Ephemiel.5694 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Dragon.4032" said: > > @"Mike O Brien.4613" said: > > Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company. > > > > I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you. > > > > Mo > > You have done poorly by firing the two employees who had contributed into making this game possible. It was rash, inappropriate and one sided. Clearly ArenaNet failed to take in considerations whatever that might have been upsetting for Jessica in her work environment. The consequence of this insensitive decision will likely come to affect the game community. I didn't respect your manner in handling this situation. JP was only a writer for less than a year, what are you talking about? Also, REALLY? You have the guts to say that ANet is to blame for not taking in considerations? DO YOU KNOW WHO SHE IS? Do you know what she has said? What the heck is this obsession with defending that woman? She's a monster that's happy that a man died of cancer, she's an insane social justice berserker that drops the "sexist" card every single time someone realizes she made a mistake or has an opinion different to hers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > Don't worry, the UK is working on that. lol > > > > > > Great so now you agree with me? > > It's not a good idea for law to be punishing people based upon feelings. Because the law should be objective, not subjective. However in this case, we can look at objective and see clearly what was wrong. > > But that's precisely the point. Was what they did illegal? If not why are they getting fired for it? Because it hurt someone's feelings which is why they made a reddit thread about it and other people went there and agreed with it. You have to self-censor yourself if you want to keep your job, then? The letter of the law doesn't matter in the corporate world, friend. Companies have specific policies on how to engage with customers, partners, how to act, and establish criteria when making political statements. What JP said, in the context of employment, was unreasonable. It is not "illegal" to be bigoted. But it is wrong. And as such no company permits their employees to stand by it. The logic is the same applied to people mouthing off horrible things about other subsets of people or marginalized groups; just because it is "legal" to say, does not mean it is tolerated, and it is absolutely unprofessional and not a view endorsed by a company whose name got sucked into the mix. It is this reason why people get suspended from the game and related services for saying such things as well. If you look through JP's twitter history, it is awful. Not just the victim behavior, not just laughing at dead people, but she spouted downright racist things against minorities and people from other countries; to be quite honest, I'm more taken aback that she wasn't fired sooner for that behavior alone. Peter Fries... I know too little info on for me to comment. A lot of his tweets were deleted. Really, though, he shouldn't have backed up the behavior or stood by someone like JP. Women like her are a blight to the feminist movement in pursuit of equality, for she leeches the attention away from people who are being seriously wronged, and removes legitimacy from their claims. The whole thing is just sad. There are no winners here. People who are happy need to sit down, shut up, and set aside their pride because people lost their jobs and some real pieces of trash are relishing in this ordeal. People who are outraged need to be more objective and rational and realize how damaging to ANet and our community JP was and would continue to be. My hat's off to the lovely people at ANet who've stayed quiet in this turmoil. Let's get back to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"DiabolicalHamSandwich.8756" said: > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > Don't worry, the UK is working on that. lol > > > > > > > > Great so now you agree with me? > > > It's not a good idea for law to be punishing people based upon feelings. Because the law should be objective, not subjective. However in this case, we can look at objective and see clearly what was wrong. > > > > But that's precisely the point. Was what they did illegal? If not why are they getting fired for it? Because it hurt someone's feelings which is why they made a reddit thread about it and other people went there and agreed with it. You have to self-censor yourself if you want to keep your job, then? > > Illegal? I understand who you are replying to, and what they said, but the situation still had nothing to do with actual law. They were employees acting like kitten. More so Price since from what I saw of the other guy, crap was tame. I don't know if you know how businesses work, but normally you don't want employees attacking your fans/customers unprovoked. Also censor yourself? no. Just don't act like an kitten for no reason in this case. Unless the person is naturally an kitten, then yes, self-censor. Yeah but they weren't acting as employees. Remember those were their personal accounts. My point isn't that she wasn't acting noxious, my point is that it should have no bearing on her employment. And also if someone didn't put it on reddit, most people wouldn't be offended by it because they wouldn't have known about it. Because what is said between individuals should sometimes just stay between individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loukious.7346 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > Imagine a store clerk in a time before internet where they yell to a customer: "I am happy your son died from cancer". > > > > What would happen? Would the manager go and say "I respect your view. One of that boys friend said mean things, and her son did not do enough to control his friends". > > Yeah now imagine an off clock store clerk doing that in front of their own house. Which is closer to what happened than what you pointed out. Very VERY poor analogy. If it was a private twitter (like locked down, only people she allowed to see would see) then I would agree with the own house idea. BUT it was a public twitter, with her employers name on it. It's more akin to the crazy Burger King woman (the one that destroyed property and assaulted the pro-life individuals, in I think Cleveland). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephemiel.5694 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > You're acting like she's an innocent princess. > > As long as she's doing her job, I don't give a kitten. What is this corporation supposed to be? Democracy in the ancient Athens, when people could vote to exile someone each year? Ah, so in your opinion, they could pretty much do mass genocide, but hey, they're doing their job so you won't care. Yet another person that blindly defends her and knows nothing about how companies or businesses work. If you really think they acted solely because of the community's backlash, then you need a bit of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Males can offer suggestions to males. Females can offer suggestions to males. Females can offer suggestions to females. MALES MOST CERTAINLY CANNOT OFFER SUGGESTIONS TO FEMALES! This type of thinking is what is toxic. Deroir offered up a differing opinion in a polite, respectful manner and got flamed for it simply because he was male. I am glad Mike O'Brien supported civil free speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyraven.4258 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I just don't get the whole Peter did nothing wrong bit........ At best he supported a bad actor and planted the Arenanet flag in front of both of them which is a standard corporate no no. At worst he proved himself an arrogant tool for the way he talked down to a true fan and GW2 partner who was gushing about how much he thought Jessica rocked just the day before. And the obvious fake gaming news (Lordy I thought I would never utter those words) is spinning this for their own messed up agenda and sending their own mobs to do exactly what they are crying over. Honestly....folks keep defending the indefensible, your extremism and non rationality is literally creating more GG supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loli Ruri.8307 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > @"DiabolicalHamSandwich.8756" said: > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > > Don't worry, the UK is working on that. lol > > > > > > > > > > Great so now you agree with me? > > > > It's not a good idea for law to be punishing people based upon feelings. Because the law should be objective, not subjective. However in this case, we can look at objective and see clearly what was wrong. > > > > > > But that's precisely the point. Was what they did illegal? If not why are they getting fired for it? Because it hurt someone's feelings which is why they made a reddit thread about it and other people went there and agreed with it. You have to self-censor yourself if you want to keep your job, then? > > > > Illegal? I understand who you are replying to, and what they said, but the situation still had nothing to do with actual law. They were employees acting like kitten. More so Price since from what I saw of the other guy, crap was tame. I don't know if you know how businesses work, but normally you don't want employees attacking your fans/customers unprovoked. Also censor yourself? no. Just don't act like an kitten for no reason in this case. Unless the person is naturally an kitten, then yes, self-censor. > > Yeah but they weren't acting as employees. Remember those were their personal accounts. My point isn't that she wasn't acting noxious, my point is that it should have no bearing on her employment. And also if someone didn't put it on reddit, most people wouldn't be offended by it because they wouldn't have known about it. Because what is said between individuals should sometimes just stay between individuals. They had the Anet tags on their accounts, and would even talk about the company and the game development on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > Don't worry, the UK is working on that. lol > > > > > > > > Great so now you agree with me? > > > It's not a good idea for law to be punishing people based upon feelings. Because the law should be objective, not subjective. However in this case, we can look at objective and see clearly what was wrong. > > > > But that's precisely the point. Was what they did illegal? If not why are they getting fired for it? Because it hurt someone's feelings which is why they made a reddit thread about it and other people went there and agreed with it. You have to self-censor yourself if you want to keep your job, then? > > The letter of the law doesn't matter in the corporate world, friend. Companies have specific policies on how to engage with customers, partners, how to act, and establish criteria when making political statements. > > What JP said, in the context of employment, was unreasonable. It is not "illegal" to be bigoted. But it is wrong. And as such no company permits their employees to stand by it. The logic is the same applied to people mouthing off horrible things about other subsets of people or marginalized groups; just because it is "legal" to say, does not mean it is tolerated, and it is absolutely unprofessional and not a view endorsed by a company whose name got sucked into the mix. It is this reason why people get suspended from the game and related services for saying such things as well. > > If you look through JP's twitter history, it is awful. Not just the victim behavior, not just laughing at dead people, but she spouted downright racist things against minorities and people from other countries; to be quite honest, I'm more taken aback that she wasn't fired sooner for that behavior alone. Peter Fries... I know too little info on for me to comment. A lot of his tweets were deleted. Really, though, he shouldn't have backed up the behavior or stood by someone like JP. Women like her are a blight to the feminist movement in pursuit of equality, for she leeches the attention away from people who are being seriously wronged, and removes legitimacy from their claims. > > The whole thing is just sad. There are no winners here. People who are happy need to sit down, shut up, and set aside their pride because people lost their jobs and some real pieces of trash are relishing in this ordeal. People who are outraged need to be more objective and rational and realize how damaging to ANet and our community JP was and would continue to be. > > My hat's off to the lovely people at ANet who've stayed quiet in this turmoil. Let's get back to the game. I agree, mostly. The problem here is that you basically can't talk freely on your personal account if you're employed. You'd have to go anonymous. Also why wasn't she fired ages ago, if her twitter is a kitten den? Because someone took to reddit and posted it there and it gained "popularity". That's why I blame some members of the community getting offended over it for the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Loukious.7346" said: > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > Imagine a store clerk in a time before internet where they yell to a customer: "I am happy your son died from cancer". > > > > > > What would happen? Would the manager go and say "I respect your view. One of that boys friend said mean things, and her son did not do enough to control his friends". > > > > Yeah now imagine an off clock store clerk doing that in front of their own house. Which is closer to what happened than what you pointed out. > > Very VERY poor analogy. If it was a private twitter (like locked down, only people she allowed to see would see) then I would agree with the own house idea. BUT it was a public twitter, with her employers name on it. It's more akin to the crazy Burger King woman (the one that destroyed property and assaulted the pro-life individuals, in I think Cleveland). That's why I said in front of the house. It's like it gathered a crowd over time and someone of the crowd then posted it all over town until the manager had to fire them. Also please don't politicize it with putting in unnecessary data like "pro-life individuals" if just "individuals" would suffice if you're making a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walhalla.5473 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > What the heck is this obsession with defending that woman? She's a monster that's happy that a man died of cancer, she's an insane kitten that drops the "sexist" card every single time someone realizes she made a mistake or has an opinion different to hers. You know what really confuses me? The majority of the posts critizising Anet for firing the devs are just about JP, most of them just don't give a damn about Peter Fries. If one of those 2 devs need to be defended than its Peter. He chose to defend his coworker and did it very poorly, probably because he didn't really know what was going on, which ended doing more harm but I can understand why he did it. But as I sad in previous posts, I can totally understand Anet for their step. I don't understand why people now try to paint this decision as sexist, defend JP completely ( have they even read what she wrote? ) and forget about Fries at all. Its like... everything is about her... she is the victim etc... JP now works to make people celebrate for her termination due to how unreasonable she is and what she tries to do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > > You're acting like she's an innocent princess. > > > > As long as she's doing her job, I don't give a kitten. What is this corporation supposed to be? Democracy in the ancient Athens, when people could vote to exile someone each year? > > Ah, so in your opinion, they could pretty much do mass genocide, but hey, they're doing their job so you won't care. Yet another person that blindly defends her and knows nothing about how companies or businesses work. If you really think they acted solely because of the community's backlash, then you need a bit of help. Yeah but they're not doing mass genocide, are they, so don't straw man this, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loli Ruri.8307 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > > > > You're acting like she's an innocent princess. > > > > > > As long as she's doing her job, I don't give a kitten. What is this corporation supposed to be? Democracy in the ancient Athens, when people could vote to exile someone each year? > > > > Ah, so in your opinion, they could pretty much do mass genocide, but hey, they're doing their job so you won't care. Yet another person that blindly defends her and knows nothing about how companies or businesses work. If you really think they acted solely because of the community's backlash, then you need a bit of help. > > Yeah but they're not doing mass genocide, are they, so don't straw man this, please. It's an illustration, not a strawman. And no illustration is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loukious.7346 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > @"Loukious.7346" said: > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > > Imagine a store clerk in a time before internet where they yell to a customer: "I am happy your son died from cancer". > > > > > > > > What would happen? Would the manager go and say "I respect your view. One of that boys friend said mean things, and her son did not do enough to control his friends". > > > > > > Yeah now imagine an off clock store clerk doing that in front of their own house. Which is closer to what happened than what you pointed out. > > > > Very VERY poor analogy. If it was a private twitter (like locked down, only people she allowed to see would see) then I would agree with the own house idea. BUT it was a public twitter, with her employers name on it. It's more akin to the crazy Burger King woman (the one that destroyed property and assaulted the pro-life individuals, in I think Cleveland). > > That's why I said in front of the house. It's like it gathered a crowd over time and someone of the crowd then posted it all over town until the manager had to fire them. Also please don't politicize it with putting in unnecessary data like "pro-life individuals" if just "individuals" would suffice if you're making a point. It was NOT "in front" of her house though, it was an open page that allowed anyone to step into the conversation. So it was not a private one on one conversation that was between two people and someone saw a fight and called all the neighbors. It was more of a fight on a sidewalk that people came across. Once more you miss the whole idea of an OPEN vs a CLOSED page. I was using a reference from a video and thought if you wanted to see how in fact this was an PERFECT analogy then you could look it up yourself. So in fact it is necessary data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruine.8510 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I woke this morning and noticed a new Wooden Potatoes video on this subject and was intrigued by the stuff he revealed, to me at least, from Kate Welsh and Angel McCoy. Having gone back through old GW2 videos these past months, I had come to learn of them. I really enjoyed Points of Interest with Kate and thought they were absolute fools for letting someone like that go as she made things sound so much better than I may have. In any event, their messages left me thinking, is there something wrong behind the scenes at ArenaNet? I had only researched Kate's reasons for leaving because of the PoI show number 5 missing from YouTube. Just thought at the time how unfortunate she had left and how odd to just take off without another offer already on the table. Was that something to do with being in front of the public? At any rate, I lost interest in the show afterwards as I was playing those chapters and watching the show sort of like going into a time machine. While Ruby is nice enough she's a bit bland to take at the same time of having a bland time in game too. I don't think Jessica Price is a horrible person as some have said. Certainly not garbage as some have. I said way earlier that I rarely offer feedback uncalled for because I just assume they aren't interested in what I think all of the time. Obviously that is the case. That's okay. Murders are horrible people. She's just not a likable person. But like one of the two former female developers said, maybe she got tired of feeling she had to be customer service or something along those lines. At any rate, normally people aren't horrible for not liking or respecting you on the internet. I think she went overboard but I think everyone else aghast at her also did. She doesn't have to like you online. Of course one could say that MO thinks she does but I've never gotten the feeling he always liked us all the time either so there you go. Social media can be a great thing. But its also has a very terrible side to it that I'm not sure its worth all the good it can bring. Its a bit like being at a concert. When you there in the crowd and everyone dancing and listening to the music, we're all one community. But as soon as that mob of people having a good time stop focusing on the music, like in the parking lot, is when all the ugliness of humanity can happen. Social media is inviting people to come have a concert over a game, movie, what have you but there are too many that just can't wait to get out into the parking lot. Waiting for that one person to bump into you, like Denoir did with JP and then like JP did herself, to just stop the music and burn the hall down. Me personally, I think I'll be extending my vacation from GW2. I'm a bit tired of it being all I've been playing and there are other games to spend money on. Besides, I probably blew my spending budget on this last Steam sale. But I think the company has some things to sort out. Regardless if intended or not, its apparently some in the community are feeling marginalize. While we might not understand why because clearly someone toxic butted head with someone from the community and they are gone, its not going to change their feelings just like that. We all bring our own bias to everything. As we read it, as we watch it, as we experience it. Just like whenever I call up AT&T most women push back at me while most men who answer do not. I've often wonder are they just hiring women with chips on their shoulders or is there something in the way I say things that bristle them. Like for almost always if a woman operator refers to me as "Hun" things seem to go smoother. So, I think its me but I don't know. And sure, she probably shouldn't do that but I don't mind and at the same time I know the exchange would be totally different if our sexes were reversed. What I'm trying to get at is I have to call up AT&T too damn much! And that we can't always tell how we are perceived by others or have any control over it. My intentions don't matter. I think JP probably needs to work on herself but I also think maybe she's lashing out for very reasonable reasons. I don't know but I suspect we will see more of this type stuff. I'm still having it difficult to believe, even given her past actions, that she would respond as she did (and you should really see all of it) and still be a functioning human being to even get a job. It feels like there's something more. Or maybe she had just started Game of Thrones and they've just killed off Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephemiel.5694 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > > > > You're acting like she's an innocent princess. > > > > > > As long as she's doing her job, I don't give a kitten. What is this corporation supposed to be? Democracy in the ancient Athens, when people could vote to exile someone each year? > > > > Ah, so in your opinion, they could pretty much do mass genocide, but hey, they're doing their job so you won't care. Yet another person that blindly defends her and knows nothing about how companies or businesses work. If you really think they acted solely because of the community's backlash, then you need a bit of help. > > Yeah but they're not doing mass genocide, are they, so don't straw man this, please. Have you read what you've been typing to even say that to me? You and a few others have been on this hilarious crusade to find any way to say that firing someone like her was a horrible idea, even bringing law into this [when law wouldn't defend her either if she signed a contract]. How can any of you stomach it? To defend a woman that misguided and blind? Someone that was HAPPY that a man died of cancer. Someone who reacted so negatively TO ANET PARTNERS. Someone who flatout said that she didn't need to pretend to like us anymore [and yet went running to Kotaku saying that she likes at least 9/10th of the community she's seen]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > @"DiabolicalHamSandwich.8756" said: > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > > > Don't worry, the UK is working on that. lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Great so now you agree with me? > > > > > It's not a good idea for law to be punishing people based upon feelings. Because the law should be objective, not subjective. However in this case, we can look at objective and see clearly what was wrong. > > > > > > > > But that's precisely the point. Was what they did illegal? If not why are they getting fired for it? Because it hurt someone's feelings which is why they made a reddit thread about it and other people went there and agreed with it. You have to self-censor yourself if you want to keep your job, then? > > > > > > Illegal? I understand who you are replying to, and what they said, but the situation still had nothing to do with actual law. They were employees acting like kitten. More so Price since from what I saw of the other guy, crap was tame. I don't know if you know how businesses work, but normally you don't want employees attacking your fans/customers unprovoked. Also censor yourself? no. Just don't act like an kitten for no reason in this case. Unless the person is naturally an kitten, then yes, self-censor. > > > > Yeah but they weren't acting as employees. Remember those were their personal accounts. My point isn't that she wasn't acting noxious, my point is that it should have no bearing on her employment. And also if someone didn't put it on reddit, most people wouldn't be offended by it because they wouldn't have known about it. Because what is said between individuals should sometimes just stay between individuals. > They had the Anet tags on their accounts, and would even talk about the company and the game development on there. Well I had what companies I worked at on my facebook account too and what schools I studied at. And obviously it doesn't mean I speak for them. And if I work as a professional I would talk about what I do, too. Of course they got associated with the company once people got offended and took to reddit and of course Mo had to act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrin.1035 Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"yohoia.1850" said: > Agree with this. Unfair to let Peter go. > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. When it came down to the decision, Peter didn't choose you. He didn't choose his team or the company he spent years at. He chose Jessica. One who was carelessly insulting the playerbase and anyone that didn't agree with her. Mo on the other hand, chose us and the GW 2 Dev team - the ones who were let down by these two who betrayed them and the playerbase. The moment those two went rogue, they insulted not just us, but their friends and fellow co-workers at Anet. Mo made the decision that was best for everyone involved, including the company and the game's well-being. As well as for Peter and Jessica who hopefully learn something from this, such as the importance of your choices and actions. That can be a benefit for them in anything else they do. Don't blame Mo, the playerbase, or the two streamers. The only ones responsible for this situation were JP and PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > > > > > > You're acting like she's an innocent princess. > > > > > > > > As long as she's doing her job, I don't give a kitten. What is this corporation supposed to be? Democracy in the ancient Athens, when people could vote to exile someone each year? > > > > > > Ah, so in your opinion, they could pretty much do mass genocide, but hey, they're doing their job so you won't care. Yet another person that blindly defends her and knows nothing about how companies or businesses work. If you really think they acted solely because of the community's backlash, then you need a bit of help. > > > > Yeah but they're not doing mass genocide, are they, so don't straw man this, please. > It's an illustration, not a strawman. And no illustration is perfect. Obviously it ends where the law starts. And yes it's a straw man, because genocide is bad therefore my argument was invalid. If the person didn't WANT to go ridiculously too far they wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xolas.9781 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Runaway.7236" said: > I am disappointed and angry in the way Arena-net have handled this. You cannot ignore the wider context here and act like the systemic harassment and belittlement of female developers has never happened and is not ongoing still. You cannot ignore the death by a thousand cuts they have to endure just to get through the day and you cannot look at one of those cuts in isolation and say "It wasn't that bad, get over it" while ignoring the other 999. I cannot respect or support a company that does not have their employees backs when they are under pressure. > > By this action you have said that any of your staff who are abused or denigrated or harassed just have to put up with it. By this action you have told your community that you will capitulate to the most toxic elements among us and by doing so you have indicated that this game is not a space where the rest of us can feel safe or respected. > > Guild Wars is a game about being heroes but these are the actions of cowards and collaborators. > > I expected better from you. The other 999 cuts? Please show me the "other" 999 times that Deroir "cut" Jessica Price? Or even the first time he attacked her. What did Deroir do to deserve the sexist backlash from Jessica Price? Heck, if you actually do some digging, in one of Derior's videos within just a few days prior he complimented Jessica Price for a number of things. Do you mean a thousand cuts from men in general? If so, are you trying to say that the vulgarity and sexism from Jessica to Deroir is justified because of the acts of 999 other men? If this is what you're trying to say, then you should realize that treating one man (who was respectful) differently/poorly because of the acts of other men is literal sexism. Defending Jessica's attacks against Deroir is literally defending sexism. You are literally defending sexism. Think about that. Jessica wasn't fired for being a woman. She wasn't fired based on her work quality or lack of. She wasn't fired because of a knee jerk reaction from reddit. Jessica was fired because she was sexist, vulgar, and rude against company partners (who were in turn being completely respectful to her) and against the very community she's supposed to be working for. The backlash she received is because she's shown through her tweets that she's a piece of human garbage that doesn't respect life ( read her tweet about Total Biscuit), and blames all her problems on men and imagined sexism (literally her entire twitter feed). Anet doesn't support sexism. If you are unhappy with Anet not supporting a sexist bigot, then please feel free to remove yourself from the community or rethink your terrible viewpoints and biases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoi Ikazuchi.8420 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 @"Loli Ruri.8307": In reference to your last exchange with @"Komodo.7058", here's an article on the relevant logical fallacy: [argumentum ad passiones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said: > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said: > > > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore. > > > > > > > > > > You're acting like she's an innocent princess. > > > > > > > > As long as she's doing her job, I don't give a kitten. What is this corporation supposed to be? Democracy in the ancient Athens, when people could vote to exile someone each year? > > > > > > Ah, so in your opinion, they could pretty much do mass genocide, but hey, they're doing their job so you won't care. Yet another person that blindly defends her and knows nothing about how companies or businesses work. If you really think they acted solely because of the community's backlash, then you need a bit of help. > > > > Yeah but they're not doing mass genocide, are they, so don't straw man this, please. > > Have you read what you've been typing to even say that to me? You and a few others have been on this hilarious crusade to find any way to say that firing someone like her was a horrible idea, even bringing law into this [when law wouldn't defend her either if she signed a contract]. How can any of you stomach it? To defend a woman that misguided and blind? Someone that was HAPPY that a man died of cancer. Someone who reacted so negatively TO ANET PARTNERS. Someone who flatout said that she didn't need to pretend to like us anymore [and yet went running to Kotaku saying that she likes at least 9/10th of the community she's seen]. Because I don't question what my plumber does in his free time when he's working on my kitchen pipes. That's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskasnowgirl.6047 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > @"Loukious.7346" said: > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > > Imagine a store clerk in a time before internet where they yell to a customer: "I am happy your son died from cancer". > > > > > > > > What would happen? Would the manager go and say "I respect your view. One of that boys friend said mean things, and her son did not do enough to control his friends". > > > > > > Yeah now imagine an off clock store clerk doing that in front of their own house. Which is closer to what happened than what you pointed out. > > > > Very VERY poor analogy. If it was a private twitter (like locked down, only people she allowed to see would see) then I would agree with the own house idea. BUT it was a public twitter, with her employers name on it. It's more akin to the crazy Burger King woman (the one that destroyed property and assaulted the pro-life individuals, in I think Cleveland). > > That's why I said in front of the house. It's like it gathered a crowd over time and someone of the crowd then posted it all over town until the manager had to fire them. Also please don't politicize it with putting in unnecessary data like "pro-life individuals" if just "individuals" would suffice if you're making a point. Honestly I wouldn't have known what they were talking about if they hadn't added that detail. Even now I'm still a little confused, but a little less so - was she the one with red hair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 > @"Cyrin.1035" said: > > @"yohoia.1850" said: > > Agree with this. Unfair to let Peter go. > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > When it came down to the decision, Peter didn't choose you. He didn't choose his team or the company he spent years at. He chose Jessica. One who was carelessly insulting the playerbase and anyone that didn't agree with her. > > Mo on the other hand, chose us and the GW 2 Dev team - the ones who were let down by these two who betrayed them and the playerbase. The moment those two went rogue, they insulted not just us, but their friends and fellow co-workers at Anet. > > Mo made the decision that was best for everyone involved, including the company and the game's well-being. As well as for Peter and Jessica who hopefully learn something from this, such as the importance of your choices and actions. That can be a benefit for them in anything else they do. > > Don't blame Mo, the playerbase, or the two streamers. The only ones responsible for this situation were JP and PF. Yeah but Mo didn't choose us, he chose Anet, because he's a CEO of Anet and it's his job. And Anet was getting flamed for this, because it went popular on reddit. It's a PR incident and Mo handled it like a professional. It has nothing to do with anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loukious.7346 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said: > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > @"Loukious.7346" said: > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > > > > @"inubasiri.8745" said: > > > > > > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in. > > > > > > > > > > Imagine a store clerk in a time before internet where they yell to a customer: "I am happy your son died from cancer". > > > > > > > > > > What would happen? Would the manager go and say "I respect your view. One of that boys friend said mean things, and her son did not do enough to control his friends". > > > > > > > > Yeah now imagine an off clock store clerk doing that in front of their own house. Which is closer to what happened than what you pointed out. > > > > > > Very VERY poor analogy. If it was a private twitter (like locked down, only people she allowed to see would see) then I would agree with the own house idea. BUT it was a public twitter, with her employers name on it. It's more akin to the crazy Burger King woman (the one that destroyed property and assaulted the pro-life individuals, in I think Cleveland). > > > > That's why I said in front of the house. It's like it gathered a crowd over time and someone of the crowd then posted it all over town until the manager had to fire them. Also please don't politicize it with putting in unnecessary data like "pro-life individuals" if just "individuals" would suffice if you're making a point. > > Honestly I wouldn't have known what they were talking about if they hadn't added that detail. Even now I'm still a little confused, but a little less so - was she the one with red hair? No it was the dark haired woman in the Burger King shirt with the snaggle tooth. Here's the link for the video if you want to see. Red Hair is called Big Red. That woman is deranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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