GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> I haven't played Guild Wars 2 in years, so my opinions don't hold much weight. But I do believe that ArenaNet handled this unbelievably poorly by firing the two developers and caving into the fringe mobs of kitten and the alt-right. And yes, I am aware that moderate voices were also part of the mix, but they were few and far in between when compared to the fringes.

>

> All this does is make the gaming industry realize that if you value your job, never ever interact with your customer base.

 

I don't know if you've read my comments, but in my opinion, ArenaNets actions are perfectly justified. It's just common sense, really. It's not about someones political views. Hell, I'd be happy if good old Bernie would win the next election.

 

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ash.5274" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"nosleepdemon.1368" said:

> > > > > > > > > The vast majority of you have a great deal of growing up to do. I just hope society isn't scuppered by the unreal amount of triggering and thin-skinnedness shown in this thread. I also hope none of you ever get on the chopping block for something you wrote on a web site. Losing your job sucks. Your employer not having your back absolutely sucks. It's not a good thing, a good thing would have been the devs apologising, instead they're out of a job with bills to pay. Anyone who says that's a good thing has never left their mother's basement.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So you should expect your employer to have your back when you make that employer look bad on social media? Really?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For what it's worth I completely agree that losing your job is never a good thing, but they lost their jobs as a direct consequence of their own actions. They have no one to blame but themselves, it really is as simple as that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So you're saying the company you work for controls your **personal** social media presence the minute you include who you work for in your **personal** social media, or write something that happens to be about what you work on? Well, I've decided to enlighten myself and allow people to have a work life and a personal life, two entirely different areas that should almost never encroach on each other, and that what someone says or does on their personal time does not nor ever will reflect on their employer...but I'm in the super minority on this point.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes and yes. You are free to post whatever you like on your personal social media accounts but if the content breaks the code of conduct for your company they have every right to remove you from your position. Turns out consequences exist

> > > > >

> > > > > Interesting how you completely ignored the remainder of my statement only to answer the rhetorical question I posed at the beginning...so let me restate what I said. It's my belief that your employer **does not** have control over what you post on your **personal** social media, regardless of whether or not said employer is listed on your personal social media accounts, and to further clarify, your employer does not need to have your back on what you post, but **neither do they have the right to sensor you**, it's your **personal thoughts and opinions, not the companies**...that's the difference and corporate America(and the World) needs to learn that.

> > > >

> > > > Thats not true at all, twitter isnt personal at all. Its accessible for all people. Furthermore, your points are valid to some degree, there is a line between personal life and work. But if you state in your "personal" social media account that you work for company in the gaming scene you also increase your range drasticly. If she doenst dress herself with being an anet employee she would just be another twitter nobody, nobody would even care to give her any attention at all.

> > > >

> > > > The fact that she willingly connects these two aspects means she also takes a responsibility here. Shes not just a personal twitter account at this moment anymore. This is, like in the comedy scene, or in politics, if you shittalk some of your fans, suppporters or customers (especially in gaming) you gotta pay the consequences.

> > > >

> > > > On topic, i think ANet did the right thing here, proving that they are not just the illusion of teamwork or a "business model" based on the "creating games for the players".

> > >

> > > Did ArenaNet set up that Twitter account for JP...if not then it's personal, regardless of what information you place on it...that is the basis of my entire thought process when it comes to these kind of social media issues. Unless the employer provides you that social media account it doesn't matter to me who or what you list on that account, it's your own personal account and the thoughts on that account belong to you and you alone, they do not reflect on your employer, even if you name that employer on your account. Why is that so hard for everyone to understand...are people so psychologically screwed up they can't separate the person from their job anymore? It happens a lot with athletes too, and politicians...I really don't understand humans anymore, it's like they've locked themselves into this tiny little moment in time and are unwilling to learn and change with the times. Sort of like how GW2 maps are snippets of time.

> >

> > I'm sorry, but this isn't how human society works. Work isn't just a means to earn money. Work also has important social functions such as generating the feeling that you're contributing to the society or the way it forms your identity. Work will always be a part of someones identity and as such, people will always represent their work, no matter if they want or not. If people don't want that, they shouldn't publicly associate themselves with their work. Mrs. Price did though and thus, she also represents her work. It's not anyones fault but her own that she dragged her work into it.

>

> Don't blame it on human society, blame it on human stupidity for not being able to separate work from personal life...my work only applies to me from when I clock in to when I clock out...the rest of the time is my own. Yes, I do act differently at work, I'm not the same person, I do not bring work home with me, I don't even think about once I leave it...it doesn't even define me...I don't even care about it...it's just a means to earn money, if I wanted to contribute to society that would have to be on a public stage like politics or volunteer work. My work has nothing to do with my identity, it's far from my identity...you couldn't guess what I do from knowing me. Ms or Miss Price should be allowed to say anything she wants on her own personal social media, whether she identifies her employer or not, but that's just to 24th Century for most humans to comprehend...one day people will stop caring about what other people do and what others think of them, only then will we as a society be able to evolve beyond petty grievances.

 

I don't blame it on human society. It's also not human "stupidity". It's how life works. When I have a meeting in office with one of my customers. Do you truly think it reflects well on my company when I meet that customer after work and insult him? That customer will most likely quit being my customer and may even tell other people that I'm not really professional. In this case, Mrs. Price especially took her work over to her spare time. She does represent her company when she's identifying herself with said company and talks about work in-depth. She could have chosen not to - it's her choice and thus, her responsibility. ...and if you truly think that we as society will evolve by ignoring sexistic insults... Chapeau!

 

[muffi.3964]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > @"Laivine.9308" said:

> > > @"Loukious.7346" said:

> > > > @"Twyn.7320" said:

> > > > This is Deroir's quote: 'But, if instead players were given the option to meaningfully express *their* character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options), then perhaps players would be more invested in the roleplaying aspect of that particular MMORPG. Nonetheless, I appreciate the insightful thread!'

> > >

> > > This is what the people pissed about her being fired missed. He wasn't trying to tell her how to do her job. He was offering an opinion. One that she could take into the offices and say "Hey can we implement this?" or not want to use it and say "Well that's not the direction we are going but I can see your point". Instead she goes down the "oh a man is telling me how to do my job" road. It just bothers me that people seem to want to defend her in this when if you read through his whole post it seems like he is giving a good idea and seeing if it could be used or not and asking for her feedback. Instead she makes it into a sexism issue.

> >

> > If you want feedback, you ask for it. If you offer feedback without being asked for it, you're an kitten. Period.

> > Try to imagine how it would be receiving feedback for all possible things, that you are fully aware of, on your everyday life without asking it. You all seem to miss this critical point.

>

> Somehow giving feedback is worse than insulting a player base.

> Yep.

>

> What a strange world where feedback is not longer possible. Sometimes I wonder if everyone here has a job.

 

Some of the people here sound like they're on tumbler 24/7 and have no connection to the real world where they'd be laughed at for spouting such nonsense

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > > @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> > > I haven't played Guild Wars 2 in years, so my opinions don't hold much weight. But I do believe that ArenaNet handled this unbelievably poorly by firing the two developers and caving into the fringe mobs of kitten and the alt-right. And yes, I am aware that moderate voices were also part of the mix, but they were few and far in between when compared to the fringes.

> > >

> > > All this does is make the gaming industry realize that if you value your job, never ever interact with your customer base.

> >

> > Alt right? What a hell, why you guys have such a hard on for politics kitten? This have nothing to deal with that, is just a dev that acted extremelly poorly...you allways should interact with your customers, but if you cant even take other people opinions and criticism them you probably shouldnt even be in this business in the first place.

>

> So then you were on Subnautica's side when they fired Simon Chylinski for saying controversial stuff on his personal twitter account?

>

> https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/02/subnautica-dev-fired-over-hateful-statements/

 

Simon who? Subnautica's? What a hell is that? I have no fucking clue of what you talking about, but if he acted like our dev here, them yeah, he deserves to lose his job.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ash.5274" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"nosleepdemon.1368" said:

> > > > > > > > > The vast majority of you have a great deal of growing up to do. I just hope society isn't scuppered by the unreal amount of triggering and thin-skinnedness shown in this thread. I also hope none of you ever get on the chopping block for something you wrote on a web site. Losing your job sucks. Your employer not having your back absolutely sucks. It's not a good thing, a good thing would have been the devs apologising, instead they're out of a job with bills to pay. Anyone who says that's a good thing has never left their mother's basement.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So you should expect your employer to have your back when you make that employer look bad on social media? Really?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For what it's worth I completely agree that losing your job is never a good thing, but they lost their jobs as a direct consequence of their own actions. They have no one to blame but themselves, it really is as simple as that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So you're saying the company you work for controls your **personal** social media presence the minute you include who you work for in your **personal** social media, or write something that happens to be about what you work on? Well, I've decided to enlighten myself and allow people to have a work life and a personal life, two entirely different areas that should almost never encroach on each other, and that what someone says or does on their personal time does not nor ever will reflect on their employer...but I'm in the super minority on this point.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes and yes. You are free to post whatever you like on your personal social media accounts but if the content breaks the code of conduct for your company they have every right to remove you from your position. Turns out consequences exist

> > > > >

> > > > > Interesting how you completely ignored the remainder of my statement only to answer the rhetorical question I posed at the beginning...so let me restate what I said. It's my belief that your employer **does not** have control over what you post on your **personal** social media, regardless of whether or not said employer is listed on your personal social media accounts, and to further clarify, your employer does not need to have your back on what you post, but **neither do they have the right to sensor you**, it's your **personal thoughts and opinions, not the companies**...that's the difference and corporate America(and the World) needs to learn that.

> > > >

> > > > Thats not true at all, twitter isnt personal at all. Its accessible for all people. Furthermore, your points are valid to some degree, there is a line between personal life and work. But if you state in your "personal" social media account that you work for company in the gaming scene you also increase your range drasticly. If she doenst dress herself with being an anet employee she would just be another twitter nobody, nobody would even care to give her any attention at all.

> > > >

> > > > The fact that she willingly connects these two aspects means she also takes a responsibility here. Shes not just a personal twitter account at this moment anymore. This is, like in the comedy scene, or in politics, if you shittalk some of your fans, suppporters or customers (especially in gaming) you gotta pay the consequences.

> > > >

> > > > On topic, i think ANet did the right thing here, proving that they are not just the illusion of teamwork or a "business model" based on the "creating games for the players".

> > >

> > > Did ArenaNet set up that Twitter account for JP...if not then it's personal, regardless of what information you place on it...that is the basis of my entire thought process when it comes to these kind of social media issues. Unless the employer provides you that social media account it doesn't matter to me who or what you list on that account, it's your own personal account and the thoughts on that account belong to you and you alone, they do not reflect on your employer, even if you name that employer on your account. Why is that so hard for everyone to understand...are people so psychologically screwed up they can't separate the person from their job anymore? It happens a lot with athletes too, and politicians...I really don't understand humans anymore, it's like they've locked themselves into this tiny little moment in time and are unwilling to learn and change with the times. Sort of like how GW2 maps are snippets of time.

> >

> > I'm sorry, but this isn't how human society works. Work isn't just a means to earn money. Work also has important social functions such as generating the feeling that you're contributing to the society or the way it forms your identity. Work will always be a part of someones identity and as such, people will always represent their work, no matter if they want or not. If people don't want that, they shouldn't publicly associate themselves with their work. Mrs. Price did though and thus, she also represents her work. It's not anyones fault but her own that she dragged her work into it.

>

> Don't blame it on human society, blame it on human stupidity for not being able to separate work from personal life...my work only applies to me from when I clock in to when I clock out...the rest of the time is my own. Yes, I do act differently at work, I'm not the same person, I do not bring work home with me, I don't even think about once I leave it...it doesn't even define me...I don't even care about it...it's just a means to earn money, if I wanted to contribute to society that would have to be on a public stage like politics or volunteer work. My work has nothing to do with my identity, it's far from my identity...you couldn't guess what I do from knowing me. Ms or Miss Price should be allowed to say anything she wants on her own personal social media, whether she identifies her employer or not, but that's just to 24th Century for most humans to comprehend...one day people will stop caring about what other people do and what others think of them, only then will we as a society be able to evolve beyond petty grievances.

 

She is allowed to say anything she wants. However she is not immune to consequences. Just like we all are held accountable for our actions when our employers learn what we say.

[thruine.8510]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

>

> And I am absolutely with her on this.

>

> "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

>

> Huh how fast the tables can turn

 

Depending on the right to work laws in that state, I know Peter Fries has a case against ArenaNet for wrongful termination and if this is so then perhaps she does also. When an employee signs a contract, its a two way street for both parties. The only things I saw Fries post is that she does receive more unwanted commentary than he does on her work and that she didn't ask for anyone's feedback. Which like it or not, its true. There is no constitutional right to give unwanted feedback. If she hadn't just posted a lengthy amount of information and that poster (I forgotten the name... starts with D) did replay first with a statement that started "I disagree (slightly)" which I saw many on that side completely delete when posting his 'entire' reply for some reason, perhaps her response wouldn't have been so strong. Perhaps it was a bit too strong but its easy to see how it could be taken badly. In any case, the two may no longer have jobs but they're probably not off the payroll just yet.

[Feithlinn.9284]

> She is allowed to say anything she wants. However she is not immune to consequences. Just like we all are held accountable for our actions when our employers learn what we say.

 

Freedom of speech unless your boss finds out. Your employer must be an extremely happy person.

 

 

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

>

> And I am absolutely with her on this.

>

> "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

>

> Huh how fast the tables can turn.

 

She was speaking loudly the whole time. The one time it actually caused a problem was when she attacked her own clients.

Again, and I'm sorry that it is seems like an insane practice for whoever isn't working on the IT field, but it is a golden rule to not attack your customers.

Feedback unwelcome? Delete it.

Burning out? yes, that can totally happen. It's bad, but it can be fixed: Apologize an hour later.

 

Did she do that? No, she kept on going, he stopped way before (even apologized). Even now, there's not a trace of regret in her mind. No regrets in how much pressure this brought to her company.

 

We're all 100% of the time on the clock if we work in IT. Actually no that's not true, there's a way out. Make an alt account/don't associate your company to your private account!

 

Why on EARTH would anyone defend that is beyond me.

 

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"muffi.3964" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > @"Laivine.9308" said:

> > > > @"Loukious.7346" said:

> > > > > @"Twyn.7320" said:

> > > > > This is Deroir's quote: 'But, if instead players were given the option to meaningfully express *their* character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options), then perhaps players would be more invested in the roleplaying aspect of that particular MMORPG. Nonetheless, I appreciate the insightful thread!'

> > > >

> > > > This is what the people pissed about her being fired missed. He wasn't trying to tell her how to do her job. He was offering an opinion. One that she could take into the offices and say "Hey can we implement this?" or not want to use it and say "Well that's not the direction we are going but I can see your point". Instead she goes down the "oh a man is telling me how to do my job" road. It just bothers me that people seem to want to defend her in this when if you read through his whole post it seems like he is giving a good idea and seeing if it could be used or not and asking for her feedback. Instead she makes it into a sexism issue.

> > >

> > > If you want feedback, you ask for it. If you offer feedback without being asked for it, you're an kitten. Period.

> > > Try to imagine how it would be receiving feedback for all possible things, that you are fully aware of, on your everyday life without asking it. You all seem to miss this critical point.

> >

> > Somehow giving feedback is worse than insulting a player base.

> > Yep.

> >

> > What a strange world where feedback is not longer possible. Sometimes I wonder if everyone here has a job.

>

> Some of the people here sound like they're on tumbler 24/7 and have no connection to the real world where they'd be laughed at for spouting such nonsense

 

Never heard of this incident, but, yeah, seems like he deserved to lose it. You sure do make a lot of assumptions about people who disagree with you.

[Ace Kenshader.1253]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > @"Laivine.9308" said:

> > > @"Loukious.7346" said:

> > > > @"Twyn.7320" said:

> > > > This is Deroir's quote: 'But, if instead players were given the option to meaningfully express *their* character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options), then perhaps players would be more invested in the roleplaying aspect of that particular MMORPG. Nonetheless, I appreciate the insightful thread!'

> > >

> > > This is what the people pissed about her being fired missed. He wasn't trying to tell her how to do her job. He was offering an opinion. One that she could take into the offices and say "Hey can we implement this?" or not want to use it and say "Well that's not the direction we are going but I can see your point". Instead she goes down the "oh a man is telling me how to do my job" road. It just bothers me that people seem to want to defend her in this when if you read through his whole post it seems like he is giving a good idea and seeing if it could be used or not and asking for her feedback. Instead she makes it into a sexism issue.

> >

> > If you want feedback, you ask for it. If you offer feedback without being asked for it, you're an kitten. Period.

> > Try to imagine how it would be receiving feedback for all possible things, that you are fully aware of, on your everyday life without asking it. You all seem to miss this critical point.

>

> Somehow giving feedback is worse than insulting a player base.

> Yep.

>

> What a strange world where feedback is not longer possible. Sometimes I wonder if everyone here has a job.

 

That's the simple reality of humanity now, tribal epistemology makes debates impossible as humans and groups now view each other as 'the other' and not to be trusted.

[Digit.1823]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > > > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > > > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

> > >

> > > And I am absolutely with her on this.

> > >

> > > "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

> > >

> > > Huh how fast the tables can turn.

> >

> > Admiring a _certain_ personality trait is one thing.

> >

> > But what she did had _NOTHING_ to do with "willingness to speak truth to power". Whatever the hell that means. She blatantly pulled out the sexism card where there was none when all Deroir ever wanted to do was spark genuinely friendly discussion, continuing to berate Deroir even _AFTER_ the fact he already publicly apologized profoundly and indicating he never intended any harm or insults or whatever. Continuing the drop the f-bomb on Inks after he oh so carefully tried to engage her in a very polite manner (as we know, Inks has been described multiple times now that he's a very chill guy).

> >

> > Oh and again, there's the TotalBiscuit fiasco which has also been pointed out to you several times. But hey, apparently you see nothing wrong with her tweet celebrating his early death at the hands of cancer, so maybe there is no talking to you either and the best course of action is to just ignore you from now on. I swear i cannot possibly imagine the mental gymnastics you are performing to even think what she did was even slightly okay. What is wrong with you...

>

> Oh please, can you drop the TB thing already? He was a terrible person who was not only abusive towards others but actively wished some people to get cancer and die from it as well. The tweet she wrote about him was incredibly mellow considering what could've been said about him. Not being sad about an abusive person leaving this world doesn't make her a monster.

>

> EDIT: ALSO if the TB tweet was so bad as you make it seem to be, why did she never get any backlash from Anet for that? Apparently that wasn't worth firing her over but as soon as a mob was out for blood, they dropped her like a hot potato.

 

Easy, because her tweet got overshadowed by similar responses from a couple of EA hotshots who pretty much went down the same road as JP did when they were talking about TB's untimely passing. And the EA honcho's received the biggest brunt of the backlash about that, so JP at the time was easily overlooked.

 

And yeah...no, just because this TB topic makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean i'm going to drop it. You should have thought about that sooner before getting all giddy over him dying because of cancer. Did it make you feel good that he himself died of cancer after telling people to get it and die? I bet you did feel good you special person you.

 

Anyway, I've already noticed that several people have already pointed out your....unique ways, of looking at things. So there are more people besides me calling you out on your frankly socially backwards ideas and views. I mean, "racism against white men is not a thing"? Like for real? Your detachment from reality suits you poorly, and you shouldn't be so surprised that you are getting the responses you have. Unless you're trolling of course and this is exactly what you wanted, in that case, chapeau! you got me good...

[Ace Kenshader.1253]

> @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> > > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > > > @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> > > > I haven't played Guild Wars 2 in years, so my opinions don't hold much weight. But I do believe that ArenaNet handled this unbelievably poorly by firing the two developers and caving into the fringe mobs of kitten and the alt-right. And yes, I am aware that moderate voices were also part of the mix, but they were few and far in between when compared to the fringes.

> > > >

> > > > All this does is make the gaming industry realize that if you value your job, never ever interact with your customer base.

> > >

> > > Alt right? What a hell, why you guys have such a hard on for politics kitten? This have nothing to deal with that, is just a dev that acted extremelly poorly...you allways should interact with your customers, but if you cant even take other people opinions and criticism them you probably shouldnt even be in this business in the first place.

> >

> > So then you were on Subnautica's side when they fired Simon Chylinski for saying controversial stuff on his personal twitter account?

> >

> > https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/02/subnautica-dev-fired-over-hateful-statements/

>

> Simon who? Subnautica's? What a hell is that? I have no kitten clue of what you talking about, but if he acted like our dev here, them yeah, he deserves to lose his job.

 

Was very big in the gaming world back in February, basically Simon got fired for posting very insensitive and fringe talking points on his twitter. Twitter users subsequently found many questionable statements in Chylinski's Twitter feed, including tweets about immigration claiming "importing random ppl from the 3rd world is also importing 3rd world tier crime rates and IQ."

 

Another tweet mocked a poll on YouTube about gender diversity by referencing attack helicopters, a meme commonly used to make light of transgender issues.

 

Other tweets make light of global pay inequalities between men and women, praise colonialism, or reference "SJW logic." While some of these statements seem to be made at least in part as trolling, it was enough for Unknown Worlds to take action.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > @"Laivine.9308" said:

> > > > @"Loukious.7346" said:

> > > > > @"Twyn.7320" said:

> > > > > This is Deroir's quote: 'But, if instead players were given the option to meaningfully express *their* character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options), then perhaps players would be more invested in the roleplaying aspect of that particular MMORPG. Nonetheless, I appreciate the insightful thread!'

> > > >

> > > > This is what the people pissed about her being fired missed. He wasn't trying to tell her how to do her job. He was offering an opinion. One that she could take into the offices and say "Hey can we implement this?" or not want to use it and say "Well that's not the direction we are going but I can see your point". Instead she goes down the "oh a man is telling me how to do my job" road. It just bothers me that people seem to want to defend her in this when if you read through his whole post it seems like he is giving a good idea and seeing if it could be used or not and asking for her feedback. Instead she makes it into a sexism issue.

> > >

> > > If you want feedback, you ask for it. If you offer feedback without being asked for it, you're an kitten. Period.

> > > Try to imagine how it would be receiving feedback for all possible things, that you are fully aware of, on your everyday life without asking it. You all seem to miss this critical point.

> >

> > Somehow giving feedback is worse than insulting a player base.

> > Yep.

> >

> > What a strange world where feedback is not longer possible. Sometimes I wonder if everyone here has a job.

>

> That's the simple reality of humanity now, tribal epistemology makes debates impossible as humans and groups now view each other as 'the other' and not to be trusted.

 

Let's have an event-week with having Social Awkwardness active everywhere. \o/

[Phosphorite.6192]

> @"Digit.1823" said:

> > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > > > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > > > > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > > > > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

> > > >

> > > > And I am absolutely with her on this.

> > > >

> > > > "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

> > > >

> > > > Huh how fast the tables can turn.

> > >

> > > Admiring a _certain_ personality trait is one thing.

> > >

> > > But what she did had _NOTHING_ to do with "willingness to speak truth to power". Whatever the hell that means. She blatantly pulled out the sexism card where there was none when all Deroir ever wanted to do was spark genuinely friendly discussion, continuing to berate Deroir even _AFTER_ the fact he already publicly apologized profoundly and indicating he never intended any harm or insults or whatever. Continuing the drop the f-bomb on Inks after he oh so carefully tried to engage her in a very polite manner (as we know, Inks has been described multiple times now that he's a very chill guy).

> > >

> > > Oh and again, there's the TotalBiscuit fiasco which has also been pointed out to you several times. But hey, apparently you see nothing wrong with her tweet celebrating his early death at the hands of cancer, so maybe there is no talking to you either and the best course of action is to just ignore you from now on. I swear i cannot possibly imagine the mental gymnastics you are performing to even think what she did was even slightly okay. What is wrong with you...

> >

> > Oh please, can you drop the TB thing already? He was a terrible person who was not only abusive towards others but actively wished some people to get cancer and die from it as well. The tweet she wrote about him was incredibly mellow considering what could've been said about him. Not being sad about an abusive person leaving this world doesn't make her a monster.

> >

> > EDIT: ALSO if the TB tweet was so bad as you make it seem to be, why did she never get any backlash from Anet for that? Apparently that wasn't worth firing her over but as soon as a mob was out for blood, they dropped her like a hot potato.

>

> Easy, because her tweet got overshadowed by similar responses from a couple of EA hotshots who pretty much went down the same road as JP did when they were talking about TB's untimely passing. And the EA honcho's received the biggest brunt of the backlash about that, so JP at the time was easily overlooked.

>

> And yeah...no, just because this TB topic makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean i'm going to drop it. You should have thought about that sooner before getting all giddy over him dying because of cancer. Did it make you feel good that he himself died of cancer after telling people to get it and die? I bet you did feel good you special person you.

>

> Anyway, I've already noticed that several people have already pointed out your....unique ways, of looking at things. So there are more people besides me calling you out on your frankly socially backwards ideas and views. I mean, "racism against white men is not a thing"? Like for real? Your detachment from reality suits you poorly, and you shouldn't be so surprised that you are getting the responses you have. Unless you're trolling of course and this is exactly what you wanted, in that case, chapeau! you got me good...

 

Oh now suddenly I'm the one being judged? Interesting. I never said I rejoiced about TBs death. I didn't even know the guy until I saw condolence posts about him pop up on social media. All I'm saying is I'm not blaming her for not being sorry that an abusive person is gone.

 

Also, yes. Racism against white people is not a thing. I don't care if you disagree, and honestly, I don't care about why you think it is a thing. It shouldn't even have been brought up in the first place, yet someone did. And it wasn't me.

 

I don't care what you think of me. And if you really think I'm trolling, which I am not, why are you still replying to the things I write anyway?

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"thruine.8510" said:

> > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

> >

> > And I am absolutely with her on this.

> >

> > "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

> >

> > Huh how fast the tables can turn

>

> Depending on the right to work laws in that state, I know Peter Fries has a case against ArenaNet for wrongful termination and if this is so then perhaps she does also. When an employee signs a contract, its a two way street for both parties. The only things I saw Fries post is that she does receive more unwanted commentary than he does on her work and that she didn't ask for anyone's feedback. Which like it or not, its true. There is no constitutional right to give unwanted feedback. If she hadn't just posted a lengthy amount of information and that poster (I forgotten the name... starts with D) did replay first with a statement that started "I disagree (slightly)" which I saw many on that side completely delete when posting his 'entire' reply for some reason, perhaps her response wouldn't have been so strong. Perhaps it was a bit too strong but its easy to see how it could be taken badly. In any case, the two may no longer have jobs but they're probably not off the payroll just yet.

 

Peter Fries case is different, as he simply defended a colleague (for all we know).

For Jessica Price, good luck invoking the "constitutional right to give feedback" versus attacking, swearing to clients and causing lots of bad rep to a company.

 

People don't read their contracts enough.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"thruine.8510" said:

> > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

> >

> > And I am absolutely with her on this.

> >

> > "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

> >

> > Huh how fast the tables can turn

>

> Depending on the right to work laws in that state, I know Peter Fries has a case against ArenaNet for wrongful termination and if this is so then perhaps she does also. When an employee signs a contract, its a two way street for both parties. The only things I saw Fries post is that she does receive more unwanted commentary than he does on her work and that she didn't ask for anyone's feedback. Which like it or not, its true. There is no constitutional right to give unwanted feedback. If she hadn't just posted a lengthy amount of information and that poster (I forgotten the name... starts with D) did replay first with a statement that started "I disagree (slightly)" which I saw many on that side completely delete when posting his 'entire' reply for some reason, perhaps her response wouldn't have been so strong. Perhaps it was a bit too strong but its easy to see how it could be taken badly. In any case, the two may no longer have jobs but they're probably not off the payroll just yet.

 

 

At-will employment is a term used in U.S. labor law for contractual relationships in which an employee can be dismissed by an employer for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning, as long as the reason is not illegal.(e.g. firing because of the employee's race)

[UfoCoffee.2084]

Thank you for not allowing people with such horrible attitudes/opinions to operate in your company. Great reply to something that could have turned out really detrimental and embarrassing for the company. Well done!

[Ace Kenshader.1253]

> @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > > > > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > > > > > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > > > > > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

> > > > >

> > > > > And I am absolutely with her on this.

> > > > >

> > > > > "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

> > > > >

> > > > > Huh how fast the tables can turn.

> > > >

> > > > Admiring a _certain_ personality trait is one thing.

> > > >

> > > > But what she did had _NOTHING_ to do with "willingness to speak truth to power". Whatever the hell that means. She blatantly pulled out the sexism card where there was none when all Deroir ever wanted to do was spark genuinely friendly discussion, continuing to berate Deroir even _AFTER_ the fact he already publicly apologized profoundly and indicating he never intended any harm or insults or whatever. Continuing the drop the f-bomb on Inks after he oh so carefully tried to engage her in a very polite manner (as we know, Inks has been described multiple times now that he's a very chill guy).

> > > >

> > > > Oh and again, there's the TotalBiscuit fiasco which has also been pointed out to you several times. But hey, apparently you see nothing wrong with her tweet celebrating his early death at the hands of cancer, so maybe there is no talking to you either and the best course of action is to just ignore you from now on. I swear i cannot possibly imagine the mental gymnastics you are performing to even think what she did was even slightly okay. What is wrong with you...

> > >

> > > Oh please, can you drop the TB thing already? He was a terrible person who was not only abusive towards others but actively wished some people to get cancer and die from it as well. The tweet she wrote about him was incredibly mellow considering what could've been said about him. Not being sad about an abusive person leaving this world doesn't make her a monster.

> > >

> > > EDIT: ALSO if the TB tweet was so bad as you make it seem to be, why did she never get any backlash from Anet for that? Apparently that wasn't worth firing her over but as soon as a mob was out for blood, they dropped her like a hot potato.

> >

> > Easy, because her tweet got overshadowed by similar responses from a couple of EA hotshots who pretty much went down the same road as JP did when they were talking about TB's untimely passing. And the EA honcho's received the biggest brunt of the backlash about that, so JP at the time was easily overlooked.

> >

> > And yeah...no, just because this TB topic makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean i'm going to drop it. You should have thought about that sooner before getting all giddy over him dying because of cancer. Did it make you feel good that he himself died of cancer after telling people to get it and die? I bet you did feel good you special person you.

> >

> > Anyway, I've already noticed that several people have already pointed out your....unique ways, of looking at things. So there are more people besides me calling you out on your frankly socially backwards ideas and views. I mean, "racism against white men is not a thing"? Like for real? Your detachment from reality suits you poorly, and you shouldn't be so surprised that you are getting the responses you have. Unless you're trolling of course and this is exactly what you wanted, in that case, chapeau! you got me good...

>

> Oh now suddenly I'm the one being judged? Interesting. I never said I rejoiced about TBs death. I didn't even know the guy until I saw condolence posts about him pop up on social media. All I'm saying is I'm not blaming her for not being sorry that an abusive person is gone.

>

> Also, yes. Racism against white people is not a thing. I don't care if you disagree, and honestly, I don't care about why you think it is a thing. It shouldn't even have been brought up in the first place, yet someone did. And it wasn't me.

>

> I don't care what you think of me. And if you really think I'm trolling, which I am not, why are you still replying to the things I write anyway?

 

Well, technically racism against white people is a thing, just not in white majority and plurality countries like the US and Western nations. In Africa on the other hand, where white people are the minority, it is very much a thing. Just look at Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe.

 

I agree with the rest of your comment though, just felt the need to point that out.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > > > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > > > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > > > > > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > > > > > > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > > > > > > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And I am absolutely with her on this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Huh how fast the tables can turn.

> > > > >

> > > > > Admiring a _certain_ personality trait is one thing.

> > > > >

> > > > > But what she did had _NOTHING_ to do with "willingness to speak truth to power". Whatever the hell that means. She blatantly pulled out the sexism card where there was none when all Deroir ever wanted to do was spark genuinely friendly discussion, continuing to berate Deroir even _AFTER_ the fact he already publicly apologized profoundly and indicating he never intended any harm or insults or whatever. Continuing the drop the f-bomb on Inks after he oh so carefully tried to engage her in a very polite manner (as we know, Inks has been described multiple times now that he's a very chill guy).

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh and again, there's the TotalBiscuit fiasco which has also been pointed out to you several times. But hey, apparently you see nothing wrong with her tweet celebrating his early death at the hands of cancer, so maybe there is no talking to you either and the best course of action is to just ignore you from now on. I swear i cannot possibly imagine the mental gymnastics you are performing to even think what she did was even slightly okay. What is wrong with you...

> > > >

> > > > Oh please, can you drop the TB thing already? He was a terrible person who was not only abusive towards others but actively wished some people to get cancer and die from it as well. The tweet she wrote about him was incredibly mellow considering what could've been said about him. Not being sad about an abusive person leaving this world doesn't make her a monster.

> > > >

> > > > EDIT: ALSO if the TB tweet was so bad as you make it seem to be, why did she never get any backlash from Anet for that? Apparently that wasn't worth firing her over but as soon as a mob was out for blood, they dropped her like a hot potato.

> > >

> > > Easy, because her tweet got overshadowed by similar responses from a couple of EA hotshots who pretty much went down the same road as JP did when they were talking about TB's untimely passing. And the EA honcho's received the biggest brunt of the backlash about that, so JP at the time was easily overlooked.

> > >

> > > And yeah...no, just because this TB topic makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean i'm going to drop it. You should have thought about that sooner before getting all giddy over him dying because of cancer. Did it make you feel good that he himself died of cancer after telling people to get it and die? I bet you did feel good you special person you.

> > >

> > > Anyway, I've already noticed that several people have already pointed out your....unique ways, of looking at things. So there are more people besides me calling you out on your frankly socially backwards ideas and views. I mean, "racism against white men is not a thing"? Like for real? Your detachment from reality suits you poorly, and you shouldn't be so surprised that you are getting the responses you have. Unless you're trolling of course and this is exactly what you wanted, in that case, chapeau! you got me good...

> >

> > Oh now suddenly I'm the one being judged? Interesting. I never said I rejoiced about TBs death. I didn't even know the guy until I saw condolence posts about him pop up on social media. All I'm saying is I'm not blaming her for not being sorry that an abusive person is gone.

> >

> > Also, yes. Racism against white people is not a thing. I don't care if you disagree, and honestly, I don't care about why you think it is a thing. It shouldn't even have been brought up in the first place, yet someone did. And it wasn't me.

> >

> > I don't care what you think of me. And if you really think I'm trolling, which I am not, why are you still replying to the things I write anyway?

>

> Well, technically racism against white people is a thing, just not in white majority and plurality countries like the US and Western nations. In Africa on the other hand, where white people are the minority, it is very much a thing. Just look at Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe.

>

> I agree with the rest of your comment though, just felt the need to point that out.

 

Wasnt he the guy who kicked out all the white farmers in his country, which then ended up putting his country into a massive famine?

[Ace Kenshader.1253]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > > > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > > > > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > > > > > > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > > > > > > > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > > > > > > > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And I am absolutely with her on this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Huh how fast the tables can turn.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Admiring a _certain_ personality trait is one thing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But what she did had _NOTHING_ to do with "willingness to speak truth to power". Whatever the hell that means. She blatantly pulled out the sexism card where there was none when all Deroir ever wanted to do was spark genuinely friendly discussion, continuing to berate Deroir even _AFTER_ the fact he already publicly apologized profoundly and indicating he never intended any harm or insults or whatever. Continuing the drop the f-bomb on Inks after he oh so carefully tried to engage her in a very polite manner (as we know, Inks has been described multiple times now that he's a very chill guy).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh and again, there's the TotalBiscuit fiasco which has also been pointed out to you several times. But hey, apparently you see nothing wrong with her tweet celebrating his early death at the hands of cancer, so maybe there is no talking to you either and the best course of action is to just ignore you from now on. I swear i cannot possibly imagine the mental gymnastics you are performing to even think what she did was even slightly okay. What is wrong with you...

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh please, can you drop the TB thing already? He was a terrible person who was not only abusive towards others but actively wished some people to get cancer and die from it as well. The tweet she wrote about him was incredibly mellow considering what could've been said about him. Not being sad about an abusive person leaving this world doesn't make her a monster.

> > > > >

> > > > > EDIT: ALSO if the TB tweet was so bad as you make it seem to be, why did she never get any backlash from Anet for that? Apparently that wasn't worth firing her over but as soon as a mob was out for blood, they dropped her like a hot potato.

> > > >

> > > > Easy, because her tweet got overshadowed by similar responses from a couple of EA hotshots who pretty much went down the same road as JP did when they were talking about TB's untimely passing. And the EA honcho's received the biggest brunt of the backlash about that, so JP at the time was easily overlooked.

> > > >

> > > > And yeah...no, just because this TB topic makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean i'm going to drop it. You should have thought about that sooner before getting all giddy over him dying because of cancer. Did it make you feel good that he himself died of cancer after telling people to get it and die? I bet you did feel good you special person you.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, I've already noticed that several people have already pointed out your....unique ways, of looking at things. So there are more people besides me calling you out on your frankly socially backwards ideas and views. I mean, "racism against white men is not a thing"? Like for real? Your detachment from reality suits you poorly, and you shouldn't be so surprised that you are getting the responses you have. Unless you're trolling of course and this is exactly what you wanted, in that case, chapeau! you got me good...

> > >

> > > Oh now suddenly I'm the one being judged? Interesting. I never said I rejoiced about TBs death. I didn't even know the guy until I saw condolence posts about him pop up on social media. All I'm saying is I'm not blaming her for not being sorry that an abusive person is gone.

> > >

> > > Also, yes. Racism against white people is not a thing. I don't care if you disagree, and honestly, I don't care about why you think it is a thing. It shouldn't even have been brought up in the first place, yet someone did. And it wasn't me.

> > >

> > > I don't care what you think of me. And if you really think I'm trolling, which I am not, why are you still replying to the things I write anyway?

> >

> > Well, technically racism against white people is a thing, just not in white majority and plurality countries like the US and Western nations. In Africa on the other hand, where white people are the minority, it is very much a thing. Just look at Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe.

> >

> > I agree with the rest of your comment though, just felt the need to point that out.

>

> Wasnt he the guy who kicked out all the white farmers in his country, which then ended up putting his country into a massive famine?

 

Oh yeah. That's the guy.

[Gehenna.3625]

People who support what these two people did are not in their right mind. Their response to a respectful criticism was vicious and uncalled for and pulling the gender card is a discredit to everyone who actually suffers from gender bias.

 

Add to that the fact that there are many MMOs where fans will tell you that they have fond memories of characters they found very much compelling and you'll see that her stance that it's basically impossible to do so in MMOs and CRPGs was just total bs to begin with. So he had every reason to question that and she just got arrogant and vicious and did her worst.

 

Well, when you speak in anger, you'll make the best speech you'll ever regret. I can't blame ArenaNet for not finding this behavior acceptable.

 

[thruine.8510]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

>

> Yes, it absolutely is. Prejuduce + power is a stipulative redefinition of the word racism to fit a political agenda where white people are always oppressors and minorities are always victims, which is absolutely not how modern society works, and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. The word racism has been used for eons to refer to any form of racial prejudice, which non-whites absolutely can and often do possess, and it's every bit as toxic as white racism.

 

Do you have any examples? I don't believe in racism towards whites exist either. In theory, yes it could which seems to be what you're offering. But lots of theories can exist and you are right. If you have power over someone and exercise it against them based on race its racism regardless of color. In theory. Its not what white people are always the oppressors but that there are plenty examples of this being the case since the time of slavery. Its been a systematic problem since to the point in 2018 we are finally getting to a point where its not a prevalent as it once was. I'm sure it still exists but now its in bad taste which hasn't been the case not that long ago. But still, we need to see racism against whites. And even then its probably never going to measure up to the racism FROM whites we have way to many examples of.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"thruine.8510" said:

> > @"Phosphorite.6192" said:

> > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17541318/guild-wars-arenanet-jessica-price-peter-fries-fired-reddit

> > > And she learned nothing. Good riddance, at first I felt bad about someone losing their job, but blaming everyone but herself and pulling the sexism card again. I still feel bad for Peter, I feel he was collateral damage. Hopefuly anet vets people better with their social media BEFORE they get hired. I know hine sight is 20/20 but she had questional things on Twitter before she was hired. Peter might still have a job if they held that standard.

> > > It reminds me a teacher who got fired for supporting segregation on facebook, and another district hire her and found out about it afterwards and fired her again. The first istance was the teachers fault, the second was district failing to do the proper vetting.

> >

> > And I am absolutely with her on this.

> >

> > "Furthermore, ArenaNet was not only aware of her outspoken approach to discussing similar issues on social media but encouraging of it. During a job interview with the company, she had told them she was “loud about these issues on social media and had no intention of shutting up. They reassured me that they ‘admired [my] willingness to speak truth to power.’”"

> >

> > Huh how fast the tables can turn

>

> There is no constitutional right to give unwanted feedback. If she hadn't just posted a lengthy amount of information and that poster (I forgotten the name... starts with D) did replay first with a statement that started "I disagree (slightly)" which I saw many on that side completely delete when posting his 'entire' reply for some reason, perhaps her response wouldn't have been so strong. Perhaps it was a bit too strong but its easy to see how it could be taken badly. In any case, the two may no longer have jobs but they're probably not off the payroll just yet.

 

Twitter.com:

 

Follow your interests.

 

Hear what people are talking about.

 

**Join the conversation.**

 

When your tweets have a reply balloon button beneath them, you implicitly open the door for well over 7 billion people to offer feedback. If that's not what you want, find another way to put your thoughts online.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"thruine.8510" said:

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> >

> > Yes, it absolutely is. Prejuduce + power is a stipulative redefinition of the word racism to fit a political agenda where white people are always oppressors and minorities are always victims, which is absolutely not how modern society works, and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. The word racism has been used for eons to refer to any form of racial prejudice, which non-whites absolutely can and often do possess, and it's every bit as toxic as white racism.

>

> Do you have any examples? I don't believe in racism towards whites exist either. In theory, yes it could which seems to be what you're offering. But lots of theories can exist and you are right. If you have power over someone and exercise it against them based on race its racism regardless of color. In theory. Its not what white people are always the oppressors but that there are plenty examples of this being the case since the time of slavery. Its been a systematic problem since to the point in 2018 we are finally getting to a point where its not a prevalent as it once was. I'm sure it still exists but now its in bad taste which hasn't been the case not that long ago. But still, we need to see racism against whites. And even then its probably never going to measure up to the racism FROM whites we have way to many examples of.

 

There were several fields in which "whites" had to prove themselves first, rap-music being a major example.

[Dante.1763]

 

> @"thruine.8510" said:

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> >

> > Yes, it absolutely is. Prejuduce + power is a stipulative redefinition of the word racism to fit a political agenda where white people are always oppressors and minorities are always victims, which is absolutely not how modern society works, and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. The word racism has been used for eons to refer to any form of racial prejudice, which non-whites absolutely can and often do possess, and it's every bit as toxic as white racism.

>

> Do you have any examples? I don't believe in racism towards whites exist either. In theory, yes it could which seems to be what you're offering. But lots of theories can exist and you are right. If you have power over someone and exercise it against them based on race its racism regardless of color. In theory. Its not what white people are always the oppressors but that there are plenty examples of this being the case since the time of slavery. Its been a systematic problem since to the point in 2018 we are finally getting to a point where its not a prevalent as it once was. I'm sure it still exists but now its in bad taste which hasn't been the case not that long ago. But still, we need to see racism against whites. And even then its probably never going to measure up to the racism FROM whites we have way to many examples of.

 

here you go

 

 

> @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

 

>

> Well, technically racism against white people is a thing, just not in white majority and plurality countries like the US and Western nations. In Africa on the other hand, where white people are the minority, it is very much a thing. Just look at Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe.

>

> I agree with the rest of your comment though, just felt the need to point that out.

 

just one. But in countries where white people are minorities it wouldnt surprise me at all if it was a very real thing.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Ace Kenshader.1253" said:

> > I haven't played Guild Wars 2 in years, so my opinions don't hold much weight. But I do believe that ArenaNet handled this unbelievably poorly by firing the two developers and caving into the fringe mobs of kitten and the alt-right. And yes, I am aware that moderate voices were also part of the mix, but they were few and far in between when compared to the fringes.

> >

> > All this does is make the gaming industry realize that if you value your job, never ever interact with your customer base.

>

> I don't know if you've read my comments, but in my opinion, ArenaNets actions are perfectly justified. It's just common sense, really. It's not about someones political views. Hell, I'd be happy if good old Bernie would win the next election.

>

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ash.5274" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"nosleepdemon.1368" said:

> > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of you have a great deal of growing up to do. I just hope society isn't scuppered by the unreal amount of triggering and thin-skinnedness shown in this thread. I also hope none of you ever get on the chopping block for something you wrote on a web site. Losing your job sucks. Your employer not having your back absolutely sucks. It's not a good thing, a good thing would have been the devs apologising, instead they're out of a job with bills to pay. Anyone who says that's a good thing has never left their mother's basement.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > So you should expect your employer to have your back when you make that employer look bad on social media? Really?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > For what it's worth I completely agree that losing your job is never a good thing, but they lost their jobs as a direct consequence of their own actions. They have no one to blame but themselves, it really is as simple as that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So you're saying the company you work for controls your **personal** social media presence the minute you include who you work for in your **personal** social media, or write something that happens to be about what you work on? Well, I've decided to enlighten myself and allow people to have a work life and a personal life, two entirely different areas that should almost never encroach on each other, and that what someone says or does on their personal time does not nor ever will reflect on their employer...but I'm in the super minority on this point.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes and yes. You are free to post whatever you like on your personal social media accounts but if the content breaks the code of conduct for your company they have every right to remove you from your position. Turns out consequences exist

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Interesting how you completely ignored the remainder of my statement only to answer the rhetorical question I posed at the beginning...so let me restate what I said. It's my belief that your employer **does not** have control over what you post on your **personal** social media, regardless of whether or not said employer is listed on your personal social media accounts, and to further clarify, your employer does not need to have your back on what you post, but **neither do they have the right to sensor you**, it's your **personal thoughts and opinions, not the companies**...that's the difference and corporate America(and the World) needs to learn that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thats not true at all, twitter isnt personal at all. Its accessible for all people. Furthermore, your points are valid to some degree, there is a line between personal life and work. But if you state in your "personal" social media account that you work for company in the gaming scene you also increase your range drasticly. If she doenst dress herself with being an anet employee she would just be another twitter nobody, nobody would even care to give her any attention at all.

> > > > >

> > > > > The fact that she willingly connects these two aspects means she also takes a responsibility here. Shes not just a personal twitter account at this moment anymore. This is, like in the comedy scene, or in politics, if you shittalk some of your fans, suppporters or customers (especially in gaming) you gotta pay the consequences.

> > > > >

> > > > > On topic, i think ANet did the right thing here, proving that they are not just the illusion of teamwork or a "business model" based on the "creating games for the players".

> > > >

> > > > Did ArenaNet set up that Twitter account for JP...if not then it's personal, regardless of what information you place on it...that is the basis of my entire thought process when it comes to these kind of social media issues. Unless the employer provides you that social media account it doesn't matter to me who or what you list on that account, it's your own personal account and the thoughts on that account belong to you and you alone, they do not reflect on your employer, even if you name that employer on your account. Why is that so hard for everyone to understand...are people so psychologically screwed up they can't separate the person from their job anymore? It happens a lot with athletes too, and politicians...I really don't understand humans anymore, it's like they've locked themselves into this tiny little moment in time and are unwilling to learn and change with the times. Sort of like how GW2 maps are snippets of time.

> > >

> > > I'm sorry, but this isn't how human society works. Work isn't just a means to earn money. Work also has important social functions such as generating the feeling that you're contributing to the society or the way it forms your identity. Work will always be a part of someones identity and as such, people will always represent their work, no matter if they want or not. If people don't want that, they shouldn't publicly associate themselves with their work. Mrs. Price did though and thus, she also represents her work. It's not anyones fault but her own that she dragged her work into it.

> >

> > Don't blame it on human society, blame it on human stupidity for not being able to separate work from personal life...my work only applies to me from when I clock in to when I clock out...the rest of the time is my own. Yes, I do act differently at work, I'm not the same person, I do not bring work home with me, I don't even think about once I leave it...it doesn't even define me...I don't even care about it...it's just a means to earn money, if I wanted to contribute to society that would have to be on a public stage like politics or volunteer work. My work has nothing to do with my identity, it's far from my identity...you couldn't guess what I do from knowing me. Ms or Miss Price should be allowed to say anything she wants on her own personal social media, whether she identifies her employer or not, but that's just to 24th Century for most humans to comprehend...one day people will stop caring about what other people do and what others think of them, only then will we as a society be able to evolve beyond petty grievances.

>

> I don't blame it on human society. It's also not human "stupidity". It's how life works. When I have a meeting in office with one of my customers. Do you truly think it reflects well on my company when I meet that customer after work and insult him? That customer will most likely quit being my customer and may even tell other people that I'm not really professional. In this case, Mrs. Price especially took her work over to her spare time. She does represent her company when she's identifying herself with said company and talks about work in-depth. She could have chosen not to - it's her choice and thus, her responsibility. ...and if you truly think that we as society will evolve by ignoring sexistic insults... Chapeau!

>

 

Let me put it this way, to use your own example...smart people, people that have common sense(no one does) would know the difference between talking to someone at a business meeting and then meeting them for dinner on their own time. Of course, that also presumes you're meeting that person outside of work because you're friends, if you're not, then there's no sane reason to meet outside of work. Having said that, as a friend you can insult me all you want, it's what friends do...as long as you don't insult me during a work meeting I could care less what you say in a personal meeting, now is my position more clear to you.

 

Companies should be the same way, and be demonstrably clear about with customers/community, that allows your employees to be themselves and not some corporate robot.

 

Also, I didn't specify ignoring sexist insults, I said ignore everything that everyone else says and thinks about you...the only persons opinion of you that really matters is you, once everyone gets to that point you'll see a much improved world. We are not our brothers keepers...be responsible for yourself and only yourself, of course, parents need to teach their children that, so it will never happen.