a visible player, then we could change heartseeker to be safer for the thief than it currently is and it would balance out a little the d/d and d/p builds so that d/d is the only stealth weaving one while d/p is an ambush set and not d/p superior in both.

 

I'd agree with these changes. However, it introduces a new problem of taking away power from one of thief's most usable kits. If it's too much, or will be fine will remain unknown.

 

The other problem is it introduces inconsistency. The heart seekers would become the only leap skill unable to cloak normally.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > @"NoNameNoob.9758" said:

> > > > but it feels way to weak now idk maybe it was a bit to much

> > >

> > > Well.. they were going to buff heart seekers. But for some reason people said it wasn't needed.

> > >

> > > Honestly, if they just buffed the situational side of the move it'd be fine.

> >

> > heartseeker needs to leave the thief vulnerable as it is a commonly used way to enter stealth using it in combo with a smoke field. but this vulnerability here makes the skill pretty useless in most situation for actually dealing damage. if my opponents run tanky builds whos damage i dont need to fear and when they are low i sometimes still just spamm heartseeker cause then it does its job as a finisher. but against most opponents you simply cant use the skill within their reach.

> > if they now made the smoke + leap/blast combos just extend stealth but not grant stealth to a visible player, then we could change heartseeker to be safer for the thief than it currently is and it would balance out a little the d/d and d/p builds so that d/d is the only stealth weaving one while d/p is an ambush set and not d/p superior in both.

>

> I'd agree with these changes. However, it introduces a new problem of taking away power from one of thief's most usable kits. If it's too much, or will be fine will remain unknown.

>

> The other problem is it introduces inconsistency. The heart seekers would become the only leap skill unable to cloak normally.

 

no i didnt say that heartseeker should have an exclusive combo, i said the combo itself could be changed this would affect way more then just thief. basically if you want to stealth you have to apply it by other means you can just keep up the stealth for longer with a combo then. going into stealth is powerfull as it is a target break, while remainin in stealth is just a reset like running away. this way the combo would be more in line with other combos even if they increase the extended stealth amount to 4 or 5s. because you still need to get into stealth first wich is more limited.

and it wouldnt necessarily take away power from d/p depending on how good heartseeker is then, but it would bring d/d closer to d/p.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"NoNameNoob.9758" said:

> > but it feels way to weak now idk maybe it was a bit to much

>

> Well.. they were going to buff heart seekers. But for some reason people said it wasn't needed.

>

> Honestly, if they just buffed the situational side of the move it'd be fine.

 

The buffs weren't really going to do anything except make the thief better at stomping noobs and make HS spam/Shadow Shot spam return. 20k+ damage gap close skills is pretty dumb.

 

Thief's problems are design-level more than numeric at this point. Several of its individual skills are over-performing to keep it numerically "balanced" while the kit as a cohesive unit is under-performing.

 

Sad part is there's not much they can really do to make it better. If you buff numbers astronomically like they were going to, you have builds that run around spamming death blows. If you make the kit cohesion too good and cut cooldowns and costs, you end up with a situation where the thief has no real counter.

 

A major aspect of the thief is punishing moments of weakness and taking control of a fight; the thief is really good at doing this already. It's just a lot of other professions have no moments of weakness in their top-tier builds or have far too few spaced too far apart. If you just make the thief better at punishing, it doesn't change the breadth of opportunities; just the depth/magnitudes.

 

Fixing thief is really going to just need to come with fixing other professions. There are things they can do to help some under-performers, but it's still going to keep the class from being both viable and fair.